Armstrong stripped of 7 Tour De France titles.. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Detectorist
10-22-2012, 05:48
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/22/cycling-body-to-rule-on-lance-armstrongs-tour-de-france-wins/?hpt=hp_t1

Not sure if I agree with the decision. I don't think he ever failed a drug test in Europe.

Oh well...

Edit

I say make 'doping' legal. It will make all racers equal. It's not like steroids with well known serious side effects.

I think Armstrong would clean up in a fully clean or 100% doping enhance competition.

JBnTX
10-22-2012, 05:52
Another doper (cheater) bites the dust!

..

HerrGlock
10-22-2012, 05:56
and thus the witch hunt ends. At least I hope so.

I quit caring whether or not he doped three/four years ago on the 50th or so "investigation" they did and that was back when it actually mattered to the record books because he was still at least partially in the game.

The only real loser in this is pro cycling. If they're going to witch hunt every time they get someone good who never fails their drug tests, it's not about doping, it's about personality conflicts.

BSA70
10-22-2012, 06:00
Oh well.......

This reminds me of Boxing in the early 90s. I was a huge fan and followed Mike Tyson. Then all the corruption with Don King started coming out. All the fights were fixed. Ruined boxing and it has never come back.

Thank goodness for UFC!

lunarspeak
10-22-2012, 06:02
why does this matter..he is famous for rideing a bike in a race in france,,,he is barely a step up from a kardashien

his parents named him after a dallas cowboy, he dated sherril crow,,he reped the postal service in his races


isnt he missing a testicle????????


i will not be loseing any sleep over this

ChuteTheMall
10-22-2012, 06:04
He never flunked a drug test, but he stepped on a few toes.

SC Tiger
10-22-2012, 06:42
The only real loser in this is pro cycling. If they're going to witch hunt every time they get someone good who never fails their drug tests, it's not about doping, it's about personality conflicts.

Nobody watches it anyway.

certifiedfunds
10-22-2012, 06:55
why does this matter..he is famous for rideing a bike in a race in france,,,he is barely a step up from a kardashien

his parents named him after a dallas cowboy, he dated sherril crow,,he reped the postal service in his races


isnt he missing a testicle????????


i will not be loseing any sleep over this

Possibly the greatest American athlete of your time. Certainly one of the very few.

ChuteTheMall
10-22-2012, 07:01
Possibly the greatest American athlete of your time. Certainly one of the very few.

Right up there with Greg LeMonde, the first American to win Tour d'France, then he won it two more times after surviving a shotgun blast to the groin.

:nutcheck:

tongix
10-22-2012, 07:06
The heat is now too much. Armstrong must admit he did take dope. Theres more to him than meets the eye. There were those who provided the dope who are his supporters even to this day.

Lampshade
10-22-2012, 07:10
I say make 'doping' legal. It will make all racers equal. It's not like steroids with well known serious side effects.

Actually, "doping" includes AAS (steroids) and blood doping can also have serious consequences, like death.

certifiedfunds
10-22-2012, 07:18
Did he dope? Maybe. The entire peloton did. Lance's crime was that he owned THEIR sport.

But now check out his re-entry into triathlon. Still doping?

The dude is a freak and has been his entire life. I did a sprint tri last year that Lance won outright when he was 16.

Here he is at 15 racing toe to toe with the best in the world. Was he doping at 15?

Lance age 15 at 1987 Bermuda triathlon - YouTube

Altaris
10-22-2012, 07:29
Like anyone should care over him “officially” losing the titles. We still know who won. He cheated on a sport where everyone cheats… It was an even playing field. He did a lot of good for them, for the sport, and for people outside of the sporting world (Cancer research). Pretty much everyone I know (including me) had never even heard of the Tour De France until Lance came along.

His problem is that he has so strongly denied it for so long. He needs to just come out and admit it and get it over with.

M&P15T
10-22-2012, 07:32
Just my $.02.....

Whether he did or did not cheat, I'm ready for this topic to go away.

Cycling is lame to me, even though I ride.

BuzznRose
10-22-2012, 07:35
Did he dope? Maybe. The entire peloton did. Lance's crime was that he owned THEIR sport.

But now check out his re-entry into triathlon. Still doping?

The dude is a freak and has been his entire life. I did a sprint tri last year that Lance won outright when he was 16.

Here he is at 15 racing toe to toe with the best in the world. Was he doping at 15?

Lance age 15 at 1987 Bermuda triathlon - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HorLQHQ3pMc)

Exactly! All Lance did wrong was stop fighting the crap! They wore him down just like Liberals wear everyone down until they get what they want!

Lance never failed their drug tests. His only crime (in their eyes) is that he kept kicking their butts!

Anyone who thinks this is justice is buying the Liberal hype. Armstrong never got due process...


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frank4570
10-22-2012, 07:39
They tried so very hard to catch him and never really did. Even with this witch hunt they couldn't get him to fail a test. So how many people are getting away with it who are NOT under the magnifying glass? Probably all of them.

Lampshade
10-22-2012, 07:40
Anyone who thinks this is justice is buying the Liberal hype. Armstrong never got due process...

Armstrong opted out of his due process by failing to show up at the required hearing, and it is kind of pathetic that we can't even get through a cycling doping thread without someone going off about liberal this, or liberal that.

certifiedfunds
10-22-2012, 07:42
Still doping?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=BfkhEJkxxXI

BuzznRose
10-22-2012, 07:42
And if Armstrong did dope, he clearly passed all drug tests, or they would have busted him before/after the races.

All you folks who say he needs to 'fess up' need to read and learn the 5th Amendment.

Seriously...Lance is a dual cancer survivor, unbelievable athletes, proud Texan, and an American icon being hammered by a bunch of whiney liberals and y'all want to kick him while he's down? Really?

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certifiedfunds
10-22-2012, 07:43
How about here? Still doping?

2012 Ironman 70.3 Florida - Lance Armstrong Finish - YouTube

Lampshade
10-22-2012, 07:44
Still doping?


The fact that he was obviously doping in the past doesn't take away from his natural talent and ability.

To be the best at a highly contested physical event like cycling, you have to have the right genes to begin with.

Then, among the population with the right genes, you have those that will take PEDs.

Its just how the selection process works.

Is one natural person going to be better than not only all the other genetic freaks, but better than all the other genetic freaks who are also on drugs... year, after year, after year, after year, 7 times over?

Common sense suggests otherwise.

certifiedfunds
10-22-2012, 07:49
The fact that he was obviously doping in the past doesn't take away from his natural talent and ability.

To be the best at a highly contested physical event like cycling, you have to have the right genes to begin with.

Then, among the population with the right genes, you have those that will take PEDs.

Its just how the selection process works.

Is one natural person going to be better than not only all the other genetic freaks, but better than all the other genetic freaks who are also on drugs... year, after year, after year, after year, 7 times over?

Common sense suggests otherwise.

<Double Negative Warning>

I don't disagree. What you had was a huge crowd of genetic freaks, doping.

My point being, Lance has either been doping since the mid 80's without any apparent negative side effects OR he's just that damn good.

MLM
10-22-2012, 07:55
Did he dope or not?
I don't think he did.
A friend of mine that rides tells me that Armstrong has the physiology that is able to convert sugars into energy very efficiency that is rarely seen. Thus, he's able to do very well in the physically demanding sports.
I'm willing to bet the main reason he was targeted mercilessly is because the French got their feelings hurt.

Lampshade
10-22-2012, 07:58
Did he dope or not?
I don't think he did.
A friend of mine that rides tells me that Armstrong has the physiology that is able to convert sugars into energy very efficiency that is rarely seen. Thus, he's able to do very well in the physically demanding sports.

Of course he has favorable physiology, so does every top athlete in every sport.

