10mm length case, 45ACP bullet? Does this round exist? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ParisArms
10-16-2012, 14:23
Sorry I know nothing about reloading so the may be the "Stupid Question of the Day." But I was looking at a 10mm round next to a 45ACP round and wondered why not extend the OAL of the 45ACP round to match that of the 10mm. It would seem that the longer case would hold a little more powder, and thus provide a little more velocity. It would seem that if Glock's frame can feed both the 45 and 10 round that it would feed this maybe hypothetical round.
So is there such a round? If so what is it called?


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WinterWizard
10-16-2012, 14:26
Yes, it's called .460 Rowland. .44 Magnum ballistics with .45 acp bullets.

ParisArms
10-16-2012, 15:42
Thank you.


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fastbolt
10-16-2012, 18:44
... I was looking at a 10mm round next to a 45ACP round and wondered why not extend the OAL of the 45ACP round to match that of the 10mm. It would seem that the longer case would hold a little more powder, and thus provide a little more velocity.
...
So is there such a round? If so what is it called?



You mean a stretched version of the .45 ACP, with additional strengthening in the web area to accommodate higher operating pressure, which would fire a 230gr bullet at 1400fps, and be able to use even heavier bullets, like 260gr & 300gr?

It's called the .45 Winchester Magnum. Came out toward the end of the 70's.

SCmasterblaster
10-16-2012, 18:46
You mean a stretched version of the .45 ACP, with additional strengthening in the web area to accommodate higher operating pressure, which would fire a 230gr bullet at 1400fps, and be able to use even heavier bullets, like 260gr & 300gr?

It's called the .45 Winchester Magnum. Came out toward the end of the 70's.

That's correct - the .45 Win Mag.

RYT 2BER
10-16-2012, 21:25
Yes, it's called .460 Rowland. .44 Magnum ballistics with .45 acp bullets.

Ummm not.

The case of the 460 is just a tiny bit bigger than a 45

WinterWizard
10-17-2012, 00:49
Ummm not.

The case of the 460 is just a tiny bit bigger than a 45

Yes, pretty sure that is exactly what the OP asked about - a lengthened .45acp. The case of the .460 is a little longer but the OAL is the same as .45acp because the bullet is simply seated a little deeper. This is to prevent 460 rounds from being chambered in a .45acp barrel. .45 Winchester Magnum works, too.

RYT 2BER
10-17-2012, 04:31
Yes, pretty sure that is exactly what the OP asked about - a lengthened .45acp. The case of the .460 is a little longer but the OAL is the same as .45acp because the bullet is simply seated a little deeper. This is to prevent 460 rounds from being chambered in a .45acp barrel. .45 Winchester Magnum works, too.

Well the op said

"Oal of the 45ACP round to match that of the 10mm"

To match the length of 10mm isn't the 460 Rowland... Just sayin

SCmasterblaster
10-17-2012, 09:28
I think that the .45 Winchester Magnum is what you had in mind.

ParisArms
10-17-2012, 13:11
My terminology my be off, I was thinking OAL.


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SCmasterblaster
10-17-2012, 13:21
My terminology my be off, I was thinking OAL.


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In that case, the .45 Win Mag is too long.

Zombie Steve
10-17-2012, 15:12
With better / thicker brass (in the web area) and a stronger recoil spring, one can load .45 Super in a standard frame / grip size. It's basically .45 auto brought up to modern pressures.

You don't want to use .45 auto brass, but the outside dimensions are the same...

cowboy1964
10-17-2012, 16:24
This is a cool picture.

http://ammoguide.com/gfx/web/compares/45acp/45acpfamily2.gif

SCmasterblaster
10-17-2012, 17:46
This is a cool picture.

http://ammoguide.com/gfx/web/compares/45acp/45acpfamily2.gif

My old .45 ACP is in there somewhere.

English
10-18-2012, 06:43
As I understand it the OAL or LOA is the length overall and is the maximum allowable length of the cartridge as a loaded round. The maximum length of the .45ACP cartridge is a little greater, at 32.39mm or 1.275 inches, than 10mm Auto, at 32mm or1.260 inches. The maximum case or shell length of the 10mm Auto is greater, at 25.20mm or 0.992 inches, than the .45ACP, at 22.81mm or 0.898 inches.

As a matter of interest, the OALs of the 9mm, .40S&W and 357SIG are 29.69mm, 28.83mm and 28.96mm respectively and so have a maximum spread of 0.86mm. It is easy to see from the above that the 9mm, .40S&W and 357SIG are close enough in OAL to fit into the same magazine well size. The 10mm and .45ACP (and the .38 Super Auto and 9x23mm Winchester at about 32.5mm OAL) are about 3.5mm greater in OAL than the 9mm/40 family and so need a bigger magazine well. It is the magazine well dimension, front to back, that is the main constraint on producing a pistol for a longer OAL cartridge of the kind suggested in the OP.

At present we can make cartridge changes relatively cheaply by little more than barrel and magazine changes to existing models. Going beyond the OAL of the cartridges currently available means designing and making a whole new frame. There is one exception to this. Because Glock use magazines made mainly of plastic they have bigger magazine wells that necessary for all steel magazines. The difference is probably close to 2mm, so it would be possible to produce a Glock based pistol for cartridges of about 2mm greater OAL by making new all steel magazines for the Glock.

This would not let you get a 9x23mm Winchester into a 9mm size frame, but it would let you make a 9x21mm GT from a cut down 9x23mm case with a 2mm greater OAL rather than the existing Italian type of 9x23mm with the same OAL as the ordinary 9mm (9x19mm). Such a 9x21mm GT would have balistics close to the 357SIG with the same or greater number of rounds in the magazine as an ordinary 9mm pistol. (The space inside the magazine would be 2mm wider as well as longer front to back).

The problem with this is that magazine design and production is a major weak point of the auto pistol - it is what killed the Bren 10 - and so this woud not be a simple conversion project. For a company like Glock it would be easy enough and they could call it the 9x21mm Glock! I'd want one, but in the mean time I would settle for a 9x23mm Winchester on the 20/21 and 29/30 frames. All that would need would be magazines with narrower lip widths and barrels.

English

Chuck TX
10-18-2012, 09:31
With better / thicker brass (in the web area) and a stronger recoil spring, one can load .45 Super in a standard frame / grip size. It's basically .45 auto brought up to modern pressures.

You don't want to use .45 auto brass, but the outside dimensions are the same...

This. You don't need a whole 'nother set up.

45 Super, it goes to 11!

SDGlock23
10-18-2012, 09:45
That's what I like about loading for the .45 Super, it's the same size as the .45 ACP so I don't really have to change anything, although I do use a better supported KKM barrel. I feel 230's @ 1200 fps, 200's in excess of 1300 fps, and 185's nearing 1400 fps is good enough for a pistol.

SCmasterblaster
10-18-2012, 10:09
That's what I like about loading for the .45 Super, it's the same size as the .45 ACP so I don't really have to change anything, although I do use a better supported KKM barrel. I feel 230's @ 1200 fps, 200's in excess of 1300 fps, and 185's nearing 1400 fps is good enough for a pistol.

are some stout .45 loads there. :shocked: