How is it different from abortion? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : How is it different from abortion?


Kozel
10-16-2012, 09:06
How is it different from abortion?

Totally non-religious question.

You call up your child. Tell him/her that mommy and you made some mistakes in life then you pull out your gun and blow your child’s brains out.

Now. How is it different from abortion? Location of the child? You did not see his/her face yet? You did not have to pull the trigger you hired killer in white robe to do it for you?

P99er
10-16-2012, 09:08
What about the husband who murders his wife and unborn child? He is charged with two murders.

Murder of the unborn is reserved to mothers and doctors.

tantrix
10-16-2012, 09:11
In before the pro-life fanatics start pissing all over the thread.

devildog2067
10-16-2012, 09:13
How is it different from abortion?

Totally non-religious question.

You call up your child. Tell him/her that mommy and you made some mistakes in life then you pull out your gun and blow your child’s brains out.

Now. How is it different from abortion? Location of the child? You did not see his/her face yet? You did not have to pull the trigger you hired killer in white robe to do it for you?

Despite the fact that I don't think this is going to go well, I'll play.

It's different from abortion, because murdering a child is killing a person. Abortion of a pregnancy is not.

After conception, a fertilized embryo is not yet a person. It cannot survive outside the womb. It's biologically a parasite on the mother (I'm sure someone will come along shortly and correct my incorrect use of a biological term, but I think you know what I mean).

At some point (and this is typically well before the actual birth) the fetus becomes a child, an organism that could survive outside the womb.

hpracing007
10-16-2012, 09:13
You have to define what/who a child is. Some people believe a child isn't a child until he or she is born. Some don't. That's where the debate is.

If you can call up someone and tell them, it's murder, both pro-life and pro-choice would agree.

If they are still in the womb, pro-life think it's murder, pro-choice think it's not. If you're trolling, you'll get a ton of replies supporting both sides. Why don't you research and make up your own mind?

HollowHead
10-16-2012, 09:14
As long as we're speaking metaphorically, how about those who consider capital punishment murder? While I don't agree, it's an arguable point. HH

Kozel
10-16-2012, 09:15
In before the pro-life fanatics start pissing all over the thread.

Pro-life vs what?

Pro-choice people do not finish the sentence. Choice to murder.

devildog2067
10-16-2012, 09:16
Pro-life vs what?

Pro-choice people do not finish the sentence. Choice to murder.

This is the fundamental difference (and you well knew it before starting this thread). Most of us do not believe that aborting a pregnancy is murder.

Bilbo Bagins
10-16-2012, 09:16
How is it different from abortion?

Totally non-religious question.

You call up your child. Tell him/her that mommy and you made some mistakes in life then you pull out your gun and blow your child’s brains out.

Now. How is it different from abortion? Location of the child? You did not see his/her face yet? You did not have to pull the trigger you hired killer in white robe to do it for you?

I had a mega long post on a thread that got closed on gun laws and abortions, and it closed before I hit submit. I hope I can get it in here.

Even though he is a nut, I have a similar view to Ron Paul.

I have no problem with "First Trimester" abortions. I'm ok with Birth Control and the "Morning After pill"

It's when you get to 2nd and 3rd trimesters I have a problem with it because its not a bunch of cells you are messing with, it a viable infant.

Not to get all dramatic like Kozel, but if I punch a pregnant woman in the stomach, and she loses a child isn't it murder? Why is it murder if a mom or a nurse with mom's permission goes into a NICU and kills a 23 week old premature infant in a incubator, while a doctor can legally perform an abortion on a woman who is carrying a 23 week old infant in her womb?

Kozel
10-16-2012, 09:18
As long as we're speaking metaphorically, how about those who consider capital punishment murder? While I don't agree, it's an arguable point. HH

You compare people that were fully functional and capable to kill another human being to somebody absolutely innocent and not taken one breath of air yet?

You are one sick………

JW1178
10-16-2012, 09:18
Or how about since you don't want to take responsibilities and always take the easy way out, you take that gun and put it to your own head and pull the trigger.

Honestly, abortion to me is wrong. If my girl got pregnant, we would let nature take it's course and I would be there. However, then again, that's me and if someone else wants to kill their unborn child, well that is on them to deal with when they meet the higher power.

HollowHead
10-16-2012, 09:19
Pro-life vs what?

Pro-choice people do not finish the sentence. Choice to murder.

An opinion worthy of respect, but still an opinion. HH

dbcooper
10-16-2012, 09:26
Brain activity.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 09:28
Brain activity.

The Horror of A Live Abortion Procedure 2of3 (See 180Movie com) - YouTube

tantrix
10-16-2012, 09:30
You compare people that were fully functional and capable to kill another human being to somebody absolutely innocent and not taken one breath of air yet?

You are one sick………



Ok...here we go. With this story I'll consider you a murderer if you agree with this woman being forced to have the baby:


One particular woman had a baby diagnosed with a medical condition in the womb, and the end result would be that her baby would slowly suffocate to death over a period of 3 days after it was born.

She was forced to have a child that the doctor's told her was to suffer a horrible fate within 72 hours after birth. If I remember right, the baby died within 48 hours.






So...how many pro-lifers would stand there and watch this baby suffocate due to the laws THEY helped pass?

Yeah, I thought so.

The Maggy
10-16-2012, 09:32
In before the pro-life fanatics start pissing all over the thread.

How can you get in before the OP?

tantrix
10-16-2012, 09:34
How can you get in before the OP?

:rofl: :rofl:

You're the first one that caught it...this thread is baited so damn hard the OP could possibly get a citation, but I'll play anyway. :cool:

SC Tiger
10-16-2012, 09:38
At some point (and this is typically well before the actual birth) the fetus becomes a child, an organism that could survive outside the womb.

The only true answer to the abortion debate hinges on when this point is.

Personally I'm not getting into this again. I lean pro-life. The end.

Dennis in MA
10-16-2012, 09:39
I would'nt have pegged Kozel to be pro-life.

Geko45
10-16-2012, 09:39
Now. How is it different from abortion? Location of the child? You did not see his/her face yet? You did not have to pull the trigger you hired killer in white robe to do it for you?

At some point in early development, an embryo forms a nervous system and brain. The brain grants the capacity for human thought. Before that point, it is an embryo that may be aborted. After that point, it is a human life that must be protected. I look to medical science to define life, not religious texts. This happens fairly early in pregnancy as I understand it, but not so early as to not give a woman a window to make her choice.

The Maggy
10-16-2012, 09:41
Pro-life vs what?

Pro-choice people do not finish the sentence. Choice to murder.
Choice to murder? No.

Murder is defined by " the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought."

Agree or disagree with abortions, no one is forcing you to have one... but murder it is not.

ray9898
10-16-2012, 09:42
What has dragged all the abortion people out of the woodwork on here? The issue is decided for the vast majority of people, partisan politics is all that keeps the debate alive so they can take the spotlight off the real issues such as the economy.

frank4570
10-16-2012, 09:43
I'm in agreement with you.

I just can't believe there are people still working to outlaw abortion in this country, but it seems to be gaining some popularity.

I had a mega long post on a thread that got closed on gun laws and abortions, and it closed before I hit submit. I hope I can get it in here.

Even though he is a nut, I have a similar view to Ron Paul.

I have no problem with "First Trimester" abortions. I'm ok with Birth Control and the "Morning After pill"

It's when you get to 2nd and 3rd trimesters I have a problem with it because its not a bunch of cells you are messing with, it a viable infant.

Not to get all dramatic like Kozel, but if I punch a pregnant woman in the stomach, and she loses a child isn't it murder? Why is it murder if a mom or a nurse with mom's permission goes into a NICU and kills a 23 week old premature infant in a incubator, while a doctor can legally perform an abortion on a woman who is carrying a 23 week old infant in her womb?

Kozel
10-16-2012, 09:43
Ok...here we go. With this story I'll consider you a murderer if you agree with this woman being forced to have the baby:


One particular woman had a baby diagnosed with a medical condition in the womb, and the end result would be that her baby would slowly suffocate to death over a period of 3 days after it was born.

She was forced to have a child that the doctor's told her was to suffer a horrible fate within 72 hours after birth. If I remember right, the baby died within 48 hours.






So...how many pro-lifers would stand there and watch this baby suffocate due to the laws THEY helped pass?

Yeah, I thought so.


You are going to try to hide behind that ridiculous argument? Try hiding behind fig leaf. It will be much easier.

Majority of abortions are performed on perfectly healthy child carried by perfectly healthy mother.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 09:46
Choice to murder? No.

Murder is defined by " the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought."

.

So, if you get enough lawyers together to agree then you can do anything they agree on?



.

Bren
10-16-2012, 09:46
In before the pro-life fanatics start pissing all over the thread.

I thought the pro-life fanatics started the thread. Are there some "more fanatical" ones or something?

The Maggy
10-16-2012, 09:49
What about the husband who murders his wife and unborn child? He is charged with two murders.

Murder of the unborn is reserved to mothers and doctors.

It depends upon the state. Some states consider killing a pregnant woman to be two counts of murder, some states do not. Federally, the husband would only receive a case involving one count of murder

Dennis in MA
10-16-2012, 09:52
Ok...here we go. With this story I'll consider you a murderer if you agree with this woman being forced to have the baby:


One particular woman had a baby diagnosed with a medical condition in the womb, and the end result would be that her baby would slowly suffocate to death over a period of 3 days after it was born.

She was forced to have a child that the doctor's told her was to suffer a horrible fate within 72 hours after birth. If I remember right, the baby died within 48 hours.






So...how many pro-lifers would stand there and watch this baby suffocate due to the laws THEY helped pass?

Yeah, I thought so.

I'd like to know they mom was "forced."

My mother contracted Scarlet Fever when pregnant with my older sister. 1966 or so, I believe. Anyhow, they KNEW the baby wouldn't live. Margaret lasted 2 days.

Sadly, back then, the mom stayed in the hospital a week, they didn't discuss it and dad just took care of a quick burial. It wasn't until about a decade ago that we got a headstone and actually grieved as a family.

My mom wasn't forced. She held out every hope, still lost, and would do it again in a heartbeat. My middle name is Jude because she is VERY catholic and went thru my sister plus 4 miscarriages between my older brother and me.

I know what you are saying, but boy would I love to know the mom was "forced." I just don't see that in moms. Moms hope for the best.

Chuck TX
10-16-2012, 09:53
Big gub is awesome so long as it's something I, even though it's none of my frakking business, want to force upon you. Kinda like dictating what kind of tools you may possess. :whistling:

In before the pro-life fanatics start pissing all over the thread.

Fairly certain it started that way.

G36's Rule
10-16-2012, 09:54
So, if you get enough lawyers together to agree then you can do anything they agree on?



.

Well, yeah. I assumed you had already understood that.

:whistling:

The Maggy
10-16-2012, 09:55
So, if you get enough lawyers together to agree then you can do anything they agree on?



.
If you can get enough politicians to agree, you can do anything they agree on.

If you get enough supreme court justices to agree... (Roe v. Wade)

G36's Rule
10-16-2012, 09:55
Big gub is awesome so long as it's something I, even though it's none of my frakking business, want to force upon you. Kinda like dictating what kind of tools you may possess. :whistling:



I'm pretty sure one of governments prime directives is the protection of life...

Unless of course, the life is that of an unborn child.

devildog2067
10-16-2012, 09:56
You compare people that were fully functional and capable to kill another human being to somebody absolutely innocent and not taken one breath of air yet?

You are one sick………

Given the level of venom you are spouting, why did you bother to open this thread?

Gallium
10-16-2012, 09:58
Despite the fact that I don't think this is going to go well, I'll play.

It's different from abortion, because murdering a child is killing a person. Abortion of a pregnancy is not.

After conception, a fertilized embryo is not yet a person. It cannot survive outside the womb. It's biologically a parasite on the mother (I'm sure someone will come along shortly and correct my incorrect use of a biological term, but I think you know what I mean).

At some point (and this is typically well before the actual birth) the fetus becomes a child, an organism that could survive outside the womb.


Beat me to the punch, except to add, beyond the 2nd trimester the fetus is "easily" viable outside of the womb.

MtBaldy
10-16-2012, 09:59
How is it different from abortion?

Totally non-religious question.


Even you don't really believe that.


To the life begins at conception people, like me, it is no different.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 10:01
Given the level of venom you are spouting, why did you bother to open this thread?

You do not like my threads so much you call them “venom”? If they are that deadly to you then I am glad to open them.

devildog2067
10-16-2012, 10:05
You do not like my threads so much you call them “venom”? If they are that deadly to you then I am glad to open them.

I know English isn't your first language, but still, surely you're familiar with the idea of "metaphor"?

No matter how much craziness you spout on the internet, I assure you it doesn't affect me.

I was simply curious why, since you clearly feel so strongly about this issue and since you've done nothing but shriek at those who attempt to honestly answer the question you asked, you bothered to start this thread in the first place. Clearly you're not seeking any information. I suppose you just like being shrill.

If that's what floats your boat, go for it I guess.

arclight610
10-16-2012, 10:10
I am personally against abortion. However, the bigger issue to me is the double standard. If abortion is going to be legal, there has to be a definitive point where the fetus becomes a baby. Prior to that, it's not a person.

kensb2
10-16-2012, 10:11
Out of curiosity, how many here have even been in a situation where the pregnant woman/girl was pregnant with YOUR child, and had to make the decision that would impact the life of the 3 people (beings?) involved? Also, does anyone here personally know anyone (or was in the situation themselves) that faced any of the other 3 hot button parts of this debate: pregnancy due to rape, incest, or faced death of the mother?

Kozel
10-16-2012, 10:11
INo matter how much craziness you spout on the internet, I assure you it doesn't affect me.
.

And I should care about that why exactly? I am not trying to affect brains of brain dead. I just asked why people with living brains must die for mistakes of others.


.

dango
10-16-2012, 10:12
Well , there goes my fetus collection..........!:supergrin:

KalashniKEV
10-16-2012, 10:16
Now. How is it different from abortion? Location of the child?

A child is a living, breathing person and a gastrula/blastula/clumpy and yes, even a fetus, is a collection of cells.

Don't go trying to assign a public personality to a rapidly dividing clump of cells and you will quickly understand "how it is different."

BEER
10-16-2012, 10:21
you're not one of those pro-life nutjobs that's so rabidly against the "murder" of the unborn you'd justify the murder of doctors or bombing an abortion clinic are you?

Kozel
10-16-2012, 10:22
A child is a living, breathing person and a gastrula/blastula/clumpy and yes, even a fetus, is a collection of cells.



Watch the video and then post it again.

The Horror of A Live Abortion Procedure 2of3 (See 180Movie com) - YouTube.

It may look kinda old but I am sure children develop different now then few years ago.

whauburger
10-16-2012, 10:24
Does anyone know every situation or every circumstance? What is the best possible outcome for every situation? Is abortion the best answer for every circumstance it is used? Obviously it isn't, but sometimes i'm sure it is and who are you to judge their situation?

Is it wrong in your eyes because every person that has the opportunity to live should be given that chance?

Should blowjobs be illegal? Jerking off? Only have sex to procreate?

Kozel
10-16-2012, 10:29
you're not one of those pro-life nutjobs that's so rabidly against the "murder" of the unborn you'd justify the murder of doctors or bombing an abortion clinic are you?

Are you an FBI provocateur fishing to justify your existence?

No I am not for bombing “clinics” and killing “doctors”.

Morality never works at the barrel of the gun.

Abortion must be legal. It is a must! It should be as easily obtainable as class III firearms permit in New York City and murdering mother must watch whole ultrasound procedure on the very large screen at front of her.



.

The Maggy
10-16-2012, 10:33
Does anyone know every situation or every circumstance? What is the best possible outcome for every situation? Is abortion the best answer for every circumstance it is used? Obviously it isn't, but sometimes i'm sure it is and who are you to judge their situation?

Is it wrong in your eyes because every person that has the opportunity to live should be given that chance?

Should blowjobs be illegal? Jerking off? Only have sex to procreate?
"Life begins at erection"

Laugh but that is where the anti-choice crowd is heading. A no ************ bill was introduced to Oklahoma as a protest to an anti abortion bill. Sadly, parts of the state supported the amendment.

whauburger
10-16-2012, 10:34
Are you an FBI provocateur fishing to justify your existence?

No I am not for bombing “clinics” and killing “doctors”.

Morality never works at the barrel of the gun.

Abortion must be legal. It is a must! It should be as easily obtained as class III firearms permit in New York City and murdering mother must watch whole procedure on the very large screen at front of her.

Is it possible that there is a situation where the "child's" if born life will be drastically plagued with health problems which will make it 99.9% improbable they would survive to the age of a year, and having the "baby" will 99.9% end the mothers life?

What if they could end the pregnancy after 5 weeks, the "child" will never have to suffer, and the mother will survive.

What if these circumstances were your wife and potential child?

airmotive
10-16-2012, 10:34
You compare people that were fully functional and capable to kill another human being to somebody absolutely innocent………

Hey...it worked for Jesus. Where would the far right be without a little blood spilled.

Does anyone know every situation or every circumstance? What is the best possible outcome for every situation? Is abortion the best answer for every circumstance it is used? Obviously it isn't, but sometimes i'm sure it is and who are you to judge their situation?

Is it wrong in your eyes because every person that has the opportunity to live should be given that chance?

Should blowjobs be illegal? Jerking off? Only have sex to procreate?

Sad that the most sensible post in this thread will be the one that gets it locked.

Oh well....anyone buy a new refridgerator lately?

tantrix
10-16-2012, 10:36
You are going to try to hide behind that ridiculous argument? Try hiding behind fig leaf. It will be much easier.

Majority of abortions are performed on perfectly healthy child carried by perfectly healthy mother.

So it's ok that this woman suffered by having to watch her baby die, because of the actions of others? Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling.

By your logic, guns should be banned because sometimes there's a mass shooting. I mean, there's more murders committed using firearms than lawful self-defense shootings, so why not?



I'd like to know they mom was "forced."

She was not allowed to abort the baby due to the laws where she lived. In other words, she was basically told "You're going to have this baby, then watch it suffer and die".

whauburger
10-16-2012, 10:37
"Life begins at erection"

Laugh but that is where the anti-choice crowd is heading. A no ************ bill was introduced to Oklahoma as a protest to an anti abortion bill. Sadly, parts of the state supported the amendment.


I haven't seen that one....I just like to play devils advocate sometimes and raise the drastic other end. Sometimes you have to consider the other option, even if you don't agree with it.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 10:40
Is it possible that there is a situation where the "child's" if born life will be drastically plagued with health problems which will make it 99.9% improbable they would survive to the age of a year, and having the "baby" will 99.9% end the mothers life?



Join that other guy trying to hide behind same fig leaf. It may get kind of crowded there.

Majority of abortions are performed on healthy children killed by healthy mothers.

whauburger
10-16-2012, 10:42
Join that other guy trying to hide behind same fig leaf. It may get kind of crowded there.

Majority of abortions are performed on healthy children killed by healthy mothers.

The majority might be, but does that give you a right to dictate the way someone else should be forced to live?



Edit: Again, there ARE legit circumstances. I am asking if the situation DID arise, and it was YOUR family would your view be the same?

YOUR daughter will 99.9% pass away if she gives birth to a baby which will 99.9% only live a few weeks.

Is it possible? Would you see it as a solution?

KalashniKEV
10-16-2012, 10:44
Watch the video and then post it again.


Watched it... didn't see any souls escaping... though I hope I won't be haunted by clumpy's ghost for posting that.

People's minds are pretty much made up on this issue.

If you don't like abortions, don't get one.
If you don't like motorcycles, don't ride one.
If you don't like guns, don't shoot one.
If you don't like tattoos, don't' get one.
etc...

MYOB.

If you must create threads like this to make yourself happy, don't be surprised when your efforts to curtail freedom and women's rights are met with aggression.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 10:45
The majority might be, but does that give you a right to dictate the way someone else should be forced to live?

How many people had to die to make you spokesman for “majority”?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/08/25/Poll-Majority-of-Americans-Still-Pro-Life

tantrix
10-16-2012, 10:46
The majority might be, but does that give you a right to dictate the way someone else should be forced to live?

Of course...for some reason, the bible thumpers think that what other people do with their unborn somehow affects them.

The Maggy
10-16-2012, 10:46
Are you an FBI provocateur fishing to justify your existence?

No I am not for bombing “clinics” and killing “doctors”.

Morality never works at the barrel of the gun.

Abortion must be legal. It is a must! It should be as easily obtainable as class III firearms permit in New York City and murdering mother must watch whole ultrasound procedure on the very large screen at front of her.



.

Nothing says shotgun morality quiet like larger government, a new tax, more regulation, and unnecessarily forcing someone to do something against their will.

What if the woman simply closes her eyes? Do you break out the scotch tape?

Kozel
10-16-2012, 10:48
Watched it... didn't see any souls escaping... .

People that do not have them cannot see them.

skorper
10-16-2012, 10:48
An opinion worthy of respect, but still an opinion. HH

I love a good argument (discussion) as well as the next guy, and abortion is always a great hotbutton topic. The death penalty example seems to be brought up every time. In my opinion the comparison is not worthy of respect at all. Whether you are for or against the death penalty has nothing to do with the abortion issue. In the abortion issue the proponents are basically arguing that the fetus is a child. The essence of innocence. In the death penalty issue you are debating punishment. In the death penalty argument the question is of whether or not to kill an adult who has been deemed to be guilty of some greivous offense. One can be for the death penalty and against abortion with an absolute clear conscious, based on the complete and utter innocence of the supposed child. There is no relation at all and it is a ridiculous argument.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 10:51
Nothing says shotgun morality quiet like larger government, a new tax, more regulation, and unnecessarily forcing someone to do something against their will.



Reading is not your best ability? I said that abortion must be legal and morality cannot be forced on anybody at the barrel of any gun, shotgun included.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 10:54
Of course...for some reason, the bible thumpers think that what other people do with their unborn somehow affects them.

Another guy with very limited reading abilities.

I started topic with: "Totally non-religious question."




.

whauburger
10-16-2012, 10:58
I agree with Skorper, other topics should not be used to debate this topic.

Kozel, is there situations where it is the best option?

tantrix
10-16-2012, 10:59
Another guy with very limited reading abilities.

I started topic with: "Totally non-religious question."




.


Yet you share the same views. Guess I'll have to lump you in with them...just like you lump people with the need for legitimate abortions in with teen moms that are simply too lazy to take of a baby.

That broad brush of yours....

airmotive
10-16-2012, 11:02
People that do not have them cannot see them.

http://static.themetapicture.com/media/funny-I-see-dead-people-kid.jpg

TK-421
10-16-2012, 11:02
Pro-life vs what?

Pro-choice people do not finish the sentence. Choice to murder.

Pro-choice to have control over their own bodies and their own lives.

There, I finished the sentence for you.

To everybody who is "pro-life", lay off. It's not your body, it's not your life, it does not affect you in an way, shape, or form. Let people make their own decisions.

It would be like the government telling you you're only allowed to own a white car, or you're only allowed to own a one story house. Do you want the government telling you what color car or how many stories your house can have? No. Do you want to be able to make those decisions for yourself? Yes. So don't make the government try to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. Their body belongs to themselves, as does the right to decide what to do with their body. Just like your house and your car belong to you, as does the right to do with them what you will.

tantrix
10-16-2012, 11:12
Do you want the government telling you what color car or how many stories your house can have? No.

Actually, don't ask that question...there are plenty over in the HOA thread that are just fine with being told what to do. :rofl:

BEER
10-16-2012, 11:13
let's say a man and woman both decide they're not ready to have a kid so they both use birth control, she's on the pill and he wears a condom. even though they each took precautions and tried to be careful she still winds up pregnant. neither of them can afford all the associated health care cost of a pregnancy and neither are at a point in their life where they can raise a healthy child for the next 18 years.

to stop them from having an abortion Kozel would you personally be willing to pay their medical bills and then adopt their child and raise it as your own?

Kozel
10-16-2012, 11:13
Yet you share the same views. Guess I'll have to lump you in with them...just like you lump people with the need for legitimate abortions in with teen moms that are simply too lazy to take of a baby.

That broad brush of yours....

Some people are totally incapable of simple logic. If logical question is same as the one religious people ask does it make it illogical? Even if you think religious people are crazy have you ever heard of “broken clock is right twice a day?”

Again. Religious issues excluded…. Why one innocent person must pay with his/her life for mistakes of another?

If promiscuous woman f---s around just for a fun of it why somebody else has to die for that? Would it not be logical to save that innocent life at the price of few months of inconvenience to the slut and gave that person life with adopting family that will love him/her and develop him/her into perfectly functional, productive member of society?

There are thousands of people begging to adopt in newspapers and on craigslist. I am not one of them but I would adopt and dedicate my life to a child that somebody does not want.



.

The Maggy
10-16-2012, 11:15
Reading is not your best ability? I said that abortion must be legal and morality cannot be forced on anybody at the barrel of any gun, shotgun included.



Yes, you said all of that. What stipulations did you want to place upon it again? Something about more bureaucracy, a tax, and then forcing a woman to watch on a really big screen?

Has this thread devolved so quickly that we are down to selectively ignoring parts of our own posts so we can make personal attacks?

sharpshooter
10-16-2012, 11:16
Capital punishment is not murder. It is society acting in self defense against someone who's behavior is so terrible that society believes that they cannot protect themselves from the person. The last resort is to end their life so that he cannot hurt anyone else. It's a very real form of self defense.

hpracing007
10-16-2012, 11:18
You assume we all think a "person" is the same thing. If you can't accept that there are other definitions other than your own, well... you're wasting your time. Just think that you're right, we all support murders, and go on with your life, no need to think about it.

airmotive
10-16-2012, 11:19
Has this thread devolved so quickly that we are down to selectively ignoring parts of our own posts so we can make personal attacks?

Oh! Oh!
Let me answer that one!
I know it! I know it!
Pick me! Pick me!!

tantrix
10-16-2012, 11:19
let's say a man and woman both decide they're not ready to have a kid so they both use birth control, she's on the pill and he wears a condom. even though they each took precautions and tried to be careful she still winds up pregnant. neither of them can afford all the associated health care cost of a pregnancy and neither are at a point in their life where they can raise a healthy child for the next 18 years.

to stop them from having an abortion Kozel would you personally be willing to pay their medical bills and then adopt their child and raise it as your own?

No, not all on his own. Apparently he wants us (taxpayers) to help him do it.



If promiscuous woman f---s around just for a fun of it why somebody else has to die for that?

A better question would be, how is this promiscuous woman's behavior the fault or responsibility of you or I?


Would it not be logical to save that innocent life at the price of few months of inconvenience to the slut and gave that person life with adopting family that will love him/her and develop him/her into perfectly functional, productive member of society?

Sure, it's logical but it's just not feasible. As BEER hinted on, how many foster kids do you take care of? How many kids have you adopted because their mother didn't want them?

My guess is zero. You want the cake, and you want to eat it too.

Give people the choice to make their own decisions and no blame can be placed on you. Give people no choice and you're just hurting those on the opposite side of the fence as you.

TK-421
10-16-2012, 11:19
Actually, don't ask that question...there are plenty over in the HOA thread that are just fine with being told what to do. :rofl:

Yeah, but that's because they chose to, that was their choice to join the HOA. This is different, this wouldn't be a choice, this would be the government forcing you to live in a one story house, whether you wanted to or not.

tantrix
10-16-2012, 11:22
Yeah, but that's because they chose to, that was their choice to join the HOA. This is different, this wouldn't be a choice, this would be the government forcing you to live in a one story house, whether you wanted to or not.

You're absolutely right...but some people can't get past their emotions to see it that way. They see themselves as being 'heroes' of some sort up on a pedestal because they're pro-life. It's really nothing more than self-gratification.

TK-421
10-16-2012, 11:22
let's say a man and woman both decide they're not ready to have a kid so they both use birth control, she's on the pill and he wears a condom. even though they each took precautions and tried to be careful she still winds up pregnant. neither of them can afford all the associated health care cost of a pregnancy and neither are at a point in their life where they can raise a healthy child for the next 18 years.

to stop them from having an abortion Kozel would you personally be willing to pay their medical bills and then adopt their child and raise it as your own?

What about the negative impact of carrying a baby to term? What about the cost of food, the cost of new clothes, the emotional toll it takes on them? What about all the morning sickness? What if their family disowned them for getting her pregnant? What if their friends left them because they're not fun anymore because they have to be careful because she's pregnant? What if her job fires her because they don't want to have to deal with her not coming in, or not being able to be on her feet all day? Or because she might have to go home early?

It's not as simple as saying "Okay, i'll carry a baby for 9 months, no problem." There is so much more that goes into it that people just ignore, mainly men, because they have no idea what it's like to be pregnant, and don't care enough to learn.

The Maggy
10-16-2012, 11:24
Oh! Oh!
Let me answer that one!
I know it! I know it!
Pick me! Pick me!!



Mr. Airmotive, you have your hand raised. Could you please answer the question?

G29Reload
10-16-2012, 11:25
It's different from abortion, because murdering a child is killing a person. Abortion of a pregnancy is not.

Fail.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 11:25
let's say a man and woman both decide they're not ready to have a kid so they both use birth control, she's on the pill and he wears a condom. even though they each took precautions and tried to be careful she still winds up pregnant. neither of them can afford all the associated health care cost of a pregnancy and neither are at a point in their life where they can raise a healthy child for the next 18 years.





They can give that child to me. Alive. Of any race and any gender.

Thousands of people are begging to adopt in every newspaper and on-line. If murderous slut that was not married before f---ng around wants to kill that child she must be able to do so. She must be able to do it as easily as obtaining class III firearms permit in New York City and she must watch whole procedure in ultrasound on very large TV at front of her.

TK-421
10-16-2012, 11:26
You're absolutely right...but some people can't get past their emotions to see it that way. They see themselves as being 'heroes' of some sort up on a pedestal because they're pro-life. It's really nothing more than self-gratification.

Yeah, that's something I can never understand. "Lets force these people to do what I want."

"Okay, now lets force you to do what I want."

"Oh no! You can't do that! That's unconstitutional! I have to be able to make my own decisions, and do whatever I want. You can't force your own decisions on me!"

:upeyes:

tantrix
10-16-2012, 11:27
What about the negative impact of carrying a baby to term? What about the cost of food, the cost of new clothes, the emotional toll it takes on them? What about all the morning sickness? What if their family disowned them for getting her pregnant? What if their friends left them because they're not fun anymore because they have to be careful because she's pregnant? What if her job fires her because they don't want to have to deal with her not coming in, or not being able to be on her feet all day? Or because she might have to go home early?

It's not as simple as saying "Okay, i'll carry a baby for 9 months, no problem." There is so much more that goes into it that people just ignore, mainly men, because they have no idea what it's like to be pregnant, and don't care enough to learn.

No doubt. Too many children are being born, and not enough people to take care of them. And let's not even talk about adoption, because the adoption procedure is so drawn out and lengthy that barely anyone can get a child...but yet, all the hardcore pro-lifer people can say is "Hot damn, let's bring yet another baby into the world!"

Only for it to end up being either a ward of the state or neglected...yeah, some heroes they are.



They can give that child to me. Alive. Of any race and any gender.

Thousands of people are begging to adopt in every newspaper and on-line. If murderous slut that was not married before f---ng around wants to kill that child she must be able to do so. She must be able to do it as easily as obtaining class III firearms permit in New York City and she must watch whole procedure in ultrasound on very large TV at front of her.

Oh really? So you'll take these kids in and care for them properly, on your own dime? What happens when you run out of room or money? Then what happens to the rest of the children?

Sorry, but unless you're a multi-billionaire...it's not happening. The rest of the thousands of children fall on the rest of us, the taxpayers.

KalashniKEV
10-16-2012, 11:28
People that do not have them cannot see them.

Awwwwwwwwwwwww... SCHNAPPS!!!

:rofl:

TK-421
10-16-2012, 11:30
No doubt. Too many children are being born, and not enough people to take care of them. And let's not even talk about adoption, because the adoption procedure is so drawn out and lengthy that barely anyone can get a child...but yet, all the hardcore pro-lifer people can say is "Hot damn, let's bring yet another baby into the world!"

Only for it to end up being either a ward of the state or neglected...yeah, some heroes they are.

You see, what most "Pro-Life" people don't tell you, is that they're not Pro-Life, they're Pro-Fetus. Oh don't you dare touch that fetus while it's still in the womb, that's murder. But once the baby is born, they don't give two ****s about it. They don't care if it has clothes, food, shelter, once it's born. All they care about is bringing that baby to term and giving birth to it. But don't you dare tax them more to pay for the baby during the 9 months of gestation, because they shouldn't have to pay for someone else's baby. Even though they're the ones who want it brought to term.

BEER
10-16-2012, 11:31
They can give that child to me. Alive. Of any race and any gender.

Thousands of people are begging to adopt in every newspaper and on-line. If murderous slut that was not married before f---ng around wants to kill that child she must be able to do so. She must be able to do it as easily as obtaining class III firearms permit in New York City and she must watch whole procedure in ultrasound on very large TV at front of her.

so how many children are you currently raising and how many of those children did you father?

Kozel
10-16-2012, 11:31
Awwwwwwwwwwwww... SCHNAPPS!!!

:rofl:

People that never had one do not know what it is like to have one.



.

The Maggy
10-16-2012, 11:33
They can give that child to me. Alive. Of any race and any gender.

Thousands of people are begging to adopt in every newspaper and on-line. If murderous slut that was not married before f---ng around wants to kill that child she must be able to do so. She must be able to do it as easily as obtaining class III firearms permit in New York City and she must watch whole procedure in ultrasound on very large TV at front of her.

Wait, so are you advocating for the growth of government and the use of force to make someone do something against their will or not? The last time you posted that last sentence, you told me that I couldn't read.

tantrix
10-16-2012, 11:35
You see, what most "Pro-Life" people don't tell you, is that they're not Pro-Life, they're Pro-Fetus. Oh don't you dare touch that fetus while it's still in the womb, that's murder. But once the baby is born, they don't give two ****s about it. They don't care if it has clothes, food, shelter, once it's born. All they care about is bringing that baby to term and giving birth to it. But don't you dare tax them more to pay for the baby during the 9 months of gestation, because they shouldn't have to pay for someone else's baby. Even though they're the ones who want it brought to term.

Like I've said many times before, a lot of people vote Republican because they're hardcore pro-lifers. What they don't ever talk about is that the Republicans only care about you when you're a fetus...after you're born they don't give a damn.


so how many children are you currently raising and how many of those children did you father?

Oh, I'm sure he has a house full of children that aren't his. :whistling:

Kozel
10-16-2012, 11:37
so how many children are you currently raising and how many of those children did you father?

What is it to you? I have my own and if there is one that is being thrown into dumpster by his/her own mother I will take him/her in as my own.

