On a traffic stop ever had a firefighter drop tin [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Dalton Wayne
10-26-2012, 06:41
Just wondering what you do if you see an IAFF sticker or the Firefighter drops tin, do you give professional pass like you do another LEO or do you write em up.

I have my IAFF sticker with the retired banner, and my badge and credentials in my car and have never been wrote....

md2lgyk
10-26-2012, 06:51
When I was an LEO, I never had occasion to stop a firefighter. If I had, his tin or sticker wouldn't have made any difference. If you don't want a ticket, don't break the law.

Dukeboy01
10-26-2012, 06:57
Professional, full- time hose draggers get a pass, especially if they're local. I'd throw retirees in that pile.

Volunteer, part- time firebugs and arsonists in training on their way out of the Gall's showroom with more lights, radio antennas, and assorted emergency equipment mounted to their 1989 Honda Civic than is mounted to any three of our marked police cruisers get wrote. Same as mall ninjas.

Kind of off topic, but around here it seems like a significant percentage of the guys who work for Lexington FD have bright red cars or trucks for their POVs. It's a large enough number that I have to wonder if it's a smoke eater thing that I just don't understand?

ron8903
10-26-2012, 07:07
Depends on the infraction.

sheriff733
10-26-2012, 07:09
Full time Fire: Absolutely.

Full time Fire Paramedic: Absolutely

Nurses in any capacity (male or female): Absolutely

Doctors of any kind (male or female): Absolutely

Volunteer Fire: Not so much.

ETA: As Ron said, depends on the infraction and overall attitude, but I'll do whatever possible if you'll work with me on a polite/apologetic attitude and not expect a break.

cowboywannabe
10-26-2012, 07:11
Depends on the infraction.

this...

indigent
10-26-2012, 07:22
Professional, full- time hose draggers get a pass, especially if they're local. I'd throw retirees in that pile.

Volunteer, part- time firebugs and arsonists in training on their way out of the Gall's showroom with more lights, radio antennas, and assorted emergency equipment mounted to their 1989 Honda Civic than is mounted to any three of our marked police cruisers get wrote. Same as mall ninjas.



So what about those of us "Volunteer, Part-Time firebugs and arsonists in training" that are certified to the same level as the "Professional, Full-Time" guys and have better paying full time jobs........

msu_grad_121
10-26-2012, 07:43
So what about those of us "Volunteer, Part-Time firebugs and arsonists in training" that are certified to the same level as the "Professional, Full-Time" guys and have better paying full time jobs........

Not that I'd know for certain, but I think Dukeboy means those guys you'd know as "those guys." As far as I'm concerned, screw those guys.

Someone on here said it best, in my opinion. Professional courtesy requires that you are 1) professional, and 2) courteous. Anything less, and you get stroked, at the very least.

Ducowti
10-26-2012, 08:35
Depends on the attitude and infraction. I was behind a volly for nearly two miles while he obliviously yapped away on his cel (violation here). I pulled alongside and indicated he should hang it up, which he did immediately, with the appropriate level of sheepishness.

10 min later I am stationary and see him fly through a park entrance with too many kids running around - while again on the phone. That time didn't end so courteously for him.


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rockapede
10-26-2012, 09:31
Pretty much anybody who badges me right up front for any reason other than "I'm an off-duty/retired officer and I just wanted to let you know I am carrying a firearm" is going to be on the receiving end of a one-sided conversation about respecting my jurisdiction's laws the same way I'd respect theirs....at least. Firefighter's generally get a pass if I know who they are, but badging me to get out of a ticket epitomizes a lack of class and won't win any points from me.

Mattz
10-26-2012, 10:09
Sure. There are plenty of fish in the sea.

blueiron
10-26-2012, 10:52
Firefighters...

When I was working, we had a bunch of juvenile cretins, led by an IAFF local president, that had a hate-on for cops. They'd file BS complaints on cops, refuse to provide Px information at accidents [long before HIPAA], park Big Red where ever it would screw up traffic, openly refuse to help us in any way, openly state that they wouldn't treat a wounded cop with the same level of care that a violent suspect would get, and openly campaigned against us when we went to city hall to ask for more personnel to achieve per capita staffing parity because "it would take money away from [them]". Even the FFers who didn't agree with this mullet wearing moron wouldn't intervene. That did not sit too well with most of us.

If a FF happened to work at a nearby agency and the infraction was minor/non safety related, have a nice day might work. If you worked for a certain IAFF local, you got absolutely no mercy. That continued for years and still lingers with the old timers.

Dukeboy01
10-26-2012, 10:55
Not that I'd know for certain, but I think Dukeboy means those guys you'd know as "those guys." As far as I'm concerned, screw those guys.

Someone on here said it best, in my opinion. Professional courtesy requires that you are 1) professional, and 2) courteous. Anything less, and you get stroked, at the very least.

This is exactly what I meant.

nikerret
10-26-2012, 11:12
Around here, everyone and their mother, wife, children have a FF license plate. It means nothing other than someone in thier family is or was a FF in some capacity.

All of our small towns have volunteer-only FD's. To get a tag, all you have to do is sign up. No training or abilities required. Of course, all the FD's offer training and will get people to the professionl level, but they have ot work for it and it takes time. Most of them just sign up for the tag and chest inflator.

I know the good ones arond here and also know the worhtless ones (paid and volunteer). I volunteer with the City (onl paid Dept. in the County). I don't have a special tag.

Officer X
10-26-2012, 11:33
As others have said, it depends on the violation and demeanor of the violator.

I do not or will not go out of my way to write another officer, fireman, teacher, nurse or doctor simply to teach them a lesson. If they screw up bad enough and its a serious violation, they have to take their lumps.

I have absolutely no problem with somebody identifying themself or 'tinning' me. I don't find that disrespectful at all.

CanIhaveGasCash
10-26-2012, 12:35
The Volunteer FD around here is full of pompous a-holes, drug dealers, and female hygiene products. Most of them do not get a pass from me. I just wish our chief had the balls to do something about all the driving complaints we get when they break the sound barrier in their red pickup with one flashing red light.

RetailNinja
10-26-2012, 13:13
Just wondering what you do if you see an IAFF sticker or the Firefighter drops tin, do you give professional pass like you do another LEO or do you write em up.


Treat 'em like any other person. No favorites.

Morris
10-26-2012, 13:32
Haven't had one show badge yet. Now some will make sure their uniforms are in plain sight or their emblazoned gear bag is in full view (never mind the IAFF sticker or the Professional FF plate) in a clear attempt to curry a pass. Like anyone else I give a professional courtesy to, it's all about the attitude. Be professional, get professional treatment. Act like a jackwagon, you'll get a financial reminder.

Luckily, the vast majority of our FF/Paras are full time and professional. But like in copland, there is always one of "those guys." We love our local FF department and we take good care of them as they do us. They are professional enough to know not to drop name or tin when they get stopped.

txleapd
10-26-2012, 14:28
Depends on the infraction.

Another one for this.... When i worked the streets, hosedraggers got the same courtesy I gave other cops, paramedics, nurses, ER docs, public school teachers, active duty military, and moms with screaming kids. As long as they all had the right attitude.

Dragoon44
10-26-2012, 14:48
Never had to stop a firefighter ( full time) we did have a problem for a while with the volunteers driving like idiots but we sorted that out pretty quickly.

DustyJacket
10-26-2012, 16:27
Never stopped a firefighter (that I know of) but one guy I stopped expected preferential treatment when he whipped out his Federal ID.
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.
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wait for it ...
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His federal dentist ID.:rofl:

lndshark
10-26-2012, 17:00
Not a FF but I stopped a guy a for speeding and driving with undue care and caution. He was in and out of lanes, close on a few red lights. Driving with HUA syndrome, basically. He whipped out his Lieutenant's badge for "Search and Rescue." His OWN, personal, search and rescue not-for-profit "company." WTF? He appointed himself LT in his OWN "agency?"

At that time I was a reserve and he saw the "reserve" rocker on my badge. He went on to tell me how much he appreciated what I do, working for free and how he could relate, and that we were "very similar." I said: "no, we aren't. I earned this badge, you bought/made yours." Oh yeah, another difference? My car doesn't require an ignition interlock and I'm allowed to drive when/where ever I want, not restricted to and from work. Oh yeah! He wasn't even driving the vehicle that required the interlock!

His reason for speeding? He "had to poop." I can't recall how many fast food, sit-down restaurants, grocery stores and gas stations he passed on his way through town, but from the time I spotted his tomfoolery until I caught up and stopped him, he had plenty of opportunities to do what he had to do. He said "but those are all public restrooms." Yeah. Great. So if you need to search and rescue me, will it be all, like gross, if you have to touch me and I'm covered in blood and gore too? Ewwww.....

Read the front and back carefully, call the bolded number at the bottom within 10 days to set-up a court date. Have a good afternoon, Lieutenant.

hoppyjr
10-26-2012, 17:11
Depends on the infraction.

That was my answer for every stop. Depends on attitude and situation.


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Hack
10-26-2012, 17:13
Never stopped a firefighter (that I know of) but one guy I stopped expected preferential treatment when he whipped out his Federal ID.
.
.
.
.
wait for it ...
.
.
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His federal dentist ID.:rofl:

Which federal agency did he work for? You do realize that federal dentists in the Federal Bureau of Prisons are law enforcement, I am sure. Right? There may be other federal agencies that I am not aware of where something similar may apply.

FWIW eventually according to our own internal news we are supposed to be receiving new credentials that have Federal Law Enforcement Officer on those. But, until then the main way to tell for us is name of agency, and the US Attorney appointment statement.

By the way, ours are not supposed to use their ID for any other than lawful purposes, including as an indicator that they may be carrying handguns concealed while off duty. By the way our federal dentists can do that.

bmoore
10-26-2012, 17:52
I got pulled over by AZ highway patrol about an 1/8 of a mile into AZ when we went to Scottsdale. 71mph in a 65. I even set my speed control about 3 miles early cause I know the limit changes in Yuma and know they scratch coupons for just about anything over. He wrote me a warning and told me he does not typically write Firemen/Paramedics tickets. I was polite from the start of the stop to the end and so was he.

MoCop
10-26-2012, 17:55
Interesting Hack.

And yes I have let firefighters go on traffic stops. They fit into the same no ticket category as nurses, doctors, EMS, Probation/Parole Officers and teachers (sometimes). The volunteer FF's or EMS dont get preferential treatment.

ray9898
10-26-2012, 18:38
There is no all inclusive get off free card for me. It depends on the situation and lots of other factors.

CBennett
10-26-2012, 20:32
Yup, quite a bit actually. It may(depending on what they got stopped for) but never more than once...and some guys didnt get the hint the first time.

lawman800
10-26-2012, 22:26
I've stopped one or two and I give them the same treatment I would to any other cop or military or whoever else... it's all in the attitude first though. If you're a dick, I don't care if you carried 7 badges and 36 empty primary guns and 5 loaded backup guns and your ex beauty pageant winner wife was in the passenger seat, you're getting a ticket.

Happypuppy
10-27-2012, 00:02
It is one of those it depends. I didn't like the ones that demand special treatment as an expectation.


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FiremanMike
10-27-2012, 05:34
I've stopped one or two and I give them the same treatment I would to any other cop or military or whoever else... it's all in the attitude first though. If you're a dick, I don't care if you carried 7 badges and 36 empty primary guns and 5 loaded backup guns and your ex beauty pageant winner wife was in the passenger seat, you're getting a ticket.

Whoa, hang on a sec there.. If she's willing to make out on the hood the car, that might be a game changer..

msu_grad_121
10-27-2012, 05:58
At the risk of hijacking the thread, a lot of people on here are throwing teachers into the same category as cops, FFs, etc. Maybe it's because my psycho former roommate is a teacher and I've got 2 cousins who are teachers, 1 of which is the biggest entitlement-minded confrontational ash-hat societal leech in the world, but I put them in the same group as every other Joe Citizen. Namely, if you're doing something dangerous, or I approach and you start showin your ash, you get written. If you're corteous, I'll likely hand you an insurance cite or some other fix-it ticket.

merlynusn
10-27-2012, 07:57
I don't throw teachers in to the same category. I typically didn't write movers, only fix it tickets. Our court costs are insane now and a regular $25 fine ticket will end up being more than I make in a day once court costs are added in.

I do give Firefighters, Paramedics, doctors, nurses, Military and LEOs courtesy though. Now if they are a total *******, that will change. So far haven't had an issue. Be respectful and you get respect in return. I also give regular joe citizens those same breaks.

Now that's not saying I may give one an earful if they deserve it. I had some military guy explain he couldn't keep his registration up to date because he was serving in another state. I promptly called him on his bull****. I still gave him a warning, though I told him that if i ever saw the car again with the registration expired he'd get a ticket.

Officer X
10-27-2012, 09:15
At the risk of hijacking the thread, a lot of people on here are throwing teachers into the same category as cops, FFs, etc. Maybe it's because my psycho former roommate is a teacher and I've got 2 cousins who are teachers, 1 of which is the biggest entitlement-minded confrontational ash-hat societal leech in the world, but I put them in the same group as every other Joe Citizen. Namely, if you're doing something dangerous, or I approach and you start showin your ash, you get written. If you're corteous, I'll likely hand you an insurance cite or some other fix-it ticket.

I should have also noted military and ems.

Myself included and about a dozen other officers at my PD are married to teachers so there's a soft spot for them

Kingarthurhk
10-27-2012, 09:44
Professional, full- time hose draggers get a pass, especially if they're local. I'd throw retirees in that pile.

Volunteer, part- time firebugs and arsonists in training on their way out of the Gall's showroom with more lights, radio antennas, and assorted emergency equipment mounted to their 1989 Honda Civic than is mounted to any three of our marked police cruisers get wrote. Same as mall ninjas.

Kind of off topic, but around here it seems like a significant percentage of the guys who work for Lexington FD have bright red cars or trucks for their POVs. It's a large enough number that I have to wonder if it's a smoke eater thing that I just don't understand?


Not suprising. No more than BPA's who like green vehicles.:supergrin:

lawman800
10-27-2012, 10:10
Whoa, hang on a sec there.. If she's willing to make out on the hood the car, that might be a game changer..

http://youtu.be/pWJQu12C2Ms

As for teachers... no special treatment for them... although I have had a few ask me out on dates while in uniform.:supergrin:

berto62
10-27-2012, 13:01
How about basketball players:rofl:

http://www.failhero.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/you-are-not-above-the-law.jpg

Glockwork Orange
10-27-2012, 18:16
Full time Fire: Absolutely.

Full time Fire Paramedic: Absolutely

Nurses in any capacity (male or female): Absolutely

Doctors of any kind (male or female): Absolutely

Volunteer Fire: Not so much.



This absolutley...plus throw in any LEO from any
agency...membership has it's priveledges folks! Remember, we don't know who you are until we make contact with you!

DustyJacket
10-27-2012, 18:22
Which federal agency did he work for?

Not sure. He worked downtown Denver.

He was a severe ass.

sheriff733
10-27-2012, 18:25
This absolutley...plus throw in any LEO from any
agency...membership has it's priveledges folks! Remember, we don't know who you are until we make contact with you!

Well, LEO was a given.

I always take care of those who might have to take care of me later.

Have a great day of trolling!

:wavey:


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JackMac
10-28-2012, 08:20
Depends on whether it is an infraction or a criminal offense and that person's attitude. Would likely give a warning for an infraction. (around here you cannot be incarcerated for an infraction and on some infractions, like seat belt violation, court cost cannot be assessed.)

TreverSlyFox
10-28-2012, 22:54
My very First RADAR ticket (70 - 55) turned out to be our Local State Police Lt. in his POV.

NO ticket was issued and I always gave a pass to LEO/FF/EMT no matter full time or volunteer and MD/RN/Military. Though most FF were volunteer in my local area but if you came across as an *****Hat or a serious violation you got the ticket.

Never considered flashing tin or ID disrespectful, but the attitude that went with it determined a lot of my response. Luckily I knew most of the players in my county and I was also a Volunteer FF and EMT.

Schaffer
10-28-2012, 23:01
Not a FF but I stopped a guy a for speeding and driving with undue care and caution. He was in and out of lanes, close on a few red lights. Driving with HUA syndrome, basically. He whipped out his Lieutenant's badge for "Search and Rescue." His OWN, personal, search and rescue not-for-profit "company." WTF? He appointed himself LT in his OWN "agency?"

At that time I was a reserve and he saw the "reserve" rocker on my badge. He went on to tell me how much he appreciated what I do, working for free and how he could relate, and that we were "very similar." I said: "no, we aren't. I earned this badge, you bought/made yours." Oh yeah, another difference? My car doesn't require an ignition interlock and I'm allowed to drive when/where ever I want, not restricted to and from work. Oh yeah! He wasn't even driving the vehicle that required the interlock!

His reason for speeding? He "had to poop." I can't recall how many fast food, sit-down restaurants, grocery stores and gas stations he passed on his way through town, but from the time I spotted his tomfoolery until I caught up and stopped him, he had plenty of opportunities to do what he had to do. He said "but those are all public restrooms." Yeah. Great. So if you need to search and rescue me, will it be all, like gross, if you have to touch me and I'm covered in blood and gore too? Ewwww.....

Read the front and back carefully, call the bolded number at the bottom within 10 days to set-up a court date. Have a good afternoon, Lieutenant.


couldn't make himself a captain?

Hack
10-28-2012, 23:09
Not sure. He worked downtown Denver.

He was a severe ass.

Since he was a severe ass he needed whatever you wrote him up for.:supergrin:

You know I have always said, "Honey is a lot sweeter than vinegar." If one is full of piss and vinegar he needs a little check.

Just as an aside I was stopped Saturday. First time in years. I was able to see his overheads light up, and was paying attention to my surroundings, or trying to. A very minor thing concerning where there was barricades and they were not readily visible from where I was driving.

Fortunately he was kind enough to just give a simple admonition, and didn't even ask for my license. He may have had an idea who I work for, or may have just recognized me from other times on the road, but the subject didn't even come up; so I don't know that for sure. But, being cooperative with him, and not acting the ass makes their lives and jobs easier. FWIW he was quite decent about the whole affair.

lawman800
10-28-2012, 23:16
couldn't make himself a captain?

He wasn't ambitious enough to take the test and promote to that level, I guess. Must have decided the retirement at the LT level was good enough.

collim1
10-28-2012, 23:46
No need for them to drop tin in my area. They all wear their FF t-shirts 24/7.

I try to show them courtesy, but in my area darn near everyone is a volunteer FF. Alot of the full time guys are young single drinkers and womanizers and wind up running into us.

vanilla_gorilla
10-29-2012, 04:11
How about basketball players:rofl:

http://www.failhero.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/you-are-not-above-the-law.jpg

Funny you should post that. Our only female officer is about 5'2. and she was the lucky winner of our "arrest the ex-basketball player who has a warrant" contest. She made him sit on the curb so she could throw the cuffs on him. Luckily, he had no clue.

ultra45
10-29-2012, 07:30
Just wondering what you do if you see an IAFF sticker or the Firefighter drops tin, do you give professional pass like you do another LEO or do you write em up.

I have my IAFF sticker with the retired banner, and my badge and credentials in my car and have never been wrote....

In NYC, in the '80's you would almost always get tagged. Battle of the badges back then. Stil goes on today, but not as prevelant as it was back then. Active or retired it made no difference back then.

One has to understand the mentality back then. In NYC, historically, the police emergency services units Preform many rescue tasks normally handled by firefighters in other cities. With less fires back in the 80's and younger FF'ers not wanting to sit and wait for the bell to ring decided it was better to respond to jobs on there own. They were not dispatched, they listened to scanners. Although well trained to fight fires, they were not trained in rescue or emergency medical situations beyond the norm, as our our ESU cops.

What they failed to get is, at the end of the day we are the police and they are not. It drove the cities politicians nuts. It wasn't until years later they were given clear duties and training and even then they balked (to this day) about some assignments. It did not glorify them, answering a "wires down" was not press worthy.

There is a whole lot more, but for the most part it's over.

S.O.Interceptor
10-30-2012, 21:14
Just wondering what you do if you see an IAFF sticker , do you give professional pass like you do another LEO or do you write em up.


I give 99% warnings. The only thing I really write for is no insurance and driving with a suspended license. Other than that if you screw up so badly that I would write you a ticket, then you're probably just going to jail. And if your license is suspended, you have no insurance, or you deserve to go to jail, you are in trouble, fire fighter or not.

So I suppose that yes, I'd give a fire fighter a break, as long as he/she didn't fit into the above stated criteria.

It is possible to talk your way into a ticket from a warning, but it takes a lot of talking.

....or the Firefighter drops tin....

And this right here would probably earn a ticket too. I really don't respond well to anyone badging me, for any reason. If you're not on duty in the course of your duties, your badge had no business being out. The only reason to do this is because you expect me to let you go.

I don't think I've ever had a fire fighter do it, but if it does happen the end result will not be pleasant.


...and my badge and credentials in my car ....

I'm not trying to start a fight here or bash anyone, but I have to ask, what is the purpose of the badge and credentials? I've never really understood the issuance of a badge to be carried on duty or off duty for fire fighters.

A peace officer may need a badge and ID to take enforcement action and to positively identify himself during that action, or display it so other officers don't shoot him. The badge is a symbol of authority and the ID gives them the authority to act. Why do fire fighters carry them?

The only thing I could see a badge getting an off duty/retired fire fighter is hurt. People probably won't take the time to read it if they've seen it decided to hurt you. I can't see any reason to ever display it.

I don't think any FDs around here have any type of badge on their uniforms, not even their dress blues, and I don't think they issue any at all. Mostly because of the above.

grapony
10-30-2012, 21:30
The Volunteer FD around here is full of pompous a-holes, drug dealers, and female hygiene products. Most of them do not get a pass from me. I just wish our chief had the balls to do something about all the driving complaints we get when they break the sound barrier in their red pickup with one flashing red light.

If your home ever catches fire I hope they go below to speed limit to get there.


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rockapede
10-30-2012, 22:06
If your home ever catches fire I hope they go below to speed limit to get there.


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Well that's just not nice.

bmoore
10-30-2012, 22:36
I'm not trying to start a fight here or bash anyone, but I have to ask, what is the purpose of the badge and credentials? I've never really understood the issuance of a badge to be carried on duty or off duty for fire fighters.

A peace officer may need a badge and ID to take enforcement action and to positively identify himself during that action, or display it so other officers don't shoot him. The badge is a symbol of authority and the ID gives them the authority to act. Why do fire fighters carry them?

The only thing I could see a badge getting an off duty/retired fire fighter is hurt. People probably won't take the time to read it if they've seen it decided to hurt you. I can't see any reason to ever display it.
.

"I need my badge but you guys don't need your badges" Yeah your not the guy who got picked on in high school and then became a cop are you. In 2003 when the entire state was on fire I needed my "credentials" to get through road blocks to go help evacuate people...................because the cops would not go do it.

I don't flash my badge when I get stopped. But it came in handy outside of Palm Springs when I rolled up on a single MC rider down with an amputated left leg at the knee, on my way home from a vacation. The officer who was there was so pale and tunnel visioned he just kept repeating nonsense to the patient like a medic intern doing the one foot circle jerk. I had to show my badge to get him out of the way so I could stop the arterial bleeding. He was so tunnel visioned his auditory senses were gone. Cops...............I love you guys but some of you are funny little guys. "move partner someone actually needs life saving intervention, go set up a flare pattern or something" I didn't really say that, I told him he did a great job.

Sharky7
10-30-2012, 23:11
"I need my badge but you guys don't need your badges" Yeah you're not the guy who got picked on in high school and then became a cop are you. In 2003 when the entire state was on fire I needed my "credentials" to get through road blocks to go help evacuate people...................because the cops would not go do it.

I don't flash my badge when I get stopped. But it came in handy outside of Palm Springs when I rolled up on a single MC rider down with an amputated left leg at the knee, on my way home from a vacation. The officer who was there was so pale and tunnel visioned he just kept repeating nonsense to the patient like a medic intern doing the one foot circle jerk. I had to show my badge to get him out of the way so I could stop the arterial bleeding. He was so tunnel visioned his auditory senses were gone. Cops...............I love you guys but some of you are funny little guys. "move partner someone actually needs life saving intervention, go set up a flare pattern or something" I didn't really say that, I told him he did a great job.

Don't take it so personal. Your job is important just like our job is important. It wasn't meant as that....re-read what he posted.

The examples you gave you could have easily shown a department/city/commission card type identification. To be honest, anyone can buy a badge on the internet today. I am always going to ask for the identification that comes with that badge in the examples you gave above. I am willing to bet 99% of LE will do the same as well.

Re-read SO Interceptors points. I personally agree. Firefighters, State's attorneys, Alderman, City council members, EMT's, etc do not need off duty badges in my opinion. Do they need Off duty identification/credentials - absolutely.

Sharky7
10-30-2012, 23:20
I hate these type of topics in public forums.

I get along great with all of the FF's in my town. I have no problem cutting them a break like I would any other citizen. I won't compromise my integrity, ethics, or risk my job though for something they did.

CanIhaveGasCash
10-30-2012, 23:36
If your home ever catches fire I hope they go below to speed limit to get there.


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The problem is not them exceeding the speed limit, the problem is them driving in such a reckless manner that they fail to exercise due regard for the safety of other motorists as is required by law, like failing to slow for stop signs, red lights, and exceeding the speed limit by such a large margin that they endanger themselves and everyone else on the road, all while using only a single red light to alert other motorists to their presence.

Additionally they have no emergency driving training whatsoever, and most of this behavior is while responding to non emergent calls.

But thanks for adding to the conversation :upeyes:

bmoore
10-30-2012, 23:37
Don't take it so personal. Your job is important just like our job is important. It wasn't meant as that....re-read what he posted.

The examples you gave you could have easily shown a department/city/commission card type identification. To be honest, anyone can buy a badge on the internet today. I am always going to ask for the identification that comes with that badge in the examples you gave above. I am willing to bet 99% of LE will do the same as well.

Re-read SO Interceptors points. I personally agree. Firefighters, State's attorneys, Alderman, City council members, EMT's, etc do not need off duty badges in my opinion. Do they need Off duty identification/credentials - absolutely.


So.........a badge flash will let all other LE know that SO interceptor is an off duty officer and keep him from getting shot. But you are an LE officer that thinks badges can be purchased anywhere and always wants to see a dept ID to back up the badge? Clear as mud.

My dept ID card typically stays in my work "card holder" where i keep my paramedic license, CPR card, ACLS card and my dept ID with my Fire certs on it. My flat badge is glued into my badge wallet. It has only come out 2 times in 10 years that I mentioned earlier. I don't drive like an idiot so the whole flashing credentials on a stop has been a non issue my entire career.

Sharky7
10-30-2012, 23:43
So.........a badge flash will let all other LE know that SO interceptor is an off duty officer and keep him from getting shot. But you are an LE officer that thinks badges can be purchased anywhere and always wants to see a dept ID to back up the badge? Clear as mud.

As I am pulling up to the scene of an off duty officer involved shooting - the flashing of that badge helps along with what he should also be yelling to me verbally to let us know bad guys from good guys.

I am still going to secure the scene and check his commission card for verification.

I do not "think" a badge can be bought anywhere online - they can. Do a google search. Any LE worth his weight is going to check identification on a traffic stop and not just rely in a quick flash of a shiny object. I've had a security guard and a TSA agent attempt to "badge" me.

bmoore
10-30-2012, 23:49
As I am pulling up to the scene of an off duty officer involved shooting - the flashing of that badge helps along with what he should also be yelling to me verbally to let us know bad guys from good guys.

I am still going to secure the scene and check his commission card for verification.

I do not "think" a badge can be bought anywhere online - they can. Do a google search. Any LE worth his weight is going to check identification on a traffic stop and not just rely in a quick flash of a shiny object. I've had a security guard and a TSA agent attempt to "badge" me.

Oh I agree with you, they can be bought anywhere. Galls, you can get them engraved with anything you want.

trdvet
10-31-2012, 05:45
If your home ever catches fire I hope they go below to speed limit to get there.


They're just going to save the foundation anyway. :supergrin:

nursetim
10-31-2012, 09:00
I have to agree with a badge being needed only for LEO for the reasons stated. I has a badge for the vol. rescue squad, for what? For all else, a placard and I'd will get you through check points in a vehicle and an I'd will suffice for one on one encounters, right? So why the badges?

Mayhem like Me
10-31-2012, 09:01
Professional, full- time hose draggers get a pass, especially if they're local. I'd throw retirees in that pile.

Volunteer, part- time firebugs and arsonists in training on their way out of the Gall's showroom with more lights, radio antennas, and assorted emergency equipment mounted to their 1989 Honda Civic than is mounted to any three of our marked police cruisers get wrote. Same as mall ninjas.

Kind of off topic, but around here it seems like a significant percentage of the guys who work for Lexington FD have bright red cars or trucks for their POVs. It's a large enough number that I have to wonder if it's a smoke eater thing that I just don't understand?

My cars are usually Black or white.....HMMM

Mayhem like Me
10-31-2012, 09:04
BTW I don't even look at badges I want to see an ID card that is in date...
Flash me tin and I will ask to see your issued ID card..

nikerret
10-31-2012, 13:18
BTW I don't even look at badges I want to see an ID card that is in date...


Well, I guess I would be screwed. Our Commision Cards only have the signed on dates when a new Sheriff takes office. Our EM ID cards have issue and expiration dates, but most don't carry them off duty.

CJStudent
10-31-2012, 13:48
Which federal agency did he work for? You do realize that federal dentists in the Federal Bureau of Prisons are law enforcement, I am sure. Right? There may be other federal agencies that I am not aware of where something similar may apply.

FWIW eventually according to our own internal news we are supposed to be receiving new credentials that have Federal Law Enforcement Officer on those. But, until then the main way to tell for us is name of agency, and the US Attorney appointment statement.

By the way, ours are not supposed to use their ID for any other than lawful purposes, including as an indicator that they may be carrying handguns concealed while off duty. By the way our federal dentists can do that.

As long as they choose to qualify on firearms. If they do not (it's optional for MDs and Dentists), then they're not authorized to carry firearms on or off duty.

But yeah, they have the same authority I do.

Mayhem like Me
10-31-2012, 14:00
Well, I guess I would be screwed. Our Commision Cards only have the signed on dates when a new Sheriff takes office. Our EM ID cards have issue and expiration dates, but most don't carry them off duty.

I work in the land of Whackers badges are easy to come by...IDcards not so much.

had a guy flash me a CCW badge as he walked up to one of my stops and I said what agency are you working for ?
he said (i'm a CCW holder need help)
me:
Yes I need you to not distract me while I deal with this mess.

Hack
10-31-2012, 14:30
As long as they choose to qualify on firearms. If they do not (it's optional for MDs and Dentists), then they're not authorized to carry firearms on or off duty.

But yeah, they have the same authority I do.

True. We have had doctors and health care folks choose to qualify. PHS cannot because of being who they are under separate rules. Chaplains no longer can, (big mistake, but go figure).

txleapd
10-31-2012, 18:35
At the risk of hijacking the thread, a lot of people on here are throwing teachers into the same category as cops, FFs, etc. Maybe it's because my psycho former roommate is a teacher and I've got 2 cousins who are teachers, 1 of which is the biggest entitlement-minded confrontational ash-hat societal leech in the world, but I put them in the same group as every other Joe Citizen. Namely, if you're doing something dangerous, or I approach and you start showin your ash, you get written. If you're corteous, I'll likely hand you an insurance cite or some other fix-it ticket.

My wife taught for 20 years. I've seen the extra work they put in for our kids, know the crappy pay they get in return, and understand the B.S. they have to deal with.

So, yes.... Teachers get consideration from me.

seagravedriver
10-31-2012, 19:44
In my area, I don't know any full time FFs who carry badges, but we are supposed to carry ID cards. The new guys usually have all the t shirts for the first few years and place IAFF stickers on the front and back windows. It usually wears off after a while.

I have always thought that a badge in a wallet was done by PD, not FD. But it could depend on the area I guess. Though it has been 25 or so years since I have been pulled over, I think I would be too self conscious to ask for a break, or maybe I should? Thanks for the courtesy, I hope I never need it. If you do pull me over, well, I must have been doing something to get your attention. Sorry about the moron FFs out there.

Morris
11-01-2012, 11:37
Let's get back to the real topic: professionalism exhibited off duty, either by bacon bits or hose draggers. The issue hasn't been with professionals because professionals, whether bacon bits or hose draggers, don't flip out tin in order to get out of a stop. Professionals don't drop hints about what they do unless it's absolutely necessary because they are professional enough to realize it's bad form to do so. Professionals take their lumps financially if they get stopped and cited for something they did. Other professionals give breaks to peers or affiliates, when professionalism is exhibited.

rockapede
11-01-2012, 11:51
Let's get back to the real topic: professionalism exhibited off duty, either by bacon bits or hose draggers. The issue hasn't been with professionals because professionals, whether bacon bits or hose draggers, don't flip out tin in order to get out of a stop. Professionals don't drop hints about what they do unless it's absolutely necessary because they are professional enough to realize it's bad form to do so. Professionals take their lumps financially if they get stopped and cited for something they did. Other professionals give breaks to peers or affiliates, when professionalism is exhibited.

Amen to that. Extends to a professional's family as well. My co-workers have specific instructions to write my wife and children (when they're old enough to drive) for anything they'd write anybody else for.

nursetim
11-01-2012, 14:01
Bacon bits? :rofl: :animlol: I am stealing this.

Morris
11-01-2012, 14:09
Dang! Should have trademarked that . . . add it to the public domain like probably cause.

S.O.Interceptor
11-01-2012, 17:36
It's amazing how easily people get offended. My job would be almost impossible if my skin was this thin.

"I need my badge but you guys don't need your badges"


Do you understand the purpose of a badge?

As others have stated, the FDs in their areas don't issue badges either, because they serve no purpose to the fire fighters.

Yeah your not the guy who got picked on in high school and then became a cop are you.

You would be correct, I am not that guy. I chose this profession because of family tradition, and a sense of duty and honor.

Why don't you head on back to GNG with your ignorant "you must have been picked on as a kid" responses? Clearly you're not capable of discussing this topic rationally and intelligently.

Napalm561
11-01-2012, 22:32
First agency I worked for was a small town. The only FF's we had were volunteers. The majority were decent human beings. I never had to pull any of them over. The next town over, on the other hand, well, I may cut them a break the first time, but when I catch you doing the same thing I cut you some slack on the first time......you can bet I'm going to write you. Professional courtesy works when you're professional enough NOT to get busted being stupid in my town.....AGAIN!

Mayhem like Me
11-02-2012, 08:24
If your home ever catches fire I hope they go below to speed limit to get there.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

http://www.fdnntv.com/North-Carolina-volunteer-firefighter-charged-fatality-accident

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/article/2571826


Please do, I have insurance don't kill anymore innocent people.

Hack
11-02-2012, 18:36
http://www.fdnntv.com/North-Carolina-volunteer-firefighter-charged-fatality-accident

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/article/2571826


Please do, I have insurance don't kill anymore innocent people.

I think a balance of being careful, along with a reasonable response can be done. If a fire is occurring in a crowded residential area getting the fire under control is a must, for all of a given area. Just as important as safety during traffic. Of course, I believe the residents need to be responsible in alerting each other concerning fire, or any other danger.

Sent from my communicator.

Mayhem like Me
11-03-2012, 07:10
I think a balance of being careful, along with a reasonable response can be done. If a fire is occurring in a crowded residential area getting the fire under control is a must, for all of a given area. Just as important as safety during traffic. Of course, I believe the residents need to be responsible in alerting each other concerning fire, or any other danger.

Sent from my communicator.

And I agree my post was to make a point just because you have a little red flashy thing on your dash of your personal vehicle does not mean anyone can see you or will yield to you....
posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

DAIadvisor
11-03-2012, 14:00
Depend on if they work in your city, and also, how well known they are.. Usually it's not advisable to write public service employees in your own county, because they have cop friends in adjacent jurisdiction and they'll be looking for you when you drive there. :) Also, just makes you look like a complete ******* when you write up a firefighter.

LC Deputy
11-05-2012, 16:35
Really depends on the situation. Minor traffic....see ya.

Firecop203
11-05-2012, 17:47
I've written both cops and firefighters. Really depends on the violation more than anything.

As far as irritating, I stopped a firefighters wife one evening and she had one of his badges pinned to her checkbook wallet. She opened it up and straight off started with "my husbands a firefighter, my husbands a firefighter, see, here's his badge."

PuroMexicano
11-05-2012, 19:02
I've written both cops and firefighters. Really depends on the violation more than anything.

As far as irritating, I stopped a firefighters wife one evening and she had one of his badges pinned to her checkbook wallet. She opened it up and straight off started with "my husbands a firefighter, my husbands a firefighter, see, here's his badge."

OK, ma'am, press hard, five copies... :whistling:

lawman800
11-05-2012, 19:11
OK, ma'am, press hard, five copies... :whistling:

That's worth about 2 or 3 cites worth of violations... cracked windshield, bald tires, misaligned headlights, worn windshield wipers, items obstructing the driver's view dangling from the rearview mirror, various stickers and decals outside of the allowed area on the lower right of the windshield, etc.:whistling:

IGotIt
11-05-2012, 19:43
Unless they were total jerks or did something so serious or stupid, yeah they get a don't do that again slap on the wrist.

I do get a kick out of how many IAFF decals can be put on one automobile. Let's see, one for each side window, two on the windshield, two for the rear window, the bumper, the license plate, and the FF wearing a tee shirt from work, and a baseball type hat with the dept name in the back window. Did I forget anything?

trdvet
11-05-2012, 19:52
Did I forget anything?

The word FIREFIGHTER at the top of the front windshield and the IAFF license plate.

Ohio Copper
11-05-2012, 20:06
The word FIREFIGHTER at the top of the front windshield and the IAFF license plate.

The offduty emergency lighting....just in case.


" I was wondering what would break first; your spirit or your body."

lawman800
11-05-2012, 22:37
Firefighters do love having that special Firefighter only license plate in CA. It's not a frame, it's an actual plate with a firefighter on it.

http://www.doclogic.de/HP_US_CAL2.JPG

Morris
11-06-2012, 07:12
Yeah, they have the fancy FF plates up here too.