THE 357 Sig Reloading Thread... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ArrowJ
10-30-2012, 08:44
I keep coming up with more questions about reloading the 357 Sig. I thought it would be nice to have one thread that could catch all the tips, tricks, questions, and answers concerning reloading for this caliber.

First, it is my understand that if you use a carbide 40 S&W full length sizing die before running the 357 Sig brass through the steel 357 Sig die that it removes the need for lubing the cases. Am I understanding this correctly?

Second, there is some debate on headspace for the 357 Sig. I plan on headspacing from the shoulder and using the L.E. Wilson headspace gauge to make sure the rounds will chamber. I contacted L.E. Wilson, and they told me their gauge does indeed measure headspace from the shoulder. In addition, the gauge can be used for OAL as well. I have also watched a video on YouTube from a guy that uses the Hornady tool.

Another concern is choosing a powder. I was originally concerned with finding a low flash powder, and started a thread on the Cast Boolits forum about Vihtavuori powders with this in mind http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=168711. I still plan on trying these powders, but I think it might make more sense to try to duplicate the defensive round that will be carried in the weapon.

To this end I contacted Hornady regarding Hornady Custom Ammunition 124 Grain XTP JHP #9130. To closely duplicate the round it was suggested that I should use the 124 grain XTP JHP #35571 bullet along with Winchester Action Pistol powder. The Hornady ammo has a nominal velocity of 1350 fps. The Hornady Handbook of Cartidge Reloading 8th Edition suggests 9.3 grains of Win Act Pist to reach this velocity.

Next I contacted Speer regarding Speer Gold Dot Ammunition 125 Grain JHP #23918. This ammo uses Speer Gold Dot bullets 125 Grain Bonded JHP #4360, and has a nominal velocity of 1375 fps. The Speer Reloading Manual #14 lists four powders that will reach that velocity: AA No. 7, AA No. 9, Blue Dot, and Viht N105. The Speer CSR indicated that his choice would be AA No. 9.

I started a thread about 357 Sig brass life, but did not get much feedback. A guy on the Cast Boolits forum was loosing as many as half of his new brass by the fourth loading, but he did not indicate his load. I hope to do better than that, but if I am mirroring the above defense rounds I am skeptical.

Finally, I noticed that the Redding G-RX Carbide Base Sizing Die Kit #96150 is not only for 40 S&W, but also 357 Sig and 10mm. I plan on firing my 357 Sig loads from a Gen 4 Glock 31. Is bulging even an issue with this caliber/gun combination?

So what can you add about loading for this round? What questions do you have that others might answer?

fredj338
10-30-2012, 08:59
I have been loading the 357sig for a couple diff guns; G32, P239 & bbls for a Delta & USP. The biggest issues are headspace & bullet choice. Everything else is pretty much the same as any pistol round. You can certainly use a 40 carbiude sizeer to avid lubing cases, but I ponied up for te DIllon dies, IMO, well worth the extra $60. Adjusted correctly, they give the correct shoulder placement.
Then it's bullet selection. The XTP will work, but are expensive for practice ammo. Get some MG 125grRNFP for making up max practice equiv loads.
Powders, most will go with AA#9 & it is a good choice, but I also like Longshot & AA#7. WAP is no longer available, maybe AUtoComp could replace it, just haven't tried. One of the VV would be a good choice for lower flash, but I am fine using LS to duplicate factory ammo.
AS to brass life, I am on the 4rd loading, brass looks fine. With proper headsapce, I don't see why you can't get 5x reloads with once fired brass.

dkf
10-30-2012, 09:24
The PD 124gr 9mm JHP bullets work well and are a lot cheaper than pretty much any other jacketed bullet.(see avatar) I use Power Pistol for my loads. I just use a Lee 3pc steel die set and lube the cases with Lee case lube. I am more concerned with quality than quantity. Lee has the .357sig dies figured out.

I have some nickel FC .357sig brass that is on its 4th or 5th loading and it is good shape thus far. I do not push it though as my loads are well under 1400fps. I see no need for a pass through bulge buster or GRX die for my .357sig brass and all my brass is fired in Glocks with the factory barrel. The Lee .357sig sizer sizes down pretty far on the case also, any slight belly gets sized out.

Stay away from any remington bullet for .357sig. Even there 100gr frangible (which I bought 3000 of) and is stated as works for .357sig does not work very well. The bullet has a driving band that is too far down on the bullet which you should load longer than SAAMI max OAL to get the best neck tension. Problem with longer than Max length is you up with malfunctions. Any 9mm XTP works very well(90, 115,124) Speer GD for the sig, sirerra jhps, certain MG bullets and etc work well also. Basically a bullet like the XTP profile with plenty of straight section.

F106 Fan
10-30-2012, 09:31
First, it is my understand that if you use a carbide 40 S&W full length sizing die before running the 357 Sig brass through the steel 357 Sig die that it removes the need for lubing the cases. Am I understanding this correctly?


Probably but what's the problem with lubing the cases?

I loaded .45 ACP using carbide dies and no lube for many years. It worked out fine. Some cases resize easier than others but they always sized properly.

But once I tried Hornady One Shot on the cases, everything was just a lot easier on me and the press. It makes the operation so much smoother and there is no reason to remove the lube after loading. I'll never go back to sizing dry.

If the lube absolutely must be removed, run the loaded rounds through the tumbler/vibratory cleaner.

I would buy the Dillon carbide die set for .357 Sig, lube the cases with HOS and call it a day. All the fooling around making two passes over the brass is just too much of a PITA.

Richard

ArrowJ
10-30-2012, 10:28
But once I tried Hornady One Shot on the cases, everything was just a lot easier on me and the press. It makes the operation so much smoother and there is no reason to remove the lube after loading. I'll never go back to sizing dry.


I did not realize that HOS did not have to be removed. I thought tumbling loaded rounds was a no no?

F106 Fan
10-30-2012, 10:39
I did not realize that HOS did not have to be removed. I thought tumbling loaded rounds was a no no?

HOS is NOT that sticky case lube like RCBS used to sell. They may still sell it, for all I know. HOS is like lanolin with an alcohol carrier.

Where did you read/hear that tumbling loaded rounds was a problem? There are an awful lot of long time reloaders who have been doing it for years. If you're concerned about it, wipe the cases with a rag.

Frankly, I don't know why you would want to remove the lube. It doesn't hurt anything.

I place the empty cases in a plastic box and then spray LIGHTLY with HOS. I shake them around a little bit to spread the lube and then dump them into the case feeder where the lube continues to spread. Works well!

Richard

dkf
10-30-2012, 11:01
I did not realize that HOS did not have to be removed. I thought tumbling loaded rounds was a no no?

What little sizing lube that is left on the case I wipe off before they go in the box during final inspection. Or you can tumble them. The tumbling live rounds myth has been debunked many times. Matter of fact most factory ammo gets tumbled before it gets put in the box. I do not have to have super shiny ammo without a trace of marks on it so...

fredj338
10-30-2012, 13:02
One does not need any case lube w/ a carbide die for pistols. It does make things go snoother though. I have never been a fan of tumbling live ammo. Yes, others do it w/ no problems, yet, but like driving w/o a seat belt, you just never know.
OneShot can be left on, it isn't sticky. If you use RCBS or other pad type lube, it does need to come off. You do NOT want lube on your ammo, increases bolt/breech thrust, especially on high pressure rounds. OneShot dries & if you want to remove it, just dump 100rds into an old towel & roll them around a bit, done.

sig357fan
10-30-2012, 13:49
ArrowJ,

I load 357 Sig for a Gen 3 31 and reload on a Lee Classic Turret press.

Fired brass is ran through a 40 S&W carbide sizing die before tumbling. Once clean, I hand prime my brass, then onto the press with Lee steel 357 Sig dies, sizing die finish sizes the primed brass with the depriming stem removed. Then powder thru-expander, bullet seating and FCD.

I use my barrel as a gauge. With the barrel removed, hold it muzzle down and drop a round into the chamber, it should chamber freely and the head stamp end should be flush or just below flush with the barrel hood, invert the barrel and the round should fall out of the chamber freely.

Then I do a through the mag function test, first time I reloaded 357 Sig, I set COL with the barrel test but was just slightly too long to function through the mag, remember if you do this test, your hand cycling live ammo.

Set back is a concern with the 357 Sig due to its short neck, proper case sizing prevents this but load density is add insurance against it. I personally use Long Shot as it fills the case and give top velocity.

Cheap practice can be had with an aftermarket conversion barrel, G17 mag and 9mm reloads. I probably shoot twice as many 9mm in my 31 as I do 357 Sig reloads. I donít down load my 357 Sig reloads so 9mm conversion is an easy choice for less wear and tear on my weapon as well as myself.

Sig357fan

ArrowJ
10-30-2012, 13:58
The tumbling live rounds myth has been debunked many times.

I read it in the Sierra reloading manual as well as another source I cannot remember. I would not be all that worried about setting off a round. Sierra claimed it can effect the deterrent coating and cause the powder to burn faster thus increasing pressure.


http://highcaliberguns.com
http://thesitterdowners.com

F106 Fan
10-30-2012, 14:21
I read it in the Sierra reloading manual as well as another source I cannot remember. I would not be all that worried about setting off a round. Sierra claimed it can effect the deterrent coating and cause the powder to burn faster thus increasing pressure.


http://highcaliberguns.com
http://thesitterdowners.com

And yet being trucked for thousands of miles has no effect on the powder. How odd...

But you're right, Sierra advises against this.

"Regardless of the method used, handloaders should never tumble loaded ammunition. Doing so may cause a deterioration of the powder's deterrent coating, or, in extreme cases, may damage the powder itself. Either situation would alter the burning rate, possibly raising pressures to dangerous levels."


I would think this would be more of a problem with the vibratory cleaner.

I have only done it couple of times and haven't noticed any problems. I don't bother about the lube on pistol ammo and there simply isn't enough left on rifle ammo to matter. Assuming I am neck sizing only.

I guess if I was still using the RCBS stuff, I would be more interested in the problem but the Dillon and Hornady lubes are not a sticky mess.

Richard

unclebob
10-30-2012, 14:22
I read it in the Sierra reloading manual as well as another source I cannot remember. I would not be all that worried about setting off a round. Sierra claimed it can effect the deterrent coating and cause the powder to burn faster thus increasing pressure.


http://highcaliberguns.com
http://thesitterdowners.com

You are not tumbling the loaded rounds for a month. 10 to 15 minutes max. And even then it is not going to have any effect on the powder. Just think why isnít the inside of the case as shiny as the outside of the case after tumbling.

fredj338
10-30-2012, 18:07
Then I do a through the mag function test, first time I reloaded 357 Sig, I set COL with the barrel test but was just slightly too long to function through the mag, remember if you do this test, your hand cycling live ammo.

You should be setting up the dies with dummy rounds & cycle those. Cycling live rds is always an accident waiting to happen.

unclebob
10-30-2012, 18:28
Factory ammo is tumbled after it is loaded. You will have gun writers that will write a story true or false and other gun writers will repeat the same story as being fact without doing any test on there part. It has been proven many of times that it has no effect. Either vibrating or rotary.

freakshow10mm
10-30-2012, 22:48
I have never been a fan of tumbling live ammo. Yes, others do it w/ no problems, yet, but like driving w/o a seat belt, you just never know.
I read it in the Sierra reloading manual as well as another source I cannot remember. I would not be all that worried about setting off a round. Sierra claimed it can effect the deterrent coating and cause the powder to burn faster thus increasing pressure.
The amount of shaking and tumbling a round of 5.56 NATO goes through from Lake City Arsenal to Iraq or A-stan in the magazine of a soldier or Marine in combat, into the chamber of their weapon, and fires without incident makes me confident enough to not give a hoot. You think 10-15 minutes in a tumbler is going to matter versus 4,000+ miles of train, truck, and plane travel coupled with troops tossing ammo cans into trucks, and weapons being jostled about in combat?

WAP is no longer available
Ramshot Silhouette is WAP. Data interchanges. It's the same exact powder under a different brand name.

ArrowJ
10-30-2012, 23:22
Just for the record, I have no big problem tumbling loaded rounds. I have never done it, but I was just going on what I read in the Sierra Reloading Manual.

I wondered why I could not find Win Act Pist on Midway (not that I would pay hazmat to have it shipped).

fredj338
10-31-2012, 12:47
The amount of shaking and tumbling a round of 5.56 NATO goes through from Lake City Arsenal to Iraq or A-stan in the magazine of a soldier or Marine in combat, into the chamber of their weapon, and fires without incident makes me confident enough to not give a hoot. You think 10-15 minutes in a tumbler is going to matter versus 4,000+ miles of train, truck, and plane travel coupled with troops tossing ammo cans into trucks, and weapons being jostled about in combat?


Ramshot Silhouette is WAP. Data interchanges. It's the same exact powder under a different brand name.
I thought so, but WAP is actually not available. Funny the Hornady guy wouldn't know that.
As to tumbling ammo, I don't worry about the powder vibrating more the flook primer detonation. Yeah, I know, probably never happens, it just creeps me out throwing loaded ammo into a mixer bowl & having all those primers in there.:wow: I don;t recommend it, but don't condem it either.:dunno:

sellersm
10-31-2012, 13:22
Ramshot Silhouette is WAP. Data interchanges. It's the same exact powder under a different brand name.

^^^This is truth.


There are a few of us who just may happen to have some of the old WAP in the round 'tin cans', bought from some closeout sales... :whistling: