Astigmatism and Optics [Archive] - Glock Talk

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MississipVol
10-27-2012, 13:09
I bought my first AR a month ago (Colt 6920 MOE) and plan to get my 1st optic in the next few weeks.

I was planning to get either an Eotech or Aimpoint because I like the way they look on an AR and the quick target acquisition regardless of cheek weld. However, I went to a store to check them out - they didn't have an Aimpoint but the Eotech looked cloudy to me and it seemed difficult to focus with it. I wasn't able to check out an Aimpoint but the dot on the Vortex Strikefire I looked through looked like a tiny kidney bean.

However, I looked through a Burris MTAC 1-4X scope and the reticle was crystal clear. The eye relief was (of course) not nearly as good and I am sure it is not parallax free at 1X but now I am torn because this was so much clearer and I know the extra magnification would be helpful.

With my Astigmatism, am I better off to go with a etched reticle like the Burris MTAC? Do you think the Aimpoint would be better? Is it possible I would get used to the Eotech? Any other options out there?

By the way, my budget is around $500 and will be shooting primarily out to 100 yards. TIA!!!

javelinadave
10-27-2012, 13:17
Don't let other people buy you your optics. What works for you is what you should buy. I hate Eotechs, my team mate loves them. I love Aimpoints, another team mate uses a Trijicon reflex. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong with their choices. Do stay away from Chinese anything if you are a serious shooter, competitor or on a work rifle.

WoodenPlank
10-27-2012, 13:27
ALmost any red dot type scope can look funky with astigmatism, unfortunately. I would suggest playing around with an Aimpoint as soon as you get a chance. I have found it's a little more friendly to astigmatism than the EO Tech, especially if you avoid cranking the Aimpoint's brightness up any higher than is really needed.

MississipVol
10-27-2012, 13:58
Don't let other people buy you your optics. What works for you is what you should buy. I hate Eotechs, my team mate loves them. I love Aimpoints, another team mate uses a Trijicon reflex. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong with their choices. Do stay away from Chinese anything if you are a serious shooter, competitor or on a work rifle.

I live in an area where there is not a lot of places to check out optics so I need input on these types of decisions. I am not looking for someone else to buy my optic but do need some advice on the subject.

Cole125
10-27-2012, 14:14
Buy what works for you, it sounds like a 1-4x would be best in your case. I am near-sighted so without my glasses Aimpoint and EoTech reticles look blurry, but the Aimpoint is still usable. 1-4x or ACOG type scopes work for me regardless if I have my glasses on or not.

I don't know if you can get corrective glasses for astigmatism or not, but if you can you will have better luck using a red dot type sight.

OdinIII
10-27-2012, 14:48
I was all set to get an Aimpoint Pro a while back and found one in stock to look through. I had hoped that it would look better than the Eotech that I had. It didn't, if I turned it up to the brightness level that I desired there was a very large star like flare effect that just looked terrible. The Eotech reticle doesn't look perfect but for my eyes it is very usable. I ended up selling my old AA model and buying an EXPS which I'm very happy with so far.

I also bought an MTAC for another rifle. I feel that I should be able to do anything that needs to be done with the rifle.

If you are concerned about the speed of target acquisition with the MTAC then spend some time on youtube and watch a few 3-gun videos of people using the MTAC. I don't think it will hold you back.

Good luck.

FatBoy
10-27-2012, 14:55
I have an Astigmatism also. My friend was selling his EO, so I gave it a look see. Holy crap, it was horrible to MY eyes. OTOH, I have 3 AimPoints (comp M2s). The dot has a very small "comets tail" coming off it, but it is hardly noticeable compared to the Football like dot of the EO. I also have two ACOGs, which are perfect.

To MY eyes the tech that AimPoint uses is much better than EoTech for MY Astigmatism. YMMV

FB

FatBoy
10-27-2012, 15:02
Buy what works for you, it sounds like a 1-4x would be best in your case. I am near-sighted so without my glasses Aimpoint and EoTech reticles look blurry, but the Aimpoint is still usable. 1-4x or ACOG type scopes work for me regardless if I have my glasses on or not.

I don't know if you can get corrective glasses for astigmatism or not, but if you can you will have better luck using a red dot type sight.

You can, and I do have them.

Although I have not done it, someone smarter than I, recommended to people w/ Astigmatism to bring their AimPoint to the next apt w/ the eye doc and have the lenses adjusted until the dot is perfect.

wct097
10-27-2012, 16:32
Prior to being diagnosed with Astigmatism, I was set on getting an Eotech. Then I looked at some at a shop and the gun shows and couldn't figure out why they looked so fuzzy. Uncorrected, I think they're completely unusable for me. I'm now thinking about an Aimpoint T1 Micro, having tried one out with glasses on. I need to try the Eotech again with my glasses, but I'm thinking the smaller single dot would make more sense for the times I might need to use the gun without my glasses.

You can, and I do have them.

Although I have not done it, someone smarter than I, recommended to people w/ Astigmatism to bring their AimPoint to the next apt w/ the eye doc and have the lenses adjusted until the dot is perfect.


That's actually a pretty good idea, and I may in fact do that.

Big Bird
10-27-2012, 16:35
With most red dot sights its a mistake to focus on the dot. You need to focus on the target. All red dots are fuzzy to a degree and that's normal.

If you find yourself concentrating on the dot you aren't using the sight correctly.

http://www.aimpoint.com/us/products/whyreddotsight/

cowboy1964
10-27-2012, 17:08
I have pretty bad astigmatism in my dominate eye and the entire EOTech reticle just is one big blur. It's almost as bad with my other eye too though and that is just nearsightedness. The EOTech would still work for close in shooting though. Fortunately I have 20/20 with no astig. with correction.

Zombie Steve
10-27-2012, 17:10
With most red dot sights its a mistake to focus on the dot. You need to focus on the target. All red dots are fuzzy to a degree and that's normal.

If you find yourself concentrating on the dot you aren't using the sight correctly.

http://www.aimpoint.com/us/products/whyreddotsight/

Good Lord... 10 posts until someone finally got to it. :thumbsup:

Both eyes open... focus on the target.

Trey83
10-27-2012, 17:27
I have an astigmatism and I'm very happy with my Aimpoint. If I focus on the dot I can tell it isn't round but when I'm actually out shooting I don't notice it at all. As mentioned before, turning the brightness down to the proper level helps quite a bit.

MississipVol
10-27-2012, 18:53
I've been looking at various optics since reading your posts.

What do you think about THIS option considering what I am dealing with?

http://www.burrisoptics.com/ar332.html

(Burris 332)

OdinIII
10-27-2012, 19:50
I've been looking at various optics since reading your posts.

What do you think about THIS option considering what I am dealing with?

http://www.burrisoptics.com/ar332.html

(Burris 332)

What will the rifle be used for? I personally wouldn't want a fixed 3X if the rifle might be used for home defense at inside the home ranges.

MississipVol
10-27-2012, 20:12
What will the rifle be used for? I personally wouldn't want a fixed 3X if the rifle might be used for home defense at inside the home ranges.

Mostly range use out to 100 yards, VERY occasional hunting, and YES - a potential HD weapon for CHTF scenarios.

But I was actually thinking I could put a mini-red dot on the top. It has built in rails on the top and sides for this purpose.

OdinIII
10-27-2012, 20:49
Mostly range use out to 100 yards, VERY occasional hunting, and YES - a potential HD weapon for CHTF scenarios.

But I was actually thinking I could put a mini-red dot on the top. It has built in rails on the top and sides for this purpose.

Everyone has an opinion and mine is that you sound like a perfect candidate for the MTAC. It has the ~1X that enables quick up close and personal shots and 4X for use while hunting or trying to shoot groups at the range.

The only downsides that I can think of is that the battery life for illumination is quite short and the scope and mount can add a lot of weight to the rifle.



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

janice6
10-27-2012, 20:57
I have a red/green dot sight (switchable), and I find that the eye response to the green is far superior to a red dot. The shape and intensity are better and the dot distortion is less for me. That's not even counting it's much better brightness in daylight.

ratf51
10-27-2012, 21:52
I'll chime in, too. I have astigmatism and had an Eotech. I like the large circle and dot configuration of the Eotech, but over time it bothered me that I didn't have the nice "dot" due to my astigmatism. I recently did a 20" AR build and sold the Eotech to fund a Nikon M223 2-8x for that build. Put the irons back on my carbine. Plain old cross-hairs are less affected by my astigmatism. I have never had the opportunity to look through an Aimpoint so I can't speak to how they might compare as RDSs, but for me, cross-hairs seem best. I may eventually put a 1-4x of some sort on my AR carbine. YMMV.

Cole125
10-27-2012, 21:58
I've been looking at various optics since reading your posts.

What do you think about THIS option considering what I am dealing with?

http://www.burrisoptics.com/ar332.html

(Burris 332)

I've got a Burris AR332 and its a outstanding little sight. Its built like a tank, pretty much a battery powered ACOG. I've had mine over a year and still on my first battery, its held its zero, and was easy to sight in. IMO its a better option than a red dot for people with less than perfect eye sight, the 3x magnification goes a long way.

He is mine on my CMMG M4 LE.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm245/jcole_08/IMG_0019.jpg

Cole125
10-27-2012, 22:03
What will the rifle be used for? I personally wouldn't want a fixed 3X if the rifle might be used for home defense at inside the home ranges.

Fixed 3x and 4x work fine for short range if you know how to use them. Keep both eyes open and all you will see is the reticle and the target, it works. Soldiers use this trick with their ACOGs.

TangoFoxtrot
10-28-2012, 05:08
I bought my first AR a month ago (Colt 6920 MOE) and plan to get my 1st optic in the next few weeks.

I was planning to get either an Eotech or Aimpoint because I like the way they look on an AR and the quick target acquisition regardless of cheek weld. However, I went to a store to check them out - they didn't have an Aimpoint but the Eotech looked cloudy to me and it seemed difficult to focus with it. I wasn't able to check out an Aimpoint but the dot on the Vortex Strikefire I looked through looked like a tiny kidney bean.

However, I looked through a Burris MTAC 1-4X scope and the reticle was crystal clear. The eye relief was (of course) not nearly as good and I am sure it is not parallax free at 1X but now I am torn because this was so much clearer and I know the extra magnification would be helpful.

With my Astigmatism, am I better off to go with a etched reticle like the Burris MTAC? Do you think the Aimpoint would be better? Is it possible I would get used to the Eotech? Any other options out there?

By the way, my budget is around $500 and will be shooting primarily out to 100 yards. TIA!!!

I have the same problem with astigmatism as well. If I don't wear my glasses the dot on my optic is fuzzy.

FatBoy
10-28-2012, 14:27
With most red dot sights its a mistake to focus on the dot. You need to focus on the target. All red dots are fuzzy to a degree and that's normal.

If you find yourself concentrating on the dot you aren't using the sight correctly.

http://www.aimpoint.com/us/products/whyreddotsight/

Unless you have looked through one and have an Astigmatism, I don't think you have a good idea what we are talking about. When I look through an EO w/o my glasses the 1moa dot looks like a 60 moa football. It actually almost touches the outside 65 moa ring. W/ my glasses it is better, maybe a 10-15 moa football.

FatBoy
10-28-2012, 14:35
Good Lord... 10 posts until someone finally got to it. :thumbsup:

Both eyes open... focus on the target.

We, or at least I, know how to look through the optic. It's tough to get any type of hits when there is a 60 moa football sitting on the target.

FB

drjay007
10-28-2012, 21:32
I Have an astigmatism in my dominant eye.....I looked at the eotech, aimpoint, and trijicon. I wewnt with the trijicon.....you should be able to find a used one for 700....just over your budget, but the clarity of the glass is amazing, and the magnification diminishes the effects of the astigmatism

wct097
10-29-2012, 05:35
With most red dot sights its a mistake to focus on the dot. You need to focus on the target. All red dots are fuzzy to a degree and that's normal.

If you find yourself concentrating on the dot you aren't using the sight correctly.

http://www.aimpoint.com/us/products/whyreddotsight/

Astigmatism isn't a mental disease that makes some people focus on the dot..... it's an eye condition that distorts the retina making things like red dots and holo sights look fuzzy when used properly. It affects focus and thus sights that depend on focus become less usable.

Good Lord... 10 posts until someone finally got to it. :thumbsup:

Both eyes open... focus on the target.

Wrong. 10 posts until a couple people who don't know what astigmatism was decided to post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astigmatism_(eye)

From Eotech's site:

http://www.eotech-inc.com/product-faqs


Also, if you have astigmatism or use bifocals, you may see the image less distinctly.

EKUJustice
10-29-2012, 18:16
check out eh Leupold prismatic sight. Its an atched glass illuminated reticle sight that can be adjusted just like a scope can but looks similar to aimpoint size. The reticle with the dot in a circle is great.

MississipVol
10-29-2012, 19:45
I think I have finally made a decision.

I took my Colt out to the range this weekend (4th time total) and tried to stretch out my shots to the full 100 yards. It wasn't easy with the small splatter targets I was using.

I decided right then that my eyes could benefit from some magnification so I decided to go with my initial choice of a Burris MTAC 1-4X24 with a Burris P.E.P.R. mount. It is a little longer on the rifle than I was wanting but I figure I will be a lot happier with it if I can make the shots I want.

I may be able to pick one up as early as Wednesday and will post a pic when I do.

Now my next thought is to try to construct a target I have in my head that would use several clay pigeons (skeet) to use for immediate feedback. (My range doesn't allow metal targets for some stupid reason and the splatter targets are too far to see for certainty.)

Other than getting a spotting scope, let me know if you have any other ideas for getting immediate feedback from a target if I want to do quick shooting (not bench).

Thanks!!!