Looking to Buy first AR [Archive] - Glock Talk

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glockbanger
10-16-2012, 23:55
I'm thinking of going with this BCM upper

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M16-Government-20-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-gov-20.htm

and with a standard BCM lower.

1)I'd like to know what rail you suggest adding the naked upper I'm considering? ... And, are there any complications with mounting a rail to an upper with a fixed front site?

2)I'm pretty set on going with the 20" barrel. But if you guys have any other suggestions as to which direction I should take, feel free. I see that this upper has the chrome bore and chamber... are there any other important features I should be looking for?

EDIT:3) How much more do Noveske ARs run than BCM?

arushus
10-17-2012, 00:47
Dont forget to get the bcm bolt carrier group and charging handle. BCM makes excellent products.

Clutch Cargo
10-17-2012, 03:04
20" barrel makes me think this will be more a varmint weapon and less a defensive weapon?

glockbanger
10-17-2012, 07:27
20" barrel makes me think this will be more a varmint weapon and less a defensive weapon?

I'll be hunting with it as well, so dual purpose.

MrMurphy
10-17-2012, 08:09
Get the full length MOE handguard.

No need for a full length rail for a hunting/varmint rifle honestly. The freefloat is nice but if you're shooting from a bag or rest, not exactly necessary. Also saves some weight.

I don't have much use for the 20", a 16 will do anything a 20 will inside 300m especially scoped, but there's nothing really wrong with it.

mjkeat
10-17-2012, 08:36
How about a 13 or 15" Troy Tube? The 13" weighs 11.43oz. roughly 2 oz. more than the 11". I'd think the 15" weighs 13 1/2oz. The Magpul rifle length MOE weighs almost 15oz. not counting the FSP which would be heavier than a shaved down FSP.

For hunting wouldn't the extra weight savings and free floated tube add to the experience?

I also agree that a 16" might fit the OPs general purpose plans better than the 20".

glockbanger
10-17-2012, 23:25
Thanks guys, all good suggestion. I should have said this earlier, the type of rail I'm interested in is one that you can add rail partitions onto at will(not sure what they're called). But a long one.

WoodenPlank
10-17-2012, 23:35
Thanks guys, all good suggestion. I should have said this earlier, the type of rail I'm interested in is one that you can add rail partitions onto at will(not sure what they're called). But a long one.

Then I would suggest either the Troy offerings, or a Daniel Defense MFR.

You can do much the same thing with the MOE handguards, too, for a much lower price. The down side is the MOE handguards are not free floated, but they are much less expensive.

NeverMore1701
10-17-2012, 23:45
How about a 13 or 15" Troy Tube? The 13" weighs 11.43oz. roughly 2 oz. more than the 11". I'd think the 15" weighs 13 1/2oz. The Magpul rifle length MOE weighs almost 15oz. not counting the FSP which would be heavier than a shaved down FSP.

For hunting wouldn't the extra weight savings and free floated tube add to the experience?

I also agree that a 16" might fit the OPs general purpose plans better than the 20".

I love my 15" VTAC Alpha, it's a hair lighter than the rifle MOE handguards and associated hardware. Will be replacing the MOEs on my midlength with them as well.

glockbanger
10-19-2012, 11:50
Dont forget to get the bcm bolt carrier group and charging handle. BCM makes excellent products.

Which ones?

Hour13
10-19-2012, 23:19
Which ones?

This...

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm


and one of these...

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFIGHTER-Charging-Handle-s/123.htm


If something is out of stock, click the "email me" button. Wait for the email, then jump on it. Quickly.

:wavey:

arushus
10-20-2012, 14:19
This...

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm


and one of these...

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFIGHTER-Charging-Handle-s/123.htm


If something is out of stock, click the "email me" button. Wait for the email, then jump on it. Quickly.

:wavey:

These are good suggestions. I was just trying to remind you to pick these items up since BCM doesnt sell them with their uppers.

glockbanger
10-20-2012, 17:44
Thanks for the direction with the parts.
Do you prefer the large or medium latch charging handle?

Also, I'm now thinking about this upper
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Standard-16-M4-SOCOM-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-m4-16socom.htm
It's the socom profile, carbine length gas upper.
My question is, what kind of rail will I be able to attach to this and how hard will it be with the fixed front sight?

Do I need a low profile gas block and an upper w/o a front sight to accomodate a rail like the Troy alpha? If I could find one, I'd go with a 16" medium profile barrel, low profile gas, and no front sight. Any suggestions?

TactiCool
10-20-2012, 18:21
Thanks for the direction with the parts.
Do you prefer the large or medium latch charging handle?

Also, I'm now thinking about this upper
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Standard-16-M4-SOCOM-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-m4-16socom.htm
It's the socom profile, carbine length gas upper.
My question is, what kind of rail will I be able to attach to this and how hard will it be with the fixed front sight?