The question is, is his physiology so much better that he beats not just the other natural guys, but all the other guys with favorable physiology who also take PEDs?

Common sense says no.

Chuck TX
10-22-2012, 08:00
How many tests did he fail? I don't really follow or give a rat's ass about cycling, but I can't recall anything about him conclusively failing one. Seems like they're killing the popularity of their sport.

frank4570
10-22-2012, 08:02
How many tests did he fail? I don't really follow or give a rat's ass about cycling, but I can't recall anything about him conclusively failing one. Seems like they're killing the popularity of their sport.

I don't believe he ever failed a test. But they have a LOT of witnesses, many of them his own team mates.

itstime
10-22-2012, 08:04
I've talked to serious cyclists that raced with him waaay before he was famous when he was a teenager racing amateuer stuff.

They said he was just that good. His body did not tire down like other people. He could get on a bike and just ride.

certifiedfunds
10-22-2012, 08:05
I don't believe he ever failed a test. But they have a LOT of witnesses, many of them his own team mates.

Being a teammate in cycling is a far cry from being a "friend"

ChuteTheMall
10-22-2012, 08:12
Federal grand jury refused to file charges, he never failed a drug test, his whiny jealous detractors would hound him to death with hearsay if he let them. They've been after him for years and years.

Life is too short to waste arguing with petty bureaucrats, especially for a cancer survivor with better things to do.


"You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill."-Eddie Merxx

2@low8
10-22-2012, 08:28
So they strip him of 7 titles. Name just one of the "winners" now. Their names are on the dung-heaps of cycling.

Yea, I won because Lance got his title stripped. Woo-hoo. Like I said, name one second place winner.

fnfalman
10-22-2012, 08:41
They can strip whatever they want, we all know, the world knows who kicked the Euro's asses seven times in the Tour de France.

mgs
10-22-2012, 08:53
We should have left the Germans finish them off! I will never step foot in that POS country. They offer nothing to me.

eagle359
10-22-2012, 09:24
After the third or fourth time he won do you not think that the Frogs were running every test that they had to find what he was taking? He is most likely the most tested person in history and passed them all. Really??? You never failed one of our tests but we are taking your seven titles. Reallllllly??? You guys need to get better test/testers or go find something else to do.

686Owner
10-22-2012, 09:53
Of course he has favorable physiology, so does every top athlete in every sport.

The question is, is his physiology so much better that he beats not just the other natural guys, but all the other guys with favorable physiology who also take PEDs?

Common sense says no.

So common sense says whoever won doped every year.

Why have a race then?

eruby
10-22-2012, 10:35
They can strip whatever they want, we all know, the world knows who kicked the Euro's asses seven times in the Tour de France.This. Cry babies all.

We should have left the Germans finish them off! I will never step foot in that POS country. They offer nothing to me.Too bad the German's didn't bomb France, instead of Pearl Harbor. :supergrin:

davew83
10-22-2012, 10:47
After the third or fourth time he won do you not think that the Frogs were running every test that they had to find what he was taking? He is most likely the most tested person in history and passed them all. Really??? You never failed one of our tests but we are taking your seven titles. Reallllllly??? You guys need to get better test/testers or go find something else to do.

They knew what he was taking but he was below the threshold of testing positive. I'll post an article that explains the procedure and you can make your own decision from that.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden?null

kensb2
10-22-2012, 10:54
Wait...all the people complaining about the French here: wasn't it the USADA that went after him for years and years??? Yes, the French agreed to side with the USADA, but is that really that surprising? If the French didn't strip him, then it weakens all the anti-doping agencies collectively. We all know that they're power hungry, whether it's the USADA or WADA or whomever. Did Lance dope? Probably, but I think it was blood doping, not PEDs in the traditional sense. Is that wrong? I don't personally think so. Also, if Lance had this doping scheme so down pat, how did so many of his teammates get caught? But not him? Sounds like reasonable doubt to me, although I haven't sat and read all the supposed 'evidence' the USADA had against him.

janice6
10-22-2012, 10:56
It is so much better to trash a winner. No one cares about the losers that dope, they didn't win. Screw 'em, Lance was never disqualified prior to the race and after testing of each race.

