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BlackPaladin
10-25-2012, 11:04
8 years, I have carried only my service weapon on duty. Events occurred this year that have convinced me that exploring the idea of a backup pistol would be worthwhile. I am convinced that a J frame size revolver is what I want, with no hammer. It is simple and there is very little to go wrong with it.

I am going to ask a two part question on this.

(a) Which J frame sized hammerless pistol in which caliber would be recommended?

(b) From *experience* where or how would you carry this?

Bear in mind, this would NOT be for off duty carry, only uniformed backup. I greatly appreciate the feedback in advance, this has been on my mind for awhile.

ETA, class B uniform

PIC OF 442 ON PG 3

fat.buffalo
10-25-2012, 11:08
S&W 642 .38 +p

rockapede
10-25-2012, 11:30
8 years, I have carried only my service weapon on duty. Events occurred this year that have convinced me that exploring the idea of a backup pistol would be worthwhile. I am convinced that a J frame size revolver is what I want, with no hammer. It is simple and there is very little to go wrong with it.

I am going to ask a two part question on this.

(a) Which J frame sized hammerless pistol in which caliber would be recommended?

(b) From *experience* where or how would you carry this?

Bear in mind, this would NOT be for off duty carry, only uniformed backup. I greatly appreciate the feedback in advance, this has been on my mind for awhile.

I carried a S&W 642 in .38 for a while as a backup and decided I preferred an auto. My current backup is a Beretta Nano. Nothing really wrong with the wheelgun, just not my preference.

That said, what type of uniform do you wear? If it's class A, your options as to carry location are more limited that if it's say BDU based.

itstime
10-25-2012, 11:38
Smith 642. Again, don't know your uniform.

dp509
10-25-2012, 11:54
I carried a 442, no lock, in a galco ankle holster. I tried the pocket carry, but it dit not work for me.
I recently went with a Kahr PM9 in a galco ankle holster. Less recoil, more accurate and I carry a spare magazine in my weak side pocket in a desantis nemsis magazine holster.

FM12
10-25-2012, 12:32
.38 in an ankle holster. Get a holster with sheepskin padding. Trust me on this!

lwt210
10-25-2012, 12:41
I've carried a lot of back up guns over the years.

I started out with larger autos in a vest holster. Slow and cumbersome.

Then I went to small autos in pocket carry (off hand side) and found that every now and then (not often, but enough to be unsettling) the mag release button would get engaged just enough to unseat the mag just so.

I settled on the Smith 442 loaded with +p ammo and love it to death. Five shots, offside pocket carry, very fast, very stealth, very reassuring to hear those five cartridges go "bang". Mine had a lock on it but has been de-locked some years ago.

I prefer the 442 (I have a 642 as well) due to the dark finish. I can approach cars on traffic stops with that hand in my pocket ready for action and nobody notices it if I have slid it out a bit.

Mine is quite accurate too. Really kind of shocked how good the accuracy is on these little revolvers.

Sgt127
10-25-2012, 12:43
Smith 642.

This holster:

http://www.renegadeholstersdirect.com/page12.html

http://www.renegadeholstersdirect.com/page2.html

And, you're done.

The ankle holster is great if you are sitting in a car or at a desk alot. If I am spending the majority of the day on my feet, I sometimes pocket carry.

BlackPaladin
10-25-2012, 13:07
I appreciate the comments so far. I am set against an auto as a backup for personal reasons. It seems that so far what I am hearing is that the S&W 442 with +p .38 is a good option in an ankle holster.

For the sake of asking, is the 340pd (scandium) worth the weight savings in an ankle carried snub?

Sgt127
10-25-2012, 13:33
Its alot of money to save a few ounces. I think an airweight with +P is about the limit for controllability, If you can handle the hyper lightweight with full on magnums, more power to you, I can't. I shot one once and it was like slamming my hand in a car door. (Think 1970's Buick 2 door) It does add a little extra horsepower, even out of the snub barrel.

ZO6Vettever
10-25-2012, 13:40
We had a "County Mountie" (bet you haven't heard that in a while) that carried a 2' snubbie (can't remember what kind) in his "smoky bear" hat. I seen him do this several times, always the gentleman removed and held his hat for traffic stops. Over coffee I mentioned it to him and he picked up the hat for me to see and I laughed so hard I might have peed a little! Thanks to you all for the job you do!
Joe

Bruce M
10-25-2012, 13:44
My experience which includes the Detonics pictured for a decade or so strongly suggests that the quality of the ankle holster is far far more important than the weight of the gun.

Trigger Finger
10-25-2012, 13:57
I carried a S&W 442 for many years to go along with my Beretta 92 first then my S&W 4506 as a great backup.

I carried it in my off side waistband, which you could barley see in a IWB holster. I could get to it with either hand and it was easy to draw while sitting in a vehicle!!

I always had a problem with ankle holsters. If they work for you then great but mine would always flop around when I was running and I found them uncomfortable. If you carry in an ankle rig you should have your draw down and practice with it.

I am surprised you are just realizing how valuable a backup can be. It was pounded into our heads at the academy as we were taught about the Onion Field incident and several others that occurred on my department. I carried a back up since I graduated the academy!!

collim1
10-25-2012, 14:16
I have carried a 442 on my ankle since 2004. I tried vest carry and couldn't make it work for me.

Good decision to carry a BUG.

SCSU74
10-25-2012, 14:17
I appreciate the comments so far. I am set against an auto as a backup for personal reasons. It seems that so far what I am hearing is that the S&W 442 with +p .38 is a good option in an ankle holster.

For the sake of asking, is the 340pd (scandium) worth the weight savings in an ankle carried snub?

I was going to recommend the 340. Not only is it lighter, but it allows you to shoot .357 mag rounds in addition to .38.

As far as location, I wear mine on my vest in a uncle mikes vest holster. The armor straps pass through the holster and hold it tight. Mine is on my right side, allowing for a left handed draw if needed. I have also heard of officers carrying in a cargo pocket if allowed at your agency. Desantis nemesis are great holsters in either the normal or cargo pocket variety.

I agree with you that a revolver is the way to go as a bug. Many officers don't realize that autos will not fire if the slide is pushed back. Basically if you jam an auto into someone's gut it may not fire..


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

m2hmghb
10-25-2012, 14:58
I don't know if they still make them but they used to make a bolt on shroud for the hammer. If hammerless is needed then a 442 or 642. I would NOT reccomend the superlight magnums that are out there, with magnum rounds some have been known to have the bullet jump crimp and lock up the revolver. In addition the recoil is a lot heavier which sucks for range time and qualification time.

Agent6-3/8
10-25-2012, 15:06
I vest carry a S&W 442 using 5.11's "Backup Belt System" holster. Works very well and is highly concealed. I'm not satisfied with access and the draw however. I may end up giving off side pocket carry a try.


Posted from my iPhone 4s via Outdoor Hub mobile

blueiron
10-25-2012, 15:29
I'll side with the majority here. The 442/642 is ideal.

Scandium frames are nice and are stronger than aluminum frames, so if longevity over thousands of rounds is important, get one.

I am not a fan of .357 Magnums out of scandium J frames. I have been firearms enthusiast since age 12 and they are the most unpleasant handgun I have ever fired. My .454 Casull revolver was nowhere near as brutal, nor was the .500 S&W Magnum I fired. If one is wedded to the Magnum chambering, a Colt Lawman or a M-19/66 with a 2.5 inch barrel is a better choice.

Many tout that the extra power is necessary when the time comes and more stopping power is good, BUT... a defensive firearm requires lots of practice and qualifications. The J frame Magnums are flinch inducing machines. I am against practicing with light loads and then carrying Magnum rounds based on experiences I saw on the range with cops who did this in duty revolvers back in the early 1980s.

A .38 Special +P round with a modern bullet design, combined with good placement, should do the trick.

Patchman
10-25-2012, 17:08
Anyone have experience with Charter Arms' current production 9mm revolvers?

Dragoon44
10-25-2012, 17:25
ANother vote for 642\442.

I carried mine off hand front pocket.

jethro21
10-25-2012, 17:52
I carry a 642 in a Desanti nemesis holster. I used to carry it in my weak side pocket but I now carry it in my weak side rear pocket (5.11 Taclite pants). The back pocket on these pants are large and wrap partially around to my side. The gun fits in the pocket almost on my hip and it is comfortable. Also, the larger pocket it easier to draw out of.

The only thing I would say about a Scandium frame is that when it actually came down to using it in a situation, you won't notice the recoil, but training will be brutal. In my 642+p rounds get painful, I can't imagine a lighter gun with magnums in it...ouch

Steve in PA
10-25-2012, 22:23
I carry a S&W 642 with .38 +P in a vest holder. Never even know it's there.

bikerdog
10-25-2012, 23:40
Well as others have said the 442 is a great gun for just about every kind of carry. My favorite is vest carry. But if you decided on ankle carry the smith and wesson 340 might be a better option just because it is a little lighter and the lighter the ankle gun the better. For the bullet issue. As long as you run bullet weights heavier than 125 gr it is not an issue.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

lawman800
10-26-2012, 01:07
I've carried a M640 for many years and now I have a M642 airweight. The airweight is about half the weight of the full stainless one and only 2 ounces heavier than the Scandium which cost twice as much. Best bang for the buck.

I couldn't shoot full power magnums out of the J anyway so the full stainless was a waste of money and weight. The airweight handles the regular +P just fine and is very easy to carry in the off side pocket in a Mika holster.

I keep my off hand in my pocket with a firm grip on the butt on certain contacts and situations where I want my hand on a gun but don't want to cause alarm by having my strong hand on the grip of the duty gun. People complain about that around here and say it's intimidating or whatever. But it gives me a nice warm and fuzzy feeling knowing I already have a gun in my hand ready to go at a moment's notice. To the outside world, it just looks like I have my off hand in my pants pocket. Low key... heck... it's no key.

You can also get the Bodyguard series 649 with the shrouded hammer instead of the hammerless so you can have the option of cocking the gun for single action if your policy allows for it.

cowboywannabe
10-26-2012, 03:24
unless you have ankle/leg problems id recommend an all steel snubby.

i used to carry a 640-1 loaded with real magnums, just as easy as a "baby" glock but actually concealed better on the ankle.

lawman800
10-26-2012, 08:41
unless you have ankle/leg problems id recommend an all steel snubby.

i used to carry a 640-1 loaded with real magnums, just as easy as a "baby" glock but actually concealed better on the ankle.

I thought that was the way to go until I tried an airweight, huge difference, especially after a long day.

SCSU74
10-26-2012, 09:53
I don't know if they still make them but they used to make a bolt on shroud for the hammer. If hammerless is needed then a 442 or 642. I would NOT reccomend the superlight magnums that are out there, with magnum rounds some have been known to have the bullet jump crimp and lock up the revolver. In addition the recoil is a lot heavier which sucks for range time and qualification time.

For range time/qual time I shoot .38 out of mine. When at work its loaded with .357


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

DaBigBR
10-26-2012, 14:40
The 442/642 gets my vote, as well. I've carried one as a backup for several years. Currently it rides in my left front pants pocket in a Nemesis holster. I've also carried it on my ankle (at that time I was carrying a Glock 27 in the left pocket...current department only allows one backup).

The 340PD and M&P340 are nice enough guns, and the weight difference is nothing to scoff at, but they're over twice the price of a $350-$400 -42 and are even less pleasant to shoot.

SPDSNYPR
10-26-2012, 15:03
For a revolver, I'd go with a 642 in a pocket holster. Ideal location to me in the left side cargo pocket. I've been carrying a BUG there for many years with no issue. They are a lot easier to get to than vest, ankle, or front or hip pockets.

BlackPaladin
10-26-2012, 15:36
Thanks for all of the info.

I located a 442 in stock with no internal lock for $419.00 (total $449.48 with tax) officer price. Does this seem on par with the rest of you?

razdog76
10-26-2012, 16:30
If you are set on a five shot revolver, I saw get a .357. There are a couple reasons, and none of them are so you can torture yourself. Most 38 special, and 357 magnum loads were designed with 4" barrels in mind. There are some exceptions, but IMHO, only hits count, and pounding recoil and muzzle flash is not conducive to accuracy.

1.The .357 snubbies have a slightly longer barrel, which gives a better sight radius.

2.They have a longer ejector rod... lets you clear empty (38 special) cases easier. I used to have to shoot a 60 round course of fire with mine.

