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SC_Dave
10-26-2012, 13:41
Knowing I should not use cast bullets in a polygonal barrel I planned on just loading jacketed bullets. I know Glock like most manufactures say use factory ammunition. How many of you use reloads in your Glock pistols?

Then checking the price of 9mm jacketed bullets I started doing some math. I figure on average it will cost me for powder, bullets and primers around 20-22 cents per round. I can buy 115 gr jacketed 9mm Luger for 22-24 cents per round. I'm seriouly asking, am I missing something here?

So really two questions:

1. Should I shoot reloads in my Glock.

2. Is it worth it to reload 9mm if I must use jacketed bullets?

Thanks for you input guys.
David

unclebob
10-26-2012, 13:55
Over the last 15 or so years shooting 18 different Glocks. Every one of them I shoot reloads. I shoot 7 or more GSSF matches with reloads a year.
Yes it is cheaper to reload for 9MM, but it depends on where and how much you buy. Before you will see any advantage in reloading 9MM. The more you buy the cheaper it is. I also use range pickup brass. I only use new brass for rifle. I use plated bullets, but I get a great deal on them.

sig357fan
10-26-2012, 13:58
1. Yes

2. Buy bulk

Look at the sticky for the suppliers and check the price and shipping for bullets by the thousand.

Group buy with likeminded folks in your area for powder and primers to offset haz mat fees.

And yes, you can shoot lead bullets in a Glock, some do it in the stock barrel, some buy aftermarket barrels.

sig357fan

SBray
10-26-2012, 14:11
David,

A Lot depends on your type and volume of shooting. If you don't enjoy reloading, then I would think it would not be worth it if you can afford factory ammo. Some readers that only go plinking at the local range on occasion, would probably be better off just to find good bulk 9mm ammo priced reasonably and not bother with the time and expense of reloading.

I do not shoot competition, but still enjoy reloading good quality rounds that I enjoy shooting. I think it all depends on your interests, time available, and volume of shooting. 9mm ammo is probably one of the hardest to justify reloading for, since it is pretty cheap to buy from bulk suppliers locally.

JMHO,

Steve

TX Archer
10-26-2012, 14:18
So really two questions:

1. Should I shoot reloads in my Glock.

2. Is it worth it to reload 9mm if I must use jacketed bullets?


1. Sure, if you want to.

2. That's up to you but I think it is. By buying components in bulk, my prices for 124gr PD JHP are less than half the cost of bulk 115gr FMJ and I find it worth my time.

sciolist
10-26-2012, 14:19
I use handloads almost exclusively - about 30K rounds of 9mm in the last year.
115gr FMJ is what, I think 23 cents at Walmart. I load 124gr FMJ for about 13 cents and 125gr moly for <10 cents. 147 and 152gr moly are slightly more.
If you load it yourself, you can combine bullet, powder, primer, power, etc. to suit your purpose.
Of course you should shoot reloads. There is no comparison. You get a much better product for roughly half the cost.

dwhite53
10-26-2012, 14:28
95 percent of what I shoot in my G22 are reloads, with lead bullets. Never have had an issue.

Don't get crazy with hot loads and you'll be fine. My loads cycle the action fine, leave minimal lead in the barrel, produce nice groups, and leave nice rounded corner on the primer.

All the Best,
D. White

DoctaGlockta
10-26-2012, 15:34
I use LRN reloads in my Glocks.

wdphillips
10-26-2012, 16:05
I personally think the key is, "you need to like to reload".

I have spend a great deal of money on components and equipment. More so than I believe I would have spent on factory ammo. But, I like the reloading process and the process of making it work.

And if the price is right... I just bought 1000 rounds of Wolf .223, and 500 rounds of surplus .30-06. :whistling:

And I reload for both. Go figure!

morekick
10-26-2012, 16:06
I haven't seen it mentioned yet (might-a missed it), but another good reason to reload 9mm would be to adjust a load for competition shooting, like IDPA.

I've shot only two IDPA meets, but my brother shoots much more frequently. He reloads 9mm - as I understand it - to a lighter powder charge, just a bit more than what the slide recycle needs, in order to reduce muzzle flip as much as possible.

SC_Dave
10-26-2012, 18:09
I use LRN reloads in my Glocks.

What is LRN? Sorry not familiar with that.
David

sig357fan
10-26-2012, 18:22
What is LRN? Sorry not familiar with that.
David

Lead Round Nose, a cast bullet simular in profile to a FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) of the same weight.

sig357fan

robin303
10-26-2012, 18:28
I have shot thousands and thousands of reloads out of my Glocks of every type of boolit and about 8 differant powders except lead. One of my glocks only seen 500 rounds of factory 147 and 124 just to break in the recoil spring.

RustyFN
10-26-2012, 18:41
My G-17 has never seen factory ammo. If you shop around and buy in bulk you should be able to load for half of what cheap WWB cost.

njl
10-26-2012, 19:58
Knowing I should not use cast bullets in a polygonal barrel I planned on just loading jacketed bullets. I know Glock like most manufactures say use factory ammunition. How many of you use reloads in your Glock pistols?

Then checking the price of 9mm jacketed bullets I started doing some math. I figure on average it will cost me for powder, bullets and primers around 20-22 cents per round. I can buy 115 gr jacketed 9mm Luger for 22-24 cents per round. I'm seriouly asking, am I missing something here?

So really two questions:

1. Should I shoot reloads in my Glock.

2. Is it worth it to reload 9mm if I must use jacketed bullets?

Thanks for you input guys.
David

You didn't show your work, so I don't know how you came up with such a high price for reloading 9mm ammo. It costs me more like $0.13 per round to load 124gr jacketed 9mm. 147gr may add another penny or two per round. Buy your bullets, powders, and primers in bulk. Reuse (better yet, get for free and reuse) your brass, and it's definitely worth it to reload all your centerfire ammo (with the possible exception of some of the common Russian calibers).

My old range just advertised that they're now selling Atlanta Arms ammo. By the case (1000 rounds), it's 9mm 147gr = $264.99, .40 180gr = $279.99, .45 230gr = $319.99. I can make comparable 9mm and .45 (I don't shoot .40) for half those prices or less.

It helps a lot if you normally shoot at a range where it's possible to pick up other people's left behind brass or you have non-reloading friends who pick up and give you their brass. Finding 50-100-200 9mm or .45acp brass every now and then adds up.

SC_Dave
10-26-2012, 20:29
You didn't show your work, so I don't know how you came up with such a high price for reloading 9mm ammo. It costs me more like $0.13 per round to load 124gr jacketed 9mm. 147gr may add another penny or two per round. Buy your bullets, powders, and primers in bulk. Reuse (better yet, get for free and reuse) your brass, and it's definitely worth it to reload all your centerfire ammo (with the possible exception of some of the common Russian calibers).

My old range just advertised that they're now selling Atlanta Arms ammo. By the case (1000 rounds), it's 9mm 147gr = $264.99, .40 180gr = $279.99, .45 230gr = $319.99. I can make comparable 9mm and .45 (I don't shoot .40) for half those prices or less.

It helps a lot if you normally shoot at a range where it's possible to pick up other people's left behind brass or you have non-reloading friends who pick up and give you their brass. Finding 50-100-200 9mm or .45acp brass every now and then adds up.

Thanks njl, I didn't show my work in school either. Hehe

I am sure bulk purchases would help. Maybe I'm not shopping in the right place, I don't know. I am open to suggestions on place to get deals on primers, FMJ bullets and powder. Where do you buy your bullets? To save shipping I am trying to buy everything from one vendor, may not be possible but some place offer free shipping on orders over X amount. I am just getting started and don't have the buying experience you guys have so any help is appreciated

Thanks, David

njl
10-26-2012, 21:14
Thanks njl, I didn't show my work in school either. Hehe

I am sure bulk purchases would help. Maybe I'm not shopping in the right place, I don't know. I am open to suggestions on place to get deals on primers, FMJ bullets and powder. Where do you buy your bullets? To save shipping I am trying to buy everything from one vendor, may not be possible but some place offer free shipping on orders over X amount. I am just getting started and don't have the buying experience you guys have so any help is appreciated

Thanks, David

That may not be practical. To get the best prices, you want to buy bullets from the manufacturer (Precision Delta, Montana Gold, etc.) and those people don't sell primers and powder. Those places generally include shipping in the price of the bullets, and are much cheaper than say Hornady or Speer bullets from Midway or other places, so you're best off getting the bullets from them.

Powder and primers are easy to get together (on a single hazmat [extra shipping charge for hazardous materials]) from places like Powder Valley, Grafs, Wideners, etc. Some would suggest buying your first powders locally in a 1lb jar until you know what you want...but IMO with sufficient research, you can start out with a bulk mail order. I did, and I've been happy with the choice I made.

SARDG
10-26-2012, 21:52
SC Dave- If you are just starting out and are unclear of whether or not you will like reloading OR if you need to develop a load first, you'll likely not be making an initial purchase in bulk. Eventually however you will need to buy in serious bulk quantities. In bulk, using premium components (VV N320 powder and 147gr MG bullets, but not counting brass) my 9 mil loads are about 15 cents each. These are my competition and practice loads in every action pistol competition, for every gun except my Unlimited gun. Using one standard single load for 90% of what I shoot allows me to buy larger quantities of everything; 20K-25K primers, 12 lbs powder, and bullet orders of 3K at a time (limited by weight - not actual need.)

BTW, Glock does not say that reloads shouldn't or cannot be shot, or that reloads will void your warranty. To paraphrase the warranty, it now says to shoot cartridges of SAAMI or NATO specifications.

upstech76
10-26-2012, 21:58
I purchase my bullets from Precision Delta and/or Berry's Mfg. I buy most of my powder/primers locally but do purchase in bulk online from Powder Valley when I have the funds. My 9mm loads run between .12-.14 cents each depending on where I obtain my components. Do you have a local gun shop that sells powder & primers? Got any buddies that reload and can split some shipping/hazmat fees?

upstech76
10-26-2012, 22:03
Also quantity plays a big part in the purchase or reload decision. Before I started releading I maybe shot 300-500 rounds per year. Now I shoot that or more in a month.

shotgunred
10-26-2012, 22:27
1. Should I shoot reloads in my Glock.

2. Is it worth it to reload 9mm if I must use jacketed bullets?

Thanks for you input guys.
David

1. Yes

2.Yes you can save at least half over walmart prices if you buy in bulk and reuse your brass. Most people do not reload so you should be able to pick up plenty of free brass at the range.

sessumrd
10-26-2012, 22:30
Absolutely, if you like to reload and care take care of your weapons. I load mostly lead for my, Kimber Ultra, Kahr CM9, G17, 21 and 29 and haven't experienced any issues, other than I shoot a lot more than I did before.... I do buy in bulk and ordered my last lead from SNS and have been very pleased.

sig357fan
10-27-2012, 00:27
Also quantity plays a big part in the purchase or reload decision. Before I started releading I maybe shot 300-500 rounds per year. Now I shoot that or more in a month.

I've found this to be true, I don't look at reloading as away to save money but to get more "bang for my buck", plus, not only do I buy in bulk, I reload in bulk.

when weather minumizes outdoor activities (read "winter"), I cast and reload the majority of my years supply of ammo, doing things this way keeps me busy when I can't go out and play and I always have ammo on hand.

sig357fan

Arc Angel
10-27-2012, 04:56
Knowing I should not use cast bullets in a polygonal barrel I planned on just loading jacketed bullets. I know Glock like most manufactures say use factory ammunition. How many of you use reloads in your Glock pistols?

Then checking the price of 9mm jacketed bullets I started doing some math. I figure on average it will cost me for powder, bullets and primers around 20-22 cents per round. I can buy 115 gr jacketed 9mm Luger for 22-24 cents per round. I'm seriouly asking, am I missing something here?

So really two questions:

1. Should I shoot reloads in my Glock.

2. Is it worth it to reload 9mm if I must use jacketed bullets?

Thanks for you input guys.
David

Without reading all of the replies:

1. YES! I have over 20,000 reloaded rounds through just one Glock pistol; and another 15,000, or so, through another Glock.

2. You do NOT need to use only jacketed bullets in your 9mm Glock. I have used 10's of 1,000's of PLATED BULLETS in my Glock pistols. To exclusively load jacketed bullets only in a Glock is (A) to be uninformed, (B) just plain stupid, and (C) completely unnecessary.

3. You've been badly misinformed! It is entirely possible to shoot lead bullets in a polygonal (cold-forged/mandrel-formed) barrel. There are hundreds, or even thousands, of reloaders on this board who shoot reloaded lead bullets in their Glocks all of the time. What you need to do is to,

LEARN HOW TO LOAD AND SHOOT LEAD BULLETS SAFELY AND CORRECTLY.

Use a search engine and save me a lot of trite, single-topic typing - OK. ;)




NOTE: Here, you can start with these:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=33855
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=48775

RYT 2BER
10-27-2012, 07:15
I sure ill get yelled at for this but I reload 40 because I think there are big savings in $$


Yet 9mm seems so cheap I just don't think it's worth it to me... 40,45,10mm yes....but for me, 9mm is just cheap and easy to buy

shotgunred
10-27-2012, 08:01
Thanks njl, I didn't show my work in school either. Hehe

I am sure bulk purchases would help. Maybe I'm not shopping in the right place, I don't know. I am open to suggestions on place to get deals on primers, FMJ bullets and powder. Where do you buy your bullets? To save shipping I am trying to buy everything from one vendor, may not be possible but some place offer free shipping on orders over X amount. I am just getting started and don't have the buying experience you guys have so any help is appreciated

Thanks, David

You really have to shop around. Precision Delta is a good place for bullets. I have had a local guy go into commercial reloading. He needs to buy large quantities in order to get a big price break. So he sells bullets 500 at a time for cheaper. I have a gun shop that matches powder valley prices on 8 pound jugs of powder. So the only thing I have to buy online is primers.

If you shoot at a club talk to other reloader and find out if there is a good local source for components. The commercial reloader is less than a mile from my house and I wouldn't have know he existed if someone from my club hadn't told me.

brisk21
10-27-2012, 09:03
I wonder if there are any reloading companies that would cover your gun if their ammo blew it up? Id email around and ask.

M24C
10-27-2012, 09:21
I sure ill get yelled at for this but I reload 40 because I think there are big savings in $$


Yet 9mm seems so cheap I just don't think it's worth it to me... 40,45,10mm yes....but for me, 9mm is just cheap and easy to buy

Personally I would not yell at you that is personal choice is the amount of savings worth my time on 9mm. Yes your Savings is more on the other calibers. To me cutting my cost in half for 9mm is worth it. What that really translates to is double my shooting. :D

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

M24C
10-27-2012, 09:27
To Answer the question at hand all the combination of Glocks I own, well over 90% of them shoot reloads. Most of the exceptions is Defense loads. I periodically shoot through them. The other thing I do enjoy the reloading process. Of course the Dillon 550b makes it easier too :D

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

njl
10-27-2012, 09:46
I sure ill get yelled at for this but I reload 40 because I think there are big savings in $$


Yet 9mm seems so cheap I just don't think it's worth it to me... 40,45,10mm yes....but for me, 9mm is just cheap and easy to buy

That's fine. More free 9mm brass for the rest of us.

TX Archer
10-27-2012, 10:50
I sure ill get yelled at for this but I reload 40 because I think there are big savings in $$


Yet 9mm seems so cheap I just don't think it's worth it to me... 40,45,10mm yes....but for me, 9mm is just cheap and easy to buy
It's a personal decision and I respect anyone's choice. Personally, I like cutting my cost in half. I wish I could do that with more expenses.

F106 Fan
10-27-2012, 14:51
This is a reloading forum on Glock Talk. Of course we shoot reloads through our Glocks. Mine has never seen a factory round.

Whether reloading 9mm makes sense depends entirely on volume. If all you need is a couple of thousand, go to Wally World! OTOH, if you want to load ten thousand, reloading makes all the sense in the world.

I reloaded jacketed 9mm for my grandson because, by edict from the powers that be, he isn't allowed to shoot lead bullets. If it weren't for that, my cost to make 9mm would be about $100/1000 or $5/box of 50. As it is, I loaded Precision Delta 115 gr for about $122/1000. The only way to get that down is to use cheaper primers since they make up $30/1000 of the cost.

There are a lot of people who make the case that it isn't worth reloading 9mm. Perhaps not. But it is a good excuse to buy a 650 for loading 9mm and .223! "Gee, honey, I can save a lot of money reloading ammo for our grandson if I buy this new press." It actually works, more or less...

It's all the more believable because I don't shoot 9mm or .223. I'm strictly in the .45 ACP and .308 camp.

Richard

SC_Dave
10-27-2012, 16:05
This is a reloading forum on Glock Talk. Of course we shoot reloads through our Glocks. Mine has never seen a factory round.

Exactly why I asked here. I wanted the truth and I knew I'd get the truth. There is a SEA of misinformation out there from a lot of people that don't know their a** from third base. :)

SARDG
10-27-2012, 16:59
Without reading all of the replies:

2. You do NOT need to use only jacketed bullets in your 9mm Glock. I have used 10's of 1,000's of PLATED BULLETS in my Glock pistols. To exclusively load jacketed bullets only in a Glock is
(A) to be uninformed,
(B) just plain stupid, and
(C) completely unnecessary...
Thems harsh words partner...

I have never loaded a plated bullet, and very likely never will, but I've read about a billion posts on here with noobs with no reloading experience whatsoever who go out and buy plated bullets for their first dance with their press, only to find out
(A) Plated bullets offer virtually no cost savings over jacketed
(B) Load data is non-existent
(C) Plated bullets are susceptible to over-crimping - as a noob may do, and
(D) Velocity is limited to ~1200fps

Why would a new reloader want to shoot himself in the foot and begin this endeavor with plated bullets and their caveats, when most are struggling with things like press setup, and even accurately weighing their charge?

labdwakin
10-27-2012, 17:45
my $.02:

I no longer buy factory ammo for anything but .22 Rimfires. I refuse to pay someone else to do something I have the time, ability, equipment, and intelligence to do just as well if not better. Personally, my HK has a polygonal barrel just like Glocks do and I shoot cast boolits in it all the time! Be safe, take your time, and check your work and everything should be just fine!

Read the stickies at the top of this section. There's a WEALTH of useful information in them.

Smoker
10-27-2012, 18:57
Read the hundreds of threads that are all ready here, there are tons of them..

unclebob
10-27-2012, 20:07
(A) Plated bullets offer virtually no cost savings over jacketed
(B) Load data is non-existent
(C) Plated bullets are susceptible to over-crimping - as a noob may do, and
(D) Velocity is limited to ~1200fps

Why would a new reloader want to shoot himself in the foot and begin this endeavor with plated bullets and their caveats, when most are struggling with things like press setup, and even accurately weighing their charge?

(A) What you shoot 1000rds for I shoot almost 1500 With plated bullets.
(B) That seperates people that reload and the reloaders.
(C) And can cause problems with jacket bullets also.
(D) And If you don't have to worry about a PF.
Plated bullets are not as bad as a lot of people make them out to be.

F106 Fan
10-27-2012, 20:29
(A) What you shoot 1000rds for I shoot almost 1500 With plated bullets.



Where can the rest of us buy plated bullets for 2/3 the cost of jacketed?

It sure isn't from any online resellers or manufacturers. At best, for the rest of us, the difference is a couple of bucks per thousand in favor of plated.

Overcrimping jacketed may ruin accuracy and raise pressure, neither of which is good. But overcrimping plated adds jacket separation and potentially a ring of copper left in the chamber.

Not that it usually matters but jacketed can be driven a lot harder. This is so because the plated bullet manufacturers say not to exceed a mid-range jacketed load.

I just don't care enough about saving a couple of bucks per thousand to bother with plated bullets. If I want a low cost reload, I'll just use lead. They're a lot cheaper than plated!

Richard

SARDG
10-27-2012, 20:46
(A) What you shoot 1000rds for I shoot almost 1500 With plated bullets.
(B) That seperates people that reload and the reloaders.
(C) And can cause problems with jacket bullets also.
(D) And If you don't have to worry about a PF.
Plated bullets are not as bad as a lot of people make them out to be.
:) :whistling:
(A) Too lazy to actually check prices, but most on the board claim very little difference in price... ...and I always believe what I read on the Internet.
(B) But at best, for the first several hundred rounds, you have folks who (sort of) reload, (sort of) safely. Working up loads with no experience or proven baseline is alien to new 'reloaders'.
(C) If you work on it, I suppose you could introduce problems with solid steel bullets, but on average, crimping remains more problematic on plated.
(D) Yeah, I could achieve any PF I need, with plated. I just threw (D) in as a special extra plated bullet enhancement.

I'm also one of the few who didn't begin reloading to save money. I like saving money as a by-product of loading for competition though.

shotgunred
10-27-2012, 22:11
Plated bullets vs Jacketed bullets is a non issue for most of us. In less you are going to run your loads to the ragged edge either will work just fine. I am going to shoot the cheapest bullet that performs well in my gun. Heck right now I am getting some molly bullets to try. Because if they work to an acceptable level I can save $20 a K. By the end of an average year that around $400.

Arc Angel
10-28-2012, 06:28
Thems harsh words partner...

I have never loaded a plated bullet, and very likely never will, but I've read about a billion posts on here with noobs with no reloading experience whatsoever who go out and buy plated bullets for their first dance with their press, only to find out

(A) Plated bullets offer virtually no cost savings over jacketed

(B) Load data is non-existent

(C) Plated bullets are susceptible to over-crimping - as a noob may do, and

(D) Velocity is limited to ~1200fps

Why would a new reloader want to shoot himself in the foot and begin this endeavor with plated bullets and their caveats, when most are struggling with things like press setup, and even accurately weighing their charge?

:) You're very polite; and, certainly, can't be faulted for your, 'internet manners'; however, I would appreciate it if you would not COMPARTMENTALIZE what I have to say by choosing to repeat only PART and not ALL of what I posted above.

Here's the rest of what you omitted from what I said:

LEARN HOW TO LOAD AND SHOOT LEAD BULLETS SAFELY AND CORRECTLY.

Use a search engine and save me a lot of trite, single-topic typing - OK.

NOTE: Here, you can start with these:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=33855
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=48775

Or, ........ you could look at things in this way: With many thousands of reloaders using: plated and lead bullets in their Glocks, everyday, WHAT is this fellow doing coming onto a (I believe) sophisticated internet gun board to state that, 'HE KNOWS' lead bullets shouldn't be used in a Glock?

Sako uses polygonal rifling. Sako has, to my knowledge, never made this formal recommendation.

Heckler & Koch uses polygonal rifling. Last time I checked H&K had issued no such warning.

Neither you, nor I are responsible for new reloaders, 'shooting themselves in the foot'. Furthermore, as far as I'm concerned, an inordinately high percentage of new reloaders are exceedingly ill-trained as well as ill-prepared to reload ammunition at home.

The reloading practices I see recommended and mentioned all of the time on modern internet gun boards, describe reloading practices and procedures that none of the reloaders in my generation would have ever attempted. We were careful; and, if we erred, we erred on the side of caution. Among the reloaders I trained and shot with, there was no such thing as, 'shooting your brass until the cases ruptured' - An internet recommendation that I frequently see, today; and one that always astonishes me!

Whatever happened to counting the number of times the brass is used? I used to use an, 'alphabet system' to keep myself advised to how often a 100 count box of cartridges had been reloaded. Neither do I think there is even one reloader left (Other than, perhaps, some of the guys who reload 357 SIG.) that trims and chamfers his pistol brass, nowadays.

Me? I, probably, have arthritis in my hands today due in part to the tens of thousands of cartridge cases I trimmed-to-length and chamfered. On rifle brass I always did this; on pistol brass I would, at least, check case lengths with a caliper every 5 or 6 reloads. Because my 45 ACP, and 9 mm pistol loads were, 'on the hot side' I, also, tossed them into the scrap bucket somewhere between the 12th and 15th reload. (I, also, used an elaborate system for checking brass for incipient case head separation.)

From what I read on many, but not all, internet reloading forums today, there are definitely a great many new reloaders, out, there who are prime candidates for, 'shooting themselves in the foot'; and for a whole lot of different reasons, too.

I standby my original comments; and I'll further state that IF the OP takes ALL of my advice instead of just some of it, he'll be fine; his reloading knowledge will increase; and he won't have to ask as many ingenuous Glock or Glock reloading questions on the Internet.

If I, myself, didn't have tens of thousands of rounds' experience shooting lead and/or plated bullets in Glock pistols, I have enough personal integrity NOT to make any such recommendation to others on the Internet. So, ....... my, 'harsh words' remain more than justified. The caveat is - AS I SAID - you've got to take the time, and make the effort to know what you're supposed to be doing.

Just loading up a Glock with some of your, 'home brewed' lead or plated reloads is, as I've already indicated, just plain stupid. :freak:




NOTE: By the way, I disagree with your points A through C above. Apparently you, too, could use more reloading experience, yourself. Have a good day! :cool:

SARDG
10-28-2012, 08:09
:) You're very polite; and, certainly, can't be faulted for your, 'internet manners'; however, I would appreciate it if you would not COMPARTMENTALIZE what I have to say by choosing to repeat only PART and not ALL of what I posted above.

Here's the rest of what you omitted from what I said:



Or, ........ you could look at things in this way: With many thousands of reloaders using: plated and lead bullets in their Glocks, everyday, WHAT is this fellow doing coming onto a (I believe) sophisticated internet gun board to state that, 'HE KNOWS' lead bullets shouldn't be used in a Glock?

Sako uses polygonal rifling. Sako has, to my knowledge, never made this formal recommendation.

Heckler & Koch uses polygonal rifling. Last time I checked H&K had issued no such warning.

Neither you, nor I are responsible for new reloaders, 'shooting themselves in the foot'. Furthermore, as far as I'm concerned, an inordinately high percentage of new reloaders are exceedingly ill-trained as well as ill-prepared to reload ammunition at home.

The reloading practices I see recommended and mentioned all of the time on modern internet gun boards, describe reloading practices and procedures that none of the reloaders in my generation would have ever attempted. We were careful; and, if we erred, we erred on the side of caution. Among the reloaders I trained and shot with, there was no such thing as, 'shooting your brass until the cases ruptured' - An internet recommendation that I frequently see, today; and one that always astonishes me!

Whatever happened to counting the number of times the brass is used? I used to use an, 'alphabet system' to keep myself advised to how often a 100 count box of cartridges had been reloaded. Neither do I think there is even one reloader left (Other than, perhaps, some of the guys who reload 357 SIG.) that trims and chamfers his pistol brass, nowadays.

Me? I, probably, have arthritis in my hands today due in part to the tens of thousands of cartridge cases I trimmed-to-length and chamfered. On rifle brass I always did this; on pistol brass I would, at least, check case lengths with a caliper every 5 or 6 reloads. Because my 45 ACP, and 9 mm pistol loads were, 'on the hot side' I, also, tossed them into the scrap bucket somewhere between the 12th and 15th reload. (I, also, used an elaborate system for checking brass for incipient case head separation.)

From what I read on many, but not all, internet reloading forums today, there are definitely a great many new reloaders, out, there who are prime candidates for, 'shooting themselves in the foot'; and for a whole lot of different reasons, too.

I standby my original comments; and I'll further state that IF the OP takes ALL of my advice instead of just some of it, he'll be fine; his reloading knowledge will increase; and he won't have to ask as many ingenuous Glock or Glock reloading questions on the Internet.

If I, myself, didn't have tens of thousands of rounds' experience shooting lead and/or plated bullets in Glock pistols, I have enough personal integrity NOT to make any such recommendation to others on the Internet. So, ....... my, 'harsh words' remain more than justified. The caveat is - AS I SAID - you've got to take the time, and make the effort to know what you're supposed to be doing.

Just loading up a Glock with some of your, 'home brewed' lead or plated reloads is, as I've already indicated, just plain stupid. :freak:




NOTE: By the way, I disagree with your points A through C above. Apparently you, too, could use more reloading experience, yourself. Have a good day! :cool:

okay.

F106 Fan
10-28-2012, 09:22
I have also shot S&S Casting bullets in my G21SF using a factory barrel. It came out fine - FOR THOSE BULLETS. I have no idea what would happen with other lead bullets and I wouldn't want to repeat the testing every time I got a different batch. It is a given that I will NEVER cast my own bullets so the chemisty of bullet hardness is of no interest.

Since I don't want to do any testing whatsoever, I just changed to a KKM barrel and called it good for lead bullets. I leave the factory barrel in the gun for SD and, if I am shooting jacketed, I will use it. If I shoot lead, I'll just take a minute and change barrels.

Yes, I am lazy! I don't care how the lead bullet vs Glock barrel debate works out. A replacement barrel means I don't have to think about it.

Richard

shotgunred
10-28-2012, 09:45
:)

Or, ........ you could look at things in this way: With many thousands of reloaders using: plated and lead bullets in their Glocks, everyday, WHAT is this fellow doing coming onto a (I believe) sophisticated internet gun board to state that, 'HE KNOWS' lead bullets shouldn't be used in a Glock?

S

Neither you, nor I are responsible for new reloaders, 'shooting themselves in the foot'. Furthermore, as far as I'm concerned, an inordinately high percentage of new reloaders are exceedingly ill-trained as well as ill-prepared to reload ammunition at home.

The reloading practices I see recommended and mentioned all of the time on modern internet gun boards, describe reloading practices and procedures that none of the reloaders in my generation would have ever attempted. We were careful; and, if we erred, we erred on the side of caution. Among the reloaders I trained and shot with, there was no such thing as, 'shooting your brass until the cases ruptured' - An internet recommendation that I frequently see, today; and one that always astonishes me!

Whatever happened to counting the number of times the brass is used? I used to use an, 'alphabet system' to keep myself advised to how often a 100 count box of cartridges had been reloaded. Neither do I think there is even one reloader left (Other than, perhaps, some of the guys who reload 357 SIG.) that trims and chamfers his pistol brass, nowadays.

M
From what I read on many, but not all, internet reloading forums today, there are definitely a great many new reloaders, out, there who are prime candidates for, 'shooting themselves in the foot'; and for a whole lot of different reasons, too.

I standby my original comments; and I'll further state that IF the OP takes ALL of my advice instead of just some of it, he'll be fine; his reloading knowledge will increase; and he won't have to ask as many ingenuous Glock or Glock reloading questions on the Internet.
The caveat is - AS I SAID - you've got to take the time, and make the effort to know what you're supposed to be doing.

Just loading up a Glock with some of your, 'home brewed' lead or plated reloads is, as I've already indicated, just plain stupid. :freak:



Many of the people on this reloading forum have decades of reloading experience. I was reloading before the internet was invented. Yet I find several people here that are much more knowledgeable than I am about reloading.
You are right that high percentage of new reloaders are exceedingly ill-trained as well as ill-prepared to reload ammunition at home. Yet they are going to do just that.
A lot of the information that is given to new reloaders is meant to be when starting reloading play it safe. When someone is basically teaching themselves to reload it only makes since to tell them not to use a fast powder. Don't use lead. Don't push published data, so on and so on. If you are an experienced reloader I could care less what you do. But for the new reloaders it is always a good idea to point them to the easiest and safest way to reload for their chosen caliber.

F106 Fan
10-28-2012, 10:13
Many of the people on this reloading forum have decades of reloading experience. I was reloading before the internet was invented. Yet I find several people here that are much more knowledgeable than I am about reloading.


Back in the early '80s, all I had was the IMR pamphlet and I don't think I had that until the mid '80s. I got my reload data from the guys that owned the LGS; I shot what they shot. I did have a copy of Speer #10 but my loads were, and still are, in excess of that book. In fact, they are 0.1 gr in excess of Speer #14.

The good news is that they are not in excess of the data at the Hodgdon site and, IIRC, they complied with the pamphlet.


You are right that high percentage of new reloaders are exceedingly ill-trained as well as ill-prepared to reload ammunition at home.

As was everyone else back in the day. We just didn't have the resources that are available today. So we bought an RCBS single stage press and went to work. Over time the equipment was upgraded and the process simplified somewhat. But when I started out, I knew just about nothing. I read the book and made some ammo. It shot ok so I made some more. No big deal!

Really, it's still no big deal. I like the idea of recommending a new reloader use jacketed bullets because data is commonly available. That's the way I started and it still makes sense. Make a few hundred rounds and then branch out.

Richard

njl
10-28-2012, 10:52
Plated bullets vs Jacketed bullets is a non issue for most of us. In less you are going to run your loads to the ragged edge either will work just fine. I am going to shoot the cheapest bullet that performs well in my gun. Heck right now I am getting some molly bullets to try. Because if they work to an acceptable level I can save $20 a K. By the end of an average year that around $400.

What plated bullets are you saving $20/1000 on? Particularly in 9mm, I find that there's pretty much no difference in price between plated and jacketed. Moly coated lead can be a little cheaper, but still not by a huge amount. Savings seems to go up with caliber, so the cost difference between jacketed/plated/lead may be greater when you move to .40 or .45acp.

The people shooting lots of plated that I know, who say they're so much cheaper than jacketed, are getting a price break because they're doing group buys of huge numbers of bullets that make my typical 2-4k bullet purchase look like a fun weekend's worth of supplies. I suspect if you bought that sort of bulk from MG or or PD, there'd be a nice price break from them as well.

As an example, 124gr FMJ from PD is $85/1000 delivered. From TJ Conevera you can get Berry's for the same price, or X-Treme for $2/1000 less. If you want 147gr, from these places, you can save $7-$10/1000 on plated depending on which brand you go with.

I haven't been able to figure out why X-Treme 147gr work fine in my G17, but ammo from the same loaded batch tumble nearly every other shot from my G34. PD's 147gr work in both guns. I'm done messing with plated.

smokin762
10-28-2012, 11:26
I just started reloading. I am not experienced enough to answer any technical questions.

I mostly own Glock handguns. A few years ago, I did put KKM barrels in all but my newest Glock for the intension of shooting lead bullets to keep my ammunition cost down. I think, as long as I pay attention to what I am doing while I am operating my Reloading Press, everything will be fine.

As of right now, I have duplicated factory ammunition accuracy. Now, I want to make it better. That was the other reason I got into reloading. I want more accurate ammunition and I donít want to give up my first born for it.

SBray
10-28-2012, 11:30
A friend of mine, a gunsmith by trade, once showed me what is needed to be done after shooting lead bullets. Basically it is running a stiff brush through the barrel to pick up the lead left behind. I believe he used a harsh solvent to aid in this process.

So, my question is, why are Glock barrels any different than any other barrel that can be cleaned out in such a way?

Thank you,

Steve

smokin762
10-28-2012, 11:44
I know it has to do with the type of rifling of the barrel that Glock uses. I think it's suppose to be a different fit around the bullet. I am sure somebody else will come along to give the specifics.

shotgunred
10-28-2012, 11:51
What plates bullets are you saving $20/1000 on? Particularly in 9mm, I find that there's pretty much no difference in price between plated and jacketed. Moly coated lead can be a little cheaper, but still not by a huge amount. Savings seems to go up with caliber, so the cost difference between jacketed/plated/lead may be greater when you move to .40 or .45acp.


I am experimenting with molly because I can get them for $20 a k less than PD for 40 sw. Boxer has been using them for a while so I decide to buy a few K and give them a go.

sig357fan
10-28-2012, 12:10
.....So, my question is, why are Glock barrels any different than any other barrel that can be cleaned out in such a way?

Thank you,

Steve

Steve,

It's not that a Glock barrel can't be cleaned like any other barrel, it's that Glock barrels with their polygonal rifling tend to lead faster than standard rifling barrels so they need to be cleaned more often.

sig357fan

SBray
10-28-2012, 13:24
Steve,

It's not that a Glock barrel can't be cleaned like any other barrel, it's that Glock barrels with their polygonal rifling tend to lead faster than standard rifling barrels so they need to be cleaned more often.

sig357fan

Thanks sig357fan!

Well, since Glocks are probably the easiest guns to clean, I figure the extra attention spent on the barrel would be only a slight trade off.

Steve

F106 Fan
10-28-2012, 13:40
Thanks sig357fan!

Well, since Glocks are probably the easiest guns to clean, I figure the extra attention spent on the barrel would be only a slight trade off.

Steve

It gets down to how often the barrel needs to be cleaned. If leading is severe, fifty rounds may be all the barrel can take. It's more common for folks to clean around 200 rounds.

Two hundred rounds isn't even a day's shooting! If I can't reliably shoot 500 rounds without cleaning, I'm not interested. And if somebody said 'ok, 500', I would want 1000.

It will always be up to the shooter to check the barrel periodically and keep track of which lead bullets cause how much leading in how many rounds. This is a PITA!

I go to shoot! I'm not there to play around with my gun, checking and cleaning, checking and cleaning.

So, since I am on a low energy approach to life, I bought a KKM barrel. It may not be a necessary solution but it is sufficient.

Richard

sig357fan
10-28-2012, 14:51
deja vu all over again......

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1448511

sig357fan

njl
10-28-2012, 15:00
I am experimenting with molly because I can get them for $20 a k less than PD for 40 sw. Boxer has been using them for a while so I decide to buy a few K and give them a go.

I tried some BBI 9mm and am still not sure if it's something I'll order again. I tried some Precision ("the black bullet") .45acp and initial testing suggests they work very well. I haven't shot a whole lot of them yet.

Arc Angel
10-28-2012, 15:27
Steve,

It's not that a Glock barrel can't be cleaned like any other barrel, it's that Glock barrels with their polygonal rifling tend to lead faster than standard rifling barrels so they need to be cleaned more often.

sig357fan

A lot depends on the following three factors: The hardness of the lead, the diameter of the bullet, and the strength of the powder charge. In my experience, if you've got these three things right then you aren't going to have to clean your Glock any more or any less than you normally would.

Unlike a great many incredibly naive and often repeated recommendations on this board, Glock pistols need to be cleaned and lubricated in exactly the same way as any other handgun. Now, should you keep a more careful eye on your polygonal barrel while using lead bullets? Keeping an eye on your bore is always a good idea.

There's nothing magic about Glock steel. The coefficients of friction are the same for Glock pistols as they are for any other gun; but, of course, now I'm toying with the, 'Glock legend'; and some people (the Teutonic gods of Valhalla?) are sure to be upset - This is, after all, the Internet. :freak:

dougader
10-28-2012, 15:48
I ran about 30,000 of 125 grain cast lead bullets through my G19 before all the stuff about lead bullets and Glock KB's surfaced. The thing is, I had never heard of a Glock KB before the G22 came out. Then a 40 cal KB happened at a match. I was standing right behind the guy when it happened. He was pushing 180's to make a 175 power factor (PF) with a fairly fast powder as I recall.

Then all the scientifics about poly this and that came out, so I bought aftermarket barrels for my Glocks so I could run lead bullets. Never did use one, though, for my G30 and never had problems either.

I can say, with total clarity, that I never really had a problem cleaning my 9mm G19 barrel after shooting a match or practicing at the range. If I ran Lee Tumble Lube bullets of my own making, the only mess was from the Lee liquid Alox bullet lube. Talk about smoke! and gummy mess. But it cleaned up easy and was real cheap to shoot. This was back when $5 would get you a 5 gallon bucket full of wheel weights.

I just decided to play it safe and with high pressure rounds like 9mm, 40 SWand 45 Super I have aftermarket barrels. Cheap insurance plus a tighter chamber and then I don't have that nagging feeling in the back of my mind every time I go shooting.

Arc Angel
10-28-2012, 16:07
Many of the people on this reloading forum have decades of reloading experience. I was reloading before the internet was invented. Yet I find several people here that are much more knowledgeable than I am about reloading.

You are right that high percentage of new reloaders are exceedingly ill-trained as well as ill-prepared to reload ammunition at home. Yet they are going to do just that.

A lot of the information that is given to new reloaders is meant to be when starting reloading play it safe. When someone is basically teaching themselves to reload it only makes since to tell them not to use a fast powder. Don't use lead. Don't push published data, so on and so on. If you are an experienced reloader I could care less what you do. But for the new reloaders it is always a good idea to point them to the easiest and safest way to reload for their chosen caliber.

Shotgun, I have no argument with anything you've said: It's all good common sense from someone who's obviously already been there, and done that. (Now that you mention it I, also, started reloading well over a decade before Al Gore invented the Internet.) After reading your comments I guess I do have a pet peeve against many, 'internet reloaders'. Training! (or, more specifically, the lack thereof.)

The vast majority of these guys haven't spent two or three years in a buddy's garage learning how to: Cast bullets, adjust dies, measure powder; and, ESPECIALLY, to correctly crimp brass, as well as catch and fix subtle reloading mistakes in the same careful way that you and I, probably, did.

It's quite common to see the term, 'Certified Glock Armorer' on this board nowadays. However, when I started with Glock Talk, identifying yourself as a Glock Armorer was a joke! Even those who were certified armorers seldom admitted to it; e.g.: WalterGA's sig line, 'NOT A GLOCK ARMORER'

What I, personally, would find refreshing are sig lines or personal profiles that say something like, 'NRA-Trained Metallic Cartridge Reloader', 'NRA-Trained Shotgun Shell Reloader; or NRA-Certified Reloading Instructor. When it comes to reloading in today's world, far too much internet reloading advice from whomever really doesn't cut it - Not even when it comes from people like you or me.

Anytime, anyone pursues, 'truth' on the Internet, a comparison of information, thoughts, and opinions is ALWAYS required. I've already told what I know; it's, now, up to the OP to compare what I've said with what others have to say; and, then, sort everything out for himself.

When this thread started the most popular answer was, 'Don't do it!' Now it's, 'Oh, that's right!' 'Other board members are doing it!' It's the OP's responsibility to, now, follow-through on the information he's been handed. :)

sig357fan
10-28-2012, 17:37
All the talk about new/internet reloaders has given me cause for thought.

We discuss whether to shoot reloads in a Glock or lead vs. plate vs. jacketed bullets but no real mention of application.

I donít have leading issues because the majority of my reloads are light, plinking/practice loads and are not meant to duplicate defense loads.

When I tried to duplicate a defense load using a cast 125 gr. TC in a stock Glock 357 Sig, pushing it to 1300 fps, I got severe leading within 2 mags. Same bullet in a LWD barrel, I could push it to 1400+ fps and never had a leading issue in some 200 rounds fired before cleaning.

I think for the sake of the newbies, we should not only discuss what weíre doing, but what weíre using it for.

Sig357fan

F106 Fan
10-28-2012, 17:52
The vast majority of these guys haven't spent two or three years in a buddy's garage learning how to: Cast bullets, adjust dies, measure powder; and, ESPECIALLY, to correctly crimp brass, as well as catch and fix subtle reloading mistakes in the same careful way that you and I, probably, did.


We must have lived in vastly separate worlds. I bought the RCBS kit, a Speer manual, components and set out to reload.

I only knew one other fellow who reloaded (other than the guys who owned the LGS) and all he wanted to make was fire-breathing .357 loads. We didn't have anything to discuss.

Many people I shot with also reloaded but it never occurred to me to ask about reloading. I figured my rounds went bang, the gun didn't explode and, for the most part, the holes were where I expected. I have no reason to rethink my approach.

This stuff ain't brain surgery and it certainly doesn't require an apprenticeship. Read the book and go to work. Shoot the things and see how it works out.

It's the reading of the books that most newcomers are trying to skip. They want the synopsis from us and, ever trying to help, we give it to them. But the short version inevitably leaves out the boring, but necessary, details.

Read the book!

Richard

Arc Angel
10-28-2012, 18:19
:upeyes: You're, probably, correct. We do live in vastly different worlds. For one thing I went to college with a lot of people who read books; but, I was one of the very few who ever made it to the top of the Dean's List.

I, also, used to work as a real property appraiser, 'Resolution Specialist'. It was my job to step into the middle of numerical and market disagreements between different appraisers and figure out where one or both of them had gone wrong.

So, ....... I would be among the very last people to ever tell you that reading a book is all ya got 'a do. My life experience has been entirely different than yours. In my everyday world people are too often: lazy, excessively self-indulgent, and way too casual, 'horse's feedbags'.

Just look around, the Internet is full of them; and other people's guns too often go, 'kaBoom!' Guess that's what makes the world go round, huh! In my own life experience there's never an acceptable excuse for human ignorance; AND, if the answers were all contained in books, everybody would understand the Holy Bible and be devoted to the Lord Jesus Christ. (But, in this world, that's never going to happen, now; is it!) ;)

shotgunred
10-28-2012, 20:28
I agree with you the number of people who's first post is I have x bullet give me a load can be very annoying. By in large we try to give them something safer than what they really want and try to educate them.

This forum is lucky to have half a dozen guys with more experience than me here that are very helpful and try to teach people. We have also managed to have a laugh or two along the way and have managed to keep the trolls at bay. l just try to remember that a lot of different people have helped me along the way and I should pay them back by doing the same.

Arc Angel
10-29-2012, 08:27
....... l just try to remember that a lot of different people have helped me along the way and I should pay them back by doing the same.

:shocked: Oh, that's good! That's very very good!

Without a doubt I was only able to learn reloading, and only able to overcome my instinctive fear of playing with: powder, primers, and bullets, by turning myself into an acceptable companion to other men who had been reloading ammunition for many years, AND were willing to share what they knew with me.

I went into metallic cartridge reloading very slowly, very carefully, and after reading all of the popular reloading manuals of the 1970's. (and I read very very well.) I had the good luck to become friends with a master pistolero, a man who was one of the best reloaders as well as the best pistolero in our very large gun club.

There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that I became something of a pest to him; and I'll always be grateful for his help. His method was to show me how to do something a couple of times and, then, withdraw with the implied demand that I do it all by myself. Looking back over the years the most important reloading skills this man gave me are my now thoroughly ingrained RELOADING SAFETY HABITS.

We very carefully did things in exactly the same way every time; and, then, went back and checked the partially finished and waiting to be, 'capped' cartridge cases BEFORE bullet and case were finally put together. I know lots of shooters who've blown up guns with reloaded ammunition simply because they weren't trained in reloading procedures and safety as well as I was.

In nearly 40 years of doing this I've had (Ready?) no more than 3 or 4 squibs, and NO overcharged rounds. (I'm very proud of this record!) None of this would have been possible unless two other experienced and highly skilled reloaders had, 'taken me under their wings' so to speak and, literally, shown me how to do everything I'd read about in the various reloading manuals.

You can, by the way, only learn so much from a book. It takes real hands-on experience and an uncommon willingness to slow down and think about it to make really good ammunition - The kind of ammunition that doesn't come from a bucket of once-fired brass and a progressive press. Once it's been properly set up I could train a monkey to run a progressive press! Dealing with all of the mechanical anomalies and things that can go wrong with the components, though, is an entirely different story.

For instance, I used to marvel at internet reloaders who rave about the virtues of a Lee, 'factory crimp' die. Would you like to know what I really think about WalterGA's, marvelous, 'factory crimp dies'? I think these dies are are intended for primary use by lightly experienced reloaders who never learned how to form a proper crimp in the first place!

The real problems with loose (or too tight) crimps start all the way back at the sizing and belling dies, and are carried forward to finally reveal themselves as crimping problems. Sometimes - but not always - these problems can be, 'squeeze corrected' by the use of a, 'factory crimp' die. Other times all the additional circumferential pressure on the case wall will do is make things even looser than at the original beginning of the crimp process.

In my experience really impossible crimp problems are always the fault of the sizing die. Get the sizing die I.D. right and the crimp process should be flawless. Is this a common problem? Well, I owned more than a dozen sets of dies. Of those dozen sets, I sent 3 sizing dies back to the manufacturer for repair.

(Once I even told a Dillon engineer NOT to bell the mouth on my sizing dies. When he strongly objected and told me about all the progressive press problems I was lining myself up for, I told him to just do it and let me worry about properly using it. Ultimately I made 10's of 1,000's of rounds with that, slightly bevel-edged, sizing die; and, to this day, I believe I ended up with some of the best (customized) dies sets ever produced by the Dillon factory.)

'Why' am I telling you this? Because this kind of reloading savvy doesn't come from either reading books or cruising the Internet. It comes, instead, from: serious study, hands-on training, and the personal acquisition of mechanical know-how and experience. Many people can make reloads that, 'go bang'. Me? I used to build ammunition that would actually arouse envy in others every time I, 'popped the lid' on a new 100 count box of reloaded cartridges at a match.

A lot of people who know me personally think that my hobby and, 'first love' is guns and shooting. Know what? They are wrong! My, 'first love' has always been metallic cartridge reloading. For many years my primary reason for going to the range was not to shoot my guns; it was, instead, to acquire more empty cases to reload.

Regrettably, I no longer reload my own ammunition. In 2009 I had a serious heart attack; and, when I got home from the hospital, I looked at my wife, and I looked at that entire room full of reloading equipment and components, and said to myself, 'What's she going to do with all of this equipment after I'm gone?' So, I put an ad on a local PA website and sold over $4,000.00 dollars worth of reloading equipment - in perfect mechanical condition - to the first young man who came along and offered me $1,800 for all of it.

What a great deal that kid got! Now I buy all my range ammo at Wal-Mart just like everyone else. Considering the fact that my time is worth something I, just about, break even on the 9mm. Where I start to lose money, big time, is on the 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, and 5.56mm ammunition; but, what the Hell! We, all, get older. ;)

SARDG
10-29-2012, 10:12
:shocked: Oh, that's good! That's very very good!

Without a doubt I was only able to learn reloading, and only able to overcome my instinctive fear of playing with: powder, primers, and bullets, by turning myself into an acceptable companion to other men who had been reloading ammunition for many years, AND were willing to share what they knew with me.

I went into metallic cartridge reloading very slowly, very carefully, and after reading all of the popular reloading manuals of the 1970's. (and I read very very well.) I had the good luck to become friends with a master pistolero, a man who was one of the best reloaders as well as the best pistolero in our very large gun club.

There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that I became something of a pest to him; and I'll always be grateful for his help. His method was to show me how to do something a couple of times and, then, withdraw with the implied demand that I do it all by myself. Looking back over the years the most important reloading skills this man gave me are my now thoroughly ingrained RELOADING SAFETY HABITS.

We very carefully did things in exactly the same way every time; and, then, went back and checked the partially finished and waiting to be, 'capped' cartridge cases BEFORE bullet and case were finally put together. I know lots of shooters who've blown up guns with reloaded ammunition simply because they weren't trained in reloading procedures and safety as well as I was.

In nearly 40 years of doing this I've had (Ready?) no more than 3 or 4 squibs, and NO overcharged rounds. (I'm very proud of this record!) None of this would have been possible unless two other experienced and highly skilled reloaders had, 'taken me under their wings' so to speak and, literally, shown me how to do everything I'd read about in the various reloading manuals.

You can, by the way, only learn so much from a book. It takes real hands-on experience and an uncommon willingness to slow down and think about it to make really good ammunition - The kind of ammunition that doesn't come from a bucket of once-fired brass and a progressive press. Once it's been properly set up I could train a monkey to run a progressive press! Dealing with all of the mechanical anomalies and things that can go wrong with the components, though, is an entirely different story.

For instance, I used to marvel at internet reloaders who rave about the virtues of a Lee, 'factory crimp' die. Would you like to know what I really think about WalterGA's, marvelous, 'factory crimp dies'? I think these dies are are intended for primary use by lightly experienced reloaders who never learned how to form a proper crimp in the first place!

The real problems with loose (or too tight) crimps start all the way back at the sizing and belling dies, and are carried forward to finally reveal themselves as crimping problems. Sometimes - but not always - these problems can be, 'squeeze corrected' by the use of a, 'factory crimp' die. Other times all the additional circumferential pressure on the case wall will do is make things even looser than at the original beginning of the crimp process.

In my experience really impossible crimp problems are always the fault of the sizing die. Get the sizing die I.D. right and the crimp process should be flawless. Is this a common problem? Well, I owned more than a dozen sets of dies. Of those dozen sets, I sent 3 sizing dies back to the manufacturer for repair.

(Once I even told a Dillon engineer NOT to bell the mouth on my sizing dies. When he strongly objected and told me about all the progressive press problems I was lining myself up for, I told him to just do it and let me worry about properly using it. Ultimately I made 10's of 1,000's of rounds with that, slightly bevel-edged, sizing die; and, to this day, I believe I ended up with some of the best (customized) dies sets ever produced by the Dillon factory.)

'Why' am I telling you this? Because this kind of reloading savvy doesn't come from either reading books or cruising the Internet. It comes, instead, from: serious study, hands-on training, and the personal acquisition of mechanical know-how and experience. Many people can make reloads that, 'go bang'. Me? I used to build ammunition that would actually arouse envy in others every time I, 'popped the lid' on a new 100 count box of reloaded cartridges at a match.

A lot of people who know me personally think that my hobby and, 'first love' is guns and shooting. Know what? They are wrong! My, 'first love' has always been metallic cartridge reloading. For many years my primary reason for going to the range was not to shoot my guns; it was, instead, to acquire more empty cases to reload.

Regrettably, I no longer reload my own ammunition. In 2009 I had a serious heart attack; and, when I got home from the hospital, I looked at my wife, and I looked at that entire room full of reloading equipment and components, and said to myself, 'What's she going to do with all of this equipment after I'm gone?' So, I put an ad on a local PA website and sold over $4,000.00 dollars worth of reloading equipment - in perfect mechanical condition - to the first young man who came along and offered me $1,800 for all of it.

What a great deal that kid got! Now I buy all my range ammo at Wal-Mart just like everyone else. Considering the fact that my time is worth something I, just about, break even on the 9mm. Where I start to lose money, big time, is on the 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, and 5.56mm ammunition; but, what the Hell! We, all, get older. ;)
I have quoted your entire post, lest I be accused of taking something out of context - but have bolded the sentences most relevant to my reply.

Your reply to my plated bullet post - in which you agreed with none of it - pretty much wrote me off as an inexperienced Internet reloader, incapable of making proper reloading decisions and proper crimps, let alone finished match ammo - as I do. I only produce match ammo - that's why I began reloading - and I practice with the same match ammo as I shoot in matches. My 650 may be capable of 800 rounds/hour, but with the other peripheral tasks and spot check of my loads, I may produce ~100 rounds in 20-30 minutes before my old arm gets tired of cycling the press and I go rest.

True enough, I have been reloading for only 8 months, but have been talking up and studying reloading for a few years. I have the mechanical aptitude to set up presses and accessories and trouble shoot problems as they occur and am more safety conscience than any 100 people I know. I have no qualms about costs, and purchase quality gear as I need it. I reload using quality components with high-quality finished ammo in mind - not cost savings. I've never produced a squib yet, but certainly may if I reload long enough.

Your general dismissive attitude (without knowing the facts or the person's capabilities and intelligence) is rather irritating. And although I (as admitted) have never loaded plated, it is clear from 100s of posts here that newbs have a considerable number of problems with them, and that the savings are minuscule. Why throw other potential problems at a new reloader who could just as easily use jacketed bullets to start this hobby? Proper crimping seems to be one of the more confusing elements of the process. Let the new reloader use components and published data where success can more likely be achieved.

I know you will have a witty comeback, and although I shoot a lot of competitive disciplines, I have no intention of getting in a urination competition or verbal sparring with you.

SBray
10-29-2012, 10:19
I have quoted your entire post, lest I be accused of taking something out of context - but have bolded the sentences most relevant to my reply.

Your reply to my plated bullet post - in which you agreed with none of it - pretty much wrote me off as an inexperienced Internet reloader, incapable of making proper reloading decisions and proper crimps, let alone finished match ammo - as I do. I only produce match ammo - that's why I began reloading - and I practice with the same match ammo as I shoot in matches. My 650 may be capable of 800 rounds/hour, but with the other peripheral tasks and spot check of my loads, I may produce ~100 rounds in 20-30 minutes before my old arm gets tired of cycling the press and I go rest.

True enough, I have been reloading for only 8 months, but have been talking up and studying reloading for a few years. I have the mechanical aptitude to set up presses and accessories and trouble shoot problems as they occur and am more safety conscience than any 100 people I know. I have no qualms about costs, and purchase quality gear as I need it. I reload using quality components with high-quality finished ammo in mind - not cost savings. I've never produced a squib yet, but certainly may if I reload long enough.

Your general dismissive attitude (without knowing the facts or the person's capabilities and intelligence) is rather irritating. And although I (as admitted) have never loaded plated, it is clear from 100s of posts here that newbs have a considerable number of problems with them, and that the savings are minuscule. Why throw other potential problems at a new reloader who could just as easily use jacketed bullets to start this hobby? Proper crimping seems to be one of the more confusing elements of the process. Let the new reloader use components and published data where success can more likely be achieved.

I know you will have a witty comeback, and although I shoot a lot of competitive disciplines, I have no intention of getting in a urination competition or verbal sparring with you.

I haven't been on this forum for very long, but it didn't take many readings of his posts to conclude he holds himself in high esteem. We are truly blessed to experience his wisdom!

unclebob
10-29-2012, 10:37
Way to go Kitty.:wow:

SARDG
10-29-2012, 11:03
Way to go Kitty.:wow:
Hey Bob, your job here is to disagree with me (often) - but at least when you do, itís non-condescending. :wavey:

k

unclebob
10-29-2012, 11:13
Hey Bob, your job here is to disagree with me (often) - but at least when you do, it’s non-condescending. :wavey:

k

I guess I must be slipping in my old age?:tongueout:

SARDG
10-29-2012, 11:16
I guess I must be slipping in my old age?:tongueout:
Yeah - work on that, will ya'?

Brian Lee
10-29-2012, 11:29
From the stories I read, never personally having a Kaboom happen to me, my impression is that most Glock KB's happen when somebody tries to turn up his "evil" .40 loads into realm of 10MM performance.

Use load data known to be tested and safe by those who have the pressure measuring equipment to work up a load safely, and there's no reason to fear reloads.

IMO Glock's stance against reloads is mainly coming from lawyers, and not gunsmiths. If they didn't follow the lawyers advice out of pure fear of lawsuits, some fool would blow himself up out of stupidity and then his wife would sue, claiming her husband would never have even taken up reloading if Glock Inc had not said it was safe to do so.

F106 Fan
10-29-2012, 11:53
Way to go Kitty.:wow:

+1

Richard

scccdoc
10-29-2012, 12:14
Knowing I should not use cast bullets in a polygonal barrel I planned on just loading jacketed bullets. I know Glock like most manufactures say use factory ammunition. How many of you use reloads in your Glock pistols?

Then checking the price of 9mm jacketed bullets I started doing some math. I figure on average it will cost me for powder, bullets and primers around 20-22 cents per round. I can buy 115 gr jacketed 9mm Luger for 22-24 cents per round. I'm seriouly asking, am I missing something here?

So really two questions:

1. Should I shoot reloads in my Glock.

2. Is it worth it to reload 9mm if I must use jacketed bullets?

Thanks for you input guys.
David

I shoot reloads almost exclusively and my average cost is .16/ rd with FMJ in my 40. Check your math and research better prices. I buy bulk, 1K bullets, primers and 8 lbs powder................

unclebob
10-29-2012, 12:28
Of the three Glocks that I have seen KB. One was a first generation 9mm with a steady diet of factory ++p ammo. One was a 45 gap with a double charge. The third was if I remember right 9 mm shooting lead bullets. Was that the cause?:dunno: All were at a Glock Match. But 3 different matches.

SCmasterblaster
10-29-2012, 13:32
I have been reloading cartridges and shooting them through my G17 since 1989. Untold thousands of rounds, almost all with a 153gr LRN at 850 FPS. Great reliability and accuracy, and very little bore leading. I did blow my G17 up with a factory load in 2010, but I got a new barrel and a Gen 3 frame out of it :supergrin:. My typical reload was 2.9 gr WSL and a Federal SPP. I reload 115gr FMJRN now.

Arc Angel
10-29-2012, 14:04
I have quoted your entire post, lest I be accused of taking something out of context - but have bolded the sentences most relevant to my reply.

Your reply to my plated bullet post - in which you agreed with none of it - pretty much wrote me off as an inexperienced Internet reloader, incapable of making proper reloading decisions and proper crimps, let alone finished match ammo - as I do. I only produce match ammo - that's why I began reloading - and I practice with the same match ammo as I shoot in matches. My 650 may be capable of 800 rounds/hour, but with the other peripheral tasks and spot check of my loads, I may produce ~100 rounds in 20-30 minutes before my old arm gets tired of cycling the press and I go rest.

True enough, I have been reloading for only 8 months, but have been talking up and studying reloading for a few years. I have the mechanical aptitude to set up presses and accessories and trouble shoot problems as they occur and am more safety conscience than any 100 people I know. I have no qualms about costs, and purchase quality gear as I need it. I reload using quality components with high-quality finished ammo in mind - not cost savings. I've never produced a squib yet, but certainly may if I reload long enough.

Your general dismissive attitude (without knowing the facts or the person's capabilities and intelligence) is rather irritating. And although I (as admitted) have never loaded plated, it is clear from 100s of posts here that newbs have a considerable number of problems with them, and that the savings are minuscule. Why throw other potential problems at a new reloader who could just as easily use jacketed bullets to start this hobby? Proper crimping seems to be one of the more confusing elements of the process. Let the new reloader use components and published data where success can more likely be achieved.

I know you will have a witty comeback, and although I shoot a lot of competitive disciplines, I have no intention of getting in a urination competition or verbal sparring with you.

:shocked: Wow! You laid that ambush nicely. I've got no amazingly clever answers for you; although it DOES amuse me to notice that you expect as much! (Should I say, 'Thank you'?) That, alone, tells me a great deal about you. (That's some inferiority complex you're nursing there, pal!) ;)

The other thing that stands out in your reply is that, somehow, you took every single word I said personally! Why? I didn't start any sentence or paragraph by referencing SARDG; but, hey, I guess you're a better judge of who you are than I might ever hope to be; and, after all, if the shoe fits ....... :supergrin:

You didn't, by the way, need to quote me in the entirety. That's only necessary when you take someone else's remarks out of context the same way you did with me in your first reply.

You know what I think you ought to do? Cozy up with the GT newbie below! As he says he hasn't been on the forum long; and neither does he possess the personal wisdom to know when to keep his mouth shut until he has something positive and useful to say. :freak:

PS: I hope there are no hard feelings. It wasn't my deliberate intention to point out to others that what you originally implied you know about reloading, and what you, in fact, actually know are two very different things. (Mea culpa! I hope I didn't embarrass you too much.)

I haven't been on this forum for very long, but it didn't take many readings of his posts to conclude he holds himself in high esteem. We are truly blessed to experience his wisdom!

Junior, in your time on this board if you make only 10% of the useful contributions I've made, if you receive only 10% of the thank you notes and expressions of gratitude that regularly come my way, well ........ THEN maybe you can open your silly mouth and make snide remarks about someone like me.

(Why don't you have the god-given sense to know when to remain silent and stay out of someone else's disagreement? That presumptive behavior on your part is really sad, and must have a certain unpleasant carryover value into your daily life!)

So far all you've shown me is that you know how to gripe and post ill-founded accusations on the Internet. Bravo, lad! As far as I'm concerned you belong in cyberspace. It's definitely the right social medium for an obvious internet hero like you!

:thumbsup:

unclebob
10-29-2012, 14:12
:shocked: Wow! You laid that ambush nicely. I've got no amazingly clever answers for you; although it DOES amuse me to notice that you expect as much! (Should I say, 'Thank you'?) That, alone, tells me a great deal about you. (That's some inferiority complex you're nursing there, pal!) ;)

The other thing that stands out in your reply is that, somehow, you took every single word I said personally! Why? I didn't start any sentence or paragraph by referencing SARDG; but, hey, I guess you're a better judge of who you are than I might ever hope to be; and, after all, if the shoe fits ....... :supergrin:

You didn't, by the way, need to quote me in the entirety. That's only necessary when you take someone else's remarks out of context the same way you did with me in your first reply.

You know what I think you ought to do? Cozy up with the GT newbie below! As he says he hasn't been on the forum long; and neither does he possess the personal wisdom to know when to keep his mouth shut until he has something positive and useful to say. :freak:

PS: I hope there are no hard feelings. It wasn't my deliberate intention to point out to others that what you originally implied you know about reloading, and what you, in fact, actually know are two very different things. (Mea culpa! I hope I didn't embarrass you too much.)



Junior, in your time on this board if you make only 10% of the useful contributions I've made, if you receive only 10% of the thank you notes and expressions of gratitude that regularly come my way, well ........ THEN maybe you can open your silly mouth and make snide remarks about someone like me.

(Why don't you have the god-given sense to know when to remain silent and stay out of someone else's disagreement? That presumptive behavior on your part is really sad, and must have a certain unpleasant carryover value into your daily life!)

So far all you've shown me is that you know how to gripe and post ill-founded accusations on the Internet. Bravo, lad! As far as I'm concerned you belong in cyberspace. It's definitely the right social medium for an obvious internet hero like you!

:thumbsup:
Donít know how old you are. But I guess you never learned to never argue with a woman. They always get the last word.:shocked:

Arc Angel
10-29-2012, 14:29
Donít know how old you are. But I guess you never learned to never argue with a woman. They always get the last word.:shocked:

NOW YOU TELL ME! :supergrin:




(But, thanks for the warning.) ;)

Gpruitt54
10-29-2012, 18:50
Yes, it is well worth it. But, only if you want to learn how to reload. Otherwise, just go out a buy factory loads.

A buddy of mine started reloading at the same time I did. To date, he has reloaded only 30 rounds. I have reloaded about 700 rounds so far. My buddy would have been better off buying factory rounds.

Your shooting is going to improve. This will happen because you will be in control of the rounds in every respect. You will choose the powder, bullets, cases, primers, and the powder charge. It's amazing how better you shoot using your custom rounds.