He will still be the big cycling winner, in spite of the jealousy and envy of the losers.
History will not be deleted because of retro-active losing pangs.

686Owner
10-22-2012, 11:02
They knew what he was taking but he was below the threshold of testing positive. I'll post an article that explains the procedure and you can make your own decision from that.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden?null

Perhaps they need to refine their tests then.

Lampshade
10-22-2012, 11:04
So common sense says whoever won doped every year.

If your general expectation for the top physical performers in the world is that they are drug free, then you are terribly naive.

ICARRY2
10-22-2012, 12:03
But he gets to keep all that money. :)

Detectorist
10-22-2012, 13:10
But he gets to keep all that money. :)

Actually, the Tour organizers are asking for their money back. :steamed:

mhambi
10-22-2012, 13:14
Federal grand jury refused to file charges, he never failed a drug test, his whiny jealous detractors would hound him to death with hearsay if he let them. They've been after him for years and years.

Life is too short to waste arguing with petty bureaucrats, especially for a cancer survivor with better things to do.


"You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill."-Eddie Merxx

http://i46.tinypic.com/2ufpml3.jpg

eruby
10-22-2012, 13:19
"You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill."- Eddie Merxx Col. Kurtz / J. PetermanFixed it for ya. :cool:

certifiedfunds
10-22-2012, 13:26
Perhaps they need to refine their tests then.

In fairness, I haven't really taken a side on this other than its a witch hunt at a witch convention, but, testing has historically lagged new doping techniques.

Berto
10-22-2012, 13:30
The power of butthurt, plain and simple.
He won those races, fair and square.

oldman11
10-22-2012, 13:30
Exactly! All Lance did wrong was stop fighting the crap! They wore him down just like Liberals wear everyone down until they get what they want!

Lance never failed their drug tests. His only crime (in their eyes) is that he kept kicking their butts!

Anyone who thinks this is justice is buying the Liberal hype. Armstrong never got due process...


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Exactly.

devildog2067
10-22-2012, 13:34
So they strip him of 7 titles. Name just one of the "winners" now. Their names are on the dung-heaps of cycling.

Yea, I won because Lance got his title stripped. Woo-hoo. Like I said, name one second place winner.

"Striking Armstrong's name from the records and adjusting the results may yet prove to be unsatisfying. His seven wins would instead be awarded to Alex Zulle, Joseba Beloki, Andreas Kloden, Ivan Basso and Jan Ullrich, who would inherit three titles. Ullrich and Basso were banned. Zulle admitted EPO use and Kloden is under investigation now. Beloki was cleared of involvement in Operacion Puerto." - Pro Cycling.

norm357
10-22-2012, 13:40
They never proved he cheated or doped up. He is the most drug tested athelete in history.

VC-Racing
10-22-2012, 13:46
If he tested clean during the test period for the year he was tested, I say he's good. If he did "dope" and was successful with negative results , well he played the game better than anyone else did... It life in sports.
Did any other participants test "neg" also. No one knows, or at least I don't and don't actually care . All I've heard was that the ones that tested "positive" decided to testify against LA. For me, personally that doesn't help the USADA Dumb A**'s or UCI .

I understand why he stopped fighting the accusations. I would have done the same in his situations , because its a no win scenario... **** all the UCI , USADA and the bicycles they rode in on....:cool:

mhambi
10-22-2012, 15:05
"Striking Armstrong's name from the records and adjusting the results may yet prove to be unsatisfying. His seven wins would instead be awarded to Alex Zulle, Joseba Beloki, Andreas Kloden, Ivan Basso and Jan Ullrich, who would inherit three titles. Ullrich and Basso were banned. Zulle admitted EPO use and Kloden is under investigation now. Beloki was cleared of involvement in Operacion Puerto." - Pro Cycling.