Do you read newspapers? How about craigslist? Naaaa… to busy watching sports are you? Thousands of people are begging to adopt.

whauburger
10-16-2012, 11:38
Kozel, I am curious if you feel every married couple should have children?

TK-421
10-16-2012, 11:38
Like I've said many times before, a lot of people vote Republican because they're hardcore pro-lifers. What they don't ever talk about is that the Republicans only care about you when you're a fetus...after you're born they don't give a damn.


Thankfully there's at least two semi-intelligent people on this forum. :wavey:

I'm very middle of the road. Don't touch my guns, don't try to take my guns away from me, and don't touch my woman, and don't try to tell my woman what she can or cannot do. That's my job. :rofl:

Kozel
10-16-2012, 11:40
Wait, so are you advocating for the growth of government and the use of force to make someone do something against their will or not? The last time you posted that last sentence, you told me that I couldn't read.

Why so many people cannot read but manage to type anyway?

TK-421
10-16-2012, 11:42
Why so many people cannot read but manage to type anyway?

Why so many people who cannot think but manage to vote anyways? :rofl:

airmotive
10-16-2012, 11:43
Mr. Airmotive, you have your hand raised. Could you please answer the question?

http://i.imgur.com/pVpU0.jpg

Wait...what was the question?

tantrix
10-16-2012, 11:44
Do you read newspapers? How about craigslist? Naaaa… to busy watching sports are you? Thousands of people are begging to adopt.

And many get turned down. Matter of fact, most do. Seems to me like you'd be better off campaigning for them to loosen the restrictions/requirements for adoptive parents.



Thankfully there's at least two semi-intelligent people on this forum. :wavey:

I'm very middle of the road. Don't touch my guns, don't try to take my guns away from me, and don't touch my woman, and don't try to tell my woman what she can or cannot do. That's my job. :rofl:


Yep...I just want to be left alone and not told when and where I can fart. I don't really care what anyone else does. If a woman wants to abort, she should be free to make that decision. Rather I agree with her reason or not is none of my concern.


ETA- Btw, how does someone with your political views manage to survive in AUSTIN??? If you ever decide to leave, we'll take you over here, and feed you good! :rofl:

HarlDane
10-16-2012, 11:45
Out of curiosity, how many here have even been in a situation where the pregnant woman/girl was pregnant with YOUR child, and had to make the decision that would impact the life of the 3 people (beings?) involved? Also, does anyone here personally know anyone (or was in the situation themselves) that faced any of the other 3 hot button parts of this debate: pregnancy due to rape, incest, or faced death of the mother?Not me, but couple I was close with, who are very religious and pro-life had the decision to abort or lose the fetus and likely do enough damage that getting pregnant again wouldn't be possible. I keep them in mind every time I see a new law get proposed to limit abortion, most of the time, their situation would not be covered because the mothers life wasn't in danger.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 11:48
Kozel, I am curious if you feel every married couple should have children?

Why should I answer stupid questions?

I asked a simple one, totally not related to any religion and….. look at all religion haters and brilliant people asking questions!

tantrix
10-16-2012, 11:49
Not me, but couple I was close with, who are very religious and pro-life had the decision to abort or lose the fetus and likely do enough damage that getting pregnant again wouldn't be possible. I keep them in mind every time I see a new law get proposed to limit abortion, most of the time, their situation would not be covered because the mothers life wasn't in danger.

That's because most pro-lifers aren't seeing the big picture. The only thing they think when they hear the word abortion is "baby murder". Not having the choice is a pretty scary thing for people having a troublesome pregnancy where the baby and/or mother's lives may be in danger. It's a bad situation to be put in, and should be taken on a case-by-case basis...not blanket anti-abortion laws.


Why should I answer stupid questions?

I asked a simple one, totally not related to any religion and….. look at all religion haters and brilliant people asking questions!


If you're referring to me, I'm not a religion hater by any means. I simply think that religion and politics should be seperate, and let's face it...religion is a HUGE factor in the abortion debate.

Bilbo Bagins
10-16-2012, 11:50
Pro-life vs what?

Pro-choice people do not finish the sentence. Choice to murder.

As long as we're speaking metaphorically, how about those who consider capital punishment murder? While I don't agree, it's an arguable point. HH

You compare people that were fully functional and capable to kill another human being to somebody absolutely innocent and not taken one breath of air yet?

You are one sick………

This is my problem with partisanship and religious zealots. No one can be logical. Its only Black or White.

Like the gun issue, there is a right to keep and bear arms, but you got to set some sort of limit. Should a 7 year old be able to walk into a gun store and buy a full auto mac-10? Most people would say no. Should a mentally unstable convicted sex offender be able to purchase a handgun the day he is released from jail? Most peope would say no.

Should a person who raped and murdered 8 women get the death penality? Most people would say yes. Should a teenager who just got their drivers license, and lost control of their car while driving the speed limit, and plowwed into a crowd of 8 people killing all of them get the death penality too?

Now to Abortion. Kozel what do you think about a woman who was brutally gang raped, and is pregnant. Should she be forced to keep that baby to term. What about a 14 year old girl who is pregnant because of an incestual sex with a relative. How about the innocent Anencephalic baby, when the doctors tell the expectant mother that the child she is carrying is severly deformed and if the child does not go stillborn, the baby will most likely stop breathing once born.

Do you still hold that "All or Nothing" doctrine?

BEER
10-16-2012, 11:50
What is it to you? I have my own and if there is one that is being thrown into dumpster by his/her own mother I will take him/her in as my own.

Do you read newspapers? How about craigslist? Naaaa… to busy watching sports are you? Thousands of people are begging to adopt.

what it is to me is your blatant lie. you claim you'd take 1 if it was being thrown away. well guess what, there are hundreds of thousands of unwanted babies being aborted and or thrown away after birth every day so you better get busy.

by the way, do you know why so many people are begging to adopt? because even though there are just as many unwanted children being concieved every day somebody decided that the government should regulate the adoption process. now it's a tangled beauracratic nightmare.

TK-421
10-16-2012, 11:51
ETA- Btw, how does someone with your political views manage to survive in AUSTIN??? If you ever decide to leave, we'll take you over here, and feed you good! :rofl:

I've learned to keep my mouth shut and ignore most people, because every time they open their mouth they just prove how stupid they are. :rofl:

Trust me, the only reason I'm here, is because of free room and board. That, and the guns. I used to live in Illinois, which has equally stupid people, but their gun laws are way worse. I'd rather live here, than Illinois. But I'd rather live somewhere else with similar, or better gun laws, and not so many stupid people. :supergrin:

Kozel
10-16-2012, 11:52
And many get turned down. Matter of fact, most do. Seems to me like you'd be better off campaigning for them to loosen the restrictions/requirements for adoptive parents.

:

Do you know any people that adopted? I do. They had to jump through more hoops then you can imagine and they had to spend A LOT of money. They do raise those children in very good families by the way.

Just because Governments make adoption process more complicated then Moon landing it does not mean that it has to be that way.







.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 11:56
Next…. You are going to post the adoption horror story from the news. One out of thousand. Oh, am sure that child would be much better off dead!

Oh by the way. I came from very dysfunctional family. Yeah… I know. You wish that I was dead already….

Kozel
10-16-2012, 11:58
what it is to me is your blatant lie.

Coming from liar? What a surpise!

The Maggy
10-16-2012, 12:00
Why so many people cannot read but manage to type anyway?

You do understand how much bureaucracy is in place to make class 3 weapons so hard to get, right? That's kind of the point of the ATF. The FBI has their hands in it, the irs works against the process. The list of state and federal agencies goes on and on. This is what you are advocating for. Bloating the government in the name of morality. The only way you can make an abortion harder to get is through government regulation. Is this not what you are advocating for?

How do you purpose to make a woman watch the ultrasound when you can 1) turn your head or 2) close your eyes?

Please tell me how your words are being misunderstood? (Oh and before you start getting all snippity about reading comprehension, perhaps you should brush up on some basic sentence structure. Might I suggest "Shirley English?" It seems to work great for children in grades one through three.)

tantrix
10-16-2012, 12:00
Do you know any people that adopted? I do. They had to jump through more hoops then you can imagine and they had to spend A LOT of money. They do raise those children in very good families by the way.

Just because Governments make adoption process more complicated then Moon landing it does not mean that it has to be that way.





.

Then you just proved what I said. The adoption process is lengthy and expensive, which most people cannot do. Now, as we speak there are children being born that will be placed up for adoption but will end up with nowhere to go, and raised by the state (taxpayers). Even foster homes can't keep up with them.

But that's actually an entirely different issue, because we're talking about abortion.


Look, don't get me wrong...I'm absolutely against a child being aborted for absolutely no reason. BUT, I'm not so blind that I think I have the right to make decisions for people when I am in NO way in their position. The point is, there are times when an abortion is warranted.




Like another poster touched on, if your wife was raped and ended up pregnant, do you agree she should be forced to carry the baby to term? Answer honestly.

series1811
10-16-2012, 12:01
What about the husband who murders his wife and unborn child? He is charged with two murders.



And, that's as good an example of any as to what the problem is. In order to achieve the social result the left wanted, it was necessary to redefine and re-label murder.

And, then they are surprised that so many people object because, you can paint an elephant pink, and call him a giraffe, but he is still an elephant.

I think the truth is, that we have a lot of socipaths in this society, and babies aren't the only people they would be killing if they thought they could get away with it.

skorper
10-16-2012, 12:01
I've learned to keep my mouth shut and ignore most people, because every time they open their mouth they just prove how stupid they are. :rofl:

Trust me, the only reason I'm here, is because of free room and board. That, and the guns. I used to live in Illinois, which has equally stupid people, but their gun laws are way worse. I'd rather live here, than Illinois. But I'd rather live somewhere else with similar, or better gun laws, and not so many stupid people. :supergrin:

You must be a really smart guy.

airmotive
10-16-2012, 12:06
How is it different from abortion?

Totally non-religious question.

You call up your child. Tell him/her that mommy and you made some mistakes in life then you pull out your gun and blow your child’s brains out.

Now. How is it different from abortion? Location of the child? You did not see his/her face yet? You did not have to pull the trigger you hired killer in white robe to do it for you?

http://maggiekeegangross.com/images/howtoshootyourkidspage.jpg
Maggie Keegan
~Gross Photographer

Notice how the corporate logo is at first glance, a circle of hearts. But at second glance, it's looking down the barrel of a gun. That's love right there.
Oh yeah...he's bored and he's on a roll.
:tequila:

Kozel
10-16-2012, 12:13
Then you just proved what I said. The adoption process is lengthy and expensive, which most people cannot do.

Is it easier to make Government bureaucrats unemployed of children killed.

Duh!

Kill children! It only takes few minutes!

JMS
10-16-2012, 12:13
Totally non-religious question.

You are one of the biggest bible thumpers on this entire website and your question is "non religious"??? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

You already have an agenda and only 1 answer you'd accept. What next women shouldn't vote? Government should decide on who lives and who dies? When you start taking away personal freedom it's a slippery slope. It's ok when you agree with the powers that be, it's not ok when you're on the other side.

Cmacc
10-16-2012, 12:15
I read half of this thread but couldn't stand any more of the middle school postings from either side of the debate.

If you got this far and would like a more thoughtful and reasoned opinion, this is a link to an opinion that takes a more intellectual track in the discussion. He appears to come at it from a Catholic position when it gets to the moral question but I think the points are well made.


http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/330269/biden-abortion-ctd-ramesh-ponnuru

JMS
10-16-2012, 12:22
Oh by the way. I came from very dysfunctional family.

Shocking :faint:

Some children come out of dysfunctional households dysfunctional as well, only they don't know it.........

tsmo1066
10-16-2012, 12:22
No doubt. Too many children are being born, and not enough people to take care of them. And let's not even talk about adoption, because the adoption procedure is so drawn out and lengthy that barely anyone can get a child...but yet, all the hardcore pro-lifer people can say is "Hot damn, let's bring yet another baby into the world!"

Only for it to end up being either a ward of the state or neglected...yeah, some heroes they are.



This is simply not true. In fact, the exact opposite is true.

Nationally, there are waiting lists that run from several months into the YEARS to adopt babies, even disabled ones. There are many, many more qualified, eager parents out there in the United States looking to adopt than there are available babies - by a long stretch. It is not uncommon for qualified parents in America who are seeking to adopt to have to wait as long as two years or more for an available baby, and that's after completing the mountains of paperwork, background checks and other red tape that are required in this country to adopt.

The whole reason why wealthy Americans and movie stars like Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie go overseas to Asia, Africa and Eastern Europe to adopt infants is to avoid the lengthy adoption waiting lists that exist here in America.

Bren
10-16-2012, 12:25
How is it different from abortion?

Totally non-religious question.

You call up your child. Tell him/her that mommy and you made some mistakes in life then you pull out your gun and blow your child’s brains out.

Now. How is it different from abortion? Location of the child? You did not see his/her face yet? You did not have to pull the trigger you hired killer in white robe to do it for you?

I know the answer: one is legal and one is not.

series1811
10-16-2012, 12:25
I know the answer: one is legal and one is not.

And, that truly is the only difference.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 12:26
Shocking :faint:

Some children come out of dysfunctional households dysfunctional as well, only they don't know it.........

Even more dysfunctional children come from “functional” families. They are so dysfunctional they look down at everybody who is not quite as “fortunate” as them.

whauburger
10-16-2012, 12:27
Why should I answer stupid questions?

I asked a simple one, totally not related to any religion and….. look at all religion haters and brilliant people asking questions!

I answered your question, you have a hard time answering mine. I am not bringing religion into this at all.

Why is it a stupid question? Because it makes you look simple minded? It is a great question because it shows a flaw to your argument. Couples should have the choice to have children. It is simple, not all couples want kids, can afford kids, can raise kids, what ever. They get a CHOICE.

JMS
10-16-2012, 12:29
The government can't limit the size of my magazines or the numbers of guns I can have, but they have the right to tell me what I can or cannot do with my body right? :faint:

I'm all for government control when it doesn't affect me.....

JMS
10-16-2012, 12:29
Even more dysfunctional children come from “functional” families. They are so dysfunctional they look down at everybody who is not quite as “fortunate” as them.

Quite the intellectual :whistling:

tantrix
10-16-2012, 12:29
I answered your question, you have a hard time answering mine.

He's yet to answer mine.


Here it is again Kozel:

Your wife is raped, and ends up pregnant. Do you agree she should be forced by law to carry the baby to term? Answer honestly.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 12:30
You are one of the biggest bible thumpers on this entire website and your question is "non religious"??? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

.

Keep on rolling on the floor if you cannot walk or think straight.
I may have asked one question on religious forum in a very long time and most religious people did not like it.

JMS
10-16-2012, 12:34
Keep on rolling on the floor if you cannot walk or think straight.
I may have asked one question on religious forum in a very long time and most religious people did not like it.

You refer to people as Sodomites and reference Sodom and Gomorrah, etc and you're not religious? At least be honest, if you can't do that, anything else you say is meaningless.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 12:37
He's yet to answer mine.


Here it is again Kozel:

Your wife is raped, and ends up pregnant. Do you agree she should be forced by law to carry the baby to term? Answer honestly.

Crazies always bring up tiny percentage of reasons for abortion to justify majority of them that are done by murderous sluts that simply f---k around with men they are not married with just for fun of it.
Rape or incest is responsible for about 1% of reasons for abortions.

tantrix
10-16-2012, 12:38
Crazies always bring up tiny percentage of reasons for abortion to justify majority of them that are done by murderous sluts that simply f---k around with men they are not married with just for fun of it.
Rape or incest is responsible for about 1% of reasons for abortions.

That's not an answer to the question.

TK-421
10-16-2012, 12:39
You must be a really smart guy.

By no stretch of the imagination am I "really smart", I just don't believe it's right to force my beliefs upon others, and I don't try to go meddling in other people's business. And I'm not afraid to tell someone they're a hypocritical moron.

BEER
10-16-2012, 12:39
Coming from liar? What a surpise!


ok this should be good. please tell me where i've lied exactly.

TK-421
10-16-2012, 12:40
Crazies always bring up tiny percentage of reasons for abortion to justify majority of them that are done by murderous sluts that simply f---k around with men they are not married with just for fun of it.
Rape or incest is responsible for about 1% of reasons for abortions.

So what is your justification for trying to force other people to do what you want, instead of letting them do what they want?

Kozel
10-16-2012, 12:41
You refer to people as Sodomites and reference Sodom and Gomorrah, etc and you're not religious? At least be honest, if you can't do that, anything else you say is meaningless.

Proper language is required to get around some restrictions around here.

I can only say that people like some people that I have to reply to have their head up their arse but not the other three letter word that starts with “a”.

whauburger
10-16-2012, 12:41
I'll just go with i'm a really smart guy.

Me- at least 2
Kozel-0

Kozel
10-16-2012, 12:43
I'll just go with i'm a really smart guy.

Me- at least 2
Kozel-0

Wow! You came up with whole two turds?! I am glad I did not even play

tantrix
10-16-2012, 12:43
By no stretch of the imagination am I "really smart", I just don't believe it's right to force my beliefs upon others, and I don't try to go meddling in other people's business. And I'm not afraid to tell someone they're a hypocritical moron.

Pro-lifers are always hypocritical...that's why Kozel won't answer my question.

They're always "pro-life" until their wives are walking around pregnant by a rapist.

JMS
10-16-2012, 12:44
Crazies always bring up tiny percentage of reasons for abortion to justify majority of them that are done by murderous sluts that simply f---k around with men they are not married with just for fun of it.
Rape or incest is responsible for about 1% of reasons for abortions.

You use the word slut a lot, what's all the anger at women from? Mommy issues?

