Talk me down... Pm9 trade offer [Archive] - Glock Talk

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bullseye9mm
10-30-2012, 05:58
I have received an offer to trade my gen 2.5 Glock 26 for a kahr pm9 pocket rocket in matte stainless...

Should I, shouldn't I?

Oh the humanity!

Love the form factor but don't shoot it as well as my Glock. Debating whether time with the pm9 will make me more accurate with it

Any insight?
Pm9 owners?

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Gallium
10-30-2012, 06:22
I had a P9, snappy as heck, sold it, used the money to buy a G26. Looks like you are going INTO the black hole, not escaping. :)

bullseye9mm
10-30-2012, 06:26
See, and I don't mind the recoil As I think it's pretty mild... Less than a j frame with +P rounds.....

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LampShadeActual
10-30-2012, 06:35
The Kahr is perhaps an easier size pocket pistol. That is its only advantage.

A Glock, any Glock, will probably work all the time. A Kahr will only work between failures to work, new defects, parts wear, and other malfunctions.

Follows is a short list of the things it took to make a Kahr CW9 even remotely reliable. Notice the result of the work, expense, trouble, ammo testing: Failure.

Things it took to make it increasingly reliable:

*the rounded top front of trigger turning down cut my finger on first magazine. I removed metal, reprofiled the part that acts as a trigger stop in the forward motion, smoothed the part that rotates down away from the frame when you pull the trigger. If you have large hands, it rotates down and cuts your finger. A Kahr person on the phone said the worst that happens when you remove the trigger forward motion stop part of the trigger is that the free pull lengthens slightly. No harm by changing it.

*inside of trigger guard was rough cast plastic where your finger rubs as you pull to the rear. Polished the plastic so as not to retard my finger coming to the rear.

*disconnector was eating plastic in rear where upside down U is located for slide contact. Harbor Freight Mini-Dremel did its magic removing burrs from the stamped disconnector/trigger bar part. Burring stopped.

*magazines would not drop free when mag catch released them. Mini-Dremel removed burrs from the trigger bar reduced dragging on the magazines. Helped, not the full answer. They would mostly fall free.

*barrel had burrs all over from factory machining. Mini-Dremel neatly smoothed the sharp feathers and polished corners for smooth operation.

*striker tang-firing pin "sear" burred on bottom making a catchy draggy pull. Polished it with 600 grit paper backed with a flat stone. Much improved pull without a late in stroke catch.

*hand cycled the action 200 times just to loosen up the system and identify spots that rubbed.

*fired 200 rounds of WallyWorld WW115FMJ perfectly. Zero malfunctions. Every time, I loaded 7+1 to stress it as much as possible. Worked perfect. (Except for mags dropped out 2 or 3 times for unknown reason at the time. Worried me, but it never did it again. Remember this for later.) Thought gun was good to go. Time to test hollow points. Wrongie when I switched to hollow points.

*Where the barrel hood meets the chamber at top, there was a machined ledge about 1/32" tall under the hood upon which every brand of hollow point would catch and not enter chamber 3-4 shots out of each 8. Speer Gold Dot, Federal HydraShok, Winchester PD something, EVEN Hornady Critical Defense would hang up on it. Solution equaled you guessed it. Mini-Dremel away the L_ of the ledge and made it into a /_ if you get the idea. Polished and deburred the entire rear end of the barrel and hood in any place where a bullet could possibly come in contact. In Colt .45ACP terms, it was throated and polished. Also polished the feed ramp and rounded the bottom corners where they were getting burred on something.

*result equaled perfect function with any hollow point. Since the ledge was reshaped, it has now eaten perfectly, feed/fire/eject, about 500 rounds since the above fixes. When the ledge went away, no more catching bullet noses, the thing works perfectly.

*magazines dropping free when the mag catch was pushed were problematic. Found feathers from casting the plastic frame hanging inside of plastic handle holding mags in. Defeathered handle inside and mags drop free.

*finger grip extensions were an extra lump in my pocket in a pocket holster and felt funny under my finger firing??user concern, not defect. I reshaped each magazine so as to eliminate the little finger hook. Just enough to match the slope of the plastic above the little hook. Not a radical reshaping, just enough to get rid of the projection and blend the profile into the magazine tube and bottom plate. It felt better firing and stuck out less carried.

*sighting in was a trip and a half. Rear sight destroyed a couple expensive brass drifts. It was simply too tight for any gun sight. Finally had to shape a steel punch to move the rear sight without hurting anything before the rear sight broke loose for proper adjustment. To move one you have to put the slide on a firm but non maring surface, use a steel drift, and wack it a good one. Not precise, but I got it perfect.

*the CW9 is now zeroed for Hornady Critical Defense 115 FTX ammo. It shoots about 1" high at 15 yards. Same sight position works with 115 WW FMJ. Same sight position works with 4.1 Bullseye, Hornady 115 FMJRN reloads. All three loads shoot to same zero. This is the factory ammo sight height selections which have to use 115 grain ammo for an elevation zero.

*heavier and heavier bullets shoot more and more to the left and up. Hornady's Critical Duty 135 grain 9mm is close to the three loads above because it is kinda slow for a 135 grain 9mm. Standard 147 9mm loads move left and up quickly. Never shot any +P as no need with the Hornady Critical Defense ammo expanding and holding together to penetrate well.

*so having 500 rounds through it with zero failures since all the fixes were done, I thought I was finally good to go.

*then I ran accross a "warning" about the magazine follower internally disconnecting the magazine catch as there were 4 rounds remaining and/or again when there were 3 rounds remaining in the magazine. The follower goes by the mag catch slot in the magazine and in going by pushes the mag catch out of its slot in the mag. This is aggravated by the twisting effect of the finger grip extension floor plates. I read this note and said, Naw, not mine. Wrong again.

*I stripped my pile of magazines and found the four original ones I bought at purchase chewed up with plastic sticking here and there. The newer ones were beginning the process of self destruction.

*There is a simple fix there. I sanded and polished away the chewing making a 45 degree bevel sort of rounding and hope that stops the chewing. Pretty much on the order of the pictures in the site thread referenced above. It at least removes plastic material sticking out into the mag catch slot. The chewing up of the follower in two spots seems a constant process until the follower no longer contacts the mag catch. Something to watch for in the future as I clean magazines. I had no interest in grinding away any more than it took to uniformly smooth the chewed up places and round the areas as in the referenced site. Test firing reveals no problems in do this.

*the finger grip hook on all my mags is gone now so as not to contribute to the inadvertent release of magazines by twisting or by pulling down on the hook. I like them better that way anyhow. Some people like the little hooks.

*The slide stop was too easy to put on by accident and I developed a good fix for that. If you overtighten the screw, it freezes the spring. The spring screw needs to be snug, but not forced too tight.

*The magazine came uncatched in my pocket one day. I put in a new Kahr catch and spring. Then it unlatched the mag when my daughter was shooting it.

*The reason for this became obvious. With the slide, barrel and spring off, and a magazine body with no follower and no spring or floorplate inserted, you could see what was going on. If the magazine twisted one way, the catch was in the slot deep. If the mag twisted the other way, the catch held by less than half the thickness of the magazine wall. When the frame flexed with firing, it uncatched and the mag dropped.

*She said it was a nice size gun for a purse, but if it FUBARs the first and only time she would ever shoot it, it was toast. Kid smarter than me. Her advice: Don't waste time trying to make something work that doesn't.

*Got another new catch and new spring and test fired it 100 rounds. It worked perfect. I then swapped the GD thing off for something that goes bang every time. What a waste of time and 800 rounds of ammo testing it.

***Kahr gone****

*Daughter shot my M26. She said it was stupid for a purse gun. Too many rounds missing from the magazine. The backstrap comes only half way down your palm which makes it rock. Even if you use a plus2 follower, the gun is not shaped right. With a flat floorplate, it is only two fingers anyhow. And still no backstrap support.

*She shot a M19 and bought one as the perfect girl's purse gun. Many rounds in the mag and the backstrap is long enough to promote comfort and control. It is all of a 1/2" and an ounce bigger than a M26. Far better size wise efficiency.

*Already having a M23, I agreed.

bullseye9mm
10-30-2012, 06:47
While you may have had some issues with the cw line of kahr pistols, I've had none. I have a cw9 and it's been flawless with any and all ammo.. Never an issue with mag catch or drop free mags.
Same with my first pm9..just traded it on a whim and a wild hair

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LampShadeActual
10-30-2012, 06:52
Some issues?

The Kahr was like a kit that was unfinished.

The only worse gun I ever stupidly bought was a KelTec 9mm that braze welded the firing pin to the slide in three shots of blown primers as the slide unlocked too soon with factory Federal HydraShok ammo, sheared off primer material, and then melted it freezing the firing pin.

Saying the Kahr had some issues is like saying someone is a little bit dead.

TheJ
10-30-2012, 07:01
I have and enjoy both pistols. But they are very different and have different advantages/disadvantages. If you want a great pocket pistol then IMHO the PM9 is a great answer. If you are not looking to pocket carry then its probably not the best answer.

bullseye9mm
10-30-2012, 07:06
I'm not doubting your issues with the gun. I have had kahrs, kel tec and yes, even Taurus guns without any kind of issues whatsoever.
Any gun manufacturer will have its occasional lemon.
Heck, I won't buy a new Glock because of the many issues with the gen 4,not to mention the new mim parts that they've been using because of cost cutting measures.
But all in all, I'm not questioning the reliability of the gun.
I'm not discounting your experience, but it's the first I've heard of an unfinished or roughly finished guns from kahr.

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alank2
10-30-2012, 07:14
Hi,

To the OP, I'd only make the trade if you want to pocket carry. That is the only advantage I see to the PM9 over the G26. With that said, it is an incredible advantage. The PM9 replaced my old S&W 442 for pocket carry and it is light, small, flat, very easily concealable. Get an old bicycle tire and cut a small section of it for a grip on the PM9 - this will cover the sharp stipling and makes it much nicer to shoot.

Good luck,

Alan

burttrans
10-30-2012, 07:30
Love my CM9 for pocket carry when needed and its 100% reliable. I love my G19 too and looking for a deal on used G26 soon.

Sgt.K
10-30-2012, 08:01
I own both and would not trade my G26 for a or another PM9. IMHO the PM9 is for deep cover carry or backup, not for primary EDC. As I stated in another thread "my" PM9 is quirky. Cannot slingshot, so no "tap, rack, bang" and I occasionally find the top round in my spare 7 round mag partially out of the mag or in the bottom of the mag pouch. The positives are it is very accurate and +p rated. And I'm confident that the 6+1 in it will work reliably. Again JMHO.

Redstate
10-30-2012, 09:33
I think the used PM9 is worth more (money wise) than the used G26. However, you cannot compare the 2. For me, each serves a different purpose. I don't have a PM9; but I do have a P9 Covert (same grip; length as PM9 but 3.5 inch barrel instead of 3 inch). I also have 2 G26s (Gen 3 and Gen 4).
I carry my Kahr in a pocket holster at work during the summer time due to my work attire. However, I switch to my G26 when I get home and on the weekends in an IWB holster. Attire permitting, the G26 is my first choice.
So, the bottom line is that only you can decide on what will fit your needs. Of course, having both is ideal.

Bruce M
10-30-2012, 10:01
I would not consider trading a G26 for a PM9 unless I had an extra G26.

bullseye9mm
10-30-2012, 10:14
Points well taken. I have stepped away from the edge of trading the trusty g26 away

Thank you all for the various points of view

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