Trijicon reflex optics [Archive] - Glock Talk

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scccdoc
10-23-2012, 07:04
Anyone have experience with this brand? DOC

scccdoc
10-23-2012, 08:13
Nobody with tritium dot experience?

J.R. Bob Dobbs
10-23-2012, 09:16
I had one and returned it. When in lower light but aiming to higher light, the dot disappeared.

MrMurphy
10-23-2012, 10:09
The Reflex was one of the first viable dot optics, but it's well known in having issues washing out in bright light, or going from dark to bright/bright to dark.

I'd use one if it was issued but I wouldn't buy one. It's still better than an Eotech.

Cole125
10-23-2012, 10:35
I've got a Trijicon reflex 6.5 MOA on my Mossberg 500, and its a great red dot for what it is. Very rugged, very durable, and the fact it never needs batteries and has no on/off switch is the main selling point for me. The dot is bright as hell outdoors even in dim light, but can washout a little indoors but is still usable. For a shotgun this is not a big deal because within 10 yards if you just put the threat in the window of the dot, you will hit him. I would not hesitate to put the 4.5 MOA version on one of my ARs if the price was right.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm245/jcole_08/mossberg500.jpg

lawman800
10-24-2012, 00:13
I got one as a gift... sort of. It is fine for what it was intended for... which is not in super bright light, because it does wash out the triangle a bit.

I have it on the shotgun for a sight that can take the abuse and not worry about the electronics being beat to death.

surf
10-24-2012, 00:44
I have several that are paper weights. In very dark conditions you cannot see any reticle, or anything through the glass period. No shapes, movement, nothing. Dark into light, or dark and turn on a light, the washout that people talk about is 100% real. Optic is only good in ideal or daylight conditions. Most **** happens in less than ideal or low light conditions. Nothing sucks more than getting shot at, a lot and you can't see your optic. Good thing for back up sights. Too bad it takes a life and death incident to get things changed. And yes, we went to EOTech's with no looking back.

lawman800
10-24-2012, 00:47
I have several that are paper weights. In very dark conditions there is no reticle. Dark into light, or dark and turn on a light, the washout that people talk about is 100% real. Nothing sucks more than getting shot at, a lot and you can't see your optic, or anything through the glass period in dark conditions. Good thing for back up sights. Too bad it takes a life and death incident to get things changed. And yes, we went to EOTech's, no looking back.

Care to give away some paper weights?:whistling:

surf
10-24-2012, 00:56
Care to give away some paper weights?:whistling:Even if I could, which I cannot, my own integrity would not allow me to give them out knowing the issues that go along with them.

lawman800
10-24-2012, 00:57
Even if I could, which I cannot, my own integrity would not allow me to give them out knowing the issues that go along with them.

Not even as paperweights?:whistling:

surf
10-24-2012, 01:16
Not even as paperweights?:whistling:Nope, sorry. I guess negative opinions are easily formulated about items that almost get ya killed. After getting replacement optics with all the documented problems associated with the Reflex, some geniuses wanted to reissue them to other units. I about flipped my lid and refused. I just can't trash em because technically they are not mine and need to be accounted for. So they will remain paper weights. Sorry.

lawman800
10-24-2012, 08:21
Nope, sorry. I guess negative opinions are easily formulated about items that almost get ya killed. After getting replacement optics with all the documented problems associated with the Reflex, some geniuses wanted to reissue them to other units. I about flipped my lid and refused. I just can't trash em because technically they are not mine and need to be accounted for. So they will remain paper weights. Sorry.

I hear ya. Just giving you a hard time.:supergrin:

Cole125
10-24-2012, 14:09
Even if I could, which I cannot, my own integrity would not allow me to give them out knowing the issues that go along with them.

They aren't that bad. :dunno: Yes a Aimpoint or EoTech is a better choice for a serious use rifle, but Trijicon Reflex sights are perfectly fine for a range fun gun/blaster or hunting shotgun.

The Pirate
10-24-2012, 19:09
I've had a tri-power for a long time and couldn't be happier. It's never let me down, but I do kick on the battery when I'm using it in the dark.


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lawman800
10-24-2012, 20:34
I've had a tri-power for a long time and couldn't be happier. It's never let me down, but I do kick on the battery when I'm using it in the dark.


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The TriPower is an awesome sight. A little bit more costly than the Reflex though.

surf
10-25-2012, 01:45
They aren't that bad. :dunno: Yes a Aimpoint or EoTech is a better choice for a serious use rifle, but Trijicon Reflex sights are perfectly fine for a range fun gun/blaster or hunting shotgun.From my personal experiences they are that bad. If he had asked about a range optic, my response might not have been as critical but that was not the question. Not trying to offend anyone, but that is my honest answer to my own personal experiences with the use of this optic that I put up with for 4 years of full time use. I feel fortunate that the straw did not actually break my back or worse. Range weapon, not a problem. You might only miss paper, steel, cans, whatever. But IMO, it has no place on a critical use weapon. Again that is only my experience / opinion.

joecoastie
10-25-2012, 05:47
The shotguns that we use in the Coast Guard have Trijicon Reflex sights on them and I have noticed the same things that Surf has mentioned. Under ideal conditions, such as shooting for qualifications at the range, they are great. Other than that the dot gets washed out very easily and pretty much disappears in total darkness. Its too bad, overall it seems like a pretty rugged sight.

Surf, I find it interesting that you switched to EOtechs since it seems like a lot of people make it sound like they'll break if you look at them wrong. What has been your experience with their durability?

Cole125
10-25-2012, 11:36
The shotguns that we use in the Coast Guard have Trijicon Reflex sights on them and I have noticed the same things that Surf has mentioned.

That is the main reason I bought a Trijicon reflex for my Mossberg 500, I've seen USCG guys with the setup and I thought it was a good optic choice for a shotgun. Your correct under ideal conditions its nice, and it is a rugged little sight. The washout issues are real and theres no denying that.

I've got a older Aimpoint lying around I am going to run on my Mossberg and see how I do with the smaller dot, Aimpoints are a night and day difference in low light.

As far as EoTechs on shotguns, they are too high to be comfortable/usable. I've got a 512 I've tried on my Mossberg and you have to lift your head off the stock to see it, they are designed for a flattop AR. For shotgun use, I think Aimpoint is best because you can get really low rings for them. A Pro without a the spacer on the mount would be a good option.

The Pirate
10-25-2012, 16:28
The TriPower is an awesome sight. A little bit more costly than the Reflex though.

So far, it's been worth the money though. I don't think they get the credit they deserve from most people. It's probably a price issue mostly. Aimpoints will do most of the same for less money, but they don't have a cool chevron reticle, haha.


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surf
10-26-2012, 01:28
The shotguns that we use in the Coast Guard have Trijicon Reflex sights on them and I have noticed the same things that Surf has mentioned. Under ideal conditions, such as shooting for qualifications at the range, they are great. Other than that the dot gets washed out very easily and pretty much disappears in total darkness. Its too bad, overall it seems like a pretty rugged sight.

Surf, I find it interesting that you switched to EOtechs since it seems like a lot of people make it sound like they'll break if you look at them wrong. What has been your experience with their durability?Hey Joe, no doubt the Reflex is a tank, but as you note the drawback is obvious and not acceptable for critical use IMO.

As for the EOTech, I was an old school Aimpoint guy and still own a couple, even the uber popular T1 and I do like it a lot. I have also always been clear on which EOTech models are worth a **** and which ones to avoid. The problem is that most of the EOTech naysayers got that negative opinion from the early generations, mostly the 512's, and for good reason. However those people have mostly or generally remained anti-EOTech even though there are much improved and extremely high quality versions on the market now. Many in fact will have little practical experience behind the much improved or newer variants and still hold their bias from a long long time ago.

