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Chris Brines
11-02-2012, 13:50
Hello everyone. I haven't been on Glocktalk for quite some time now but my local forum is crashed due to a distributed DOS attack. Some people have no lives whatsoever.

Anyway, I have a few questions. Well I got an AR15 about a year ago, and haven't shot it all that much. Ammo is expensive and my time is extremely limited. Well just recently, I decided to buy a dedicated 22LR upper for it, so I've shot it about 4 times in the last month or so.

Well my uppers are of the M4 configuration (rail on top, no carry handle, front site post, sorry if my lingo isn't correct).

And I have this scope:
http://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_3X_Compact_Scope_PAC3X_p/pac3x.htm

Anyway, the reason I got this AR, was for defense mainly, although I would not use it for home defense, we all know this is an unpredictable world and there is no guarantee that an AR15 will never be exactly what I need to defend my home, property and/or family from God only knows what. Obama supporters say they're gonna riot and burn down Detroit if Romney wins. Just one example.

Anyway, I have a few questions. First one is about 22LR ammo. I know this is the caliber most people start out shooting on, but to me it is new. Well I was at the range earlier at 50 yards trying to get my scope zeroed in on my 22LR upper, with the intent of switching it to my 5.56 upper afterwards, and zeroing it, counting and writing down the number of "clicks" it took me to get from zero on the 22LR, to zero on my 5.56. I also took pictures of the exact spot of the rail the scope was mounted, which I am not expecting to be an issue, both the uppers are the same exact size, as are their rails, and the scope simply goes on the front of the rail on both uppers.

But I have to ask something about 22LR ammo...is it just me or are there drastic accuracy differences in different types of ammo? I had CCI Stingers at first, I'd say I had about 30 rounds or so...got it dialed in perfectly with those, then after the cease fire I switched over to CCI Mini-Mags (target/plinking, not hp) and my shots were WAYYY off. Well I dialed it back in for where it was hitting with the mini mags...but I honestly wonder if there are certain ammo's that are more accurate than others. I can't tell if my stingers were accurate, or the mini mags, but one of them is obviously way off. Like I said, I don't hunt or anything, and would only use this rifle for sport purposes unless the entire world literally went to hell. And then I'd most likely use the 5.56 anyway, but 22LR is a very useful caliber from what I am learning, and I am sure it would even be useful for defensive purposes, so I wanna have a good accurate shot with them too. Any advice or insight on that subject is greatly appreciated.


Next question is about my scope. I am not sure if anyone will be able to answer this question, or if it is even a question that has a straight answer, but I am wondering if anyone can maybe explain this to me since I know very little about optics. Well I got my 5.56 dialed in perfectly, at 50yds, using Hornady Steel Match 55 grain .223 HP's.

But I know that 50 yards is not the ideal range to dial a scope in for this caliber, so next range trip I will be going out to 100 yds. I am just wondering if anyone can take a look at that scope and give me a rough idea of just how much of an adjustment I'll be making when I go out to 100 yds. If I shoot at bullseye with the scopes current setting at 100 yds, will my shots be low or high? I'm thinking low but I could be wrong. So I am guessing I'll needa drop the scope a little to raise my shots up. Does anyone have a rough idea of just how much lower my shots will be by this doubling of the distance? Just curious because I pretty much figured out that at 50 yards, 5 "clicks" is about 3 inches, so am I correct in assuming that 5 clicks would be about half that at 100 yds?

Anyway, that's about as simply as I can put it. If anyone doesn't understand my questions, just let me know.

Help and explanations are appreciated. Thanks!

Armchair Commando
11-02-2012, 14:30
Minimags are much more accurate than stingers out of all my 22s.
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Chris Brines
11-02-2012, 15:51
Minimags are much more accurate than stingers out of all my 22s.
posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Thanks. idk why Stingers are twice the price of most 22 ammo but I was told it is good ammo and to buy as much of it as I can afford. You can't hunt deer with Stingers can you? Why are they so expensive I wonder...anyway, if anyone else can answer some of the questions I have about optics and accuracy, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

Armchair Commando
11-02-2012, 16:22
Thanks. idk why Stingers are twice the price of most 22 ammo but I was told it is good ammo and to buy as much of it as I can afford. You can't hunt deer with Stingers can you? Why are they so expensive I wonder...anyway, if anyone else can answer some of the questions I have about optics and accuracy, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

You can't hunt deer legally with them but they will easily kill a deer in desperate times if need be. I would buy bricks of federal 525 if i was you, their on par with Minimags as far as accuracy is concerned and you can get a brick for 18 bucks.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Sgtsaj
11-02-2012, 16:26
Hello everyone. I haven't been on Glocktalk for quite some time now but my local forum is crashed due to a distributed DOS attack. Some people have no lives whatsoever.

Anyway, I have a few questions. Well I got an AR15 about a year ago, and haven't shot it all that much. Ammo is expensive and my time is extremely limited. Well just recently, I decided to buy a dedicated 22LR upper for it, so I've shot it about 4 times in the last month or so.

Well my uppers are of the M4 configuration (rail on top, no carry handle, front site post, sorry if my lingo isn't correct).

And I have this scope:
http://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_3X_Compact_Scope_PAC3X_p/pac3x.htm

Anyway, the reason I got this AR, was for defense mainly, although I would not use it for home defense, we all know this is an unpredictable world and there is no guarantee that an AR15 will never be exactly what I need to defend my home, property and/or family from God only knows what. Obama supporters say they're gonna riot and burn down Detroit if Romney wins. Just one example.

Anyway, I have a few questions. First one is about 22LR ammo. I know this is the caliber most people start out shooting on, but to me it is new. Well I was at the range earlier at 50 yards trying to get my scope zeroed in on my 22LR upper, with the intent of switching it to my 5.56 upper afterwards, and zeroing it, counting and writing down the number of "clicks" it took me to get from zero on the 22LR, to zero on my 5.56. I also took pictures of the exact spot of the rail the scope was mounted, which I am not expecting to be an issue, both the uppers are the same exact size, as are their rails, and the scope simply goes on the front of the rail on both uppers.

But I have to ask something about 22LR ammo...is it just me or are there drastic accuracy differences in different types of ammo? I had CCI Stingers at first, I'd say I had about 30 rounds or so...got it dialed in perfectly with those, then after the cease fire I switched over to CCI Mini-Mags (target/plinking, not hp) and my shots were WAYYY off. Well I dialed it back in for where it was hitting with the mini mags...but I honestly wonder if there are certain ammo's that are more accurate than others. I can't tell if my stingers were accurate, or the mini mags, but one of them is obviously way off. Like I said, I don't hunt or anything, and would only use this rifle for sport purposes unless the entire world literally went to hell. And then I'd most likely use the 5.56 anyway, but 22LR is a very useful caliber from what I am learning, and I am sure it would even be useful for defensive purposes, so I wanna have a good accurate shot with them too. Any advice or insight on that subject is greatly appreciated.


Next question is about my scope. I am not sure if anyone will be able to answer this question, or if it is even a question that has a straight answer, but I am wondering if anyone can maybe explain this to me since I know very little about optics. Well I got my 5.56 dialed in perfectly, at 50yds, using Hornady Steel Match 55 grain .223 HP's.

But I know that 50 yards is not the ideal range to dial a scope in for this caliber, so next range trip I will be going out to 100 yds. I am just wondering if anyone can take a look at that scope and give me a rough idea of just how much of an adjustment I'll be making when I go out to 100 yds. If I shoot at bullseye with the scopes current setting at 100 yds, will my shots be low or high? I'm thinking low but I could be wrong. So I am guessing I'll needa drop the scope a little to raise my shots up. Does anyone have a rough idea of just how much lower my shots will be by this doubling of the distance? Just curious because I pretty much figured out that at 50 yards, 5 "clicks" is about 3 inches, so am I correct in assuming that 5 clicks would be about half that at 100 yds?

Anyway, that's about as simply as I can put it. If anyone doesn't understand my questions, just let me know.

Help and explanations are appreciated. Thanks!

Theres nothing wrong with zeroing at 50 yards. With that round you'll be shooting to point of aim at 50 and 150, half an inch high at 100 and about 1 3/4 inches low at 200. To hit at 100, hold over half an inch low or dial your scope 1/2 a mil down.

Chris Brines
11-02-2012, 17:19
You can't hunt deer legally with them but they will easily kill a deer in desperate times if need be. I would buy bricks of federal 525 if i was you, their on par with Minimags as far as accuracy is concerned and you can get a brick for 18 bucks.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Thanks and can you point me to where I can find them at that price? I'll keep looking but I haven't found them that cheap yet. I'd sure like to get a few bricks if I could.

JimM_PA
11-02-2012, 17:22
Minimags are much more accurate than stingers out of all my 22s.
posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)
That's been my experience as well.

Armchair Commando
11-02-2012, 17:31
Thanks and can you point me to where I can find them at that price? I'll keep looking but I haven't found them that cheap yet. I'd sure like to get a few bricks if I could.

Palmetto state armory

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WoodenPlank
11-02-2012, 19:49
If you are using your AR for defensive uses, a 50 yard zero is ideal in my book. If I remember the numbers correctly, you'll be about 1.5" high at 100, and (depending on velocity, etc) roughly dead on again a bit past 200 yards (ie: 200 meters). Either way, you'll be vertically within 2.5" or so out to 250 yards. More than enough accuracy for minute of goblin.

If your scope is set for 1/4MOA adjustments, you'll only need about 6-8 clicks (depending on ammo, barrel length, and conditions) to go from a 50 yard zero to 100. Half that many if it uses 1/2MOA adjustments.

Second edit: That PA scope uses 1/3MOA adjustment clicks, which is kinda odd. At that rate, you'll need roughly 4 to 5 clicks to adjust from a 50 yard zero to 100. Clicks will be DOWN, as you need to bring point of impact down.

(Unfortunately, my main optic is a 4MOA Aimpoint, so I stopped trying to memorize the offsets past 50 yards when I realized it was always going to be inside the 4MOA dot. Forgive me if I'm off a bit on the numbers)

Edit: Here's a chart by Molon, stolen from TOS.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/ab086yqmn1.jpg

mjkeat
11-02-2012, 20:44
Don't go buying a bunch of ammunition until you've verified it'll function in your firearm.

What lead you to the decision you wouldn't use an AR for home defense?

K. Foster
11-02-2012, 21:22
Yes it is common to see different points of impact with various loads. It is also common for guns to have an individual preference for the ammo they group well with. You’ll have to buy a few different loads and see what your rifle likes. Mini Mags are a good start.
With a 50 yard zero, you’ll be approximately 2 inches high at 100 yards.

Cole125
11-02-2012, 23:33
I'll add that, yes different ammo can and will have a different point of impact. Its not just .22s, wether it's a pellet gun or a .308, different projectiles will have a different point of impact and some will shoot better than others out of a given gun.

Chris Brines
11-03-2012, 13:57
Don't go buying a bunch of ammunition until you've verified it'll function in your firearm.

What lead you to the decision you wouldn't use an AR for home defense?

Well, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't "not" use it for home defense. If it were sitting right there ready to fire and some dirtbag broke in my house he'd get lit up with whatever I had available. But to be honest with you, I live in a 1 bedroom apartment in a pretty densely populated urban area, and I have my AR15 hidden VERY well so that if by some chance my home is burglarized when I am not home (not that unlikely of a possibility...luckily I am almost always home and am never outside of arms reach of a Glock 26 or a Ruger GP100), my rifle will not be found.

I have the plastic boxes that my Glocks came in with some 3lb weights inside of them and the red lock that came with them wrapped around it REALLY tight so that they can't be opened without cutting the locks. And they are in a spot RIGHT in front of my closet, practically screaming, "steal me steal me". I am hoping that thieves would see those two boxes and grab them and leave thinking they just made off with 2 Glocks.

I do worry about over penetration in my apartment with a 223 or 5.56 though.

Made in Austria
11-03-2012, 15:00
Well, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't "not" use it for home defense. If it were sitting right there ready to fire and some dirtbag broke in my house he'd get lit up with whatever I had available. But to be honest with you, I live in a 1 bedroom apartment in a pretty densely populated urban area, and I have my AR15 hidden VERY well so that if by some chance my home is burglarized when I am not home (not that unlikely of a possibility...luckily I am almost always home and am never outside of arms reach of a Glock 26 or a Ruger GP100), my rifle will not be found.

I have the plastic boxes that my Glocks came in with some 3lb weights inside of them and the red lock that came with them wrapped around it REALLY tight so that they can't be opened without cutting the locks. And they are in a spot RIGHT in front of my closet, practically screaming, "steal me steal me". I am hoping that thieves would see those two boxes and grab them and leave thinking they just made off with 2 Glocks.

I do worry about over penetration in my apartment with a 223 or 5.56 though.


I love that weight and lock idea! Thats just genius! I wouldn't use a Ar15 as a home defense weapon in a apartment either.

MrMurphy
11-03-2012, 15:05
With modern softpoints/JHPs, the 5.56mm will generally penetrate walls less than a pistol hollowpoint.

Proven, tested, verified, by the FBI themselves, for over a decade.

I'll always take a rifle first. Pistol might be closer (having lived in that situation, often is) but given five seconds notice, I'll take the rifle. Every time.

K. Foster
11-03-2012, 16:20
I have the plastic boxes that my Glocks came in with some 3lb weights inside of them and the red lock that came with them wrapped around it REALLY tight so that they can't be opened without cutting the locks. And they are in a spot RIGHT in front of my closet, practically screaming, "steal me steal me".

That's great:rofl:

Chris Brines
11-03-2012, 16:31
If I lived in a house and had more than maybe 5 or 6 feet of space in front of me at any given time when at home, my first choice would be a rifle. Actually a shotgun probably. Plus to be perfectly honest, my wife is pretty gun phobic and is terrified just at the sight of my rifle, so I kinda try to keep things out of sight. She is from Mexico and is still completely shocked and in disbelief how many Americans have guns, and is having a really difficult time understanding and accepting the fact that not all gun owners have ill intentions. It's been a source of quite a few disagreements in my house (I have 6 guns...got them all within the last year....not to mention X amount of rounds stashed in X place). My GP100 with a 6" barrel really freaks her out lol...we kinda came to an agreement that if I want to do anything with my gun I take it in another room. But the Glock 26 sits right on the nightstand, every minute I am home. And every time I leave the house it's on my waist.

A few of her friends from Mexico expressed interest in learning more about guns (most Mexicans are clueless about guns, unless they are thugs) and I think if I can get them to come shoot with me I'll be able to get my wife to relax a little bit. I've tried telling her hundreds of times a gun can only do as much damage as the person holding it wants it to do. And that as long as you follow the safety rules, you have nothing at all to be afraid of. I did force her to learn how to shoot a Glock though. Just out of concern for her own well being in a house with 6 guns (as of now, there will be more added I can promise you that).