3. There's flexibility to shoot two different calibers.

4. I carry a S&W model 38 for my BUG. I have carried Colt Detectives which I liked better. Currently, I think the Ruger LCR's are the way to go. They have a much better trigger out of the box. They seem to sell a lot of them, S&W came out with their own polymer frame version, so they must be doing something right. I have said it many times when this topic comes up, that if they made a 6-shot version, I would buy it tomorrow.

tc215
10-26-2012, 18:35
Thanks for all of the info.

I located a 442 in stock with no internal lock for $419.00 (total $449.48 with tax) officer price. Does this seem on par with the rest of you?

That's too high for officer pricing.

http://www.budspolicesupply.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/4_9

No 442/642's in stock though, but it gets updated often.

lawman800
10-26-2012, 19:22
If you are set on a five shot revolver, I saw get a .357. There are a couple reasons, and none of them are so you can torture yourself. Most 38 special, and 357 magnum loads were designed with 4" barrels in mind. There are some exceptions, but IMHO, only hits count, and pounding recoil and muzzle flash is not conducive to accuracy.

1.The .357 snubbies have a slightly longer barrel, which gives a better sight radius.

ACCORDING TO SMITH & WESSON, THE 640-1 HAS A 2-1/8" BARREL WHILE THE AIRWEIGHT 642/442 HAS A 1-7/8" BARREL, FOR A GRAND DIFFERENCE OF 1/4" OF BARREL.

2.They have a longer ejector rod... lets you clear empty (38 special) cases easier. I used to have to shoot a 60 round course of fire with mine.

I'LL MEASURE BOTH OF MINE, I GOT BOTH J FRAMES, TO SEE HOW LONG OF A DIFFERENCE IS THERE IN THE EJECTOR RODS, BUT IF YOU USE THE RIGHT TECHNIQUE OF SWITCHING HANDS, TILTING THE BARREL UPWARD, AND USING YOUR HAND TO FULLY AND FORCEFULLY PLUNGE THE EJECTOR, YOU SHOULD CLEAR ALMOST EVERYTHING, EXCEPT FOR THE BULGED CASES WHICH WOULDN'T BUDGE WHETHER YOU HAVE A LONG OR SHORT EJECTOR ROD.

3. There's flexibility to shoot two different calibers.

DEPENDS ON IF YOU ARE INTENT ON ACTUALLY USING ANY MAGNUM ROUNDS. OUR DUTY AUTHORIZED MAGNUM ROUND IS WAY TOO HARSH IN THE J FRAMES SO THE FLEXIBILITY MAKES NO DIFFERENCE FOR WORK.

Thanks for all of the info.

I located a 442 in stock with no internal lock for $419.00 (total $449.48 with tax) officer price. Does this seem on par with the rest of you?

Sometimes you find the 442 under $400 but with our taxes and fees, it's all the same or within a small amount that it's not worth the hunt nor the drive. Also, the FFL's here that do out of state transfers charge a lot of money for accepting the transfer, which can be $50 to $100 per gun and most of them lean toward the high end so any savings buying online is negated by the transfer fees... unless you are buying a M1A worth about 2G's.

blueiron
10-26-2012, 19:37
Thanks for all of the info.

I located a 442 in stock with no internal lock for $419.00 (total $449.48 with tax) officer price. Does this seem on par with the rest of you?


I have bought several times from these folks and never had a problem or issue. They have them for $399.95 in stock.

http://www.topgunsupply.com/smith-wesson-model-442-airweight-.38spl-p-without-internal-lock.html

razdog76
10-27-2012, 15:03
Lawman800, I know they sound like semantical differences, but I think they give a slight edge.

I do reloads the proper way and have had cases get hung up always towards the frame. When this happens, it always seems as though a longer ejector would ensure the case clears the charging hole.

lawman800
10-27-2012, 18:26
Lawman800, I know they sound like semantical differences, but I think they give a slight edge.

I do reloads the proper way and have had cases get hung up always towards the frame. When this happens, it always seems as though a longer ejector would ensure the case clears the charging hole.

I don't doubt your experiences, but at the range, using factory Winchester ammo for the last ten years, I never had a problem ejecting cases out of either J frame.

blueiron
10-27-2012, 19:08
A three inch J frame [to ensure full ejector rod stroke] kind of defeats the purpose of a J frame.

razdog76
10-27-2012, 20:28
A three inch J frame [to ensure full ejector rod stroke] kind of defeats the purpose of a J frame.

Huh?

Ejector rod would be the same (depending on caliber) regardless of barrel length. On the .357 models, it is just a little longer to allow the longer .357 cases to clear.

CJStudent
10-27-2012, 20:32
Huh?

Ejector rod would be the same (depending on caliber) regardless of barrel length. On the .357 models, it is just a little longer to allow the longer .357 cases to clear.

Actually, from looking at the various j-frames on S&W's site, it looks like the longer barrels do in fact have longer ejector rods (no j-frames have ejector rods long enough to fully eject .38 or .357 cases like a K- or L-frame does).

fastbolt
10-27-2012, 20:36
I used to carry an older stainless 649 Bodyguard at work as a secondary weapon (older .38 version).

After I bought my first 642-1 I decided the little Centennial Airweight was the better way to go. Of course, I'm a long time revolver shooter (who likes Magnum revolvers), so the lightweight DAO snub was a handy gun for me.

The 442 is nice for having a dark, non-reflective finish, if that interests you, but the carbon steel barrel, cylinder & yoke aren't going to resist oxidation like the stainless steel used in the 642. Your choice. How much daily care & attention are you willing to invest?

I find the Airlite snubs (Scandium frames & titanium cylinders) to be really light to carry, but harder recoiling.

My favorite of them all is the M&P 340 Centennial. It's chambered in Magnum, but I mostly use & carry +P. (They make a version only chambered in .38 +P, originally produced for LAPD use.) It falls between the Airlites & Airweights in weight.

The thing I like best about the M&P 340 is the XS front night sight. Fast & easy to pick up for aimed fire. The Scandium frame makes it expensive, though.

All things considered, the 642 is probably the best deal going, as S&W offers them for great prices through their LE distributors (and some S&W dealers seem willing to offer them for decent prices). The 642 is still their best selling revolver, last I heard. The 442 is a close second.

Where & how to carry it? Depends on your needs. Talk to your firearms training unit or instructor about some methods. Almost all methods have their proponents and detractors, with advantages & disadvantages to carefully consider.

I've been attending some updated training this year. The effective & successful use of the little 5-shot snubs have continued to grow. In one class I attended, the instructor (retired LASD) was able to relate a number of instances where cops were able to fall back on their 5-shot backup snubs to successfully deal with 1, 2 & even 3 attackers.

Nothing "wrong" with some of the better .380's, either. ;)

razdog76
10-27-2012, 20:45
Actually, from looking at the various j-frames on S&W's site, it looks like the longer barrels do in fact have longer ejector rods (no j-frames have ejector rods long enough to fully eject .38 or .357 cases like a K- or L-frame does).

I stand corrected, had to go look at mine... My M38 Bodyguard (made in 1973), Looks like there is at least 1/4" maybe 3/8" of case left in the cylinder when the ejector is fully depressed.

So it does allow for a longer, perhaps 1/8" more ejector which IMHO was a distinct benefit.

Rex G
10-28-2012, 00:40
I will add to the chorus recommeding a 642. Mine is actually an M460, which was a 642 given a certain package of work by the Performance Center back when every little variant seemed to get its own model designation. (That was not a typo! Yes, today's 460 is a monster X-frame. S&W sometimes does re-use model numbers.)

I do NOT think the Air-lites, with titanium cylinders, are a good idea, at least for my hands. Airweight is light enough for me. I sold my AirLight Model 342, as it was past the point of diminishing returns.

My actual present secondary/tertiary gun, for concealment when in uniform, is a Ruger SP101 in a Kramer horsehide/kydex pocket holster, in a cargo pocket. (VertX pants) This may change, as we are switching uniform cargo pants, and it takes a seriously sturdy and large pocket to accomodate such a large and heavy snubby. I may have to revert to ankle carry if I want to keep toting the SP101, or may go back to using the J-frame.

kayl
10-28-2012, 11:35
Get a 442 or 642 pro. The pro models are cut for moonclips, which makes for super easy extraction, even with the short rod. Plus you can always shoot w/o the moonclips.

blueiron
10-28-2012, 12:12
Huh?

Ejector rod would be the same (depending on caliber) regardless of barrel length. On the .357 models, it is just a little longer to allow the longer .357 cases to clear.

The ejector rod on a 2 inch J frame does not allow for full stroke ejection, nor does a 2.5 inch K frame [in .38 Special or .357 Magnum].

Only barrels of 3 inches or longer have full length ejector rods. My 640 [2 inch barrel] has a cylinder face to end length of 1.25 inches and my 66 [4 inch barrel] has a cylinder face to end length of 2.25 inches [both include the yoke].

The effective stroke length is longer on full sized revolvers versus short barreled revolvers.

Clutch Cargo
10-28-2012, 12:13
Not a cop, but I carry a 442 8n the weakside pocket. If I don't need it, a brother might.

razdog76
10-28-2012, 15:20
The ejector rod on a 2 inch J frame does not allow for full stroke ejection, nor does a 2.5 inch K frame [in .38 Special or .357 Magnum].

Only barrels of 3 inches or longer have full length ejector rods. My 640 [2 inch barrel] has a cylinder face to end length of 1.25 inches and my 66 [4 inch barrel] has a cylinder face to end length of 2.25 inches [both include the yoke].

The effective stroke length is longer on full sized revolvers versus short barreled revolvers.

I acknowledged my error a few posts, but the ejector will still be longer on the magnum because the barrel is longer, and the cylinder is longer, and thus will still be IMHO easier and more reliable to eject empties.

lawman800
10-28-2012, 17:08
I acknowledged my error a few posts, but the ejector will still be longer on the magnum because the barrel is longer, and the cylinder is longer, and thus will still be IMHO easier and more reliable to eject empties.

Okay, to put this to an end... I took out both my M640-1 and my M642-5 or whatever it is... and measured the ejectors with my unscientific measuring tape.

The visible portion of the magnum ejector measure 24mm and th+e non-magnum measures 16mm, for a difference of 50% or 8mm... which roughly translates to about less than 1/3" which sort of correlates to the barrel length difference of 1/4" due to the longer cut out of the full underlug barrel.

Then there is the difference in length of the cylinder to accommodate the magnum cartridges, which in itself would necessitate a longer ejector to clear the cases out.

When engaged, the magnum pushes the cases out 25mm past the end of the cylinder while the non magnum pushes the cases out 17mm beyond the cylinder, according to my non-scientific measuring tape.

So now the question is when cases bulge, would that extra 8mm make any difference in clearing the malfunction?

In my years of shooting all my J-frames, I have never experienced any malfunctions and my cases have all ejected just fine when I plunge the ejector with my left or right hand.

razdog76
10-28-2012, 18:30
Okay, to put this to an end... I took out both my M640-1 and my M642-5 or whatever it is... and measured the ejectors with my unscientific measuring tape.

The visible portion of the magnum ejector measure 24mm and th+e non-magnum measures 16mm, for a difference of 50% or 8mm... which roughly translates to about less than 1/3" which sort of correlates to the barrel length difference of 1/4" due to the longer cut out of the full underlug barrel.

Then there is the difference in length of the cylinder to accommodate the magnum cartridges, which in itself would necessitate a longer ejector to clear the cases out.

When engaged, the magnum pushes the cases out 25mm past the end of the cylinder while the non magnum pushes the cases out 17mm beyond the cylinder, according to my non-scientific measuring tape.

So now the question is when cases bulge, would that extra 8mm make any difference in clearing the malfunction?

In my years of shooting all my J-frames, I have never experienced any malfunctions and my cases have all ejected just fine when I plunge the ejector with my left or right hand.

Sure, so in a roundabout way you confirmed that the sight radius is .25" longer plus the length of the slightly longer frame (to house the longer cylinder), and the ejector rod is indeed longer allowing the 38 special case to be pushed farther out of the cylinder.

Besides, I don't think you will ever have a revolver case bulge without having had a KB, maybe sticky extraction, but still the longer ejector rod would be of benefit if there was sticky extraction.

The OP asked for opinions, and I provided mine which were on par with yours aside from going with a .357 for the reasons you confirmed.

lawman800
10-28-2012, 23:05
I've known the magnum had a 1/4" longer barrel from day one because I did a lot of research on the J-frames before I bought mine. After a few years, I decided I didn't need the magnum capability and the extra weight... the Airweight does what I need and is so much easier in the pocket that I don't think I will ever go back to the full stainless.

BlackPaladin
11-01-2012, 02:17
Update:

I ordered a 442 from Buds Police Supply per CT suggestion (thanks!) for $338 shipped.

Will post pics when I can figure out the best way to carry this as a backup. I can't pocket carry it because my pockets are mostly blocked by duty belt equipment. I have BDU pants with lower leg pockets, not sure if I can use these for carry. I figure my only other two options are ankle or vest and I am leaning more towards ankle of those two.

Brick_Top
11-01-2012, 11:54
Ankle carry is dirty work, the 442 will serve you well. I use a pm9 but would have no problems using a small revolver.

Bren
11-01-2012, 12:37
That said, what type of uniform do you wear? If it's class A, your options as to carry location are more limited that if it's say BDU based.

I would think the opposite - I wore both and it was a lot easier to carry a backup when I was in a class A/B uniform by putting on an ankle holster. My brother wears a BDU uniform most of the time as a K9 officer and has the same complaint - he is issued an ankle holster he can't use.

I don't know if they still make them but they used to make a bolt on shroud for the hammer. If hammerless is needed then a 442 or 642.

Not sure why hammerless is needed. I always carried one with a hammer and never noticed a need for anything else. Pretty much everybody I knew carried a S&W mod 60 in an ankle holster, since that's what the state police issued back then.

rockapede
11-01-2012, 13:13
I would think the opposite - I wore both and it was a lot easier to carry a backup when I was in a class A/B uniform by putting on an ankle holster. My brother wears a BDU uniform most of the time as a K9 officer and has the same complaint - he is issued an ankle holster he can't use.


I suppose that depends on whether you blouse your boots or not. With our particular pants (5.11 Taclites) we don't, so ankle carry is still a viable option, plus I've got multiple pockets in which a BUG can fit. I see your point though, it really just depends.

SEH95B
11-01-2012, 19:48
What do you carry for duty?

lawman800
11-01-2012, 22:08
How does the black finish hold up on the 442? I went with the 642 partly due to worry that the black finish will wear off or just get shiny.

Dragoon44
11-02-2012, 20:41
When I first started I carried a smaller rock to back up my primary one.

:tongueout::supergrin:

lawman800
11-02-2012, 21:46
When I first started I carried a smaller rock to back up my primary one.

:tongueout::supergrin:

You guys were advanced enough to carry projectile weapons already?

I thought you carried a femur from a brontosaurus as your primary and you stuck a saber tooth fang in the folds of the animal skin loincloth as your hidden backup weapon?:whistling:

razdog76
11-02-2012, 21:49
You guys were advanced enough to carry projectile weapons already?

I thought you carried a femur from a brontosaurus as your primary and you stuck a saber tooth fang in the folds of the animal skin loincloth as your hidden backup weapon?:whistling:

He just carried two femurs c'mon... It was known as the prehistoric New Your reload.

lawman800
11-02-2012, 22:00
He just carried two femurs c'mon... It was known as the prehistoric New Your reload.

He was also known to take out all of the marrow in his primary femur bone before he engaged so when the suspect took away his primary "empty" or "hollow" femur, he can then use his hidden backup sabertooth fang and successfully subdue the suspect and save the Jurassic day.:tongueout:

That is after he puts on his official police pelt on his head, scratches down an appointment on the cave wall, and follows someone's uber hot Neanderthal woman girlfriend for 7 caves outside of his jurisdiction.:supergrin:

Not sure if Dragoon ever stayed at a Holiday Cave Express though.:whistling:

razdog76
11-03-2012, 21:56
He was also known to take out all of the marrow in his primary femur bone before he engaged so when the suspect took away his primary "empty" or "hollow" femur, he can then use his hidden backup sabertooth fang and successfully subdue the suspect and save the Jurassic day.:tongueout:

That is after he puts on his official police pelt on his head, scratches down an appointment on the cave wall, and follows someone's uber hot Neanderthal woman girlfriend for 7 caves outside of his jurisdiction.:supergrin:

Not sure if Dragoon ever stayed at a Holiday Cave Express though.:whistling:

Don't know about that, but he gets credit for the whole hiding behind a wall of (thrown) rocks thing.:supergrin:

Awww, when will MTPD come back to give some comedy relief? :rofl:

ChrisYZFR1
11-04-2012, 16:02
A Glock 27, doesn't have a hammer and if you hold it right, it kind of looks like a J.

Never carried a revolver, but I carry my 27 with a Gould &Goodrich boot lock. Never have to worry about the holster falling off.

BlackPaladin
11-06-2012, 03:06
A Glock 27, doesn't have a hammer and if you hold it right, it kind of looks like a J.

Never carried a revolver, but I carry my 27 with a Gould &Goodrich boot lock. Never have to worry about the holster falling off.

A Glock 27 is a great firearm, but I think more suited as an off duty than a backup. Wiser people than myself have suggested the hamerless snubby because there is very little to go wrong with it. Since the idea for a backup is that everything that can possibly go wrong "has", for this to be called upon, it can't not work.

razdog76
11-06-2012, 06:30
A Glock 27 is a great firearm, but I think more suited as an off duty than a backup. Wiser people than myself have suggested the hamerless snubby because there is very little to go wrong with it. Since the idea for a backup is that everything that can possibly go wrong "has", for this to be called upon, it can't not work.

Dead on. Additionally, when you have to carry around 26lbs of uniform for 8+ hours, you want to reduce additional weight.

nndavec
11-06-2012, 09:29
The Smith & Wesson J frame 38s can be a fine back up gun as noted by several here. But they do have their limitations as well and most are only looking at them as for use on contact distance shooting. While they do very well for contact shots, they will lack in the hands of most when shooting at distance of say 15-25 yards.

Since most of the 38s discussed are 5 shots with short ejector rods, they are slow to reload. That is, almost never will all the empties clear the cylinder with the first attempt for a timed reload. On the other hand, most are capable of running the Glock 26/27/33s without issues with double the ammo capacity of the 38s.

I believe that the small 38 Special revolvers are superior to any 380 auto pistol being offered now. From the 380s that our guys have brought to the range, the Ruger LCPs and Sig 238s work well. But we have a fairly large number of guys carrying the Diamondback 380s of which I have not seen one complete the course without malfunctions. Even with the malfunctions the guys seem to love them even though they do not work.

For me, I will carry a 26/27/33 size pistol for a back up and make due with the additional weight and size. It appears to be a fair trade off for a more reliable, higher capacity pistol that shoots ammo that can be reloaded from the ammo on the belt. The back up should be considered a possible replacement for the sidearm as well. In the event of breakage or loss of your primary sidearm, the back up would have the same features and be a very capable replacement.



A Glock 27 is a great firearm, but I think more suited as an off duty than a backup. Wiser people than myself have suggested the hamerless snubby because there is very little to go wrong with it. Since the idea for a backup is that everything that can possibly go wrong "has", for this to be called upon, it can't not work.

BlackPaladin
11-13-2012, 20:06
S&W 442, I added VZ grips. The LEO price total including shipping was around $335. Thank you guys for the input that went into choosing this one. I will also be purchasing the ankle holster that Dragoon mentioned.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/130/pb130284.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/pb130284.jpg/)


ETA, I have not shot it yet, actually do not yet have any ammo for it.

SCSU74
11-14-2012, 12:47
S&W 442, I added VZ grips. The LEO price total including shipping was around $335. Thank you guys for the input that went into choosing this one. I will also be purchasing the ankle holster that Dragoon mentioned.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/130/pb130284.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/pb130284.jpg/)


ETA, I have not shot it yet, actually do not yet have any ammo for it.

Get an XS front sight and you'll be all set! Speer gold dots for short barrels has worked great for me fwiw


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

mikegun
11-15-2012, 01:31
smith 642.

This holster:

http://www.renegadeholstersdirect.com/page12.html

http://www.renegadeholstersdirect.com/page2.html

and, you're done.

The ankle holster is great if you are sitting in a car or at a desk alot. If i am spending the majority of the day on my feet, i sometimes pocket carry.

i dont care how much you spend u will not find a more comfy holster then the renegade, it also stays put...