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flw
10-26-2012, 21:45
Are the Federal HST Tactical bonded or not?

Also is there a simple list somewhere that shows current makers of bonded JHP bullets? Labeling is not always clear and performance specs are often missing or overstated.

Tiro Fijo
10-26-2012, 21:59
Fed. Tactial HST is bonded. Normal HST is not. If you're not LE then there is really no need for bonded bullets for self defense. In fact, most bonded bullets don't mushroom as well as non-bonded on people. Rest assured however that some keyboard commando who watches too many Bruce Willis movies will tell you that without them you will certainly die in a shootout with a Mexican cartel as you're strolling through the Piggily Wiggily parking lot. :upeyes:

unit1069
10-26-2012, 22:41
Are the Federal HST Tactical bonded or not?

From everything I've found there is no bonded HST round. There are Federal Tactical Bonded rounds and HST rounds, but the HST are not bonded.

Also is there a simple list somewhere that shows current makers of bonded JHP bullets? Labeling is not always clear and performance specs are often missing or overstated.

I don't know of any list of all bonded ammos but the box should specify the word "bonded" somewhere. All the Internet ammo dealers' web sites make certain that their products are clearly identified.

dkf
10-26-2012, 22:46
If it has "HST" in the description it is not a bonded bullet. Every HST round on Federal's sight is listed as "Tactical". So "Tactical HST" non bonded and "Tactical Bonded" is bonded.

kaech
10-27-2012, 06:49
HST bonded..

No such thing.
Federal tactical bonded is Not the hst bullet

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kaech
10-27-2012, 06:50
If it has "HST" in the description it is not a bonded bullet. Every HST round on Federal's sight is listed as "Tactical". So "Tactical HST" non bonded and "Tactical Bonded" is bonded.

^^^ THIS

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hotpig
10-27-2012, 07:13
If it has "HST" in the description it is not a bonded bullet. Every HST round on Federal's sight is listed as "Tactical". So "Tactical HST" non bonded and "Tactical Bonded" is bonded.


What he said.

HST has been moved around a lot since its inception. Originally it was going to replace the Classic line of jhp. It performed so well in tests that the sales were restricted to LE. However it ended up performing bad and was recalled.

It was reintroduced under the Premium line and stayed in that box until 2007 when it was consolidated with the Tactical line.

Just to head questions off. If you have HST that is in a Classic Box use it as target ammo. If it is in the Premium or Tactical box it is good.

bunk22
10-27-2012, 08:37
Fed. Tactial HST is bonded. Normal HST is not. If you're not LE then there is really no need for bonded bullets for self defense. In fact, most bonded bullets don't mushroom as well as non-bonded on people. Rest assured however that some keyboard commando who watches too many Bruce Willis movies will tell you that without them you will certainly die in a shootout with a Mexican cartel as you're strolling through the Piggily Wiggily parking lot. :upeyes:

Almost as bad as an internet commando give other internet commando's advice. How's that video coming again? Usually those who call others as such are the biggest internet commando's of the bunch.

Tiro Fijo
10-27-2012, 12:08
Almost as bad as an internet commando give other internet commando's advice. How's that video coming again? Usually those who call others as such are the biggest internet commando's of the bunch.


Hit a nerve did I, range Gomer? :supergrin:

dpadams6
10-27-2012, 12:21
What he said.

HST has been moved around a lot since its inception. Originally it was going to replace the Classic line of jhp. It performed so well in tests that the sales were restricted to LE. However it ended up performing bad and was recalled.

It was reintroduced under the Premium line and stayed in that box until 2007 when it was consolidated with the Tactical line.

Just to head questions off. If you have HST that is in a Classic Box use it as target ammo. If it is in the Premium or Tactical box it is good.
I never heard this before. I have some boxes of both. What was changed from the classic to the newer tactical boxes. I heard somewhere that newer ones had lower flash. But nothing regarding performance.

hotpig
10-27-2012, 12:34
The Classic should have a white label marked not for LE or Duty use. Unless you got it real early like 2001 or 2002. It tested well in jell but not any better than its brother load the PMC\Eldorado's Star Fire.

I heard one Federal rep say most of this recalled ammo did not make it to the market. I know I sold some of it before the recall. I did not move a lot because no one knew anything about it and the Ranger T-Series was the new hot item at the time.

HST mfg after June of 2004 is ok.They probably have done some tweaking to it since then but not enoughht to notify dealers of the spec change.

cowboy1964
10-27-2012, 12:41
Fed. Tactial HST is bonded. Normal HST is not. If you're not LE then there is really no need for bonded bullets for self defense. In fact, most bonded bullets don't mushroom as well as non-bonded on people. Rest assured however that some keyboard commando who watches too many Bruce Willis movies will tell you that without them you will certainly die in a shootout with a Mexican cartel as you're strolling through the Piggily Wiggily parking lot. :upeyes:

Bones and clothing and wallets and phones and and and are all barriers. But regardless, bonded bullets also tend to give deeper penetration, which is also an important factor.

And there ARE legitimate civilian SD shootings that involve true barriers. It happens, even if rare.

uz2bUSMC
10-27-2012, 14:27
And there ARE legitimate civilian SD shootings that involve true barriers. It happens, even if rare.

For some reason it just seems that he needs to believe for himself that there can be no barrier problems for civilians.

dkf
10-27-2012, 14:32
The Classic should have a white label marked not for LE or Duty use. Unless you got it real early like 2001 or 2002. It tested well in jell but not any better than its brother load the PMC\Eldorado's Star Fire.

I heard one Federal rep say most of this recalled ammo did not make it to the market. I know I sold some of it before the recall. I did not move a lot because no one knew anything about it and the Ranger T-Series was the new hot item at the time.

HST mfg after June of 2004 is ok.They probably have done some tweaking to it since then but not enoughht to notify dealers of the spec change.

Thanks for the info Hotpig. I have some .357sig HST in the Gold "Premium" box and some Tactical.

Snowman92D
10-27-2012, 16:24
Almost as bad as an internet commando give other internet commando's advice. How's that video coming again? Usually those who call others as such are the biggest internet commando's of the bunch.

It might pay you to take the time to do some friendly inquiring. He's definitely not in the "internet commando" category, Bunk.

My agency has used the Federal Cartridge "Tactical Bonded" ammo in 165-grain .40 for years now with excellent results. However, the R&D engineers at Federal are telling us that their "HST" line does so well in hard-barrier testing that they question the need for us to keep buying the slightly more expensive "Tactical Bonded" ammo.

In the machine rest testing I've seen, the "HST" is slightly more accurate than the "Tactical Bonded", but it's all great stuff. Burns clean, shoots straight, drops 'em like a bad habit. :thumbsup:

dpadams6
10-27-2012, 16:36
The Classic should have a white label marked not for LE or Duty use. Unless you got it real early like 2001 or 2002. It tested well in jell but not any better than its brother load the PMC\Eldorado's Star Fire.

I heard one Federal rep say most of this recalled ammo did not make it to the market. I know I sold some of it before the recall. I did not move a lot because no one knew anything about it and the Ranger T-Series was the new hot item at the time.

HST mfg after June of 2004 is ok.They probably have done some tweaking to it since then but not enoughht to notify dealers of the spec change.
Thanks hotpig

SCmasterblaster
10-28-2012, 13:40
I don't understand this "bonded" "non-bonded" stuff anyway.

NEOH212
10-28-2012, 14:18
I'm sitting here looking at a 230 grain .45 HST that I recently tested and it's definitely a non-bonded bullet. This is some really good stuff and it looks rather promising.

I'm anxious to see what the street data is going to be like once it starts to come in. All of my tests both scientific and not so scientific are proving this stuff to be really nasty and quite possibly the best .45 load on the market today!

Glockbuster
10-28-2012, 14:24
I'm sitting here looking at a 230 grain .45 HST that I recently tested and it's definitely a non-bonded bullet. This is some really good stuff and it looks rather promising.

I'm anxious to see what the street data is going to be like once it starts to come in. All of my tests both scientific and not so scientific are proving this stuff to be really nasty and quite possibly the best .45 load on the market today!


They open up impressively, but I like the Ranger T better in the same caliber and weight.

NEOH212
10-28-2012, 14:25
I like the Ranger T better in the same caliber and weight.

Can I ask you why? (I'm wondering if it's the same reason that I do too?)

:cool:

Glockbuster
10-28-2012, 14:28
Can I ask you why? (I'm wondering if it's the same reason that I do too?)

:cool:

A friend and I did some wet phone book paper testing with both, the .45 ranger opened up to almost 1" and those talons sure looked tremendous.

Ljutic
10-28-2012, 14:45
Can I ask you why? (I'm wondering if it's the same reason that I do too?)

:cool:

Quick and dirty reason.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Blog%20Photos%202/91fef316.jpg


More detailed reasons.
http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/10/springfield-xds-carry-ammo-testing.html


Clear gel test block is sitting on my work table waiting to be processed. They are both pretty wicked.

SCmasterblaster
10-28-2012, 14:46
A friend and I did some wet phone book paper testing with both, the .45 ranger opened up to almost 1" and those talons sure looked tremendous.

Sounds good. I am looking for a .45 ACP winter-time carry load for up here in VT. :cool:

NEOH212
10-28-2012, 20:33
A friend and I did some wet phone book paper testing with both, the .45 ranger opened up to almost 1" and those talons sure looked tremendous.

My testing of the Federal HST 230 Grain +P .45 ACP showed the bullet expanded nearly to one inch as well.

The Ranger wasn't too far behind. I like the Ranger T-series because it has the street track record.

Mattkcc
10-28-2012, 22:29
I've talked to surgeons that hate the talons, they are very difficult to remove due to the talons tangling up in flesh. They often can't remove with forceps and when they try to remove with their fingers the talons cut through their gloves and into their finger. They don't like getting expose to AIDS and Hep..

Glockbuster
10-29-2012, 09:41
Sounds good. I am looking for a .45 ACP winter-time carry load for up here in VT. :cool:


But--but....but Ive always known you as a 9mm guy !!!:tongueout:

SCmasterblaster
10-29-2012, 11:55
But--but....but Ive always known you as a 9mm guy !!!:tongueout:

I am. I almost always carry a G17, but I am considering carrying my .45 1911 in the VT winter. :cool:

NEOH212
10-29-2012, 22:00
I finally broke out the dial calipers and the recovered HST .45 measured .984"

Pretty darn impressive!

:cool:

SCmasterblaster
10-30-2012, 07:24
I finally broke out the dial calipers and the recovered HST .45 measured .984"

Pretty darn impressive!

:cool:

Almost an inch!