It sounds like you have a lot of non resolved issues that cause you some signficant anger.

whauburger
10-16-2012, 12:45
Wow! You came up with whole two turds?! I am glad I did not even play

There is a vast difference in not playing, and loosing. You sir lost.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 12:45
So what is your justification for trying to force other people to do what you want, instead of letting them do what they want?



You are third on the list of people that cannot read on this topic.

Bilbo Bagins
10-16-2012, 12:46
http://maggiekeegangross.com/images/howtoshootyourkidspage.jpg
Maggie Keegan
~Gross Photographer

Notice how the corporate logo is at first glance, a circle of hearts. But at second glance, it's looking down the barrel of a gun. That's love right there.
Oh yeah...he's bored and he's on a roll.
:tequila:

:rofl:

Part 1

Gun Basics - What type of gun and caliber should you choose.

Part 2

Aiming & Shooting - Learn about sights, breathing, and trigger pull

Part 3

Percision & Leading a Moving Target - Learn what to do when your kid is too small or too fast to shoot.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 12:48
There is a vast difference in not playing, and loosing. You sir lost.

I did? Hurray!

You came up with two turds and I did not even play!
Let me know what other idiotic game you are going to play so that I can "loose" by not playing.



.

kensb2
10-16-2012, 12:50
Not me, but couple I was close with, who are very religious and pro-life had the decision to abort or lose the fetus and likely do enough damage that getting pregnant again wouldn't be possible. I keep them in mind every time I see a new law get proposed to limit abortion, most of the time, their situation would not be covered because the mothers life wasn't in danger.

I was curious how long it would take to get a response to my questions. I was faced with this decision when I was only 18. I was not responsible enough, and my gf at the time ended up pregnant. Tough thing to face when you're that age. She was going to go to NY because she was already to far along to have an abortion in NH. I thought about it, and I decided to talk her out of it. It just didn't "feel right" to me, to 'kill' or 'dispose of' this child just because I screwed up. My son is now almost 13. Things are certainly not the way I'd like them to be, as things didn't work out between his mom & I. But all in all, he's a good kid, respectful, does well in school.

I also used to have an absolute view of the abortion issue. I was brought up in a Baptist household/church, and that's just the way it was. Now, I'd have to say that once the fetus has a heartbeat and brainwaves, it's alive. My biggest issue, as I've stated in the other abortion threads, is that I don't think that the gov't should be funding Planned Parenthood. I have to pay enough in taxes as is. The person getting the abortion should be paying for it. I don't ask you to pay for my 'man's issues', ie getting my prostate examined, so why should I have to pay for your abortion? Can anyone here present a coherent arguement as to why I should?

Dennis in MA
10-16-2012, 12:51
You are one of the biggest bible thumpers on this entire website and your question is "non religious"??? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


I don't keep track of every poster here, but I don't think Kozy has ever come off as religious right wing. Fringe anti-government for sure. But I don't see him pushing religious views on GNG. To be fair - I don't read EVERY thread.


BTW - this thing is still here???? Wow.

tantrix
10-16-2012, 12:52
BTW - this thing is still here???? Wow.

Yeah, this has got be a GT record for a discussion.

SGT278ACR
10-16-2012, 13:01
It's amazing this thread has lasted this long without getting locked. The OP was obviously trolling. Sad thing is, I got a GT infraction a couple weeks ago for "trolling" even though I didn't feel that I was and the subject was way less contaversial than this one.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 13:03
I don't keep track of every poster here, but I don't think Kozy has ever come off as religious right wing. .

Wow! Even religious nutcases to not admit me to religious nutcase club and am STILL blamed for being religious nutcase!

NeverMore1701
10-16-2012, 13:05
I wonder if anyone on GT would admit to having had an abortion in their immediate family?

Would Kozel's keyboard melt from the diatribe he would unleash upon reading of such a horrific act?


BRB, have some impregnating to do!

TK-421
10-16-2012, 13:05
You are third on the list of people that cannot read on this topic.

Oh no, please, answer the question. And if you've already answered it, then let me know which post number that post was, because I'd like to go look it up. I'd love to find out why it's okay for you to force your beliefs upon others, but why it's wrong when people try to force their beliefs upon you.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 13:10
And if you've already answered it, then let me know which post number that post was.

I am not trying to be rude in any ways but ability to read is generally required on all on-line forums.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 13:13
I wonder if anyone on GT would admit to having had an abortion in their immediate family?

Would Kozel's keyboard melt from the diatribe he would unleash upon reading of such a horrific act?


BRB, have some impregnating to do!

Actually I know women who had abortions. I accidentally caught one crying her eyes out holding my child.

Do I need to tell you what she was saying?

That was my second most defining moment that made me pro-life.




.

tantrix
10-16-2012, 13:14
I am not trying to be rude in any ways but ability to read is generally required on all on-line forums.

Why are you still dodging his question, and my question?

SGT278ACR
10-16-2012, 13:15
Why are you still dodging his question, and my question?

Because he's a troll and wants to keep this going. He started this thread over 4 hours ago and is still going back and forth constantly on it. Obviously trolling.

The Maggy
10-16-2012, 13:19
Oh no, please, answer the question. And if you've already answered it, then let me know which post number that post was, because I'd like to go look it up. I'd love to find out why it's okay for you to force your beliefs upon others, but why it's wrong when people try to force their beliefs upon you.

Personal attacks instead of responding to genuine questions because of inconsistencies in his worldview. I'm pretty sure its called cognitive dissonance. Either way, it's not a very clever deflection.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 13:21
Why are you still dodging his question, and my question?

You just want me to get banned. I can see that. You know that in order to answer yours and couple of other questions I would have to get very, very rude.

NeverMore1701
10-16-2012, 13:26
You just want me to get banned. I can see that. You know that in order to answer yours and couple of other questions I would have to get very, very rude.

Surely someone of your intellect and high moral character could construct a response that managed to be clear, concise, and civil all at once.

series1811
10-16-2012, 13:30
He's yet to answer mine.


Here it is again Kozel:

Your wife is raped, and ends up pregnant. Do you agree she should be forced by law to carry the baby to term? Answer honestly.

Your wife is raped. The rapist is arrested,and you know he did it, but goes free on a technicality. What are you going to do? Answer honestly.

(The answer is, you're not going to do a damn thing and you know it, but you'll kill his baby, and that will show him who he's dealing with).

Kozel
10-16-2012, 13:35
Your wife is raped. The rapist is arrested,and you know he did it, but goes free on a technicality. What are you going to do? Answer honestly.

(The answer is, you're not going to do a damn thing and you know it, but you'll kill his baby, and that will show him who he's dealing with).

#4 of people not able to read on this topic.

If you get shot by stray bullet from another county does it mean that all guns should be banned? All crazy zealots use ‘evidence” from less then 1% of cases to further their agenda.

TK-421
10-16-2012, 13:43
I am not trying to be rude in any ways but ability to read is generally required on all on-line forums.

No, the ability to read isn't required on all on-line forums, just like the ability to think isn't required for all elections. :rofl:

TK-421
10-16-2012, 13:44
#4 of people not able to read on this topic.

If you get shot by stray bullet from another county does it mean that all guns should be banned? All crazy zealots use ‘evidence” from less then 1% of cases to further their agenda.

If one lady has an abortion in a different county and regrets it, does that mean all abortions should be banned?

tsmo1066
10-16-2012, 13:46
Your wife is raped. The rapist is arrested,and you know he did it, but goes free on a technicality. What are you going to do? Answer honestly.

(The answer is, you're not going to do a damn thing and you know it, but you'll kill his baby, and that will show him who he's dealing with).

Did you know that there have been a number of cases where rapists have actually sued for and won co-custodial parental rights to the children they fathered with a victim after serving their time in jail?

Imagine your wife having to drive every other week over to the home of her rapist to drop off the child she was forced to carry to term for visitations with the very man who violated her? Imagine the emotional horror your wife would endure having to answer the phone and actually carry on a conversation with the man who raped her every time he calls the house to check up on his child (as is his right in a co-custodial situation)?

Personally, I believe there are no moral absolutes on the abortion issue and that there are certainly exceptional cases where abortions need to be allowed. Rape is one of them.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 13:49
No, the ability to read isn't required on all on-line forums, just like the ability to think isn't required for all elections. :rofl:

If you still think that elections make difference then is no wonder that your reading abilities are non existent.

nmk
10-16-2012, 13:50
You just want me to get banned. I can see that. You know that in order to answer yours and couple of other questions I would have to get very, very rude.

Your excuse for refusing to answer a yes/no question is this?

Are you sure you aren't just stalling until the thread gets locked?

TK-421
10-16-2012, 13:53
If you still think that elections make difference then is no wonder that your reading abilities are non existent.

If elections put people with views similar to yours in office, then elections will make all the difference in the world.:faint:

Bilbo Bagins
10-16-2012, 13:54
Your wife is raped. The rapist is arrested,and you know he did it, but goes free on a technicality. What are you going to do? Answer honestly.