Do I need a low profile gas block and an upper w/o a front sight to accomodate a rail like the Troy alpha? If I could find one, I'd go with a 16" medium profile barrel, low profile gas, and no front sight. Any suggestions?

If you're getting a 16" then get a mid-length gas system. Also that heavy barrel will do nothing for you unless you plan on alot of sustained F/A. Gov't profile is ideal for your needs. It's what I use.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm

As for rails, you should decide what length you want. If you need longer than 9'', cutting down the FSB to fit a longer one is pretty straight forward. There are plenty of youtube vids on that. If you're not a DIY sort then just buy the upper with the rail that you want.

For latch size, that is personal preference.

glockbanger
10-20-2012, 18:34
If you're getting a 16" then get a mid-length gas system. Also that heavy barrel will do nothing for you unless you plan on alot of sustained F/A. Gov't profile is ideal for your needs. It's what I use.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm

As for rails, you should decide what length you want. If you need longer than 9'', cutting down the FSB to fit a longer one is pretty straight forward. There are plenty of youtube vids on that. If you're not a DIY sort then just buy the upper with the rail that you want.

For latch size, that is personal preference.

I'd like the longer gas system, the carbine length is all that I found avail. at from BCM. The heavier barrel just makes me feel better, and I'm not concerned about weight. If I could install a nice rail without having to alter the FSB, that's what I'd do. I just don't know how complicated that is? As for latch size, the big one looks good to me, I've only shot a couple ARs and I'm not sure what they had, so I haven't been able to form my own opinion. As long as the big one doesn't get in the way, that's what I'd go with.

TactiCool
10-20-2012, 19:54
I'd like the longer gas system, the carbine length is all that I found avail. at from BCM. The heavier barrel just makes me feel better, and I'm not concerned about weight. If I could install a nice rail without having to alter the FSB, that's what I'd do. I just don't know how complicated that is? As for latch size, the big one looks good to me, I've only shot a couple ARs and I'm not sure what they had, so I haven't been able to form my own opinion. As long as the big one doesn't get in the way, that's what I'd go with.

The socom profile will give you absoluely zero benefits over the gov't. and will make the rifle balance poorly once you start adding accessories. You will really notice the extra weight when you add a rail and start putting things on it. But if a 9-10 lb. gun is what you want to end up with, go ahead.

There is really only one option for a free float drop-in rail that requires zero modifications:

https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems.html?cat=42

glockbanger
10-20-2012, 20:34
The socom profile will give you absoluely zero benefits over the gov't. and will make the rifle balance poorly once you start adding accessories. You will really notice the extra weight when you add a rail and start putting things on it. But if a 9-10 lb. gun is what you want to end up with, go ahead.

There is really only one option for a free float drop-in rail that requires zero modifications:

https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems.html?cat=42

And does this rail fit over the standard profile gas block?

How has Daniel Defense changed the install?

I wouldn't mind having to install a rail, just wondering what's involved in doing so if there is a FSB and standard profile gas block?

TactiCool
10-20-2012, 20:52
And does this rail fit over the standard profile gas block?

How has Daniel Defense changed the install?

I wouldn't mind having to install a rail, just wondering what's involved in doing so if there is a FSB and standard profile gas block?

It's a two-piece drop in. The two halves bolt together around the barrel nut and screws apply pressure to the nut to keep it from shifting. It is rock solid and will maintain zero with optics mounted onto it. There are plenty of install vids on youtube.

glockbanger
10-20-2012, 21:10
It's a two-piece drop in. The two halves bolt together around the barrel nut and screws apply pressure to the nut to keep it from shifting. It is rock solid and will maintain zero with optics mounted onto it. There are plenty of install vids on youtube.

Thanks, sounds like "the stuff".

glockbanger
10-20-2012, 22:00
I'm thinking of going with BCM Mid-16, BCM RECCE 16, or Colt LE6920 SOCOM.

For one reason, BCM lowers can't be ordered ATM, but also just to simplify things. I may be able to save $100 on sights if I go with the Mid-16, but I settle for carbine length gas. BCM has a lifetime warranty, whereas Colt does not. The only thing I really want missing from the BCM rifles is the SOCOM barrel profile. Does anyone else besides Colt make a complete rifle with a SOCOM barrel?

What exactly is the difference in the BCM rails? I notice that with the RECCE, the barrel nut is not visible. What does this mean?

Hour13
10-20-2012, 22:03
Thanks for the direction with the parts.
Do you prefer the large or medium latch charging handle?