My working 553 has seen enough hard use and such high round counts where I have gone through 2 barrels and I am still on the same EOTech 5 years later. My EXPS versions haven't had a single hiccup, through many thousands upon thousands of rounds. Even the HITRON guys went to the EO on the Barrett's and have been operating with good success as far as I understand with my interactions with them.

Without getting too engrossed in the EO / Aimpoint argument, I never poo poo Aimpoint and highly recommend their products. There are also many top recognized trainers today (Mike Pannone, Kyle Lamb, Kyle DeFoor, etc just to name a couple) who were former Delta, SEAL etc, who are huge fans of the EOTech. I only mention this because people might give them more recognition then a screen name here at GT. But again there are many who like the Aimpoints. I also like much of Trijicons products. But just like EOTech, I will be the first to call the Reflex a POS, just like I will call the 512's a POS. So everyone has a preference and reasons why they chose certain items. Far be it from me to dictate anything, but like anyone else I do give an opinion when asked. Coke v. Pepsi and still someone will argue that.

joecoastie
10-26-2012, 18:38
Hey Joe, no doubt the Reflex is a tank, but as you note the drawback is obvious and not acceptable for critical use IMO.

As for the EOTech, I was an old school Aimpoint guy and still own a couple, even the uber popular T1 and I do like it a lot. I have also always been clear on which EOTech models are worth a **** and which ones to avoid. The problem is that most of the EOTech naysayers got that negative opinion from the early generations, mostly the 512's, and for good reason. However those people have mostly or generally remained anti-EOTech even though there are much improved and extremely high quality versions on the market now. Many in fact will have little practical experience behind the much improved or newer variants and still hold their bias from a long long time ago.

My working 553 has seen enough hard use and such high round counts where I have gone through 2 barrels and I am still on the same EOTech 5 years later. My EXPS versions haven't had a single hiccup, through many thousands upon thousands of rounds. Even the HITRON guys went to the EO on the Barrett's and have been operating with good success as far as I understand with my interactions with them.

Without getting too engrossed in the EO / Aimpoint argument, I never poo poo Aimpoint and highly recommend their products. There are also many top recognized trainers today (Mike Pannone, Kyle Lamb, Kyle DeFoor, etc just to name a couple) who were former Delta, SEAL etc, who are huge fans of the EOTech. I only mention this because people might give them more recognition then a screen name here at GT. But again there are many who like the Aimpoints. I also like much of Trijicons products. But just like EOTech, I will be the first to call the Reflex a POS, just like I will call the 512's a POS. So everyone has a preference and reasons why they chose certain items. Far be it from me to dictate anything, but like anyone else I do give an opinion when asked. Coke v. Pepsi and still someone will argue that.

Thanks for the info, its nice to get an opinion from someone with actual hands on experience as opposed to people just repeating what they have read on forums. If an Eotech can stand up to a Barrett I would think 5.56 shouldn't be an issue.

Ruggles
10-26-2012, 19:56
I think this looks like a nice sight:

http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product1.php?id=SRS

I went with a Eotech cause I am old and blind and need that big ole 65 recticle!

Cole125
10-26-2012, 20:00
I'll add that the Dual Illuminated Trijicon RMR does MUCH better in low light than the Reflex.

I've got a Dual Illuminated RMR on my G19, and its much better than my Reflex when it comes to washing out.

http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RM04

Cole125
10-26-2012, 20:01
I think this looks like a nice sight:

http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product1.php?id=SRS

I went with a Eotech cause I am old and blind and need that big ole 65 recticle!

That does look nice, if only it were $400 less. :faint:

Ruggles
10-26-2012, 20:08
That does look nice, if only it were $400 less. :faint:

Agreed. Not sure of any real world use of these yet but they sure seem like a nice balance of all current RDS.

MrMurphy
10-26-2012, 23:40
Quite a few high level guys are EoTech fans.

They also get crates of free batteries, and change them on in some cases, a daily basis.