When then get far enough down the list to someone who isn't tainted by doping scandals they'll award the wins to one Marco Delcino, a motorcycle support crew rider.


:rofl:

fnfalman
10-22-2012, 16:43
Did Armstrong dope up? I don't know. I wasn't there, I didn't see it.

Did Armstrong pass a lot of tests of which many of his peers took and failed? Yes, he did.

Testimonies from his teammates as credible evidence? Show me that his teammates didn't have ulterior motives and I'll believe them. They all got caught and pissed because he didn't. Or they simply were and are jealous of his supremacy.

ChuteTheMall
10-22-2012, 16:48
Fixed it for ya. :cool:

:crying:Nobody got my Eddy Merckx reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Merckx#Doping

Merckx has condemned doping but he tested positive three times

Eddy Merckx, is a Belgian former professional cyclist. The French magazine Vélo called him "the most accomplished rider that cycling has ever known."[2] The American publication VeloNews called him the greatest and most successful cyclist of all time.[3] He won the Tour de France five times and ...

686Owner
10-22-2012, 16:50
If your general expectation for the top physical performers in the world is that they are drug free, then you are terribly naive.

It's not my expectation, but it's the expectation of the Tour, hence the stripping of the titles.

Maybe I should amend my comment to "why test?" then. Better?

fnfalman
10-22-2012, 17:01
It's not my expectation, but it's the expectation of the Tour, hence the stripping of the titles.

Maybe I should amend my comment to "why test?" then. Better?

Armstrong was tested repeatedly at every one of these races and passed.

The United States Federal Government went after him and couldn't find him doing anything wrong.

Who is this outfit US-whatever that has evidences that even the Feds couldn't get?

Harley6133
10-22-2012, 17:07
Might as well cancel television coverage for the next tour. Probably will only get 3 people to watch

M&P Shooter
10-22-2012, 17:07
Never cared about him when he was famous and still don't care about him now:dunno:

glockski
10-22-2012, 17:25
Did Armstrong dope up? I don't know. I wasn't there, I didn't see it.

Did Armstrong pass a lot of tests of which many of his peers took and failed? Yes, he did.

Testimonies from his teammates as credible evidence? Show me that his teammates didn't have ulterior motives and I'll believe them. They all got caught and pissed because he didn't. Or they simply were and are jealous of his supremacy.
Plus one stripping his titles is total BS with no real evidence Screw the Tour de france

NMGlocker
10-22-2012, 17:48
Sometimes the stars align and the right person finds the right sport and magic happens.
Armstrong, Jordan, Phelps, Federer, Bolt...

Magnus2131
10-22-2012, 18:44
Cycling is lame and he was the only person that made anyone care. Say goodbye

Taterhead
10-22-2012, 18:48
Maybe someone can help me here. What is this "overwhelming evidence" that I keep hearing from his accusers?

Heresay?

Is there any hard evidence?

What, exactly, is the evidence against Armstrong? I have been looking, but I still don't have a clear picture about what lead to this conclusion by the governing bodies.

Having no personal opinion about guilt or innocence due to lack of information, I am curious about the charges. If he is a cheater, he is also a liar. That would be more than a small disappointment.

M&P Shooter
10-22-2012, 19:03
Cycling is lame
That sounds much better:whistling:

AK_Stick
10-22-2012, 22:30
I wonder how this will impact cycling as a sport?


Do too well, and pass every screening/test they give, and even if they can't prove you cheated, they'll strip your titles and ban you from the sport.


It was a witch hunt from the very get go. People who couldn't compete were pissed he was better, and there it began.

oldman11
10-22-2012, 22:57
I wonder how this will impact cycling as a sport?


Do too well, and pass every screening/test they give, and even if they can't prove you cheated, they'll strip your titles and ban you from the sport.


It was a witch hunt from the very get go. People who couldn't compete were pissed he was better, and there it began.
You're absolutely right. But Frogs are like that.