Also, I'm now thinking about this upper
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Standard-16-M4-SOCOM-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-m4-16socom.htm
It's the socom profile, carbine length gas upper.
My question is, what kind of rail will I be able to attach to this and how hard will it be with the fixed front sight?

Do I need a low profile gas block and an upper w/o a front sight to accomodate a rail like the Troy alpha? If I could find one, I'd go with a 16" medium profile barrel, low profile gas, and no front sight. Any suggestions?

I actually prefer the small latch(Mod5). Still plenty to get a hold of, even with gloves on, but doesn't protrude out as much.

I like your ideas on where you're going with this build, and BCM is a no-brainer, you will not be disappointed.

However...

This being your first AR build, consider toning it down a bit. Start with the basics, but quality basics, and learn the rifle. It's very easy to go overboard, especially first time out the gate.

What I would consider an "ideal" 1st AR build...

1) You're on par, the BCM lower is a good call.
2) 16" BCM mid-length std profile upper.
3) Their BCG to go along with it.
4) Whatever Gunfighter CH you like. Money well spent.
5) Quality rear sight. DanielDefense, Troy, etc...

I'd pop for at least the MOE stock right outta the gate, much tighter lock-up than the std M4 stock. Standard Carbine buffer will do you just fine in a middy.

Keep the rest simple. Leave the trigger group alone, leave the fixed front sight and the basic A2 flash hider there. MOE handguards, or a quality set of drop-in rails like the above mentioned DD set.

Lots, and LOTS of ammo & P-mags. Shoot the snot out of it, then shoot it some more. When you're done, buy more ammo, and shoot it some more.

You can't buy anything that'll compare to trigger time.

When you have a good feel for the irons, invest in a RDS like the Aimpoint PRO. Try different foregrips, different pistol grips, etc. Figure out, through trigger time, what accessories work best for you, and what you don't need. Look into taking some classes, alot of cool stuff to be learned.

Then **** it all up with free-float guards and whatnot, lol.
:supergrin:


:wavey:

mjkeat
10-20-2012, 22:11
BCM is a great choice.

Although lots of range time is a good thing if those rounds are sent down range in a mmannerthat builds bad habits it's a waste of time and money.

glockbanger
10-21-2012, 07:53
Ok, so now I'm also thinking about this Noveske VIS upper

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=lrbv-556&cat=138&page=1&search=&since=&status=&title=

What complete lower should I get and where to buy?

mjkeat
10-21-2012, 08:18
Noveske Gen II

glockbanger
10-21-2012, 08:28
Noveske Gen II

Is anything diff about a Gen II? Also, what parts do I need to complete the lower?

mjkeat
10-21-2012, 09:51
Flared magwell and integrated trigger guard in a forged lower. The lines will match up nicer w/ the Noveske upper, if you're into that. Other than that like most will say an in-spec lower is an in-spec lower. Pick whichever you like.

glockbanger
10-21-2012, 12:28
Flared magwell and integrated trigger guard in a forged lower. The lines will match up nicer w/ the Noveske upper, if you're into that. Other than that like most will say an in-spec lower is an in-spec lower. Pick whichever you like.

Sounds nice, but what parts do I need in addition to the lower, obviously the stock, but what more?

WoodenPlank
10-21-2012, 12:47
Sounds nice, but what parts do I need in addition to the lower, obviously the stock, but what more?

A standard lower parts kit will have most of them. Mag and bolt catch assemblies, trigger assembly (including safety) takedown pins with springs and detents, trigger guard, and grip (with mounting hardware for each).

You'll also need a buffer tube, stock, buffer, action/buffer spring, and (if using carbine stock) castle nut and end plate.

glockbanger
10-21-2012, 13:09
A standard lower parts kit will have most of them. Mag and bolt catch assemblies, trigger assembly (including safety) takedown pins with springs and detents, trigger guard, and grip (with mounting hardware for each).

You'll also need a buffer tube, stock, buffer, action/buffer spring, and (if using carbine stock) castle nut and end plate.

So the Noveske Lower will come with a parts kit?

Where do I find these other parts?

mjkeat
10-21-2012, 13:15
Order a lower build kit from www.DSGarms.com.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

WoodenPlank
10-21-2012, 13:40
So the Noveske Lower will come with a parts kit?

Where do I find these other parts?

I assume you're buying a stripped lower. In that case, no parts included.

glockbanger
10-21-2012, 16:25
I assume you're buying a stripped lower. In that case, no parts included.

I'd rather buy a complete lower. All I want in a lower really is a simple A2 stock, but I wouldn't mind the M4 stock.

If Noveske doesn't make a complete lower, I'll buy the stripped one, parts kit, and the other parts as well. I just need direction as to where to get them.

mjkeat
10-21-2012, 18:14
Rainier Arms puts together a complete lower w/ some real nice parts at a great price.