650 round test, non dip extractor causing BTF [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Buckshot Barry
10-29-2012, 18:58
G19, Gen 3, S/N TTL***, born on Aug 30, 2012, new style non dip MIM extractor

During the first 200 rounds I was getting about 5% back to face.

Swapped the extractor, firing pin safety, and spring load bearing assembly from a 2005 G17.

We then fired 350 rounds of Win White Box, Blazer aluminum and brass, and Federal Champions (100 of the 350 rounds and the lightest load). I, my wife, and a new shooter that had never shot a handgun before, shot the 19.

There were ZERO back to face.

During those 350 rounds I started reinstalling the original parts except for the original non dip extractor.

Today I reinstalled the original non dip extractor, and back to face started with about 5% of the 100 rounds I fired, mostly with Federal Champions (50 of the rounds fired today).

The new non dip extractor does show wear and mold marks. I don't shoot the G17 that much, so I'm just putting that extractor back in to the new G19. Just sharing.

19Glock19
10-29-2012, 19:56
Can you take a pics of the extractor? I'd like to see the mold marks compared to mine. I have a new 19 from 6/12 (USA made), non dipped extractor, with no mold marks...

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Buckshot Barry
10-29-2012, 21:06
Can you take a pics of the extractor? I'd like to see the mold marks compared to mine. I have a new 19 from 6/12 (USA made), non dipped extractor, with no mold marks...
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Here you go. Non-dip MIM 2012, 300 rounds

http://www.mindspring.com/~buckshotbarry/nondip1.jpg

http://www.mindspring.com/~buckshotbarry/nondip2.jpg

Buckshot Barry
10-29-2012, 21:19
Cast, 2005, about 2,600 rounds total. 350 in the G19 and about 2,250 in the G17.

http://www.mindspring.com/~buckshotbarry/cast1.jpg

http://www.mindspring.com/~buckshotbarry/cast2.jpg

firstg19
10-29-2012, 21:30
very interesting info. I especially like the pics of the cast vs. MIM ejectors you posted. Can the cast ejectors still be bought? I've read that you can buy the old style non-dip extractors, but are they MIM or cast?

Bradd D
10-29-2012, 23:55
I had an early 2010 production 17 gen 4 that had pretty decent ejection. Just for fun I installed a new non-dip extractor and a new Lone Wolf extractor in it. Ejection went to hell in a handbasket. I put the original dip extractor back in and everything was fine again.

jeremy1
10-30-2012, 00:16
I swapped out my extractor on my G19 gen 3 SN SDA*** The factory had a 2 stamped in it, and ordered one from Glockparts.com that didn't have any marks. This solved my 2 per mag BTF's.
I don't believe the RSA on the Gen 4's has anything to do with the ejection issues. This is a problem for gen 3's as well as gen 4's

Arc Angel
10-30-2012, 04:23
Buckshot, you just taught me something! Thank you. ;)

19Glock19
10-30-2012, 05:55
Thank you! As I suspected... Great pics...

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Buckshot Barry
11-04-2012, 17:54
Now knowing it was the non dip original extractor that was causing BTF, I took a very close look at it with a magnifying glass. There were 3 gouges on the top corner. There was no finish wear on the slide in that corresponding area. I used a ceramic sharpening stone to clean up the areas marked in red and to remove about 80% of the gouge marks.

I ran 100 rounds through the 19 today issue free. I shot it with both hands, right hand only and left hand only. No back to face. I think the original extractor was hanging on the slide. WHOOPEE!

http://www.mindspring.com/~buckshotbarry/nondip3.jpg

dhgeyer
11-04-2012, 18:18
Not all of the new non-dipped extractors come from the same mold. The one that came on my USA made G17 is marked "4". The ones I ordered from Glockparts.com are marked "1".

Let's remember, it's not the dip that's causing problems: that was just a way of distinguishing older cast extractors from the newer MIM ones. Now we have MIM extractors without the dip. It's entirely possible that some of them may be better than others. Some may fit certain guns better than others, which could get really confusing.

One of the ones marked "1" improved my G19 Gen4 tremendously.

SJ 40
11-04-2012, 18:48
Still seems as if either extractors or extractor cut in slide out of spec. ,boils down to something out of spec. SJ 40

Bruce M
11-04-2012, 19:00
Very interesting. Great photos. Thanks.

Buckshot Barry
11-04-2012, 22:04
Here is the extractor after polishing. It's stamped with a "4"

http://www.mindspring.com/~buckshotbarry/nondip4.jpg

Raleigh Glocker
11-05-2012, 00:27
Here is the extractor after polishing. It's stamped with a "4"

http://www.mindspring.com/~buckshotbarry/nondip4.jpg

That's very interesting. The factory original extractor in my Gen 4 G23 I bought new in the fall of 2010 has a MIM non-dipped #4 extractor. It works fantastic in that pistol.

Are there really two #4 extractors (9mm and 40), or is Glock now trying a 40 extractor in the 9s like some have had success with?

momoshooter
12-27-2012, 21:07
That's very interesting. The factory original extractor in my Gen 4 G23 I bought new in the fall of 2010 has a MIM non-dipped #4 extractor. It works fantastic in that pistol.

Are there really two #4 extractors (9mm and 40), or is Glock now trying a 40 extractor in the 9s like some have had success with?

Buckshot,
Thanks for sharing and the attached images for clarity.

I agree that the "dip" as a result of the sintering process doesnt seem to have anything to do with the components performance.
Other than it being unsightly, and take away from the already decent clean lines of the slide.

I own all Gen3 Glocks, all mine are dipped.

I would like to shoot and test some non-dipped.

Do you know if this is a direct from factory purchase to obtain them?



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tango44
12-28-2012, 10:58
Tagged.

High Altitude
12-28-2012, 19:10
I wish glock would stop messing around and go back to the original extractor and be done with all these problems.

SJ 40
12-28-2012, 19:18
I wish glock would stop messing around and go back to the original extractor and be done with all these problems.You and a Bunch of other folks. SJ 40

Catshooter
12-28-2012, 20:41
What does "dip" mean please?


Cat

Buckshot Barry
12-28-2012, 21:33
What does "dip" mean please?


Cat

With photos

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1433595

Catshooter
12-28-2012, 21:53
Barry,

Perfect, thanks much.


Cat

Buckshot Barry
01-06-2013, 20:00
You can add approximately another 144 rounds of zero back to face after polishing the extractor today. I shot my first IDPA match and the 19 performed flawlessly. There were scenarios that required strong hand and weak hand firing. Shot laying down, behind posts, barricades, etc. No problems at all.

jtrudel31
01-27-2013, 10:45
Is your 19 g4 still running good ? I just took some flitz and polished the side of the extractor with the wear marks . It is the no dip variety . Will be shooting next weekend to see results of the polishing .

Buckshot Barry
01-27-2013, 11:28
Is your 19 g4 still running good ? I just took some flitz and polished the side of the extractor with the wear marks . It is the no dip variety . Will be shooting next weekend to see results of the polishing .

Running great, but FWIW it's a gen 3

jtrudel31
01-27-2013, 18:38
I put the 336 back in and saw improvement with the non dip ex. I get an occasion weak ejection or dribbler but no Btf . I figured polishing the extractor can't hurt , there's definitely some friction goin on

jtrudel31
01-27-2013, 18:46
I put the 336 back in and saw improvement with the non dip ex. I get an occasion weak ejection or dribbler but no Btf . I figured polishing the extractor can't hurt , there's definitely some friction goin on based on those wear points , my gen 2 ex has zero wear in those areas .

Buckshot Barry
06-04-2013, 14:19
FYI, I'm up to 1151 rounds now. Mostly Federal Champion 115's as of late.

Still no BTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pizza_pablo
06-04-2013, 14:59
Sounds like this thread, which had a different solution:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1488589

Buckshot Barry
06-16-2013, 20:10
Well we ran another 100 rounds through the 19 this weekend without any BTF, but this time it was the first time the pistol was used in competition and you know the failures always occur at the worst possible time :wow:

I think it truly is fixed.

greyeyezz
06-17-2013, 05:56
Why not try putting the original non dip extractor in the G17 and see what happens?

Buckshot Barry
06-17-2013, 06:03
Why not try putting the original non dip extractor in the G17 and see what happens?

Both the G17 and G19 have their original parts, including the extractors. Both were fired about 100 rounds in competition this weekend with zero issues. To sum it up, all that was ever needed to stop BTF on the 19 was fitting of the original extrator as noted in the pictures.

Thanks for following the thread.