Health Care Right Now! Wake up America!!!! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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mgs
10-24-2012, 07:21
This was just posted on another form....it has started. BTW...they just removed my 75 year old Mother In Law from dialysis and she will die soon I'm sure.....bastards!

Sept. 20, 2012

I'm a 67-year-old former Marine & a Vietnam veteran. I say: "Forget about living to age 75 in the USA!"

This morning at Danbury Hospital here in Connecticut, I was scheduled for a cardio-lite stress test. This is a treadmill stress test where nuclear dye is injected into your bloodstream and you are put in a CAT scan or something similar in order to take a picture of your heart. If all is good, the heart shows up red; if there are blocked arteries anywhere, the heart shows up pink. I have had three of these tests in the past twelve years due to blocked arteries discovered in 2000. They use the test to determine if I need a "roto rooter" or a bypass operation.

So, I arrived for my previously schedule appointment at the hospital at 8 a.m. this morning and in the process of checking in, the lady in the front desk said that my appointment has been canceled. She made a call, spoke with someone, and then she handed me the phone. It was a nurse in the Cardiology Department who said that my medical insurance carrier denied the procedure.

I said, "It is a routine part of my heart maintenance program as ordered by my PCP and with approval from my cardiologist who is the head of Danbury Cardiology Department, which is right where I am standing right now."

She went, "Yes, but our request was denied."

So I said, "I have Medicare, so what is my backup insurance doing denying anything."

Then the bombshell. . .she said, "It was the Medicare Board that denied the procedure."

At that point, I turned to everyone behind me, and it was a long line, and I said to them "Well, you won't have to wait too long today because my stress test procedure was just canceled by a Medicare Death Panel. I am only 67 so can you imagine what is going to happen when we really get old?"

The entire waiting room and everyone there from patients to staff just went dead silent.

Then, I turned to the front desk staff and told them, "I guess I will have to write a letter to the editor of the Danbury News Times and call my senators and congressman and let them know the Death Panels have already convened".

Then I walked out.

By the time I got home the message machine was blinking. My PCP had called and so did the hospital and guess what? Medicare decided to approve my stress test procedure, and I should get back down to the hospital, and they would fit me in right away for the 3-hour procedure.

I called back and told them that I couldn't make it, I was going fishing because I didn't know how many more fishing trips I could get in before I went into cardiac arrest, but not to worry about me costing the government any money because I am a 30% disabled Army veteran due to Agent Orange poisoning which is what caused this heart problem to begin with, and I qualify to be buried for free in a plain pine box in the cheap graves section at any national cemetery. I certainly don't want to cost our government any money. So, maybe we just won't do the procedure anymore and we can use the money to redistribute it to all of the illegals to keep them alive so they can mow the lawns at the national cemeteries.

And so this note is for everyone to know that the Death Panel crap has already started. And if we don't vote this guy and his criminal cronies out of office this November, then we should all expect to die younger and as completely broke paupers as the country goes further down to hell.

Feel free to distribute my note to anyone and make it your mission to not only make your vote count in November 2012 but on behalf of all of us, please also make an effort to help convince everyone to NOT vote for the present White House occupant or any of his cronies in the November 2012 election if they want to receive proper medical care and expect to live to age 75 or older!

Another forwarded email message from another Marine:

Dr. Suzanne Allen, the head of Emergency Services at the Johnson City Medical Center in Johnson City, Tennessee, was recently asked if she has seen any effects of ObamaCare in her work.

Her reply was: "Oh, yes. We are already seeing cutbacks on the services we provide. For example, we are now having to deal with patients who would normally receive dialysis, who no longer can. In the past, there was always automatic approval under Medicare for anyone who needed dialysis -- not anymore."

When asked what the outcome will be. "The patient will die sooner without dialysis," she replied.

What about other services?

She said that as of 2013 (after the election), no one over 75 will be given major medical procedures unless approved by the government-appointed local Ethics Panel. These Panels will determine whether a patient should receive medical treatment or not. Dr. Allen points out that most life-threatening emergencies do not occur during normal hospital business hours, and if there are emergencies that need to be resolved within minutes or few hours, the likelihood of getting these Panels' approval in time to save a patient life is going to be very challenging and difficult, if not impossible. This applies to operations such as stent placement, bypass surgery, kidney operation, or treating an aneurysm which are normally covered under Medicare today. In other words, starting in 2013, if you needed a life-saving operation, it is likely that Medicare might not provide coverage anymore, or if it does, it will require approval by a government appointed Ethics Panel if you are age 75 or over.
When in 2013? "We haven't been given a specific date, it could be in January or July, but it's after the 2012 election," says Dr. Allen.

This is shocking to anyone who will be 75. Her advice? "Get healthy and stay healthy. We do not know the specifics of the actual implementation of the full ObamaCare policies and procedures; they haven't filtered down to the local level yet. But we are already seeing severe cuts in what we provide to the elderly. We have refused dialysis to an individual who was 78 just the other day. We have also refused to give stents to a gentleman who was in his late 80s. Every day, we are seeing these cutbacks aimed at reducing care across the board for anyone who is over 75."

This is a death sentence to those who are over 75....perhaps you should pass this on to your friends who are thinking of voting for Obama this year. Regardless if you have private health care coverage now (I have Aetna Medicare Part B), it will no longer apply after 2013 if the Ethics Panels disapprove of a procedure that may save your life.

Scary! Think about how this applies to you, your parents, and your other loved ones!

If you didn't know about it, as Nancy Pelosi said, "Well, if you want to know what's in the bill, you'll have to read it...." (after it was already passed).

This is an important reminder to stay healthy, and to get your plot at the nearest Forest Lawn Memorial Park now, while they are still available because the ObamaCare Plan is a death sentence to those who are age 75 or older!

Semper Fi Mofak (end of e-mail warning)

Btw, I personally recall the warning I received from a TN Neurosurgeon of a couple of months ago: he said he heard [at a recent conference in DC] from a rep from HHS that beginning in 2013 or 2014, no patient over 70 will be given neurosurgical operative care..only "comfort care" will be allowed.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 07:25
This is what "free" gets you.

JBnTX
10-24-2012, 07:45
Just imagine the power of a government that can withhold life saving medical care just to save a few dollars.

They may start with just the elderly patients, but soon they'll realize they can save medical expenses with the mentally ill, the uneducated, the poor, the minorities, prisoners and other undesirables.

How long before they include YOU?

Mushinto
10-24-2012, 08:02
Just imagine the power of a government that can withhold life saving medical care just to save a few dollars.

They may start with just the elderly patients, but soon they'll realize they can save medical expenses with the mentally ill, the uneducated, the poor, the minorities, prisoners and other undesirables.

How long before they include YOU?

Not likely, they can vote. When you get too old to vote yourself taxpayer money, you become soylent green.

Flying-Dutchman
10-24-2012, 08:04
I have a relative who has early stage bladder cancer.

There is procedure of introducing tuberculosis to the bladder (the amazing things they do today) as a potential cure.

Supposedly there is a shortage of this drug and at 86 it is not worth treating someone this age anymore.

Even the suggestion of buying this drug from Canada was met with a round of BS.

Talk to those in the medical field; Obama Care is here already and there is a lot of evilness in those 2,000 pages nobody read.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 08:07
Just imagine the power of a government that can withhold life saving medical care just to save a few dollars.

They may start with just the elderly patients, but soon they'll realize they can save medical expenses with the mentally ill, the uneducated, the poor, the minorities, prisoners and other undesirables.

How long before they include YOU?

Interesting comment. How much money should the taxpayers be required to spend to save a 70 year old -- or any person's life?

Seriously, give me a number.

Flying-Dutchman
10-24-2012, 08:19
She went, "Yes, but our request was denied."

So I said, "I have Medicare, so what is my backup insurance doing denying anything."

Then the bombshell. . .she said, "It was the Medicare Board that denied the procedure."
In cash we trust.

Never trust the Government.

Never depend on the Government.

JBnTX
10-24-2012, 08:27
Interesting comment. How much money should the taxpayers be required to spend to save a 70 year old -- or any person's life?

Seriously, give me a number.


I understand what you're saying and I agree with you.

But here in our imperfect world with our imperfect government, we find ourselves in this predicament.

Taxpayer money should NOT be used to fund an individual's healthcare, retirement or daily living expenses.

But, it is and will be for the foreseeable future. It's not right, but that's how it is. That's not going to change.

I don't know how much should be spent to save a person's life. All I know is that I fear a government with the power to make that decision.

Carrys
10-24-2012, 08:37
Interesting comment. How much money should the taxpayers be required to spend to save a 70 year old -- or any person's life?

Seriously, give me a number.



I'm with you my friend.......just how much money is society obligated to spend on people whom they don't have any connection to? And why are they "obligated" to begin with?

Would you agree to put a new heart in a man over two hundred years old..........if not then..... you have standards as well, you just don't know it.

I know it's seen as ok when it's a member of your own family.....although I don't understand that except out of greed because they can't or don't want to afford it.....but why is it everyone else's "have to" to pay for others? Especially when/if they're trying to pay for their own family member's care?

I sdimply can't understand a person complaining about not getting something "for free" from the govt when the govt owes them nothing......it's all the rest of the people who are paying. Why do some folks think they are owed or are due something from others, just for being born?

Carrys
10-24-2012, 08:41
I understand what you're saying and I agree with you.

But here in our imperfect world with our imperfect government, we find ourselves in this predicament.

Taxpayer money should NOT be used to fund an individual's healthcare, retirement or daily living expenses.

But, it is and will be for the foreseeable future. It's not right, but that's how it is. That's not going to change.

I don't know how much should be spent to save a person's life. All I know is that I fear a government with the power to make that decision.


Shucks............you didn't have to live that way if you didn't want it, plenty of ways to fund your own way. There still is.

That's the way it is simply because so many folks want it to be.

For one reason, they think they're getting something for nothing.



Until something like this happens and makes them understand the trap................all too late.

JBnTX
10-24-2012, 09:10
That's the way it is simply because so many folks want it to be.



No, it's that way because the government forced it on us.

Obama forced his healthcare plan on America, just like social security was forced on the American taxpayer.

Now millions of Americans are dependent upon government for their very existence.

Don't blame the people, blame the government.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 09:17
No, it's that way because the government forced it on us.

Obama forced his healthcare plan on America, just like social security was forced on the American taxpayer.

Now millions of Americans are dependent upon government for their very existence.

Don't blame the people, blame the government.

Aren't you the guy criticizes those of us who criticize the government?

Carrys
10-24-2012, 09:46
No, it's that way because the government forced it on us.

Obama forced his healthcare plan on America, just like social security was forced on the American taxpayer.

Now millions of Americans are dependent upon government for their very existence.

Don't blame the people, blame the government.


Negative sir.........................the govt isn't forcing anything on you that you don't let them. One can always take measures to support themselves and not be on the govt dole, they simply don't want to pay the cost. They like the idea of getting something for nothing. That's all one hears out of seniors these days.....I paid into it yet they won't give me what I need. They should have paid more and got what they wanted. I did it, it can be done.

But no, they wanted something for nothing. Well, they're getting it now, eh?

NMG26
10-24-2012, 09:58
Navigating through the bureaucratic bs is enough to give you a heart attack if driving there does not do it first.

WarCry
10-24-2012, 10:05
Hey, groovy! That e-mail you're quoting from Sept, 2012??

Snopes is now in the PRE-COG business, because they posted THIS at the end of August!
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/over75.asp

Paul53
10-24-2012, 14:41
Hey, groovy! That e-mail you're quoting from Sept, 2012??

Snopes is now in the PRE-COG business, because they posted THIS at the end of August!
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/over75.asp

Thanks for the Snopes information. Also, dialysis puts a tremendous strain on the body. Dialysis will be with held if it will kill the patient. Dr's adhere to Socrates instructions "above all else, do no harm." Better a person die of natural causes than by a stressful treatment.

ray9898
10-24-2012, 14:48
This sounds like the making of a chain email.

SMOKEin
10-24-2012, 15:00
This sounds like the making of a chain email.

Obviously an Obama supporter....

Louisville Glocker
10-24-2012, 15:07
This is what "free" gets you.

Yeah, it gets you fictional creative-writing chain mails on the internet.

Louisville Glocker
10-24-2012, 15:11
It never ceases to amaze me that people have so much faith in putting their lives in the hands of for-profit insurance companies rather than non-profit organizations. The insurance companies have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits. They are legally obligated to spend as little as possible. That is who you trust? Just because they're a private company?

Enjoy.

Flying-Dutchman
10-24-2012, 15:18
It never ceases to amaze me that people have so much faith in putting their lives in the hands of for-profit insurance companies rather than non-profit organizations. The insurance companies have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits. They are legally obligated to spend as little as possible. That is who you trust? Just because they're a private company?

Enjoy.
Social Security is not working out; so much for Government trust.

Obama Care will be the same scam. Pay $12,000 per year for years then by the time you are sick medical treatment will be means tested, rationed and given only to the young.

No thanks.

If allowed I will take my chances with a health savings account and a low cost catastrophic health policy.

SMOKEin
10-24-2012, 15:23
It never ceases to amaze me that people have so much faith in putting their lives in the hands of for-profit insurance companies rather than non-profit organizations. The insurance companies have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits. They are legally obligated to spend as little as possible. That is who you trust? Just because they're a private company?

Enjoy.

.GOV is your non-profit example? That's an interesting way to look at it.

Allow me to play devils advocate here, if you will. Why would you want a non-profit, who makes the rules, takes the money without asking, and has an awful track record of poor fiscal responsibility, to be the ones making your health care decisions? I'm in the camp that thinks companies looking for profit, in a "free market", have to provide reasonable choices at reasonable cost to remain profitable.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 15:42
It never ceases to amaze me that people have so much faith in putting their lives in the hands of for-profit insurance companies rather than non-profit organizations. The insurance companies have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits. They are legally obligated to spend as little as possible. That is who you trust? Just because they're a private company?

Enjoy.

I guess you could call the fedgov non profit. Amtrak,USPS, FANNIE/Freddie.......

JohnBT
10-24-2012, 15:47
"They are legally obligated to spend as little as possible. That is who you trust?"

Trust has nothing to do with it, you have to read the contract and make them stick to it. No more, no less. At least the insurance companies give you a written contract, unlike the government.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 15:54
It never ceases to amaze me that people have so much faith in putting their lives in the hands of for-profit insurance companies rather than non-profit organizations. The insurance companies have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits. They are legally obligated to spend as little as possible. That is who you trust? Just because they're a private company?

Enjoy.

They are legally required to make decisions that are in shareholders best interest. IOW, maximizing shareholder value. In a competitive market free of government interference that does not mean spending as little as possible.

jbotstein1
10-24-2012, 16:03
I don't think Agent Orange caused coronary artery atherosclerosis.

seed
10-24-2012, 17:00
It never ceases to amaze me that people have so much faith in putting their lives in the hands of for-profit insurance companies rather than non-profit organizations. The insurance companies have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits. They are legally obligated to spend as little as possible. That is who you trust? Just because they're a private company?

Enjoy.

Just wanted to back you up on this one. I try to stay out of the fray here at GT (I used to get into them, however it just isn't worth it), but when I see someone who is obviously bright and with a nerve to jump into the firestorm that is political discussion here with an insight sure to be attacked, I can't help but stand up and applaud you.

For the record, Obamacare is a joke but not because of its public interventions (pathetic as they are), but rather for the capitulations it made and makes to private insurance. Death panels? They are already here... They're called: insurance companies. With their fight to stop or prevent coverage of health conditions and modern medical procedures as well as to sabotage the funding of public alternatives, they've already decided the fate of some people I knew. It is a subject that is deeply personal...deeply.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 17:14
Just wanted to back you up on this one. I try to stay out of the fray here at GT (I used to get into them, however it just isn't worth it), but when I see someone who is obviously bright and with a nerve to jump into the firestorm that is political discussion here with an insight sure to be attacked, I can't help but stand up and applaud you.

For the record, Obamacare is a joke but not because of its public interventions (pathetic as they are), but rather for the capitulations it made and makes to private insurance. Death panels? They are already here... They're called: insurance companies. With their fight to stop or prevent coverage of health conditions and modern medical procedures as well as to sabotage the funding of public alternatives, they've already decided the fate of some people I knew. It is a subject that is deeply personal...deeply.


People need to understand that healthcare is a limited resource that must be rationed. The choice is between rationing along economic lines or political lines.

Economic rationing preserves freedom and ensures the resource will remain abundant. Political rationing does the opposite.

WarCry
10-24-2012, 17:31
Just wanted to back you up on this one. I try to stay out of the fray here at GT (I used to get into them, however it just isn't worth it), but when I see someone who is obviously bright and with a nerve to jump into the firestorm that is political discussion here with an insight sure to be attacked, I can't help but stand up and applaud you.

For the record, Obamacare is a joke but not because of its public interventions (pathetic as they are), but rather for the capitulations it made and makes to private insurance. Death panels? They are already here... They're called: insurance companies. With their fight to stop or prevent coverage of health conditions and modern medical procedures as well as to sabotage the funding of public alternatives, they've already decided the fate of some people I knew. It is a subject that is deeply personal...deeply.

I would add this, as well: The capitulation to the Republicans (who still refused to vote for it). The penalties that were originally going to be applied for not carrying insurance would have been stiffer, making it FAR less of a joke than it is today. The Republicans insisted on this, to lessen the burden, then, as stated, didn't support it anyway and mock the smaller penalties.

The problem remains that this was NEVER healthcare reform. It was intended as health INSURANCE reform - tightening the Medical-Loss Ration in particular, and the restrictions/eliminations of pre-existing exclusions - with the goal of making insurance better for everyone.

Only time will tell if that will work at this point.

certifiedfunds
10-24-2012, 17:34
I would add this, as well: The capitulation to the Republicans (who still refused to vote for it). The penalties that were originally going to be applied for not carrying insurance would have been stiffer, making it FAR less of a joke than it is today. The Republicans insisted on this, to lessen the burden, then, as stated, didn't support it anyway and mock the smaller penalties.

The problem remains that this was NEVER healthcare reform. It was intended as health INSURANCE reform - tightening the Medical-Loss Ration in particular, and the restrictions/eliminations of pre-existing exclusions - with the goal of making insurance better for everyone.

Only time will tell if that will work at this point.

Wrong. The bill was designed to push the industry toward euro style single payor. It wasn't designed to fix anything. Government programs seldom are.

Taphius
10-24-2012, 22:53
Just imagine the power of a government that can withhold life saving medical care just to save a few dollars.

They may start with just the elderly patients, but soon they'll realize they can save medical expenses with the mentally ill, the uneducated, the poor, the minorities, prisoners and other undesirables.

How long before they include YOU?

Maybe this is the start of eugenics here in 'Merica

clancy
10-25-2012, 04:40
That's all one hears out of seniors these days.....I paid into it yet they won't give me what I need. They should have paid more and got what they wanted. I did it, it can be done.


And what should happen to those who work hard and invest their money and wind up losing it to bad investments? Should they start looking for a big cardboard box and develop a taste for dog food?

WarCry
10-25-2012, 08:07
I love the absolute irony that comes from the biggest government push to get people to buy PRIVATE insurance (The exchanges would/will be run by private insurers, not states) has made those on the right start foaming at the mouth and defending peoples' "right" to such forced "socialist" programs such as Medicare.

Psychman
10-25-2012, 08:21
This was just posted on another form....it has started. BTW...they just removed my 75 year old Mother In Law from dialysis and she will die soon I'm sure.....bastards!

Sept. 20, 2012

I'm a 67-year-old former Marine & a Vietnam veteran. I say: "Forget about living to age 75 in the USA!"




Btw, I personally recall the warning I received from a TN Neurosurgeon of a couple of months ago: he said he heard [at a recent conference in DC] from a rep from HHS that beginning in 2013 or 2014, no patient over 70 will be given neurosurgical operative care..only "comfort care" will be allowed.

This is pure crap and totally inaccurate.

Taphius
10-25-2012, 17:20
And what should happen to those who work hard and invest their money and wind up losing it to bad investments? Should they start looking for a big cardboard box and develop a taste for dog food?

Investment is a risk, you know that going in. Want to win big you have to accept losing big.

Shinytop
10-25-2012, 21:55
Agent orange is considered a presumptive cause of Ischemic heart disease.
http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/agentorange/conditions/ischemicheartdisease.asp