For the majority the Aimpoint works better.

I've used an Eo on a minigun, and it worked just fine, the 65 ring was actually very good in that role. But they can still use improvement.

MakeMineA10mm
11-03-2012, 21:57
Reading between the lines, it seems most of the negative comments about the Trijicon Reflex are coming from folks who:

A) use them in maritime environments, or

B) haven't gotten their tritium capsules replaced.

Regarding the second issue first: if your Reflex reticle is not visible in dark conditions, your tritium is dying/dead. It doesn't last forever. If for serious use, I'd get the capsule replaced every 7 years. Mine is 12 years old and still lights, but it IS very dim. The reason you're still seeing the reticle in the light is the diffuser which is catching enough ambient light to brighten the reticle. If your at this stage, the Reflex is a "daylight use only" optic, which is not good in combat.

Regarding issue "A" - Reflexes in extremely bright light (like at sea, where there is a dearth of shade...), or used over the blue sea (deep blue being the worst possible background color for the orange reticle to contrast with, or used on board vessels when moving between extreme brightness on deck to extreme darkness in passageways, etc., are THE worst possible scenarios for the Reflex.

Let's face it, when Trijicon was designing the Reflex in the early 80's, they were thinking about woodland combat against the Soviets in central europe for the Army and Marines. Medium- to dark-green backgrounds in semi-shady (or at least low- to non-glare like from the ocean) environments was the frame of mind of the designers. SEALS shooting from helos were the first to point out the maritime problems. Some other issues were addressed with the Reflex II, and later still an accessory for reducing glare off the shiney plastic window on the front was added when glare turned some troops into bullet magnets.

Overall, if you get the tritium freshened every 7-10 years, and you're not in a nautical situation, the Reflex is a very good sight. Self-adjusting brightness, no batteries, always on, compact size, light weight. The only general criticism I had was it's small window, but once I sprung for the ARMS mount, it positioned the reflex perfect for my stock weld. I keep one on my 300 Whisper, because the 12.5 MOA triangle lets me shoot accurately at CQB (whole triangle), @100m (using top tip of triangle), & @150m (using bottom center of triangle). I also live in the center of the country, where "in the field" would mean woods, not coastal or maritime environments.

FullClip
11-04-2012, 09:06
I have 2 Reflexes, and like others have said, while the idea behind them was good, the execution wasn't the greatest, and yes, they do wear out. I have a 2X Trijicon ACOG on a Colt H-Bar that is the best sight I've had, but they have doubled in price since I bought mine...good...but wicked expensive.

I've picked up an Aimpoint for my S&W 15T and think that they will be the replacemnts for the reflexes...more bulky, but they work 100% of the time.
Bottom line is I don't think the Reflex should be your first choice for a sighting system.

Made in Austria
11-04-2012, 09:15
The Reflex was one of the first viable dot optics, but it's well known in having issues washing out in bright light, or going from dark to bright/bright to dark.

I'd use one if it was issued but I wouldn't buy one. It's still better than an Eotech.


I am just curious, why is it better than an EOTech?

WoodenPlank
11-04-2012, 09:24
I am just curious, why is it better than an EOTech?

Durability and battery life. The expected battery life of most EO Techs is 300-500 hours of use. An Aimpoint M2's battery life is approx. 15 MONTHS of constant-on time at brightness setting 7 (of 9). MY M2 averages closer to 18 months at that same setting, and is never turned off. The M3, M4, PRO and Micro all have even longer battery lifespans - over 8 years in the case of the M4.

I used to spend a lot of time in military warehouses, and I saw far more ruined or failed EO Techs in the "to be destroyed" and "to be repaired/RMA" bins than I did Aimpoints.

MakeMineA10mm
11-04-2012, 09:45
It's probably just me, but I can't stand how big and blocky the EOTechs are either. They hang over the edges of the receiver and catch on edges, web-gear, etc. And their heavier. I love their reticle options and the field of view, but I prefer the compact sights much better...