(The answer is, you're not going to do a damn thing and you know it, but you'll kill his baby, and that will show him who he's dealing with).

If the wife was raped, she will go to a hospital to have a rape kit done ASAP. One of the steps does include an option for terminating a possible pregnancy, aka a "Morning After" pill. Knowing my wife she would not want to get pregnant post rape, and if somehow she was unable to make the decision and I had to, I would say give her the pill. After that the wife would probably want a D&C to be sure. Again its very early stages of development, and a product of a rape,so morally I'm ok with it.

If the rapist got out on a Techinicality, I would find him, zip tie his hands and feet, then pour gas on him and set him on fire. You are right though , I might not want him to die, maybe I want him to life the rest of his live suffering as a burnt up vegetable.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 13:57
If one lady has an abortion in a different county and regrets it, does that mean all abortions should be banned?
I said that it was second most defining moment that made me pro life. It was not first or last.

As a young man I worked as maintenance guy in hospital one wing of which was delivery ward and another abortion clinic. Things I have inadvertently seen I can never scratch out of my mind.

If there was a light shining on murdering of innocent child it is because I made it work. Same with first light that many newborns have seen.

TK-421
10-16-2012, 13:58
Your wife is raped. The rapist is arrested,and you know he did it, but goes free on a technicality. What are you going to do? Answer honestly.

(The answer is, you're not going to do a damn thing and you know it, but you'll kill his baby, and that will show him who he's dealing with).

Oh that's easy, everybody knows that the body will reject a baby, if the rape is legitimate, and that there's no way she could get pregnant from being raped. :rofl:

NeverMore1701
10-16-2012, 13:59
I said that it was second most defining moment that made me pro life. It was not first or last.

As a young man I was a maintenance guy in hospital one wing of which was delivery ward and another abortion clinic. Things I have inadvertently seen I can never scratch out of my mind.

Oh, you've seen things. I get it now.


:upeyes:

badge315
10-16-2012, 14:14
Can anyone here present a coherent arguement as to why I should?

Because it's cheaper long-term than supporting a welfare baby.

SGT278ACR
10-16-2012, 14:17
Oh, you've seen things. I get it now.


:upeyes:

So, he's like he is because he has abortion clinic maintenance guy PTSD? :rofl:

kensb2
10-16-2012, 14:23
Because it's cheaper long-term than supporting a welfare baby.

I wouldn't exactly call that a coherent argument. I'm hopeful that if this country can ever get around to de funding abortions at Planned Parenthood (which is actually a funny name for a place that performs a lot of abortions), then it can also get around to reigning in the welfare tab as well. I'm not against helping people who legitimately need and want a hand up. I'm against people that sit on their fat butt and expect us to subsidize their laziness.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 14:24
Oh, you've seen things. I get it now.


:upeyes:

You have not seen it so you never will.

Have you ever seen a human, looking very much like a human but not legally defined as such by some lawyers?

Killed just seconds before they let me enter the room and change the light bulb.

It was still warm.

I was the second most invisible person in the building. Last most invisible person was the old woman that got to wipe away all the blood.

Woofie
10-16-2012, 14:24
Pro-life vs what?

Pro-choice people do not finish the sentence. Choice to murder.

Or you could frame it as "Pro Rights" versus "Anti Rights." The pro lifers being against the right to choose.

NeverMore1701
10-16-2012, 14:30
You have not seen it so you never will.

Have you ever seen a human, looking very much like a human but not legally defined as such by some lawyers?

Killed just seconds before they let me enter the room and change the light bulb.

It was still warm.

Don't assume, it makes you look stupid, and no one would want that.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 14:33
Or you could frame it as "Pro Rights" versus "Anti Rights." The pro lifers being against the right to choose.

Finish the sentence. Seems like all “pro-choice” people have problem with grammar bigger then any foreigners.

Choice to do what exactly?

Murder her own child.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 14:37
Don't assume, it makes you look stupid, and no one would want that.

Stupid people are the ones that talk about things they have never seen or know anything about. This topic, including you is a parade of them.

I was the second most invisible person in the building. Last most invisible person was the old woman that got to wipe away all the blood.

KalashniKEV
10-16-2012, 14:39
Oh that's easy, everybody knows that the body will reject a baby, if the rape is legitimate, and that there's no way she could get pregnant from being raped. :rofl:

+1

There are very few babies who are the product of legit rape.

If she gets pregnant, it's usually because she was asking for it... or in love.

NeverMore1701
10-16-2012, 14:48
Stupid people are the ones that talk about things they have never seen or know anything about. This topic, including you is a parade of them.

I was the second most invisible person in the building. Last most invisible person was the old woman that got to wipe away all the blood.

If you insist.

OctoberRust
10-16-2012, 14:51
You have not seen it so you never will.

Have you ever seen a human, looking very much like a human but not legally defined as such by some lawyers?

Killed just seconds before they let me enter the room and change the light bulb.

It was still warm.

I was the second most invisible person in the building. Last most invisible person was the old woman that got to wipe away all the blood.



Uh...... Did you feel the clumpy matter to see if it was still warm?......

Dude, remind me not to let you babysit my children.....EVER......

tantrix
10-16-2012, 14:56
You just want me to get banned. I can see that. You know that in order to answer yours and couple of other questions I would have to get very, very rude.

No reason to get rude...I just wanted you to answer the damn question honestly, and you've dodged it about 3 times now.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 14:56
If you insist.


I know what I have seen. You know only what came out from under the tail of that horse of yours.

Oh by the way. My wife is RN. Stories about what color people turn before they die.... dinner table conversation.

The daily human meat conveyor that is going on…. You know nothing about it.

KalashniKEV
10-16-2012, 14:58
Oh by the way. My wife is RN. Stories about what color people turn before they die.... dinner table conversation.

Did it ever occur to you that you might need to get some therapy?

Seriously.

Woofie
10-16-2012, 14:59
Finish the sentence. Seems like all “pro-choice” people have problem with grammar bigger then any foreigners.

Choice to do what exactly?

Murder her own child.

Right to choose to end the pregnancy. Abortion is not murder, no matter how much you fundamentalists want it to be.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 14:59
No reason to get rude...I just wanted you to answer the damn question honestly, and you've dodged it about 3 times now.

You are still truing to get me banned? Keep trying. I may get banned again.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 15:03
Right to choose to end the pregnancy. Abortion is not murder, no matter how much you fundamentalists want it to be.

Not matter how crazy loonies with 666 on foreheads define it murder is still murder.

NeverMore1701
10-16-2012, 15:04
I know what I have seen. You know only what came out from under the tail of that horse of yours.

Oh by the way. My wife is RN. Stories about what color people turn before they die.... dinner table conversation.

The daily human meat conveyor that is going on…. You know nothing about it.

Ah, I didn't realize you're married to the only person in the world who's in the medical field. My bad.

Woofie
10-16-2012, 15:05
Not matter how crazy loonies with 666 on foreheads define it murder is still murder.

Stating pointless tautologies will not make abortion equivalent to murder.

tantrix
10-16-2012, 15:05
You are still truing to get me banned? Keep trying. I may get banned again.

So you can't answer the question because you'll get banned??

I even phrased it for a yes/no answer.


I'm just going to go ahead and answer it for you. You are pro-life, but if your wife were to get raped and end up pregnant by her rapist, you'd want the baby dead as a doornail. Am I correct? Since you won't answer, I'm assuming this is the case.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 15:07
So you can't answer the question because you'll get banned??

I.

keep trying.

Woofie
10-16-2012, 15:07
Ah, I didn't realize you're married to the only person in the world who's in the medical field. My bad.

My mom is an RN and my dad is a cop. I'm why more qualified to talk about dead people than Kozel.

Kozel
10-16-2012, 15:09
Stating pointless tautologies will not make abortion equivalent to murder.

Indeed. You should not start them then.

FPS
10-16-2012, 15:10
The airplane will eventually take off from the treadmill.

.

tantrix
10-16-2012, 15:11
keep trying.

Nevermind...that's like dodge #5 or so.

Welcome to the club pro-choicer! :cool:

Kozel
10-16-2012, 15:16
My mom is an RN and my dad is a cop. I'm why more qualified to talk about dead people than Kozel.

Your pop was a meter maiden with a gun? Cops write tickets to earn the living, Same thing that meter maidens do only with a gun. They make more money that way.


(yeah, I know, I just pissed off at least half of members on this site.)


Your mom was RN? Surely she told you all the scary stories abot ladies bleeding from you know what to make you eat more Wheaties!

Woofie
10-16-2012, 15:23
Sure wish I'd read far enough to see that Kozel had no interest in actual conversation before I replied.

Live and learn.

The Maggy
10-16-2012, 15:26
You are still truing to get me banned? Keep trying. I may get banned again.

Banned again? Isn't that what's going get you banned again?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine