iPad Mini! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 12:28
Wow. Just what I've been waiting for. 7.2mm thick, .68lb, 10 hour battery life, 7.9" display, 1080p vid, A5 chip, 4GLTE

Definite pre-order!

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 12:33
New iMac is stunning

sputnik767
10-23-2012, 12:44
Wow. Just what I've been waiting for. 7.2mm thick, .68lb, 10 hour battery life, 7.9" display, 1080p vid, A5 chip, 4GLTE

Definite pre-order!

Rather impressive. The 8" screen is just right for many people in a portable device. I was actually wondering why the only choices thus far have been ~10" or 7". Agree with your analysis of the new imac as well.

sheriff733
10-23-2012, 12:50
Wow. Just what I've been waiting for. 7.2mm thick, .68lb, 10 hour battery life, 7.9" display, 1080p vid, A5 chip, 4GLTE

Definite pre-order!

Probably a silly question, but is it running standard iOS just like the big brother iPad?


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Mr. Niceguy
10-23-2012, 12:58
Enjoy the new mini pad!

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 13:04
Rather impressive. The 8" screen is just right for many people in a portable device. I was actually wondering why the only choices thus far have been ~10" or 7". Agree with your analysis of the new imac as well.

I haven't compared the overall dimensions and weight to the Nexus or Samsung offerings. One thing I noticed is that it doesn't have the large dark border that other mini tablets seem to have, meaning more of it's real estate is usable. So I'm wondring if it is actually bigger.

It is thinner than the iphone 5 and just about twice as heavy.

sbhaven
10-23-2012, 13:11
At $329, $70 more than its compeditors the Kindle Fire HD and Google Nexus 7, some will find it hard to justify the expense. Plus no Retina display.

The real test will be how it compares in hands on real world reviews to the Fire and Nexus 7.

sputnik767
10-23-2012, 13:18
At $329, $70 more than its compeditors the Kindle Fire HD and Google Nexus 7, some will find it hard to justify the expense. Plus no Retina display.

The real test will be how it compares in hands on real world reviews to the Fire and Nexus 7.

The 1080p resolution on an 8" screen probably has a similar pixel pitch to the "retina" display. For the record, Retina display is just a meaningless marketing term. The retina display on the iphone 5 does not even provide a 720p resolution that most other phones in the price range provide, despite the "retina" term. However, it's pixel pitch given the small screen size is still better. And honestly, this tablet is giving you the same 1080p resolution in an 8" screen, that most computer monitors provide in a 21" screen. I doubt we even have the technology to match the ipad 3 resolution in the 8" device. Also, the 1080p resolution outclasses both the Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire, but I do believe that Google is in the process of getting another mini tablet with a 1080p screen produced.

tantrix
10-23-2012, 13:22
I already have a mini-iPad...it's called an iPhone. :whistling:

Glock30Eric
10-23-2012, 13:31
27" iMac is so sick! I couldn't wait to order one in December!

roger123
10-23-2012, 13:32
I already have a mini-iPad...it's called an iPhone. :whistling:

Yea, I'll have to see what it looks like. I have an iPad and iPhone, not sure why I need the mini? I tried my friends Kindle and it just seemed too small for surfing, good for reading and watching a movie but seemed too small for serious web browsing. I have become an Apple fanboy over the last several years though so I guess it's another opportunity to drop some bucks.

sbhaven
10-23-2012, 13:57
The 1080p resolution on an 8" screen probably has a similar pixel pitch to the "retina" display. For the record, Retina display is just a meaningless marketing term. The retina display on the iphone 5 does not even provide a 720p resolution that most other phones in the price range provide, despite the "retina" term. However, it's pixel pitch given the small screen size is still better. And honestly, this tablet is giving you the same 1080p resolution in an 8" screen, that most computer monitors provide in a 21" screen. I doubt we even have the technology to match the ipad 3 resolution in the 8" device. Also, the 1080p resolution outclasses both the Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire, but I do believe that Google is in the process of getting another mini tablet with a 1080p screen produced.
It remains to be seen if the display image quality will outclass it's competitors. The big difference, screen wise, is the fact that the Mini has a slightly larger (diagonal) screen than it's competitors which gives it roughly 35% more screen space.

Apple iPad Mini: 7.9-inch IPS display at 1024x768 (4:3 aspect ratio), Pixel Per Inch (PPI) density of 162.
Google Nexus 7: 7-inch (IPS) display at 1280x800 resolution, 16:10 aspect ratio, Pixel Per Inch (PPI) density of 216.
Kindle Fire HD: 7-inch IPS, 1,280x800 pixels (216 ppi), 16:10 aspect ratio.

One obvious question is, will people be able to tell the difference between 720p encoded movies and 1080p encoded movies on these smaller 7 inch tablets?
:dunno:

tantrix
10-23-2012, 13:58
Yea, I'll have to see what it looks like. I have an iPad and iPhone, not sure why I need the mini? I tried my friends Kindle and it just seemed too small for surfing, good for reading and watching a movie but seemed too small for serious web browsing. I have become an Apple fanboy over the last several years though so I guess it's another opportunity to drop some bucks.

My iPad is about the smallest thing I can stand to do anything on. I use my iPhone for phonecalls and txts only...doing anything else on it is pure torture looking at that tiny screen.

As far as the iPad goes, I'd be far happier if it was 2" larger...but it seems Apple is more worried about going the other direction.

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 14:45
Amazing. Apple launches what is clearly, today, a best-in-class device and some of you still aren't happy. :rofl: $70 price difference to justify? Seriously? That person probably has more pressing things to do with money than buy a tablet......

Say you hat iOS or iTunes or lack of file architecture....whatever. But this is a NICE mini tab.

Personally this trims over a pound out of my bag.

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 14:45
My iPad is about the smallest thing I can stand to do anything on. I use my iPhone for phonecalls and txts only...doing anything else on it is pure torture looking at that tiny screen.

As far as the iPad goes, I'd be far happier if it was 2" larger...but it seems Apple is more worried about going the other direction.

Bigger iPad?

Go eat your hogs head cheese

:supergrin:

sbhaven
10-23-2012, 15:02
Amazing. Apple launches what is clearly, today, a best-in-class device and some of you still aren't happy. :rofl: $70 price difference to justify? Seriously? That person probably has more pressing things to do with money than buy a tablet......

Say you hat iOS or iTunes or lack of file architecture....whatever. But this is a NICE mini tab.

Personally this trims over a pound out of my bag.
Every one's entitled to their opinions... Not everyone is an Apple fanboy... :winkie:

Best in class remains to be seen. On paper it looks impressive, but until there are hands on reviews there is no way to know if it really beats other 7 inch tablets. Or what weaknesses and bugs it may have. Not to mention that in six months, someone else will release a 7-8 inch tablet that will probably have better specs than the Apple Mini.

Gatta love the fact that Apple has a built in core of followers (more than a few who are ironically Occupy Wall Street Protesters) who will stand in line for hours to spend piles of cash to buy anything that Apple releases to the market. :supergrin:

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 15:05
Every one's entitled to their opinions... Not everyone is an Apple fanboy... :winkie:

Best in class remains to be seen. On paper it looks impressive, but until there are hands on reviews there is no way to know if it really beats other 7 inch tablets. Or what weaknesses and bugs it may have. Not to mention that in six months, someone else will release a 7-8 inch tablet that will probably have better specs than the Apple Mini.

Gatta love the fact that Apple has a built in core of followers (more than a few who are ironically Occupy Wall Street Protesters) who will stand in line for hours to spend piles of cash to buy anything that Apple releases to the market. :supergrin:

Funny thing is I've been shopping mini tabs lately. I just couldn't get past the "cheap" in them all. What apple just released is exactly what I was hoping they would. Had it been released by Samsung I would've bought it.

ryanm
10-23-2012, 15:12
New iMac is stunning

That it is! I just have no need for one.

I was waiting to see the new 13 MBP retina... but I think I'm going to proceed with the 13" MBA now. Price difference is still going to be a bit much.

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 15:12
That it is! I just have no need for one.

I was waiting to see the new 13 MBP retina... but I think I'm going to proceed with the 13" MBA now. Price difference is still going to be a bit much.

$3200 fully loaded! :shocked:

ryanm
10-23-2012, 15:16
$3200 fully loaded! :shocked:

Yeah. With the configs I'm looking at... I think I can live with the 8GB of ram and 256GB flash drive. To save 700-1000 in difference. I think I'll start taking this to meetings instead of my ThinkPad. That should get some strange looks.

sbhaven
10-23-2012, 15:17
Funny thing is I've been shopping mini tabs lately. I just couldn't get past the "cheap" in them all. What apple just released is exactly what I was hoping they would. Had it been released by Samsung I would've bought it.
Good for you. :supergrin: Me, I bought a Nexus 7 back in July because I got tired of waiting for the next "big thing", got tired of waiting for the next "iPad killer", got tired of waiting for Apple to release a tablet in the 7 inch range.

For what I use the Nexus 7 for, the $70 additional price of the Mini makes it overkill for my needs. What I really wanted and was waiting for was the Asus Memo 370T. But unfortunately Asus didn't release it, then Google had Asus neuter it to make the Nexus 7. :crying:

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 15:20
Yeah. With the configs I'm looking at... I think I can live with the 8GB of ram and 256GB flash drive. To save 700-1000 in difference. I think I'll start taking this to meetings instead of my ThinkPad. That should get some strange looks.

Don't rule out the Air then. My MBA11 has become my primary bidness machine. The dell boat anchor stays at home, unused.

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 15:21
Good for you. :supergrin: Me, I bought a Nexus 7 back in July because I got tired of waiting for the next "big thing", got tired of waiting for the next "iPad killer", got tired of waiting for Apple to release a tablet in the 7 inch range.

For what I use the Nexus 7 for, the $70 additional price of the Mini makes it overkill for my needs. What I really wanted and was waiting for was the Asus Memo 370T. But unfortunately Asus didn't release it, then Google had Asus neuter it to make the Nexus 7. :crying:

I very, very nearly did the same but with the minipad being so close I held off to see what it was about.

ryanm
10-23-2012, 15:31
Don't rule out the Air then. My MBA11 has become my primary bidness machine. The dell boat anchor stays at home, unused.

I've tried the 11" air in the store... I just can't see using it that often. It seems too small to be useful.
I can't make myself buy one just to try it out!

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 15:34
I've tried the 11" air in the store... I just can't see using it that often. It seems too small to be useful.
I can't make myself buy one just to try it out!

Well they also make a 13....

I thought the same but now my 15 pro collects dust too.

G19Tony
10-23-2012, 15:37
I'll be getting one. It will work much better in the Cherokee. :cool:

itstime
10-23-2012, 15:50
Looks interesting indeed. Just saw the ad for it.

NMGlocker
10-23-2012, 15:58
The 7" iPad is a bust for me.
I already own a Nexus 7 and a Galaxy Tab2 7".
The specs just don't justify the $130 price difference, especially on a "disposable" item like a tablet.
A Galaxy Tab2 7" is $199, $329 for a iPad 7" just cannot be justified IMO, especially when tablets are on a 6 month or faster hardware update cycle right now.

I'm far from a Apple hater, I currently have a iPad2, iPhone 4S, MacBook Air 13" and a iMac 21" alongside my 2 Dell 15" Win 7 laptops, Galaxy Tab 10", Tab2 7" and Nexus 7" tablets and a Galaxy S3 phone.

I just recognize a "iFanboi tax" when i see one, and the $130 premium is one.

HerrGlock
10-23-2012, 16:06
Is that for iSpotting?

NeverMore1701
10-23-2012, 16:24
I love my iPhone, and love my iPad, but wouldn't see the use for a mini iPad.

michael_b
10-23-2012, 16:24
Probably a silly question, but is it running standard iOS just like the big brother iPad?

Yes, and has the same screen resolution as the iPad 1 & 2.

I love my iPhone, and love my iPad, but wouldn't see the use for a mini iPad.

I'd actually prefer the iPad mini for reading books- it's a great size for that.

-On mobile

OrangeJoe
10-23-2012, 17:30
Yes, and has the same screen resolution as the iPad 1 & 2.



I'd actually prefer the iPad mini for reading books- it's a great size for that.

-On mobile

It is disappointing that it has a much lower resolution than it's Android competitors. Since I already have the original mimi ipad (ipod touch 4) it's hard to justify getting it over the Nexus 7 or even the Fire HD.

PuroMexicano
10-23-2012, 18:15
Some apple superfans would buy this iPad mini after having an iPhone and an iPad.
Hell, they'd buy an iPad MAX if it comes in the market. :rofl:

I will stick with my iPhone4S and mi iPad2 for a while...

Ruggles
10-23-2012, 18:18
The mini iPad will get the attention but that new iMac is bad***** :) Long way from the IIe indeed. Not in the market for either a new iPad or iMac but a new MacBook is sure appealing...

sputnik767
10-23-2012, 18:21
It remains to be seen if the display image quality will outclass it's competitors. The big difference, screen wise, is the fact that the Mini has a slightly larger (diagonal) screen than it's competitors which gives it roughly 35% more screen space.

Apple iPad Mini: 7.9-inch IPS display at 1024x768 (4:3 aspect ratio), Pixel Per Inch (PPI) density of 162.
Google Nexus 7: 7-inch (IPS) display at 1280x800 resolution, 16:10 aspect ratio, Pixel Per Inch (PPI) density of 216.
Kindle Fire HD: 7-inch IPS, 1,280x800 pixels (216 ppi), 16:10 aspect ratio.

One obvious question is, will people be able to tell the difference between 720p encoded movies and 1080p encoded movies on these smaller 7 inch tablets?
:dunno:

Wait, if it is 1024x768, then it is not 1080p. It's not even 720p. The 4.8" screen of my galaxy s3 has a better resolution. I was under the impression from reading the posts here that was 1080p. This makes me much less impressed.

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 18:23
Wait, if it is 1024x768, then it is not 1080p. It's not even 720p. The 4.8" screen of my galaxy s3 has a better resolution. I was under the impression from reading the posts here that was 1080p. This makes me much less impressed.

1080p video

sputnik767
10-23-2012, 19:20
1080p video

So it is able to play 1080p video? It actually doesn't take much processing power to do so. Phones from a year or 2 ago can do it. But most importantly, what's the point of advertising something that your display can't physically show? My tablet has a quad core CPU and can certainly display 1080p video without issues, but it will output it to a 720p display. Unless we are talking about using the HDMI-out or whatever Apple's version of it is to display it to a TV? But again, just the ability to output 1080p video is not something that sets anything apart. I was under the impression that this tablet had a 1080p display, which would have actually set it apart, but this tablet really offers nothing beyond the competition except being an inch larger and considerably more expensive. Most importantly, being an Apple device, it will only play a very limited number of file format, which is a considerable hindrance when you have a media consumption device. All of the videos I make are in .mkv format for example, which play fine on Android with the right player app (VLC for example). Basically, this ipad mini just reminded me why I stick with Android.

NMGlocker
10-23-2012, 19:32
The Ipad Mini is 1024x768 with 163PPI, and the Nexus 7 is 1280x800 with 216PPI.

IPad Mini has the A5 processor, Nexus 7 has a quad-core Tegra 3 chip. The Tegra benchmarks faster.

Tell me again what that extra $130 (65%) buys you?

:dunno:

DGreno
10-23-2012, 19:42
27" iMac is so sick! I couldn't wait to order one in December!

Yes. There will most likely be one for my wife under the Christmas tree! :wow:

ArtificialGrape
10-23-2012, 19:43
I didn't expect to see it on the price entry that was the target for the Mni, but I would really liked to have seen the retina display on it.

I never was too tempted by the full size iPads, but I'll wait to see these in the stores before I decided.

-ArtificialGrape

Taphius
10-23-2012, 19:49
Ill take my nexus 7 and use the $130 on a point and shoot camera + usb otg flash drive/mem card reader :P

New macbook is pretty nice though.

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 19:57
So it is able to play 1080p video? It actually doesn't take much processing power to do so. Phones from a year or 2 ago can do it. But most importantly, what's the point of advertising something that your display can't physically show? My tablet has a quad core CPU and can certainly display 1080p video without issues, but it will output it to a 720p display. Unless we are talking about using the HDMI-out or whatever Apple's version of it is to display it to a TV? But again, just the ability to output 1080p video is not something that sets anything apart. I was under the impression that this tablet had a 1080p display, which would have actually set it apart, but this tablet really offers nothing beyond the competition except being an inch larger and considerably more expensive. Most importantly, being an Apple device, it will only play a very limited number of file format, which is a considerable hindrance when you have a media consumption device. All of the videos I make are in .mkv format for example, which play fine on Android with the right player app (VLC for example). Basically, this ipad mini just reminded me why I stick with Android.

Shoots 1080p

sputnik767
10-23-2012, 20:00
The Ipad Mini is 1024x768 with 163PPI, and the Nexus 7 is 1280x800 with 216PPI.

IPad Mini has the A5 processor, Nexus 7 has a quad-core Tegra 3 chip. The Tegra benchmarks faster.

Tell me again what that extra $130 (65%) buys you?

:dunno:

I will not buy another device powered by a Tegra anything. I benchmarked my quad-core Tegra 3 tablet running stock Jellybean against my dual-core Galaxy S3 phone running a leaked stock build of Jellybean, and the SoC in the S3 spanked the Tegra 3 in everything except for pure CPU processing (which was still pretty close). Overall, the S3 came out far ahead, blowing it away in memory, I/O, and 3D. This was using th Quadrant Standard app. Using Antutu, the Tegra 3 comes out slightly ahead, but again, it has 4 cores to the 2 in the S3. Very poor showing overall by the Tegra 3, and I am not surprised that it is not being used extensively. Wait for a tablet powered by a Samsung quad-core chip if you want one, but pass on the Tegra SoC. If I post up a screenshot of it, it's pretty sad.

sputnik767
10-23-2012, 20:02
Shoots 1080p

Just like my current Galaxy S3, my previous Galaxy S2 which is a year old now, my tablet which is a year old now, and I am sure the iPhone 4S which is also a year old now.

Taphius
10-23-2012, 20:03
I will not buy another device powered by a Tegra anything. I benchmarked my quad-core Tegra 3 tablet running stock Jellybean against my dual-core Galaxy S3 phone running a leaked stock build of Jellybean, and the SoC in the S3 spanked the Tegra 3 in everything except for pure CPU processing. Overall, the S3 came out far ahead, blowing it away in memory, I/O, and 3D. This was using th Quadrant Standard app. Using Antutu, the Tegra 3 comes out slightly ahead, but again, it has 4 cores to the 2 in the S3. Very poor showing overall by the Tegra 3, and I am not surprised that it is not being used extensively. Wait for a tablet powered by a Samsung quad-core chip if you want one, but pass on the Tegra SoC.

Nvidia seems to like to be the first one out for a type of chip, but they always fall way behind the pack...tegra 2 was pretty bad, same with the tegra 3.

ChuteTheMall
10-23-2012, 20:09
Is that for iSpotting?

No, that's the maxiPad.

sheriff733
10-23-2012, 20:34
No, that's the maxiPad.

We have a winner.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

.264 magnum
10-23-2012, 21:41
OK ladies,

1. The iPad mini is really thin and light. A "retina" display would require a much larger battery yielding thin and light a no go.

2. Unless ones eyes will peer into the screen from an inch or two away a "retina" display, or any seriously hi-rez screen, does not offer enough upside to justify the costs - price and the battery size problem again.

3. It looks like a winner to me. I'm going to snag one in a few days.

certifiedfunds
10-23-2012, 21:48
OK ladies,

1. The iPad mini is really thin and light. A "retina" display would require a much larger battery yielding thin and light a no go.

2. Unless ones eyes will peer into the screen from an inch or two away a "retina" display, or any seriously hi-rez screen, does not offer enough upside to justify the costs - price and the battery size problem again.

3. It looks like a winner to me. I'm going to snag one in a few days.

This. Plus it doesn't look and feel cheap, like the droid options out there with thick black borders around the edge of the screen. Its a nice device. Thinner than my iP5 and only about twice the weight.

Sput - I was pecking out short phone replies earlier while I was involved with some things. When I posted 1080p upthread you apparently confused it with display. It was just one of the specs I pulled off of Apple's site at first glance.

686Owner
10-23-2012, 22:32
Tell me again what that extra $130 (65%) buys you?

:dunno:

Debugging so it doesn't crash?

33% larger screen?

Battery life?

Something other than plastic?

Product support in 6 months after 7 other Android tablets have been released?

:)

brisk21
10-23-2012, 22:42
7" tablets aren't a big enough jump up from my 4.8" screen on my Galaxy S3. I may go get a 10" tablet. Maybe.

Drain You
10-23-2012, 22:52
I'm tempted. Still waiting to see how the Nexus 7 line progresses. Revealing the same tablet with wifi is just not going to impress me.

ViennaGambit
10-23-2012, 23:05
Waiting for the Google announcements in a few days... Nexus 10 sounds promising.

Mini initially seems overpriced for the older Ipad 2 era tech... $299 would have sealed the deal. I know it will still sell well.

We are all blessed that these are the types of problems we ponder.

captainstormy
10-23-2012, 23:10
I'm tempted. Still waiting to see how the Nexus 7 line progresses. Revealing the same tablet with wifi is just not going to impress me.

I'm hoping for one. I'm with you that a 7" screen isn't a big enough jump and you IMO the nexus devices are the best way to use android.

Pure android and constant long time updates.


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

ryanm
10-24-2012, 07:00
I didn't expect to see it on the price entry that was the target for the Mni, but I would really liked to have seen the retina display on it.

I never was too tempted by the full size iPads, but I'll wait to see these in the stores before I decided.

-ArtificialGrape

I'm amazed at how much I use my iPad. I resisted for a long time, until I borrowed an iPad1 from work for a few projects. A few weeks later I had my own iPad3. I'd give up my laptop before getting rid of my Verizon iPad now. I use it 10x more often now.

Deanster
10-24-2012, 08:34
As David Pogue of the NYT says in today's review of Surface tablets:

"Otherwise, though, Windows RT canít run any of the four million regular Windows programs. Or the 275,000 iPad apps. Or the 17 Android tablet apps. (Thatís a joke! There are actually 19 Android tablet apps.)"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/technology/personaltech/microsoft-unveils-the-surface-its-first-tablet-review.html?ref=technology&_r=0

michael_b
10-24-2012, 08:52
It is disappointing that it has a much lower resolution than it's Android competitors. Since I already have the original mimi ipad (ipod touch 4) it's hard to justify getting it over the Nexus 7 or even the Fire HD.

Yes, that disappointed me too and the base model being priced at least $30 too high.

But when I compare the user experience on my first gen iPad to my Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7"- I'd take iOS over it any day. Typing is a chore on a 7"- Jobs was right about that. I finally downloaded Swiftkey and that made a big difference.

It's not a bad device at all, I just prefer the user experience on Apples mobile devices.

I'd like to see a mini in person and get a hands on feel for it.

Kindle Fires are a no go for me. I don't like their implementation of Android(or Barnes and Nobles implementation on the Nooks). I also don't like the fact that Amazon doesn't support ePub e-book format.


As David Pogue of the NYT says in today's review of Surface tablets:

"Otherwise, though, Windows RT can’t run any of the four million regular Windows programs. Or the 275,000 iPad apps. Or the 17 Android tablet apps. (That’s a joke! There are actually 19 Android tablet apps.)"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/technology/personaltech/microsoft-unveils-the-surface-its-first-tablet-review.html?ref=technology&_r=0

That is true, Windows RT is built on the ARM architecture so legacy apps won't run. You have to wait for Windows Surface Pro which runs Windows 8 on Intel architecture.

-On mobile

686Owner
10-24-2012, 09:23
I actually have to agree about the price though. I was hoping for $250 and expecting $300.

I like the form factor of the 7" for reading. The 10" is too big to take places.

686Owner
10-24-2012, 09:24
I'm hoping for one. I'm with you that a 7" screen isn't a big enough jump and you IMO the nexus devices are the best way to use android.

Pure android and constant long time updates.


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

The iPad mini is 7.9" on the diagonal. That equates to a screen that is 1/3 bigger than the 7" tablets.

Bilbo Bagins
10-24-2012, 09:49
I actually have to agree about the price though. I was hoping for $250 and expecting $300.

I like the form factor of the 7" for reading. The 10" is too big to take places.

+1

Sell it for the mid to high $200's and most kids with ipod touches, and housewifes with eReader tablets would make the switch. There is way too much competition in the 7" tablet market for Apple to price it that high. Bone head move.

Then again the Apple lemmings will buy anything new.

All they did was reduced the size of the Ipad original and charge the same price.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 09:53
+1

Sell it for the mid to high $200's and most kids with ipod touches, and housewifes with eReader tablets would make the switch. There is way too much competition in the 7" tablet market for Apple to price it that high. Bone head move.

Then again the Apple lemmings will buy anything new.

All they did was reduced the size of the Ipad original and charge the same price.

Why on earth would they want to cannibalize the iPod business?

Diesel McBadass
10-24-2012, 09:55
IPAD mini= Iphone large, minus capability to make calls.....

michael_b
10-24-2012, 10:06
All they did was reduced the size of the Ipad original and charge the same price.

Actually the iPad 2. My question is why still sell the iPad 2? Now there's only two devices left that Apple sells that use the older 30 pin dock connector- the iPad 2 and the iPod touch 4th gen.

They are getting way too many SKUs now too. There's device creep starting.




-On mobile

sbhaven
10-24-2012, 10:20
They are getting way too many SKUs now too. There's device creep starting.

Actually it's a smart move by Apple. They know damn well they have a built in sales stream to a rather large group of consumers who will buy anything Apple hypes up and then releases to market. Change the charging/docking cable? They will gladly pay to buy new cables and docking stations/devices. Put out a smaller iPad 2 tablet when you release the iPad 4? They will rave about it and line up to buy BOTH of them.

It's pure win for Apple and companies that make Apple products. :supergrin:

G29Reload
10-24-2012, 10:33
Im on the fence may sell my 2 and go mini

Or just sell my 2.

Collects a. Bit of dust

tantrix
10-24-2012, 11:15
Here's the non-biased truth about Apple:

Apple makes some good devices, but their marketing is better than their product.


Actually it's a smart move by Apple. They know damn well they have a built in sales stream to a rather large group of consumers who will buy anything Apple hypes up and then releases to market. Change the charging/docking cable? They will gladly pay to buy new cables and docking stations/devices. Put out a smaller iPad 2 tablet when you release the iPad 4? They will rave about it and line up to buy BOTH of them.

It's pure win for Apple and companies that make Apple products. :supergrin:


Sadly, this has been the case for a long time now. But, it does absolutely no good for us who don't buy Apple toilet paper, Apple toothpaste, Apple soap...you get the picture.

Even though in a normal world there's absolutely no use for a tablet bigger than the iPhone but smaller than the iPad, look at how many people (even here) who are already convinced they need one.

Like I said above, Apple's marketing is genius...convince people they need every new product you release, even if they don't. A sale is a sale.

sbhaven
10-24-2012, 11:41
Even though in a normal world there's absolutely no use for a tablet bigger than the iPhone but smaller than the iPad, look at how many people (even here) who are already convinced they need one.

My first tablet was the Nexus 7. I looked at smart phones (don't have one), looked at iPads, settled on a 7 inch tablet because of its formfactor and function. While I loved the iPad, it's cost (even used) played a factor in my decision not to buy one. It's size was another factor. I wanted something smaller to watch videos on and to read books on. I wanted soemthing that could be put into a shorts or pants cargo pocket. I really wanted the Asus Memo 370T. That was just about the perfect 7 inch tablet, loaded with many features found on larger tablets. Asus didn't release it and Google had Asus strip it down a bit to make the Nexus 7. After six months of using the Nexus 7 I am very happy with the purchase. Use it several hours each day now to check email, read books, or do web surfing. I used it on a plane to watch movies and it was great not to worry about having a larger tablet take over the small tray table space. Plus with the use of an USB-OTG cable + a free app I was able to bring along several SD and microSD cards with additional movies and TV shows ripped to them.

Only problem I had with my Nexus 7 was my own fault for editing a file to tweak the camera to support 720p video recording that then borked the manual updating to JB 4.1.2.

Not everyone will find the need or use for a 7 inch form factor tablet. Many of us do and use them daily.

OctoberRust
10-24-2012, 11:48
Wow. Just what I've been waiting for. 7.2mm thick, .68lb, 10 hour battery life, 7.9" display, 1080p vid, A5 chip, 4GLTE

Definite pre-order!


CF, we all know apple products are for hippies and liberals.

Which one are you? :tongueout:

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 11:56
Here's the non-biased truth about Apple:

Apple makes some good devices, but their marketing is better than their product.





Sadly, this has been the case for a long time now. But, it does absolutely no good for us who don't buy Apple toilet paper, Apple toothpaste, Apple soap...you get the picture.

Even though in a normal world there's absolutely no use for a tablet bigger than the iPhone but smaller than the iPad, look at how many people (even here) who are already convinced they need one.

Like I said above, Apple's marketing is genius...convince people they need every new product you release, even if they don't. A sale is a sale.

Actually, the genius of apples marketing is called the halo effect and it started with the iPod. Has nothing to do with tv ads.







Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 11:57
Here's the non-biased truth about Apple:

Apple makes some good devices, but their marketing is better than their product.





Sadly, this has been the case for a long time now. But, it does absolutely no good for us who don't buy Apple toilet paper, Apple toothpaste, Apple soap...you get the picture.

Even though in a normal world there's absolutely no use for a tablet bigger than the iPhone but smaller than the iPad, look at how many people (even here) who are already convinced they need one.

Like I said above, Apple's marketing is genius...convince people they need every new product you release, even if they don't. A sale is a sale.

Also I fly a lot. Every pound I shave is valuable. That's why I want to move to the mini.



Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 11:58
CF, we all know apple products are for hippies and liberals.

Which one are you? :tongueout:

I'm just a guy who likes quality construction and for his stuff to work well.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

pizza_pablo
10-24-2012, 12:01
What sources are available for ibooks, worth an iPad mini / reg?

For instance, on a Nexus 7, ibooks can be read from Google Play, Nook App or Kindle App.

tantrix
10-24-2012, 12:06
Also I fly a lot. Every pound I shave is valuable. That's why I want to move to the mini.



Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

The iPad 3 is too big? I'd rather kick back on a plane with an iPad 3 than a smaller tablet. Hell, I'd rather kick back on a plane with an iPad 1 than this mini.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 12:09
The iPad 3 is too big? I'd rather kick back on a plane with an iPad 3 than a smaller tablet. Hell, I'd rather kick back on a plane with an iPad 1 than this mini.

Heavy worked myself to the point that I travel with one shoulder bag for everything.

Sounds gay but every pound counts.

tantrix
10-24-2012, 12:12
Heavy worked myself to the point that I travel with one shoulder bag for everything.

Sounds gay but every pound counts.

I understand.

But...myself, I'd have to shave weight somewhere else then...trying to read on smaller screens make me want to blow my top. :rofl:

G29Reload
10-24-2012, 12:21
Ill pass. Hugely disappointed they dumped the optical drive. Thinner means zilch on a desktop. Its no longer an all in one if i have to clutter my desk with peripherals i now have to acquire and pay for that used to be included. Optical may not be as popular as it once was, but it is cross platform for people who like to rip disks and play them on a player on their home entertainment center. Just last week i bought something that came with dvd software. I have case of dvds that need to be converted. And if i have to physically hand someone a copy of anytbing its much easier and cheaper ona .25c blank cause im sure not gonna buY someone a thumb drive.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 12:24
The iPad 3 is too big? I'd rather kick back on a plane with an iPad 3 than a smaller tablet. Hell, I'd rather kick back on a plane with an iPad 1 than this mini.

One shoulder bag for everything.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 12:25
Ill pass. Hugely disappointed they dumped the optical drive. Thinner means zilch on a desktop. Its no longer an all in one if i have to clutter my desk with peripherals i now have to acquire and pay for that used to be included. Optical may not be as popular as it once was, but it is cross platform for people who like to rip disks and play them on a player on their home entertainment center. Just last week i bought something that came with dvd software. I have case of dvds that need to be converted. And if i have to physically hand someone a copy of anytbing its much easier and cheaper ona .25c blank cause im sure not gonna buY someone a thumb drive.

With Apple TV you can just stream to your entertainment center.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 12:26
I understand.

But...myself, I'd have to shave weight somewhere else then...trying to read on smaller screens make me want to blow my top. :rofl:

There's nothing left to shave! Lol.

Except maybe pants!

tantrix
10-24-2012, 12:35
There's nothing left to shave! Lol.

Except maybe pants!

Sounds like a plan! But, be sure to put up a thread of your TSA experience after. :rofl:

G29Reload
10-24-2012, 12:36
With Apple TV you can just stream to your entertainment center.

Does not address my post at all. Not interestsd in dedicating my computers to tv playback even though i already have that capacity.


Need a desktop with optical now and for the forseeable future. Irresputably.

Bushflyr
10-24-2012, 12:51
The Ipad Mini is 1024x768 with 163PPI, and the Nexus 7 is 1280x800 with 216PPI.

IPad Mini has the A5 processor, Nexus 7 has a quad-core Tegra 3 chip. The Tegra benchmarks faster.

Tell me again what that extra $130 (65%) buys you?

:dunno:

This.
Lower res than the N7. Slower processor than the N7. More money than the N7. You're stuck in the iOS ecosystem.

Sorry. Apple. Fail. The Jobs days of Apple releasing crazy cool $**t a year ahead of the market are gone. So begins the long slide into oblivion.

And the new iMac... Meh. So they made it thinner. :upeyes: I like my 27" iMac, but apple really needs to get off its butt and update the Powermac line. As much as I like mine I won't be buying another all-in-one ever again. The lack of upgrade-ability means it's EOL and into the trash. I'm currently trying to figure out how to salvage the gorgeous display when the processor can no longer keep up.

gatorboy
10-24-2012, 13:03
Here's the non-biased truth about Apple:

Apple makes some good devices, but their marketing is better than their product.





Sadly, this has been the case for a long time now. But, it does absolutely no good for us who don't buy Apple toilet paper, Apple toothpaste, Apple soap...you get the picture.

Even though in a normal world there's absolutely no use for a tablet bigger than the iPhone but smaller than the iPad, look at how many people (even here) who are already convinced they need one.

Like I said above, Apple's marketing is genius...convince people they need every new product you release, even if they don't. A sale is a sale.

It really is. I appreciate apple products because most of my lap tops end up destroyed by malware. Spent much money on products that don't work and basically rebuilding them in the old shells. I'm sure hackers will make great strides with all these people running apples now though.

As for the marketing, was a good move. I'm sure Glock would have released the 26/27/33 before the 19/23/32 if they could go back in time.

Question for anyone who knows: When did the ipad3 come out and when will it's sucessor be released (approximately).

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 13:57
This.
Lower res than the N7. Slower processor than the N7. More money than the N7. You're stuck in the iOS ecosystem.

Sorry. Apple. Fail. The Jobs days of Apple releasing crazy cool $**t a year ahead of the market are gone. So begins the long slide into oblivion.

And the new iMac... Meh. So they made it thinner. :upeyes: I like my 27" iMac, but apple really needs to get off its butt and update the Powermac line. As much as I like mine I won't be buying another all-in-one ever again. The lack of upgrade-ability means it's EOL and into the trash. I'm currently trying to figure out how to salvage the gorgeous display when the processor can no longer keep up.

That's one way to look at it. Another is to crunch the numbers.

1. The iPm's screen is 20+% larger. The iPm is 20+% smaller and 10+% lighter. That is a clear win.

2. Processing speed in theses things is overrated. I need a tool that works. And can be swapped out when I shut a door on it etc.

3. It'll sell like wild fire because most people look at these things as tools not like a techie DMC.

ryanm
10-24-2012, 14:00
Question for anyone who knows: When did the ipad3 come out and when will it's sucessor be released (approximately).


March 2012, approx?
iPad gen4 released yesterday. Shipping next month

ryanm
10-24-2012, 14:01
What sources are available for ibooks, worth an iPad mini / reg?

For instance, on a Nexus 7, ibooks can be read from Google Play, Nook App or Kindle App.

I stay in the Kindle app on my iPad.

faawrenchbndr
10-24-2012, 14:04
IPad 3 for me!
Better all around than a Windows product.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 14:05
Ill pass. Hugely disappointed they dumped the optical drive. Thinner means zilch on a desktop. Its no longer an all in one if i have to clutter my desk with peripherals i now have to acquire and pay for that used to be included. Optical may not be as popular as it once was, but it is cross platform for people who like to rip disks and play them on a player on their home entertainment center. Just last week i bought something that came with dvd software. I have case of dvds that need to be converted. And if i have to physically hand someone a copy of anytbing its much easier and cheaper ona .25c blank cause im sure not gonna buY someone a thumb drive.

Wait.

Are you really going to buy something else because iMac ditched optical drives?

1. I probably have a spare USB optical drive I can send you.

2. They can't keep a device in play that most people rarely use. On board optical will be almost totally gone in a year or two.

michael_b
10-24-2012, 14:18
Actually it's a smart move by Apple. They know damn well they have a built in sales stream to a rather large group of consumers who will buy anything Apple hypes up and then releases to market. Change the charging/docking cable? They will gladly pay to buy new cables and docking stations/devices. Put out a smaller iPad 2 tablet when you release the iPad 4? They will rave about it and line up to buy BOTH of them.

It's pure win for Apple and companies that make Apple products. :supergrin:

That's a good point about us fanbois....er those fanbois.

Well I for one am happy they dumped the older 30 pin connector.

I would prefer to see all iPads have wifi + cellular and priced more aggressively- no wifi only. I also don't like 16 GB as an option. Minimum should be 32 GB. Especially at the price points Apple buys memory at.

One way Jobs turned Apple around was buy cutting SKU's and narrowing their product offerings.

Just seems a little bloat is creeping in. I'm a big fan and and want them to stay focused.

roger123
10-24-2012, 14:27
Here's the non-biased truth about Apple:

Apple makes some good devices, but their marketing is better than their product.

Sadly, this has been the case for a long time now. But, it does absolutely no good for us who don't buy Apple toilet paper, Apple toothpaste, Apple soap...you get the picture.

Even though in a normal world there's absolutely no use for a tablet bigger than the iPhone but smaller than the iPad, look at how many people (even here) who are already convinced they need one.

Like I said above, Apple's marketing is genius...convince people they need every new product you release, even if they don't. A sale is a sale.

Crap, I had no idea that had that stuff where can you find it?

tantrix
10-24-2012, 14:28
Optical may not be as popular as it once was, but it is cross platform for people who like to rip disks and play them on a player on their home entertainment center.

You can hang it up then, because the words "Apple" and "cross platform" can't even go in the same sentence. Apple products do only what Apple wants them to do, not what YOU want them to do. If you want to do anything else...well, forget it.

If you need any evidence of this, just browse the Apple forums...they still can't figure out why some of their devices won't remember WiFi passwords. They also still won't let iPods move music from the iPod TO the PC without an act of congress...only FROM the PC to the iPod. My 8 year old Sony Walkman can do this with ease.






Back when Apple was not catering to teeny-boppers, they were good. Now, you damn near have to have Apple tires on your car for anything to work with each other. But the proprietary hardware is another topic for another day...I just wish they'd get their act together and fix the software problems.

iOS 6 comes out, and does nothing but add new features on top of the old problems?? Seriously Apple????

ryanm
10-24-2012, 14:29
One thing Apple is doing absolutely right is their new 'Fusion Drive' offering. You typically have to go to a high-end storage array to get that sort of functionality currently.
Here the OS is managing moving documents and infrequently accessed content to the slower, large 1TB or so disk while keeping the OS and often-used content on the 128GB SSD.
That may make me consider a mac mini to try out.

Available on the Mini and the iMac.

michael_b
10-24-2012, 14:30
Why on earth would they want to cannibalize the iPod business?

iPod sales have been in decline for years- the iPhone cannibalized that business. Steve Jobs view was that it is better to cannibalize yourself than let others do it to you.

What sources are available for ibooks, worth an iPad mini / reg?

For instance, on a Nexus 7, ibooks can be read from Google Play, Nook App or Kindle App.

I assume by ibooks you mean ebooks? iBooks is proprietary to Apple.

Options on an iPad, iPod or iPhone -
Nook app, Kindle App, iBooks, Google Play Books, - also many individual books as apps themselves and any non DRM ebook in ePub format. If it's not in ePub or has DRM, you just download Calibre and reformat it.

Question for anyone who knows: When did the ipad3 come out and when will it's sucessor be released (approximately).

March 2012, approx?
iPad gen4 released yesterday. Shipping next month

Look for iPad 5 this time next year.

One thing Apple is doing absolutely right is their new 'Fusion Drive' offering. You typically have to go to a high-end storage array to get that sort of functionality currently.
Here the OS is managing moving documents and infrequently accessed content to the slower, large 1TB or so disk while keeping the OS and often-used content on the 128GB SSD.
That may make me consider a mac mini to try out.

Available on the Mini and the iMac.

On the Mac Mini it's a $250 extra option.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 14:39
One thing Apple is doing absolutely right is their new 'Fusion Drive' offering. You typically have to go to a high-end storage array to get that sort of functionality currently.
Here the OS is managing moving documents and infrequently accessed content to the slower, large 1TB or so disk while keeping the OS and often-used content on the 128GB SSD.
That may make me consider a mac mini to try out.

Available on the Mini and the iMac.


The "middle" mini looks like a deal to me.

ETA-You guys notice that RAM may be user added to the minis through the top cover?

pizza_pablo
10-24-2012, 14:47
I assume by ibooks you mean ebooks? iBooks is proprietary to Apple.

Options on an iPad, iPod or iPhone -
Nook app, Kindle App, iBooks, Google Play Books, - also many individual books as apps themselves and any non DRM ebook in ePub format. If it's not in ePub or has DRM, you just download Calibre and reformat it.


Yes, that's what I meant. Thanks for the correction and the answer.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 15:03
The iPad mini is 7.9" on the diagonal. That equates to a screen that is 1/3 bigger than the 7" tablets.
Funny how screen size doesn't matter on a phone (Galaxy S3 vs. iPhone5) but is a big selling point on a tablet.

I don't understand why Apple thinks the 7.9" screen is some kind of advantage over a Nexus which is marketed as a 7" tablet? If Google comes out with a 8" tablet will Apple concede that their screen is now too small or claim the 8" is obviously too big?

Can I now brag that my Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 is substantially better than a iPad since the screen is .5" larger diagonally?

:upeyes:

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 15:08
Does not address my post at all. Not interestsd in dedicating my computers to tv playback even though i already have that capacity.


Need a desktop with optical now and for the forseeable future. Irresputably.

Discusting

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 15:12
One thing Apple is doing absolutely right is their new 'Fusion Drive' offering. You typically have to go to a high-end storage array to get that sort of functionality currently.
Here the OS is managing moving documents and infrequently accessed content to the slower, large 1TB or so disk while keeping the OS and often-used content on the 128GB SSD.
That may make me consider a mac mini to try out.

Available on the Mini and the iMac.
I hope it works better than that pos Time Capsule.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 15:13
Funny how screen size doesn't matter on a phone (Galaxy S3 vs. iPhone5) but is a big selling point on a tablet.

I don't understand why Apple thinks the 7.9" screen is some kind of advantage over a Nexus which is marketed as a 7" tablet? If Google comes out with a 8" tablet will Apple concede that their screen is now too small or claim the 8" is obviously too big?

:upeyes:

More screen same footprint

Making better use of the real estate vs the cheap thick black plastic border the droids and fire use to fit the battery but pinch pennies on display.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 15:14
I hope it works better than that pos Time Capsule.

Time capsule works great.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 15:17
iPod sales have been in decline for years- the iPhone cannibalized that business. Steve Jobs view was that it is better to cannibalize yourself than let others do it to you.



I assume by ibooks you mean ebooks? iBooks is proprietary to Apple.

Options on an iPad, iPod or iPhone -
Nook app, Kindle App, iBooks, Google Play Books, - also many individual books as apps themselves and any non DRM ebook in ePub format. If it's not in ePub or has DRM, you just download Calibre and reformat it.



Look for iPad 5 this time next year.



On the Mac Mini it's a $250 extra option.


Not cannibalized at same price point which was what the other guy was advocating.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 15:18
Time capsule works great.

Agreed but it now needs a tbolt port really badly.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 15:18
Time capsule works great.
My experience and the hundreds of Apple support threads re: failed TC's disagree.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 15:26
More screen same footprint

Making better use of the real estate vs the cheap thick black plastic border the droids and fire use to fit the battery but pinch pennies on display.
Pinch pennies on the display? How is the Nexus having a higher resolution screen "pinching pennies"? Isn't that Apples whole argument over why the Retina iPad (9.7") is better than the larger Samsung 10.1" displays?
So a larger, lower resolution screen is better when it's Apple but worse when it's the competition?
Seriously, do Apple fanbois ever stop to think about what they're typing?

The IPad Mini should be substantially better, it's being released at least 6 months after the Nexus. In tablet design cycles that's at least one full generation if not two.
That's why it's such a disappointment.
Lower screen resolution, slower processor, 64% higher price tag for 30% more screen size.
:faint:

ryanm
10-24-2012, 15:41
The "middle" mini looks like a deal to me.

ETA-You guys notice that RAM may be user added to the minis through the top cover?

Yes. Also available on the new 27" iMac (if I read the announcements correctly), but not on the smaller iMac.

Seriously considering ordering an MB Air today.
I hadn't yet decided on the Time Capsule, though.

Bushflyr
10-24-2012, 15:44
More screen same footprint

Making better use of the real estate vs the cheap thick black plastic border the droids and fire use to fit the battery but pinch pennies on display.

Having used a few of the ~7" devices, the bezel is necessary. You need about 1/2 - 3/4" around the edge to hold onto without activating the screen.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 15:54
I hadn't yet decided on the Time Capsule, though.
Read the Apple support forums and Amazon reviews first.
I dumped mine after the first crash (lasted a whole week) and went with a Belkin router and WD Time Machine compatible NAS.

cgwahl
10-24-2012, 16:00
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/24/tech/mobile/ipad-mini-comparisons/index.html?hpt=te_r1

sbhaven
10-24-2012, 16:18
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/24/tech/mobile/ipad-mini-comparisons/index.html?hpt=te_r1
From the article...
"... and the 1024x768 display resolution isn't much better than the Acer Iconia and pales in comparison to that of the Nook HD's 1440x900 and the 1280x800 Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire HD."
Ouch. Looking at the hardware specs as they are listed on paper, it looks Mini's competitors may have a better screen. Will be interesting to see actual hands on reviews that compare screen image quality amongst the Mini, Fire HD, and Nexus 7.

jtmac
10-24-2012, 16:24
I love the 7" form factor, but I find the Mac Mini underwhelming.

I was hoping to be surprised, but from the evidence I pretty well figured that they might go with 1024x768. I understand why, but it was a mistake. The software infrastructure they had treated the iPhone resolution as a phone sized application and the iPad resolutions as tablet sized applications, as well as relied on scaling their graphics to sizes that were multiples of the original. That meant it had to be the same resolution as one of their existing devices, specifically one of their tablet resolutions, and the bigger resolution wasn't going to be cheap if it was possible at all.

This is hard for Apple. They're following someone else's lead with this and targeting what is essentially a budget market with this. They had a couple of different options to make this less underwhelming, but they would either price themselves out of the market or (in an attempt make developers aware of changes ahead of time) have a lackluster early reveal for a product that's already too late to market.

Their stock took a nosedive. Too much disappointment surrounding this. There have been suggestions that this is a budget product targeted at the educational market, but they certainly didn't present it that way.

Here's how Apple could have saved this: They should have made a 16:10 tablet using the iPhone 4/4S resolution and they should have announced the launch at their iPhone 5 event. The 16:10 form factor sucks in big tablets (which Android tablet makers can't seem to grasp...), but at seven inches it feels right. The UI controls would be sized just right instead of feeling too small, by announcing it early they could have let developers adjust their applications to adjust to take proper advantage of the new resolution/size combination (a process they were already going through with the iPhone 5 already!). If they were worried about cannibalizing iPhone 5 sales by bundling the announcements, they could have simply delayed the iPad Mini pre-order dates. It wouldn't have the form factor that Apple practically has cornered the market on, but it would have been better in every other respect that way. There was still the issue of the iPad update, but they'd have been better to find some other place to announce that or to just forgo that minor revision altogether (though I wonder if this is a stalling tactic to put off their next, bigger revision).

Steve Jobs didn't want a 7" tablet. I have no idea if the improving software and resolutions changed his opinion on that or not, but I doubt it did. This product itself makes some missteps that he had made particular rumblings about avoiding, and the launch is clearly not "Steve-worthy". Apple has some phenomenally talented people, but this was not thought out very well at all. It makes me concerned for the future of the company.

boomhower
10-24-2012, 16:34
To expensive for me. At the $249/$299 price tag I was looking at buying two for the kids. Now I'll just craigslist a couple used iPad 2's. $329 without retina is just to much.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 17:01
Apple has some phenomenally talented people, but this was not thought out very well at all. It makes me concerned for the future of the company.
History repeating.
A broad, overlapping, confusing product lineup and poor management almost killed Apple the first time.

Trim the product line down considerably.

Keep the following:
iPod Shuffle
iPod Nano
iPad Mini base model WiFi 32GB @ $299 (kill off the 16GB models)
iPad Retina base model WiFi 32GB @ $499 (kill off the 16GB models).
iPhone4S
iPhone5

The computer lineup is pretty clutter/overlap free although the low end 13" MacBook Pro could be killed off because it overlaps the 13" Air.

Haldor
10-24-2012, 17:03
1080p video

Not on a screen that isn't 1080P resolution it's not.

The Nexus 7 will do 720P which in a 7" screen is incredibly high resolution. The reason the iPad Mini has limited resolution is Apple didn't pump up the processor power. The dual core A8 processor in the iPad mini is barely able to keep up with the existing resolution. The Nexus 7 has a quad core Tegra 3 processor that makes for a much more fluid and responsive experience than the apple at considerably higher resolution.

The iPad Mini is just an iPad with a smaller LCD. The Nexus 7 is a much more capable machine.

Makes the price difference even less supportable than usual for Apple. I was waiting for the iPad Mini to be released. Now that I have seen it I am buying a Nexus 7.

cgwahl
10-24-2012, 17:17
Not on a screen that isn't 1080P resolution it's not.

The Nexus 7 will do 720P which in a 7" screen is incredibly high resolution. The reason the iPad Mini has limited resolution is Apple didn't pump up the processor power. The dual core A8 processor in the iPad mini is barely able to keep up with the existing resolution. The Nexus 7 has a quad core Tegra 3 processor that makes for a much more fluid and responsive experience than the apple at considerably higher resolution.

The iPad Mini is just an iPad with a smaller LCD. The Nexus 7 is a much more capable machine.

Makes the price difference even less supportable than usual for Apple. I was waiting for the iPad Mini to be released. Now that I have seen it I am buying a Nexus 7.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad_2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad_mini


From the looks of it, unless I am missing something specwise, it looks like an iPad 2 with a smaller screen (and battery). Camera might be better though.

Maybe they had a lot of spare iPad 2 parts lying around.


On the bright side, this will mean the wife's iPad 2 will eek out another year or two in OS upgrades.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 17:28
My experience and the hundreds of Apple support threads re: failed TC's disagree.

Terrible metric. When a co. sells a zillion of something there will be haters.

I used a TC as a music server's storage device years ago when Apple wasn't sure it would work used that way. So I'm comfortable claiming it's a great device.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 17:31
Pinch pennies on the display? How is the Nexus having a higher resolution screen "pinching pennies"? Isn't that Apples whole argument over why the Retina iPad (9.7") is better than the larger Samsung 10.1" displays?
So a larger, lower resolution screen is better when it's Apple but worse when it's the competition?
Seriously, do Apple fanbois ever stop to think about what they're typing?

The IPad Mini should be substantially better, it's being released at least 6 months after the Nexus. In tablet design cycles that's at least one full generation if not two.
That's why it's such a disappointment.
Lower screen resolution, slower processor, 64% higher price tag for 30% more screen size.
:faint:

Don't be an idiot.

It's all a balance of screen size, weight, battery capacity and size.

Hate all you want. Apple will sell all of these that it can make for the next several months.

It's a winner.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 17:34
From the article...
"... and the 1024x768 display resolution isn't much better than the Acer Iconia and pales in comparison to that of the Nook HD's 1440x900 and the 1280x800 Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire HD."
Ouch. Looking at the hardware specs as they are listed on paper, it looks Mini's competitors may have a better screen. Will be interesting to see actual hands on reviews that compare screen image quality amongst the Mini, Fire HD, and Nexus 7.

I read that whole article. That's one guy's opinion and he is a stat watcher like 80% of the haters in this thread. On a screen that size, unless you are wearing the screen as a contact lens, resolution above 720i/p is wasted as heat.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 17:35
I love the 7" form factor, but I find the Mac Mini underwhelming.

I was hoping to be surprised, but from the evidence I pretty well figured that they might go with 1024x768. I understand why, but it was a mistake. The software infrastructure they had treated the iPhone resolution as a phone sized application and the iPad resolutions as tablet sized applications, as well as relied on scaling their graphics to sizes that were multiples of the original. That meant it had to be the same resolution as one of their existing devices, specifically one of their tablet resolutions, and the bigger resolution wasn't going to be cheap if it was possible at all.

This is hard for Apple. They're following someone else's lead with this and targeting what is essentially a budget market with this. They had a couple of different options to make this less underwhelming, but they would either price themselves out of the market or (in an attempt make developers aware of changes ahead of time) have a lackluster early reveal for a product that's already too late to market.

Their stock took a nosedive. Too much disappointment surrounding this. There have been suggestions that this is a budget product targeted at the educational market, but they certainly didn't present it that way.

Here's how Apple could have saved this: They should have made a 16:10 tablet using the iPhone 4/4S resolution and they should have announced the launch at their iPhone 5 event. The 16:10 form factor sucks in big tablets (which Android tablet makers can't seem to grasp...), but at seven inches it feels right. The UI controls would be sized just right instead of feeling too small, by announcing it early they could have let developers adjust their applications to adjust to take proper advantage of the new resolution/size combination (a process they were already going through with the iPhone 5 already!). If they were worried about cannibalizing iPhone 5 sales by bundling the announcements, they could have simply delayed the iPad Mini pre-order dates. It wouldn't have the form factor that Apple practically has cornered the market on, but it would have been better in every other respect that way. There was still the issue of the iPad update, but they'd have been better to find some other place to announce that or to just forgo that minor revision altogether (though I wonder if this is a stalling tactic to put off their next, bigger revision).

Steve Jobs didn't want a 7" tablet. I have no idea if the improving software and resolutions changed his opinion on that or not, but I doubt it did. This product itself makes some missteps that he had made particular rumblings about avoiding, and the launch is clearly not "Steve-worthy". Apple has some phenomenally talented people, but this was not thought out very well at all. It makes me concerned for the future of the company.

Rubbish it will sell and sell well.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 17:37
Terrible metric.
Your anectdotal positive experience is balanced by my negative experience.

The volume of Apple support forum TC issue threads compared to other Apple peripheral support threads is a pretty good metric IMO.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 17:38
Rubbish it will sell and sell well.
PT Barnum proven right yet again.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 17:40
Your anectdotal positive experience is balanced by my negative experience.

The volume of Apple support forum TC issue threads compared to other Apple peripheral support threads is a pretty good metric IMO.

I've had 4 over the years. They are plug and play for 97% of users. Maybe 99%.

People who can't follow set-up instructions may be in trouble.

sputnik767
10-24-2012, 17:42
Not on a screen that isn't 1080P resolution it's not.

The Nexus 7 will do 720P which in a 7" screen is incredibly high resolution. The reason the iPad Mini has limited resolution is Apple didn't pump up the processor power. The dual core A8 processor in the iPad mini is barely able to keep up with the existing resolution. The Nexus 7 has a quad core Tegra 3 processor that makes for a much more fluid and responsive experience than the apple at considerably higher resolution.

The iPad Mini is just an iPad with a smaller LCD. The Nexus 7 is a much more capable machine.

Makes the price difference even less supportable than usual for Apple. I was waiting for the iPad Mini to be released. Now that I have seen it I am buying a Nexus 7.

I already mentioned it in this thread, but do not get a device running the Tegra 3 chipset. I have one, and am regretting it. Just to summarize I will put up this screenshot:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/dmitry_ll/Screenshot_2012-10-24-19-35-45.png

It is the Quadrant Standard benchmark ratings for various devices including mine. The Asus Transformer Prime TF201 and the HTC One X are both powered by the Tegra 3 SoC. My device is the Samsung Galaxy S3, which is a dual-core device. As you can see, it absolutely destroyed the quad-core Tegra 3 devices everywhere that it counts, being memory speed and I/O, as well as overall. And it has half the CPU cores. Hold off on quad-core devices until you can get ones powered by a Samsung quad-core CPU, or something similar. And take it from me as an owner or the Asus Transformer Prime...It blows.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 17:43
I read that whole article. That's one guy's opinion and he is a stat watcher like 80% of the haters in this thread. On a screen that size, unless you are wearing the screen as a contact lens, resolution above 720i/p is wasted as heat.
The whole Apple launch was a brag on the Mini's stats vs. the Nexus!
Now that they have been debunked stats no longer matter?
:rofl:

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 17:44
PT Barnum proven right yet again.

That's the issue right there. I want something that works. You want something that seems cool. Sort-of like judging cars by raw horsepower instead of HP v. weight and others metrics.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 17:45
I've had 4 over the years. They are plug and play for 97% of users. Maybe 99%.

People who can't follow set-up instructions may be in trouble.
Yea... failed power supply is a set-up issue (most common support forum complaint btw).
:upeyes:

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 17:50
That's the issue right there. I want something that works. You want something that seems cool. Sort-of like judging cars by raw horsepower instead of HP v. weight and others metrics.
:rofl:
You're the one buying hype over substance.
How else can you explain paying an extra $130 for lower specs?

I buy based on the price to performance ratio, aka: informed consumer.
That's why I'm typing this on a MacBook Air and my 7" tablet is a Nexus.
:tongueout:

sputnik767
10-24-2012, 17:50
I read that whole article. That's one guy's opinion and he is a stat watcher like 80% of the haters in this thread. On a screen that size, unless you are wearing the screen as a contact lens, resolution above 720i/p is wasted as heat.

I have the Samsung galaxy S3 with a 1280x720 (720p) resolution in a 4.8" screen. It is absolutely not wasted as heat, and does make a significant difference when coming from a lower resolution device. And if it was wasted as heat, it would make even less sense in having the "retina" display in the 3.5" iPhone 4/4S, which is actually denser than the 720p display that I have. And the iPad Mini is not even 720p. Apple absolutely dropped the ball on this tablet by pricing it way above the competition, yet significantly lacking in features. While I am sure it will still sell just fine, it is yet another device that turned out to be less than stellar and underwhelming. Think about it, right up through the iPad 3 (with the exception of the iPhone 4S), Apple has been producing devices with useful features that nobody else had, and at a very competitive price point. Then came the iPhone 5 and the iPad mini, which are underwhelming by just about every standard. Apple's stock has fallen almost $100 since it's high back in September, and I am even reading that some analysts are expecting Apple to not meet their earnings targets when they report I believe tomorrow.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 17:51
The whole Apple launch was a brag on the Mini's stats vs. the Nexus!
Now that they have been debunked stats no longer matter?
:rofl:


Right. It's much smaller, much lighter and has a much bigger screen with similar battery life/run time. Plus K's of apps that work, 100X fewer bugs and Apple support shall I continue?

Don't try to snow me I have four salesguys who have Nexus'. I see them plugging the things in if a sales meeting last more than a couple of hours. I see them force-booting all the time. If you need/want to save the bucks or you are impressed by unusable screen rez. numbers fine. I'm not.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 17:58
Much smaller, much lighter... ok.
In a 7" tablet that's like arguing whether there are 100,000 angels dancing on the head of a pin or 100,001.

The Apps count reminds me of the Playstation games library, sure there are millions of them but the vast majority suck.

If you need/want to spend extra money for no reason other than hipster cool factor that's OK, just admit it.

Apple people remind me of Harley riders.

sbhaven
10-24-2012, 18:01
I read that whole article. That's one guy's opinion and he is a stat watcher like 80% of the haters in this thread. On a screen that size, unless you are wearing the screen as a contact lens, resolution above 720i/p is wasted as heat.
As did I. Right now all we have are peoples opinion on the Mini which is why I stated that it "will be interesting to see actual hands on reviews that compare screen image quality amongst the Mini, Fire HD, and Nexus 7."

Both Apple and some in this thread have touted 1080p on the Mini. It isn't clear what that 1080p claim really means.

Will Apple sell millions of Mini tablets, yes. Is the Mini better than other 7 inch tablets already on the market? That remains to be seen. And I strongly suspect that Apple really doesn't care if the Mini is the best 7 inch tablet on the market at this stage. They know they will sell hundreds of thousands of the Mini's based solely on the Apple brand name. They get their foot into the 7 inch tablet market while they engineer a better Mini "2" tablet.

sputnik767
10-24-2012, 18:02
If you need/want to save the bucks or you are impressed by unusable screen rez. numbers fine. I'm not.

See, you are only saying it's unusable because you are trying to justify not having it. And I don't see why you feel the need to justify a purchase to somebody over the internet. But unfortunately, higher resolution is very usable, even in a screen significantly smaller than 8". As I said, Apple was using much denser displays in the iPhone 4/4S, at which point it was hailed as something amazing, and you could absolutely tell the difference. As much I tried to tell myself that the ridiculous resolution in the iPad 3 is superfluous and unusable, using it one time, I saw the difference for myself. Again, I have no desire to convince you not to get this device, but don't dismiss a device with a better display as "unusable" because you are only doing a disservice to yourself. You would not be saying that if Apple put a 1080p display into the mini, would you?

For the record, the Nexus 7 is not a good device, and not one that deserves the Nexus title. That's what Google gets for partnering with Asus, and I doubt they will make this mistake again.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 18:02
I have the Samsung galaxy S3 with a 1280x720 (720p) resolution in a 4.8" screen. It is absolutely not wasted as heat, and does make a significant difference when coming from a lower resolution device. And if it was wasted as heat, it would make even less sense in having the "retina" display in the 3.5" iPhone 4/4S, which is actually denser than the 720p display that I have. Apple absolutely dropped the ball on this tablet by pricing it way above the competition, yet significantly lacking in features. While I am sure it will still sell just fine, it is yet another device that turned out to be less than stellar and underwhelming. Think about it, right up through the iPad 3, Apple has been producing devices with useful features that nobody else had, and at a very competitive price point. Then came the iPhone 5 and the iPad mini, which are underwhelming by just about every standard. Apple's stock has fallen almost $100 since it's high back in September, and I am even reading that some analysts are expecting Apple to not meet their earnings targets when they report I believe tomorrow.

Apple reports tomorrow. And the stock has pulled back some. Sure it's down $100 off it's its highs (the broader markets are off big time over the same span as well). It's also still up $200 over TTLY.

I don't expect you to get this because you are still in school. Bigger screen + smaller size + lighter with the same battery life is a winner for people who work and especially people who travel.

I'll post up a chart later tonight about screen size, viewing distance and resolution etc. later.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 18:04
On a screen that size, unless you are wearing the screen as a contact lens, resolution above 720i/p is wasted as heat.
Please explain why Apple is bragging about the 4" Retina display on the iPhone5...
Maybe you should call them up and explain your "contact lens", "wasted heat" theories.
:rofl:

When an Apple product is superior the fanbois brag about it, when it's inferior they say it doesn't matter.
The arrogant spirit of Steve Jobs is alive and well.

I'm eagerly awaiting the iPad Mini Retina announcement so you can contradict everything you've posted in this thread.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 18:11
See, you are only saying it's unusable because you are trying to justify not having it. And I don't see why you feel the need to justify a purchase to somebody over the internet. But unfortunately, higher resolution is very usable, even in a screen significantly smaller than 8". As I said, Apple was using much denser displays in the iPhone 4/4S, at which point it was hailed as something amazing, and you could absolutely tell the difference. As much I tried to tell myself that the ridiculous resolution in the iPad 3 is superfluous and unusable, using it one time, I saw the difference for myself. Again, I have no desire to convince you not to get this device, but don't dismiss a device with a better display as "unusable" because you are only doing a disservice to yourself. You would not be saying that if Apple put a 1080p display into the mini, would you?

Internet vagaries as they are, that's not my point. My point is a much bigger screen, smaller form factor, less weight and similar battery life trumps sizzling speed and a hi rez screen on a tiny device.

And I'm not trying to justify anything. I could run out tomorrow and buy 500 Nexui and not blink. I have salesguys who have them. They are not that great - especially the grossly overrated run times.


To your final point I get what they did. A 1080p screen plus the required guts on a 7.9 diag. platform would kill the battery in a couple of hours.

sputnik767
10-24-2012, 18:12
Apple reports tomorrow. And the stock has pulled back some. Sure it's down $100 off it's its highs (the broader markets are off big time over the same span as well). It's also still up $200 over TTLY.

I don't expect you to get this because you are still in school. Bigger screen + smaller size + lighter with the same battery life is a winner for people who work and especially people who travel.

I'll post up a chart later tonight about screen size, viewing distance and resolution etc. later.

Actually I absolutely get this. I would love a smaller tablet for hospital rotations because I can carry it in my lab coat pocket and pull up patient labs and other reports. And if Apple put a decent display on it, I think it would be just the thing. The problem is, I can't justify spending $130 more than the competition without a significant upgrade. Simply put, I don't see how it's worth the price premium.

tantrix
10-24-2012, 18:13
Then came the iPhone 5 and the iPad mini, which are underwhelming by just about every standard. Apple's stock has fallen almost $100 since it's high back in September, and I am even reading that some analysts are expecting Apple to not meet their earnings targets when they report I believe tomorrow.

A lot of truth there.

The last good thing they put out was the iPad 3, which really wasn't all that much better than the iPad 2, but I'll give them that one.

The iPhone 5...meh. iPad Mini...meh.

This is exactly what I figured would happen after Jobs passed...they were going to go stupid and start taking the old stuff, adding 5 features, call it "new" and charging premium. iPhone 5...meh. iPad Mini...meh.

It's gotten to the point where if you have 1 Apple device, you pretty much have them all. Apple has gone from revolutionary to trendy.

sputnik767
10-24-2012, 18:13
Internet vagaries as they are, that's not my point. My point is a much bigger screen, smaller form factor, less weight and similar battery life trumps sizzling speed and a hi rez screen on a tiny device.

And I'm not trying to justify anything. I could run out tomorrow and buy 500 Nexui and not blink. I have salesguys who have them. They are not that great - especially the grossly overrated run times.


To your final point I get what they did. A 1080p screen plus the required guts on a 7.9 diag. platform would kill the battery in a couple of hours.

I actually added to the post that you quoted, I absolutely agree that the Nexus 7 is not a good device. There simply is not a small tablet on the market right now that I would consider.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 18:16
Internet vagaries as they are, that's not my point. My point is a much bigger screen, smaller form factor, less weight and similar battery life trumps sizzling speed and a hi rez screen on a tiny device.
I'm confused now.
Are you arguing why the iPad Mini is better than the Nexus or why the Galaxy S3 is better then the iPhone5?
:whistling:

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 18:17
Actually I absolutely get this. I would love a smaller tablet for hospital rotations because I can carry it in my lab coat pocket and pull up patient labs and other reports. And if Apple put a decent display on it, I think it would be just the thing. The problem is, I can't justify spending $130 more than the competition without a significant upgrade. Simply put, I don't see how it's worth the price premium.


And I get your point. The other side of the equation is millions and millions of buyers see light weight/large screen and a 95% of state of the art screen as a winner. It's not like the iPm's screen is 480i black and white.

sbhaven
10-24-2012, 18:18
Don't try to snow me I have four salesguys who have Nexus'. I see them plugging the things in if a sales meeting last more than a couple of hours. I see them force-booting all the time.
Don't know what's wrong with their Nexus 7's. My Nexus 7 has performed flawlessly since I bought it back in July. As with any tablet it will have to be recharged, I get upwards of 6 to 8 hours (ETA: or longer if I use Airplane Mode) of mixed email/internet/ebook use out of mine before recharging. The only time I've force booted mine was to manually push a firmware update to my Nexus 7. This was only because I edited one file to experiment with the encoding quality of the video camera and it blocked the firmware update.

Its rather humorous to see these discussions on Apple and non Apple tablets evolve. Some have pretty strong emotional ties to their love, or hate, of Apple and or Android products. ETA: And some have their strong opinions on the usefulness of a 7 inch tablet compared to larger tablets.
:dunno:

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 18:25
I actually added to the post that you quoted, I absolutely agree that the Nexus 7 is not a good device. There simply is not a small tablet on the market right now that I would consider.
For a disposable tablet (which is what all 7" tablets are) the Nexus is good (Galaxy Tab2 7" is great).
I use a Nexus when traveling and gave a Tab2 to my 9 year old.

Apple is trying to market a "premium" device in a disposable category. Small tablet tech is moving so rapidly that a purchase's lifespan is months not years. The Mini was 6 months behind the curve on launch day.
When Christmas comes around and the current Nexus is $99 and the next gen is $199 , what is Apple going to do?

sputnik767
10-24-2012, 18:25
And I get your point. The other side of the equation is millions and millions of buyers see light weight/large screen and a 95% of state of the art screen as a winner. It's not like the iPm's screen is 480i black and white.

If there's one thing that's true about Apple, it's that while some of their products may be underwhelming, they are never disappointing. This makes Apple a safe choice over some new, unproved Android device. This is also why Apple devices sell very well.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 18:26
I'm confused now.
Are you arguing why the iPad Mini is better than the Nexus or why the Galaxy S3 is better then the iPhone5?
:whistling:

And by the way your stupid word game works right back at you in reverse. Funny how that works.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 18:31
Its rather humorous to see these discussions on Apple and non Apple tablets evolve. Some have pretty strong emotional ties to their love, or hate, of Apple and or Android products.
Some of us actually own and use multiple Apple and Android products, recognize their strengths and weaknesses and know a stinker when we see one.
The iPad Mini is a stinker.

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 18:40
And by the way your stupid word game works right back at you in reverse. Funny how that works.
Now you're starting to get it.

It is funny how the products all perform so close yet some of them are priced so much higher...
It's also funny how some people try to justify those higher prices with intangibles.
The old "if I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand" masturbatory cop out used by name droppers everywhere.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 18:47
Now you're starting to get it.

It is funny how the products all perform so close yet some of them are priced so much higher...
It's also funny how some people try to justify those higher prices with intangibles.
The old "if I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand" masturbatory cop out used by name droppers everywhere.




I have explained 3 or 4x in this thread why Apple will sell millions of the iPm - size, weight, screen size, battery life, good screen, fell, looks, utility, Apps that work, almost no real bugs and Apple support and the Apple "Universe". Only the last couple might be considered intangibles.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 18:49
Don't know what's wrong with their Nexus 7's. My Nexus 7 has performed flawlessly since I bought it back in July. As with any tablet it will have to be recharged, I get upwards of 6 to 8 hours (ETA: or longer if I use Airplane Mode) of mixed email/internet/ebook use out of mine before recharging. The only time I've force booted mine was to manually push a firmware update to my Nexus 7. This was only because I edited one file to experiment with the encoding quality of the video camera and it blocked the firmware update.

Its rather humorous to see these discussions on Apple and non Apple tablets evolve. Some have pretty strong emotional ties to their love, or hate, of Apple and or Android products. ETA: And some have their strong opinions on the usefulness of a 7 inch tablet compared to larger tablets.
:dunno:

That's much of it right there. The iPm's screen is not 7in. - it's 20%+ bigger.

tantrix
10-24-2012, 18:50
I have explained 3 or 4x in this thread why Apple will sell millions of the iPm - size, weight, screen size, battery life, good screen, fell, looks, utility, Apps that work, almost no real bugs and Apple support and the Apple "Universe". Only the last couple might be considered intangibles.

Actually, they'll sell millions just because of their name. The Mini isn't really all that special, and it's just a niche product.

.264 magnum
10-24-2012, 19:00
Actually, they'll sell millions just because of their name. The Mini isn't really all that special, and it's just a niche product.

I think what they might be gravitating toward is an iMac/iPad fusion.

A monster processor, ~10/11 inch "retina" screen, ~100+ gigs of RAM, maybe a USB 3 port or two and re-dock-ability (two or three docks one device) and on board battery that might last a few hours etc.

jtmac
10-24-2012, 19:01
On a screen that size, unless you are wearing the screen as a contact lens, resolution above 720i/p is wasted as heat.

I can definitely make out individual pixels on my Nexus 7, and at that small a difference in resolution 720p video scaling would be noticeably "smudged". This is specifically why I have no interest in it or the iPad 1/2.

Higher resolution doesn't make for more heat, though. That would be the area of the backlight.

Rubbish it will sell and sell well.

I didn't say it wouldn't. I just said they made poor decisions. Compared to hat they could have done, the product is lackluster and the launch was botched. Many will still buy and enjoy it.

tantrix
10-24-2012, 19:04
I think what they might be gravitating toward is an iMac/iPad fusion.

A monster processor, ~10/11 inch "retina" screen, ~100+ gigs of RAM, maybe a USB 3 port or two and re-dock-ability (two or three docks one device) and on board battery that might last a few hours etc.

They better step up their game, I know that much. Apple forums have been overflowing with bug reports (no resolutions) and feature requests (never added) forever now, and Apple is busy releasing new devices running iOS with the SAME damn problems.

I seriously don't think anything is going through their heads anymore except for $$$ signs.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 19:21
I can definitely make out individual pixels on my Nexus 7, and at that small a difference in resolution 720p video scaling would be noticeably "smudged". This is specifically why I have no interest in it or the iPad 1/2.

Higher resolution doesn't make for more heat, though. That would be the area of the backlight.



I didn't say it wouldn't. I just said they made poor decisions. Compared to hat they could have done, the product is lackluster and the launch was botched. Many will still buy and enjoy it.

No one has mentioned it yet so I will:

Life cycle management.

Apple is very very good at it. It drives the top line. Several generations of the mini pad are moving thru the pipeline now.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 19:36
They better step up their game, I know that much. Apple forums have been overflowing with bug reports (no resolutions) and feature requests (never added) forever now, and Apple is busy releasing new devices running iOS with the SAME damn problems.

I seriously don't think anything is going through their heads anymore except for $$$ signs.

Seriously, I've got what seems like damn near every product they make. What bugs?

jtmac
10-24-2012, 20:06
No one has mentioned it yet so I will:

Life cycle management.

Apple is very very good at it. It drives the top line. Several generations of the mini pad are moving thru the pipeline now.

This isn't driving the top line. This is barely "middle line" at this point. I will be very surprised if the second generation of the iPad Mini has a higher-end screen, and that will make at least two years of the company known for pushing the bar having noticeably lower visual fidelity, and all the while they're pushing the UI controls to below-optimal sizes. There were other ways of doing it, and I find the endeavor very questionable compared to Apple's recent history of making very wise (if sometimes gutsy) decisions.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 20:30
This isn't driving the top line. This is barely "middle line" at this point. I will be very surprised if the second generation of the iPad Mini has a higher-end screen, and that will make at least two years of the company known for pushing the bar having noticeably lower visual fidelity, and all the while they're pushing the UI controls to below-optimal sizes. There were other ways of doing it, and I find the endeavor very questionable compared to Apple's recent history of making very wise (if sometimes gutsy) decisions.

Financial -- revenue

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 20:30
Seriously, I've got what seems like damn near every product they make. What bugs?
Superdrive not working on MBA after OSX 10.8.2 upgrade due to glitch in region setup procedure.

If you take a brand new MBA and upgrade to 10.8.2 then attach a Superdrive and then the first disc you try to play is a DVD it crashes the DVD Player instantly.
You have to manually setup the DVD Player region before attempting to play your first DVD.
Of course there aren't any prompts to inform you about having to do this, and no prompts to set region the first time you insert a DVD.

Everything works fine if you attached the Superdrive prior to upgrading.

Poor Beta testing.
Bug that should have been caught prior to release.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 20:38
Superdrive not working on MBA after OSX 10.8.2 upgrade due to glitch in region setup procedure.

If you take a brand new MBA and upgrade to 10.8.2 then attach a Superdrive and then the first disc you try to play is a DVD it crashes the DVD Player instantly.
You have to manually setup the DVD Player region before attempting to play your first DVD.
Of course there aren't any prompts to inform you about having to do this, and no prompts to set region the first time you insert a DVD.

Everything works fine if you attached the Superdrive prior to upgrading.

Poor Beta testing.
Bug that should have been caught prior to release.

ok. Don't own a super drive but I'd agree that's something that should have been caught but heartburn? This is flooding the message boards?

NMGlocker
10-24-2012, 20:55
This is actually a common complaint, the Apple support forum had no resolution and the much vaunted AppleCare support couldn't figure it out either. They told me to just use VLC Player until the next DVD Player update.
I figured it out and fixed it on my own.

Bow Commander
10-24-2012, 23:28
My iphones and ipads have been flawless. I was really hoping the mini would come in around the $279ish price point. Oh well. Still pretty cool.

ryanm
10-25-2012, 06:44
I love an Apple thread on here. They keep on going, and going, and going!

686Owner
10-25-2012, 08:00
Funny how screen size doesn't matter on a phone (Galaxy S3 vs. iPhone5) but is a big selling point on a tablet.

I don't understand why Apple thinks the 7.9" screen is some kind of advantage over a Nexus which is marketed as a 7" tablet? If Google comes out with a 8" tablet will Apple concede that their screen is now too small or claim the 8" is obviously too big?

Can I now brag that my Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 is substantially better than a iPad since the screen is .5" larger diagonally?

:upeyes:

Funny how screen size matters to Fandroids until Apple makes a bigger screen, then they claim that Android phones have bigger screens so they must be better.

To spell it out to you, yes, bigger is better while using it, but in a product that I carry in my pocket all day, I'm pretty sensitive to size and weight. In a product that I would only hold on the couch and not carry with me except on maybe long trips, I might take the bigger screen. The iPad is just too big (heavy) for me to hold comfortably in one hand. The iPad mini is slightly wider than the Nexus 7. Maybe too wide I don't know, but it's also lighter. So being lighter and bigger screen are both wins for me. Hopefully it's not too wide to hold, but Apple has a good record for design, so it looks like a product that will be useful to me.

You could argue that the bigger screen is better on the 10" tablets, but .5" isn't nearly the jump it is in say a phone-sized device. Also, one could argue that the lack of apps designed for an Android tablet just means you might have that much more empty space a good deal of the time. :)

The iPad mini is a product I want, but they may have priced themselves out of my market. I would strongly consider even an 8GB version at a lower ($250?) price point for my uses for it.

686Owner
10-25-2012, 08:07
Pinch pennies on the display? How is the Nexus having a higher resolution screen "pinching pennies"? Isn't that Apples whole argument over why the Retina iPad (9.7") is better than the larger Samsung 10.1" displays?
So a larger, lower resolution screen is better when it's Apple but worse when it's the competition?
Seriously, do Apple fanbois ever stop to think about what they're typing?

The IPad Mini should be substantially better, it's being released at least 6 months after the Nexus. In tablet design cycles that's at least one full generation if not two.
That's why it's such a disappointment.
Lower screen resolution, slower processor, 64% higher price tag for 30% more screen size.
:faint:

Priced too high, yes, but doesn't your tablet have a calculator app? 16GB Nexus is still $250 right? $330-$250 = $80 80/250 = 33%

Also, didn't realize 2 more versions on Nexus had been released int he last 6 months (2 design cycles?).

686Owner
10-25-2012, 08:27
:rofl:
You're the one buying hype over substance.
How else can you explain paying an extra $130 for lower specs?

I buy based on the price to performance ratio, aka: informed consumer.
That's why I'm typing this on a MacBook Air and my 7" tablet is a Nexus.
:tongueout:


There are cheaper computers out there with better specs than your MacBook Air. Why did you buy the hype instead of the specs?


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

.264 magnum
10-25-2012, 08:30
There are cheaper computers out there with better specs than your MacBook Air. Why did you buy the hype instead of the specs?


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

That's a great point. Most Apple computers are and have overpriced v. the market from a stat per stat perspective. They sell because they work and are easy to use.

Bow Commander
10-25-2012, 11:45
That's a great point. Most Apple computers are and have overpriced v. the market from a stat per stat perspective. They sell because they work and are easy to use.

This +1.

They offer two different experiences (Mac vs. PC). And naturally, people typically prefer one over the other. It's not so much about the specs.

G29Reload
10-25-2012, 11:58
Please explain why Apple is bragging about the 4" Retina display on the iPhone5...
Maybe you should call them up and explain your "contact lens", "wasted heat" theories.
:rofl:

I have to say as an ios user at times and having a 4thGen Ipod Touch (Basically the IPhone minus the phone and using it daily for vid watching, ) I'm glad when I ditched my blackberry i went for the SamsungGSIII.

Extra screen is nice. much easier on the eyes. Going from the G3 back to the touch is almost shocking.

I could see getting the ipad mini as a replacement for the Touch at some point in the future. For the price anyway, rather have the mini than a slightly upgraded touch.

G29Reload
10-25-2012, 12:10
Wait.

Are you really going to buy something else because iMac ditched optical drives?

1. I probably have a spare USB optical drive I can send you.

2. They can't keep a device in play that most people rarely use. On board optical will be almost totally gone in a year or two.

Yes, Probably a mini, a thunderbolt 27" display and a plug in superdrive.

Or a MacPro.

Or try and get one of the last Imacs with the Superdrive.

Apple geek at the genius bar indicated that he wanted an extra superdrive for his existing iMac and the system would not support it. He had to buy aftermarket to plug an extra DVD drive for the iMac. Apple only lets it work on the Mini and the Air. Beyond stupid if you ask me. WHo knows maybe its a driver conflict that made them write it off.

Now, if they don't support a plug in SuperDrive for the new iMac there are gonna be a lot of pissed users. I would not even consider a new imac unless at the least they let you plug in the Apple USB Superdrive.

Optical may be gone someday but not a year or two. More like 5 plus if that. Too easy to rip a DVD to go plop on the couch and play it in a home entertainment center.

Too many people do not have good connections or bandwidth at home for netflix or itunes. The need either a satellite movie channel or DVD.

DVD jumps the platform from Computer > TV. Data or video. Cheap blank media. Disposable media. I have a case of DVD movies that will keep me ripping with handbrake for the next decade to build my digital inventory.

NMGlocker
10-25-2012, 12:29
There are cheaper computers out there with better specs than your MacBook Air. Why did you buy the hype instead of the specs?
You haven't priced ultrabooks have you?
MBA 13" - $1200
Samsung S5 13" w/SSD - $1000
Samsung S9 15" - $1300
Not quite the 64% premium the iPad Mini is over the Nexus.

Then there's the fact that the video/image editing software I use for my $125k IR camera performs better on OSX than Win7.

If I could find a really nice Ubuntu 12.04 ultrabook I'd switch to it over the MBA.
I have considered buying a Samsung Series 9 and installing Ubuntu but haven't tested one for compatibility.

certifiedfunds
10-25-2012, 13:22
That's a great point. Most Apple computers are and have overpriced v. the market from a stat per stat perspective. They sell because they work and are easy to use.

One way overlooked differentiator is the multi-touch trackpad that other makers haven't really been able to do well. Once you get really accustomed to it nothing else will do.

robrides85
10-25-2012, 14:43
I just recognize a "iFanboi tax" when i see one, and the $130 premium is one.

This.

NMGlocker
10-25-2012, 14:57
One way overlooked differentiator is the multi-touch trackpad that other makers haven't really been able to do well. Once you get really accustomed to it nothing else will do.
The trackpad gestures are great.
I find myself trying to two finger scroll or click my Dell trackpad all the time.

robrides85
10-25-2012, 15:02
I read that whole article. That's one guy's opinion and he is a stat watcher like 80% of the haters in this thread. On a screen that size, unless you are wearing the screen as a contact lens, resolution above 720i/p is wasted as heat.

Laying on my stomach in bed watching videos prior to going to sleep, yup, pretty much a contact lens.

robrides85
10-25-2012, 15:16
Right. It's much smaller, much lighter and has a much bigger screen with similar battery life/run time. Plus K's of apps that work, 100X fewer bugs and Apple support shall I continue?

Don't try to snow me I have four salesguys who have Nexus'. I see them plugging the things in if a sales meeting last more than a couple of hours. I see them force-booting all the time. If you need/want to save the bucks or you are impressed by unusable screen rez. numbers fine. I'm not.

I think they're snowing you. They must be playing Dead Trigger while everyone else is paying attention in those sales meetings - N7 has an excellent battery life. First example that came up on G+:

bitly.com/SAD7Oq

Have had to force-boot once in the last 3 months of ownership. My fault; was playing a game on low battery and plugged it into some random microUSB phone charger I had laying around - phone charger couldn't keep up with power demands of the gameplay, and I took the battery all the way down to 0. Some safeguard must've kicked in to not damage the battery - after the force reboot, took twice as long for the battery to charge back up to 100% on the N7 charger, and afterward everything was back to normal.

robrides85
10-25-2012, 15:23
Priced too high, yes, but doesn't your tablet have a calculator app? 16GB Nexus is still $250 right? $330-$250 = $80 80/250 = 33%

Also, didn't realize 2 more versions on Nexus had been released int he last 6 months (2 design cycles?).

I'll be back in four days and do some more math again - if the rumors are true, $250 will get you a 32GB Nexus 7. Too many companies are willing to undercut Apple, providing a similar standard of living for less. As a consumer, I'm loving those companies. If I owned APPL stock, I'd be loving Apple.

robrides85
10-25-2012, 15:27
Priced too high, yes, but doesn't your tablet have a calculator app? 16GB Nexus is still $250 right? $330-$250 = $80 80/250 = 33%

Also, didn't realize 2 more versions on Nexus had been released int he last 6 months (2 design cycles?).

Ah the heck with it - worst kept secret and all that, buy a 32GB at Office Depot for $250 now:

http://www.booksnreview.com/articles/1517/20121025/32gb-google-nexus-7-tablet-release-date-today-office-depot-apple-ipad-mini.htm

So 32GB iPad Mini for $429-$250 for 32GB of N7 = $179 $179/$250 = 72%. Mother of God.

NMGlocker
10-25-2012, 15:28
Instead of the Mini, Apple should have come out with an improved version of the Asus PadFone.
Use your iPhone5 as the "brains" of a iPad like tablet dock and iMac like desktop dock.
That would be innovation/cool.
All you data on one device that can go from pocket to couch to 27" monitor at work with no sync required, just plug and go.
Maybe have a "booster" processor, GPU and memory in the desktop to run real computer applications.

robrides85
10-25-2012, 15:32
Instead of the Mini, Apple should have come out with an improved version of the Asus PadFone.
Use your iPhone5 as the "brains" of a iPad like tablet dock and iMac like desktop dock.
That would be innovation/cool.
All you data on one device that can go from pocket to couch to 27" monitor at work with no sync required, just plug and go.
Maybe have a "booster" processor, GPU and memory in the desktop to run real computer applications.

I just saw this the other day - introduced to the concept via the Padfone2 - very interesting!

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/16/asus-padfone-2-hands-on/?a_dgi=aolshare_twitter

NMGlocker
10-25-2012, 15:38
Also, didn't realize 2 more versions on Nexus had been released int he last 6 months (2 design cycles?).
7" tablets in general have advanced 1 or 2 generations over the past 6 months, not the Nexus specifically.
The iPad Mini released now is the same spec as a 6 month old Nexus, which is now a "old gen" tablet compared to the Samsung and Asus offerings about to drop just in time for Christmas.
To justify the price Apple should have had a Retina display and the A6X processor. Heck with those two upgrades the Mini could justify a $399 price tag and not be out of line.
If Apple keeps their 12 month life cycle the Mini will be a real piece of crap compared to next years 7"-8" tablets.

DreamWeaver88
10-25-2012, 16:08
If Apple keeps their 12 month life cycle the Mini will be a real piece of crap compared to next years 7"-8" tablets.

Apple can't win. They make 1 version of something per year, people cry about having to buy a new one each year.

They make 1 version per year, people cry that it's going to be so outdated before the year is over.

Of course the android tablets are going to have better specs......a new one gets released each week.

Anyway, do the tablet specs between ecosystems really matter?

NMGlocker
10-25-2012, 16:26
Apple can't win. They make 1 version of something per year, people cry about having to buy a new one each year.

They make 1 version per year, people cry that it's going to be so outdated before the year is over.

Anyway, do the tablet specs between ecosystems really matter?

Apple can win when their products are innovative at launch.
They'll lose if their products are 6 months old at launch.

Things like memory and screen resolution matter no matter the OS

For example there's a 9.6", 3840 x 2160 resolution, 458PPI screen introduced today (http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20121025/247705/). By this time next year similar screens will be on 7" Android tablets while Apple will be stuck in the tablet equivalent of VGA.

certifiedfunds
10-25-2012, 17:05
Apple can win when their products are innovative at launch.
They'll lose if their products are 6 months old at launch.

Things like memory and screen resolution matter no matter the OS

For example there's a 9.6", 3840 x 2160 resolution, 458PPI screen introduced today (http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20121025/247705/). By this time next year similar screens will be on 7" Android tablets while Apple will be stuck in the tablet equivalent of VGA.

The pattern I'm seeing, honestly, is what I said earlier: Lifecycle management. I truly believe they hold back features for the next refresh.

so they give the minipad that everyone's been asking for, give bigger display but lower rez and a chip back at a premium price, high margin. Then, 6 or 9 months after they've sold millions of them they refresh with retina and faster chip and sell millions more, pushing the first minipad to the fighter price. They're very good at lifecycle management and price stratification.

It truly is a brilliant strategy and no one is currently doing it better.

roger123
10-25-2012, 17:15
Apple's got me, I have had the phone and iPad for several years and won't switch. I have tons of apps and I know how to use the device. I have no interest in learning anything new. My apple stuff works and I could care less about the newest, fastest screen or chip.

When I need a new one, I'll buy it, I don't upgrade just to get the newest. I get a new phone every two years (contract renewal) and will only replace my iPad 2 when it dies.

My wife is still using her original iPad with no issues.

jmohme
10-25-2012, 19:47
Long ovedue. I have always thought that the iPad was too large to be more convenient than my laptop.
This size makes me want to take a closer look at the mini.

Bow Commander
10-26-2012, 16:20
The pattern I'm seeing, honestly, is what I said earlier: Lifecycle management. I truly believe they hold back features for the next refresh.

so they give the minipad that everyone's been asking for, give bigger display but lower rez and a chip back at a premium price, high margin. Then, 6 or 9 months after they've sold millions of them they refresh with retina and faster chip and sell millions more, pushing the first minipad to the fighter price. They're very good at lifecycle management and price stratification.

It truly is a brilliant strategy and no one is currently doing it better.

Quoted for truth.

ChicagoRSX
10-26-2012, 19:10
I was interested in this, but then I saw the price. What, like $70 more and I can have a full IPAD? Thanks, I'll pass. I really think apple missed on this one. I'm leaning to the Nexus 7.

heliguy
10-27-2012, 10:04
Worthless without a retina display!

NMGlocker
10-27-2012, 10:14
Worthless without a retina display!
Not worthless... just over-priced without the A6X/Retina.

sputnik767
10-27-2012, 11:12
Not worthless... just over-priced without the A6X/Retina.

Agreed. Good device overall, just overpriced for what you get.

Taphius
10-29-2012, 11:20
349 for the new nexus, unlocked, subsidized. Love android/google and there not holding back features for next release price :P

299 for nexus 7 32gb with fake 4g too.

sbhaven
10-29-2012, 14:43
Google announced some new models today.
Google's Nexus Trio: Nexus 4, Nexus 7, and Nexus 10 Announced with Android 4.2
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/google-nexus-nexus-nexus-10-announced-android-42/story?id=17590945
Nexus 4 (Starts at $299)
The new Nexus 4 phone, which is made by LG, will replace the Samsung Galaxy Nexus phone that came out about a year ago. The phone has a large 4.7-inch screen with a high-resolution 1280 x 768 display, and a fast quad-core S4 Pro processor. The camera on the phone has also been updated (it was one of the major pain points of the last version) -- it now has an 8-megapixel camera on the back and a 1.3-megapixel camera on the front for video chatting.

The $299 base version has 8GB of storage and a $349 version will have 16GB of space. For now, Google will only offer the phone unlocked through T-Mobile, meaning it won't be available through Verizon, Sprint or AT&T. That also means it will not have LTE service in the U.S.

The new Android 4.2 software brings new gesture typing, "which lets you glide your finger over the letters you want to type on the keyboard," Google says. It also supports wireless video and new photo features. The phone will be available to order through Google's Play store starting today and in select T-Mobile retail stores and online on Nov. 14.

Nexus 7 (Starts at $199)
Moving up to the 7-inch screen, Google has slightly refreshed its Nexus 7 tablet, which it announced back in June in collaboration with Asus. The new version will run Android 4.2, but there is also a 32GB version now that will cost $249. There will be a 32GB version with HSPA+ cellular connectivity for $299. That version will work with AT&T SIM cards and service. The 16GB version with WiFi only costs $199.

Nexus 10 ($399)
Of course, there's one more! The Nexus 10, as you might guess, has a 10-inch screen and the latest Android 4.2 software. Built by Samsung, the tablet has a high-resolution 2560 x 1600 resolution screen, similar to the Retina display on the new iPad. Internally, the tablet has a dual-core processor and 2GB of RAM. The 16GB version will start at $399.
Google Nexus 10 bests the iPad's screen, available November 13 starting at $399
http://reviews.cnet.com/tablets/google-nexus-10/4505-3126_7-35513295.html
The Nexus 10 is manufactured by Samsung and houses the company’s new 1.7GHz dual-core Exynos 5250 processor, with ARM's Mali-T604 GPU. The tablet also ships with Android 4.2, includes 2GB of RAM, Bluetooth 4.0, NFC (near-field communication), micro USB, micro HDMI, a 1.9-megapixel front-facing camera and a a 5-megapixel back camera with LED flash. The Nexus 10 will not include a microSD slot.

686Owner
10-29-2012, 15:42
Apple can win when their products are innovative at launch.
They'll lose if their products are 6 months old at launch.

Things like memory and screen resolution matter no matter the OS

For example there's a 9.6", 3840 x 2160 resolution, 458PPI screen introduced today (http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20121025/247705/). By this time next year similar screens will be on 7" Android tablets while Apple will be stuck in the tablet equivalent of VGA.

You mean like when the iPhone was launched, there was no appstore, it was only 2G and did not do MMS messaging?

I would not say that having the best specs is synonymous with being innovative. Is putting in more RAM or a faster processor really innovative? Or a screen with more resolution?