Made in Austria
11-04-2012, 09:48
Durability and battery life. The expected battery life of most EO Techs is 300-500 hours of use. An Aimpoint M2's battery life is approx. 15 MONTHS of constant-on time at brightness setting 7 (of 9). MY M2 averages closer to 18 months at that same setting, and is never turned off. The M3, M4, PRO and Micro all have even longer battery lifespans - over 8 years in the case of the M4.

I used to spend a lot of time in military warehouses, and I saw far more ruined or failed EO Techs in the "to be destroyed" and "to be repaired/RMA" bins than I did Aimpoints.


Some good points. I am looking for a nice optic right now. I think I go ahead and order a EOTech XPS2 along with some 123A lithium batts which have a shelf life of about 11 years or more. I also have a rechargeable 123A battery.

Durability and battery life don't bother me. The battery is changed out in about one minute? The holo image starts to blink early enough to indicate that it's time to change the battery. Durability, the EOTech is durable enough for me. I don't need a bomb proof sight. Hell, they all give up the ghost someday. I also believe that an EOTech behaves better in low and bright light conditions.

MrMurphy
11-04-2012, 11:00
A one minute battery change is about 58 seconds too long when everything goes to hell.

Having had a Surefire die on me during an entry (my fault, but Cr123's go from good to dead with little warning), I speak from experience.

Not all Eo's give you the warning blink. A lot simply fail to turn on when the button is hit. Repeatedly. Had a cop who had his Eo die three times in a row upon activation, with three sets of new batteries......on three different callouts in two days.

He got an ML3. And he's far from the first.

Eo's can work, and work well, but a large majority of them have issues. The XPS seems to have solved some, but the battery life is still far under what it says it is. If I was issued a Reflex, I know the washout issues, and I could live with it if I had to by centering the target in the window and firing if necessary. But the reticle 'is' there, all the time, and once through the light bleed, it'll come back.

WoodenPlank
11-04-2012, 11:17
Some good points. I am looking for a nice optic right now. I think I go ahead and order a EOTech XPS2 along with some 123A lithium batts which have a shelf life of about 11 years or more. I also have a rechargeable 123A battery.

Durability and battery life don't bother me. The battery is changed out in about one minute? The holo image starts to blink early enough to indicate that it's time to change the battery. Durability, the EOTech is durable enough for me. I don't need a bomb proof sight. Hell, they all give up the ghost someday. I also believe that an EOTech behaves better in low and bright light conditions.

I'd skip the rechargable in the EO Tech, unless someone has seen an official statement from L3 on them. Surefire specifically says that the rechargable 123s they are offering have a power spike when they first start powering a device, and that spike can damage the bulb of incandescent lights. I don't know if an EO Tech can handle that power spike safely or not.

Made in Austria
11-04-2012, 12:35
I doubt that a 123A rechargeable delivers voltage spikes on power up since they are either NiMH or Li-lon batteries. NiMH and Li-lon batteries nominal voltage is about 0.1-0.2 Volt lower than the nominal voltage from a alkaline. NiMH and Li-lon batteries never spike more than 0.2 Volt over their nominal voltage. Older nickel-cadmium batteries are known to be about 0.5-0.9 (depending on battery age, temperatures, and other factors) Volt over their nominal voltage when freshly charged, but have never seen a nickel-cadmium 123A batt.

Nickel-cadmium's are always trying to push out all the voltage they have as fast as possible, while NiMH and Li-lon batteries are way calmer and are trying to deliver a stable voltage from freshly charged till empty. I am 100% sure that a NiMH or Li-lion rechargeable will do no damage in any device. Maybe a nickel-cadmium battery, and than only devices which use rather conventional bulbs, if that. It takes a lot more to kill a laser diode in an EOTech. EOTech says nothing in their manual about not using rechargeables.

lawman800
11-04-2012, 12:42
I love my EOTech, but it's not a good feeling to guess whether the power source will be there when you need it. I know you check it everytime you use it, but if you are out on something for a few hours, or don't have spares on you, and it goes out, you will be cursing a lot.

