Winchester RA556B vs ZQ3313 vs ZQ3314 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Warp
11-03-2012, 00:49
Q3313 and RA556B. They are identical rounds, simply with different packaging/presentation/availability, right? I realize the ZQ3313 is reclassified, and what that means.


I ask because I recently ordered 4 (20 round) boxes of the RA556B ($30 each!) and, as I think about it, I am not that comfortable loading my HD/travel/SHTF rifle with something I will have so few rounds downrange with. And my ammo budget is nearly tapped out after a bunch of 193 and 855 for general training.

I need to make another order with SGAmmo anyway so I think I'll get some ZQ3313 ("only" $18/20 rounds) to get more rounds of the load downrange before I load my rifle with it.

Good idea?

Links to specifics in question:

http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/20-rds-556mm-bonded-winchester-ranger-64gr-jsp-ammo-ra556b

http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/20-rd-box-556mm-winchester-64-grain-nosler-bonded-bsb-soft-point-zq3313


ALSO: How does ZQ3314, the Winchester Training load, play into this? At $16/30 rounds, I'm all about using that for training if it will have the same basic POI at various ranges as the RA556B.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/30-rd-sleeve-556-mm-open-tip-62-grain-hollow-point-winchester-fbi-contract-zq3314

K. Foster
11-03-2012, 08:57
I would definitely go with the cheaper 3313 load. For training, use the cheaper xm193 type loads. At 100 yards and in, the point of impact shift will be minimal.
The 3314 is supposed to be a cost effective training load to duplicate a HP loading the FBI is using. What the difference is, I’m not sure. Cost effective and Federal gov usually don’t go together well. You would be fine with that load if you wanted a HP. For defense, I would stay with a SP.

Foxtrotx1
11-03-2012, 12:51
I'm sure you already saw the post from SGammo on TOS.

Ammo might not meet velocity specs, could be fine, might not meet accuracy specs. It's a crap shoot with the ZQ stuff.

Foxtrotx1
11-03-2012, 12:51
I would definitely go with the cheaper 3313 load. For training, use the cheaper xm193 type loads. At 100 yards and in, the point of impact shift will be minimal.
The 3314 is supposed to be a cost effective training load to duplicate a HP loading the FBI is using. What the difference is, I’m not sure. Cost effective and Federal gov usually don’t go together well. You would be fine with that load if you wanted a HP. For defense, I would stay with a SP.

The loads are rejected for GOV work and reclassified for civies. It's a crapshoot.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=24448 check this out

Foxtrotx1
11-03-2012, 12:56
Delete.

Warp
11-03-2012, 13:23
The loads are rejected for GOV work and reclassified for civies. It's a crapshoot.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=24448 check this out

I am aware of the Z status. But is the Q3313 the same as the RA556B? I wouldn't load the ZQ3313 for 'real deal' use, but if it is the same as RA556B (other than whatever got it reclassified, of course) it has use to me for function testing and zero'ing and other range/training stuff while costing about 1/2 what the RA556B does.

As for that Gold Dot, it's out of stock. Also, I want to stick with actual 5.56 as much as possible, not .223, and the 5.56 Gold Dot is extremely difficult to find and is no longer produced regularly. I have 90 rounds of the 5.56 55gr Gold Dot left, but am switching to the newer FBI Load (Fed and Win both have one) because, well, it is currently being produced where the Gold Dot is not. I think the FBI load is a little better too.

PS: .223 Gold Dot is in stock at SGAmmo

SCmasterblaster
11-03-2012, 16:44
Wow these are .223 deals? Expensive!

Foxtrotx1
11-03-2012, 16:48
I am aware of the Z status. But is the Q3313 the same as the RA556B? I wouldn't load the ZQ3313 for 'real deal' use, but if it is the same as RA556B (other than whatever got it reclassified, of course) it has use to me for function testing and zero'ing and other range/training stuff while costing about 1/2 what the RA556B does.

As for that Gold Dot, it's out of stock. Also, I want to stick with actual 5.56 as much as possible, not .223, and the 5.56 Gold Dot is extremely difficult to find and is no longer produced regularly. I have 90 rounds of the 5.56 55gr Gold Dot left, but am switching to the newer FBI Load (Fed and Win both have one) because, well, it is currently being produced where the Gold Dot is not. I think the FBI load is a little better too.

PS: .223 Gold Dot is in stock at SGAmmo

I just use the Federal Fusion stuff. Sure, it's not LE ammo, but the projectile is good and it is plenty reliable.

Foxtrotx1
11-03-2012, 16:49
Wow these are .223 deals? Expensive!

It's not plinking ammo. Welcome to the world of protecting your life.

Tiro Fijo
11-03-2012, 19:03
It's not plinking ammo. Welcome to the world of protecting your life.


:rofl: :animlol:


Sig line worthy!!

Warp
11-03-2012, 20:17
Wow these are .223 deals? Expensive!

No. Not a single one that I am talking about is a .223 load. Go back and read.

I just use the Federal Fusion stuff. Sure, it's not LE ammo, but the projectile is good and it is plenty reliable.

The Federal Fusion bullet is the Gold Dot bullet. ;)


It's not plinking ammo. Welcome to the world of protecting your life.

Sure enough.

cowboy1964
11-03-2012, 21:52
Yeah, there is no more 5.56 Gold Dot, it is just .223. It's an expanding round anyway, not a fragmenter, so you don't need the extra velocity.

$1.50 per round?? Ugh. You can get Black Hills Mk 262 5.56 for a little more than $1 (IF you can find it).

Warp
11-03-2012, 22:04
Yeah, there is no more 5.56 Gold Dot, it is just .223. It's an expanding round anyway, not a fragmenter, so you don't need the extra velocity.

$1.50 per round?? Ugh. You can get Black Hills Mk 262 5.56 for a little more than $1 (IF you can find it).

This stuff > Mk 262

This rifle is my HD gun but it is also my "SHTF" rifle and my traveling rifle (do lots of interstate driving, can and do have the rifle available in the car), so I am concerned with its ability to perform through intermediate barriers.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

WiskyT
11-04-2012, 05:45
This stuff > Mk 262

This rifle is my HD gun but it is also my "SHTF" rifle and my traveling rifle (do lots of interstate driving, can and do have the rifle available in the car), so I am concerned with its ability to perform through intermediate barriers.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

Those people love to spend YOUR money.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/20rd-556-q3269-556-mm-winchester-m855-ss109-green-tip

Warp
11-04-2012, 11:27
Those people love to spend YOUR money.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/20rd-556-q3269-556-mm-winchester-m855-ss109-green-tip

In terms of terminal ballistic performance the good stuff ****s all over M855, both in terms of consistency and when fired through a barrier.

I do have 440 rounds of XM855, and I recently put 130 of them through my rifle as well. I'll keep magazines loaded with it...but they won't be in the gun.

WiskyT
11-04-2012, 11:40
In terms of terminal ballistic performance the good stuff ****s all over M855, both in terms of consistency and when fired through a barrier.

I do have 440 rounds of XM855, and I recently put 130 of them through my rifle as well. I'll keep magazines loaded with it...but they won't be in the gun.

No, the "good stuff" costs more and makes people feel important if they promote or buy it. It's going really fast, has a steel core and makes holes in things. That's really good. If you think you can accomplish any more than that with a 5.56, you're kidding yourself.

Warp
11-04-2012, 11:57
No, the "good stuff" costs more and makes people feel important if they promote or buy it. It's going really fast, has a steel core and makes holes in things. That's really good. If you think you can accomplish any more than that with a 5.56, you're kidding yourself.

Real world results disagree with you.

Gel tests disagree with you.

The United States armed forces disagree with you.

Law enforcement agencies disagree with you.

You are wrong.

M855 is far from optimal for defensive use.

If you disagree and would like to discuss this, please start a thread about it either here or in the black rifle forum, and we can discuss the matter.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.223

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

WiskyT
11-04-2012, 12:05
Real world results disagree with you.

Gel tests disagree with you.

The United States armed forces disagree with you.

Law enforcement agencies disagree with you.

You are wrong.

M855 is far from optimal for defensive use.

If you disagree and would like to discuss this, please start a thread about it either here or in the black rifle forum, and we can discuss the matter.

:rofl::rofl: From a guy who thinks the real world won't break into his car and steal his rifle:rofl::rofl: Guess what, unless you carry that thing around with you when you get out of your car, the real world is going to show you the results of a burglary/theft from MV. The only reason I lock my car is because the thieves are so used to them being locked, they icepick the door without even checking.

Check on the real world frequency of bulrgaries to MV's vs. citizen rifle encounters from trunk bound weapons and further, cross compare that data with the number of times a citizen came up lacking because his centerfire rifle rounds weren't AR15.com approved.

Black rifle forum:rofl:

Warp
11-04-2012, 12:07
I have no idea what you think you are talking about with any of the above garbage.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19590177#post19590177

WiskyT
11-04-2012, 12:22
I have no idea what you think you are talking about with any of the above garbage.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19590177#post19590177

What is the purpose of cross posting in another forum? I've never even clicked on the black rifle forum as far as I can remember.

I guess you're all butthurt and want help from your fellow "warriors":rofl:

New thread: "I need an ammo that will punch through an M1A1 for my 5.56 rifle because I'm a real world warrior. If any of my fellow warriors can go over to Caliber Corner and make everybody agree with me it would be a great help because in the real world, anyone who disagrees with me hurts me feelings."

Stay strong bra!

:rofl:

Warp
11-04-2012, 12:25
What is the purpose of cross posting in another forum? I've never even clicked on the black rifle forum as far as I can remember.

You are wrong. Again.

It's in this forum.

Go share your knowledge and save people money.

WiskyT
11-04-2012, 13:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIcM73C8V54

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6gHCNMSbqQ&feature=related

Warp
11-04-2012, 13:32
Do either of those videos address the similarities/differences between Q3313 and RA556B?

Do either of those videos address terminal performance in the target (IE in tissue)?

In other words...is there any relevance at all?

SCmasterblaster
11-04-2012, 13:57
It's not plinking ammo. Welcome to the world of protecting your life.

The rounds must stop attackers very well. :cool:

Warp
11-04-2012, 13:59
The rounds must stop attackers very well. :cool:

That is generally the requirement people are primarily looking for in defensive ammunition, yes.