Tango 1Zero
10-22-2012, 23:55
I heard on the radio the officials said they were leaving holes in the records removing hi sname and leaving it with no winner on the books. No runner ups will be given the medals because they failed drug tests to at one point. So it seems they all are drugging up so who gives a ****.

El_Ron1
10-23-2012, 00:24
Blame the French.




http://www.ralphmag.org/CV/crying-frenchman500x368.gif

Big Bird
10-23-2012, 06:09
At least we still have professional wrestling. Other than the occasional folding chair incidents its the last bastion of honest athletic competition in the free world.

Altaris
10-23-2012, 06:43
At least we still have professional wrestling. Other than the occasional folding chair incidents its the last bastion of honest athletic competition in the free world.

The sad thing is that there is less doping in WWE than in cycling.

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 07:40
The sad thing is that there is less doping in WWE than in cycling.

Yeah I wouldn't say that. PEDs and other

droidfire
10-23-2012, 07:54
Only thing that comes to mind is poor pluto...

HarlDane
01-13-2013, 00:10
So it looks like Lance will fess up Monday. I've always been a fan and I always figured he was doped up just like every other rider in the peloton and that he still beat the pants off the best in the world on a level (albeit artificially elevated) playing field.

What I never understood was the political connection so many conservatives wanted to make to Lance and the scandal (this thread contains a few excellent examples) and their continued insistance that the guy was clean despite the huge mountain of evidence. Especially considering the guy is an admitted liberal. :dunno:

Dennis in MA
01-14-2013, 06:56
Urtz a conspurrrusee! :rofl:

I won't watch, but I'm not surprised. Believing Lance was NOT doping is like believing the government hides UFO's at Area 51.

cscsguy1
01-14-2013, 19:56
What a lot of people do not realize that when you are accused of a crime you are entitled to representation. If you cannot afford representation it will be provided for you. You are entitled to all the evidence against you. And finally, you are entitled to a jury of your peers chosen and agreed upon by both the defense and prosecution.
When you are accused of doping you are entitled to representation if you can afford it if not well tough. You are entitled to only the evidence the prosecution allows you to have. And finally, you are entitled to a jury of 3 chosen off of an approved list provided by the prosecution.
Oh and by the way this is in America and supported by at least 60% with your tax dollars

Lastly, USADA has never lost a prosecution over drugs in sport. They are either that good or have stacked the cards against the athletes.
Just my opinion.

tacticalG23
01-15-2013, 10:44
Taking 7 titles from Lance has about the same effect as stripping 111 wins from Paterno.. I can't actually understand what they are accomplishing. Does one just erase history and rewrite it? Can we all do that? How does the second place person feel knowing they never were and never will be #1...

Dennis in MA
01-15-2013, 12:33
What a lot of people do not realize that when you are accused of a crime you are entitled to representation. If you cannot afford representation it will be provided for you. You are entitled to all the evidence against you. And finally, you are entitled to a jury of your peers chosen and agreed upon by both the defense and prosecution.
When you are accused of doping you are entitled to representation if you can afford it if not well tough. You are entitled to only the evidence the prosecution allows you to have. And finally, you are entitled to a jury of 3 chosen off of an approved list provided by the prosecution.
Oh and by the way this is in America and supported by at least 60% with your tax dollars

Lastly, USADA has never lost a prosecution over drugs in sport. They are either that good or have stacked the cards against the athletes.
Just my opinion.


:rofl:

Criminal court and the USADA are very very different arenas. I don't think they have the power to have Lance put into jail.

cscsguy1
01-17-2013, 13:19
:rofl:

Criminal court and the USADA are very very different arenas. I don't think they have the power to have Lance put into jail.

Right of course they don't. Point is USADA is stacked against the athlete guilty or innocent. The athletes have virtually no rights when accused. This is in America and funded in part by our tax $$$.
The fact that USADA has lost only one case ( if my memory is correct) in the last 10+ years tells me they are either that good or they have built the system to help them win!

Just sayin

Lampshade
01-18-2013, 09:43
I say make 'doping' legal. It will make all racers equal. It's not like steroids with well known serious side effects.

Lance has admitted to taking testosterone as well as EPO.

Well I'll be!

:rofl:

fnfalman
01-18-2013, 10:05
Lance has admitted to taking testosterone as well as EPO.

Well I'll be!

:rofl:

He got seven yellow jerseys. How many you and the other losers got?:rofl:

Lampshade
01-18-2013, 10:14
He got seven yellow jerseys. How many you and the other losers got?:rofl:

I think you've misunderstood.

The fact that he doped doesn't take away from his achievement at all in my eyes. I was never under the silly belief that these guys don't dope to begin with.

I just think its funny all the people that defended him so strongly whilst not having a clue about the subject matter on which they speak.

Between this and your post in the other thread, you're trying to make this into a "winners and losers" issue. Its not.

Its a "people who understand AAS, physiology, and the sport selection pipeline" and those who don't.

fnfalman
01-18-2013, 10:19
I think you've misunderstood.

The fact that he doped doesn't take away from his achievement at all in my eyes. I was never under the silly belief that these guys don't dope to begin with.

I just think its funny all the people that defended him so strongly whilst not having a clue about the subject matter on which they speak.

Between this and your post in the other thread, you're trying to make this into a "winners and losers" issue. Its not.

Its a "people who understand AAS, physiology, and the sport selection pipeline" and those who don't.

I defend Lance Armstrong because I hate losers who like to tear down winners. I couldn't give a rat's ass about what constitutes PED and what's not.

It's a bunch of dudes wearing tights pedaling bicycles around. They're not saving the world from hunger, they're not bringing world peace, they're not curing AIDS.

Big whoopdeedoo.

Lampshade
01-18-2013, 10:22
I defend Lance Armstrong because I hate losers who like to tear down winners.

Pointing out the honest truth that the top physical performers in highly competitive events are likely on drugs is not tearing them down, its a recognition of reality.

Pretending like they aren't on drugs because of your philosophy regarding winners and losers is your prerogative, but don't pretend like your impotent defense has an impact on anyone who actually knows what they're talking about.

I doubt Ronnie Coleman has ever failed a drug test but we all know what's what.

fnfalman
01-18-2013, 10:24
Pointing out the honest truth that the top physical performers in highly competitive events are likely on drugs is not tearing them down, its a recognition of reality.

If everybody does it, then what's the problem?

Pretending like they aren't on drugs because of your philosophy regarding winners and losers is your prerogative, but don't pretend like your impotent defense has an impact on anyone who actually knows what they're talking about.

Who gives a damn about "those who knows what they're talking about"? If they did then Armstrong would have been proven a doper a long time ago. They had over a decade to do it. Apparently they "didn't know what they were talking about".

Lampshade
01-18-2013, 10:25
If everybody does it, then what's the problem?

Again, I never said I had a problem with it.

I said people who thought he was drug free were stupid or ignorant.

You really need to learn to read what's being posted and not fill in so much with your own narrative.

fnfalman
01-18-2013, 10:26
Live Strong!!!

Lance 4ever!!!

America!!!

686Owner
01-18-2013, 10:32
Again, I never said I had a problem with it.

I said people who thought he was drug free were stupid or ignorant.

You really need to learn to read what's being posted and not fill in so much with your own narrative.

OK, he was on drugs. You know drugs better than other people.

Lampshade
01-18-2013, 10:34
OK, he was on drugs. You know drugs better than other people.

Better than some other people, that's for sure.

Just like some folks here know more about guns than other people.

Cali-Glock
01-18-2013, 11:17
He is a liar, cheat and scumbag in both his private and public life. I wish he would just go away.

certifiedfunds
01-18-2013, 11:21
I started injecting epogen yesterday. Ill let y'all know when I reach lances VO2Max.