I like the TriPower for that reason... it is a nice sight.

Made in Austria
11-04-2012, 12:47
I'll just wrap some in bubble plastic foil and put in the grip, or in the spare battery tube of my Magpul ACS Stock.

WoodenPlank
11-04-2012, 13:31
I doubt that a 123A rechargeable delivers voltage spikes on power up since they are either NiMH or Li-lon batteries. NiMH and Li-lon batteries nominal voltage is about 0.1-0.2 Volt lower than the nominal voltage from a alkaline. NiMH and Li-lon batteries never spike more than 0.2 Volt over their nominal voltage. Older nickel-cadmium batteries are known to be about 0.5-0.9 (depending on battery age, temperatures, and other factors) Volt over their nominal voltage when freshly charged, but have never seen a nickel-cadmium 123A batt.

Nickel-cadmium's are always trying to push out all the voltage they have as fast as possible, while NiMH and Li-lon batteries are way calmer and are trying to deliver a stable voltage from freshly charged till empty. I am 100% sure that a NiMH or Li-lion rechargeable will do no damage in any device. Maybe a nickel-cadmium battery, and than only devices which use rather conventional bulbs, if that. It takes a lot more to kill a laser diode in an EOTech. EOTech says nothing in their manual about not using rechargeables.

The Surefire brand ones are Lithium-phosphate, and Surefire has this notice on the product page for them:

Rechargeable LFP 123A batteries are only to be used to power LED illumination products (built to use 123A lithium batteries) and NOT those featuring incandescent lamps. The initial elevated voltage of these rechargeable batteries, immediately after charging, may cause the filament contained within an incandescent lamp to break or “burn out."

Link here (http://www.surefire.com/batteries/2-pack-lfp123-rechargeable-batteries.html).

The rechargables also only last about half as long per charge as a set of disposables, so that shorter EO Tech battery life just got even shorter.

Made in Austria
11-04-2012, 17:58
The EOTech is not a picky eater. Thats one small reason why I ordered an EOTech today. I prefer NiMH, Li-lon, Li-fe and Li-po's. The Lithium-phosphate's are nice but their capacity is limited. That's why they don't last very long.

I Think all optics in this price class are good. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. I just prefer an EOTech.

surf
11-04-2012, 20:52
Our 65 Reflex sights had washout issues since new. It had nothing to do with needing a recharge. The washout of the reticle wasn't the only big issue, but as I mentioned earlier in dark conditions you couldn't see anything through the glass, no front sight nothing, so using the optic as a large ghost ring wasn't possible. And no, this was not with the diffuser mounted which made it worse. White light is not always your friend and you need to be able to see something when on gun. Again the straw that broke the camels back and got the bean counters to allow us to purchase new optics was an actual incident where we took A LOT of fire, before finally wrenching off the thumbscrews and dumping the optic to be able to see the front and rear sights to end the problem. Sorry if I hate something that could have got some of the good guys killed.

LA_357SIG
11-04-2012, 21:07
Our 65 Reflex sights had washout issues since new. It had nothing to do with needing a recharge. The washout of the reticle wasn't the only big issue, but as I mentioned earlier in dark conditions you couldn't see anything through the glass, no front sight nothing, so using the optic as a large ghost ring wasn't possible. And no, this was not with the diffuser mounted which made it worse.

I agree. I had the earlier Reflex sight and aside from the horrible blue tint, the low tritium glow indoors with dim ambient light (almost completely dark conditions the dot was visible, but could not see anything through the blue tint) and the bloom effect in bright sunlight made the Reflex a no-go for me.

I would like to see one with an etched reticle or reference point and a clear (or less blue) lens.

lawman800
11-05-2012, 08:15
Where do you get the tritium refreshed?

fnfalman
11-05-2012, 08:25
Where do you get the tritium refreshed?

The manufacturer?