10mm MOST effecient round [Archive] - Glock Talk

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OhioGlockMan
11-03-2012, 20:00
I was just working up some figures on efficiency when crunching my chronograph figures I have compiled this year from many cartridges because I recalled an article I read in one of the gun mags a few years back all about cartridge efficiency- they had a simple equation, muzzle energy/grains of powder. I remember two things from the article, the .308 is top of the line for efficiency in the high power rifle cartridges and the article said the 22 long rifle is the most efficient cartridge (150 foot lbs energy from two grains of powder = 75 ft.lbs energy per grain of powder) BUT the 10mm from my 6 inch barrel is EVEN MORE efficient. I get 1300 fps from 8.5 grains powder pistol with a 180 grainer, that equates to 79 ft-lbs per grain!!!! EVEN MORE then my 357 lever action carbine with 16 inch barrel, that takes 16.7 grains of winchester 296 to push a 158 grain slug 1750 fps, yes impressive BUT only 64 ft-lbs per grain, and this is 16 inc barrel. My load of 8 grains of unique comes out to 76 foot lbs per grain efficiency.

_The_Shadow
11-03-2012, 20:09
10mm is what it is! A ballistically perfect delivery system!

alwaysshootin
11-03-2012, 22:08
As far as I'm concerned, there is only two downsides to the 10MM.

1.) Most ladies don't care for the recoil
2.) Most ladies don't care for the grip size of the delivery weapon

Other than that, it's the perfect cartridge!

OhioGlockMan
11-03-2012, 23:07
Shadow, you got that right about the perfect delivery system!

AlwaysShootin- FYI my research and development has created a great "lady and youth" 10mm load- insert any 155 grain pill and standard non mag primer and 7.3 grains unique powder. Clocks around 1265 fps from my 6 inch barrel, Id estimate around 1200 from standard length barrel. Very soft shooting and also operates the slide on my glock 20 reliably.

I wish someone with more expertise then me can explain technically why the 10mm from a 6 inch barrel has such extremely high efficiency in terms of ft-lbs of energy per grain of powder. I mean gosh even higher then a 16 inch barrel from the 357 mag

dm1906
11-04-2012, 00:42
Shadow, you got that right about the perfect delivery system!

AlwaysShootin- FYI my research and development has created a great "lady and youth" 10mm load- insert any 155 grain pill and standard non mag primer and 7.3 grains unique powder. Clocks around 1265 fps from my 6 inch barrel, Id estimate around 1200 from standard length barrel. Very soft shooting and also operates the slide on my glock 20 reliably.

I wish someone with more expertise then me can explain technically why the 10mm from a 6 inch barrel has such extremely high efficiency in terms of ft-lbs of energy per grain of powder. I mean gosh even higher then a 16 inch barrel from the 357 mag

Pressure. The 10mm is efficient, because it can utilize greater pressure with a similar case capacity to gain an advantage. Have you calculated the cost into your efficiency figures? I do, for bulk target rounds, and find Unique is probably the most efficient powder. Certainly, it's not the most "powerful" powder to be had, but it will provide the most efficient round for general purpose. Less grains per load, and the least cost per pound, compared to "optimal" powders. I load/shoot a couple/few thousand rounds per month. Unique is the preferred powder for most of them, of a dozen calibers. Granted, I don't use Unique for 10mm, or magnums, but I do for .38SPL and up, with W231 for smaller rounds, like .32 and .380, because it's the most efficient powder that will meter such small volumes effectively. Magnums get Blue Dot and up (10mm is a magnum). I could load the magnums cheaper (by a lot), but why bother? They're magnums. What fun would that be?

gofastman
11-04-2012, 08:40
As far as I'm concerned, there is only two downsides to the 10MM.

1.) Most ladies don't care for the recoil
2.) Most ladies don't care for the grip size of the delivery weapon

Other than that, it's the perfect cartridge!

How about a compensated single-stack 1911?
...especially if its nickle plated...Girls love shiny things! :rofl:

alwaysshootin
11-04-2012, 09:56
Shadow, you got that right about the perfect delivery system!

AlwaysShootin- FYI my research and development has created a great "lady and youth" 10mm load- insert any 155 grain pill and standard non mag primer and 7.3 grains unique powder. Clocks around 1265 fps from my 6 inch barrel, Id estimate around 1200 from standard length barrel. Very soft shooting and also operates the slide on my glock 20 reliably.



I've even come up with some lighter loads, the recoil is definitely not the "major" problem. It's the grip size, that so many have a problem with, including my wife. She can't handle that big of a grip, along with the recoil. She can't control even the G21! Second, and third shots, are impossible, because the firearm is leaving her hand.

All the talk of "Glock" needs to come out with a single stack 9MM. Bull hockey, that's been done by quite a few others. What, just to compete in that part of the market? I say a G36 in 10MM, and a full sized single stack, with a magazine capacity of 9 or so in 10MM, and 45 ACP. That's what the market needs!

OhioGlockMan
11-04-2012, 10:28
DM1906, yes I too am finding out that Unique is a great all round powder! I know you can't get magnum speed loads with it but it still is not bad, with the 6 inch barrel I can get round 1200 FPS with a 180 and 1325 with a 155, thats not bad at all for enjoyable plinking loads. I'm just starting to play with it in 357 magnum too, round 8ish grains with a 125 grain pill seems to be a good plinking load in both my carbine and 3 inch SP101, I have not chronographeed it yet but in the revolver Id estimate its going as fast as the same weight bullet in 9mm+p, and the carbine is prob doing something like 1600 fps, not bad for all day plinking. I used to use it in 44 mag for warm inbetween 44special and 44 mag loads back 20 yrs ago with my dad, we found 10 grains was about right for a 240 grainer. I was a teenager then and it was my dads gun, a smith 629, he sold it after getting sick with cancer and passed away, but its on my to do list to buy another 629 just like my dad and I used to shoot together

Alwaysshootin- I totally agree Glock NEEDS to come up with a single stack 10mm & 45 frame! that's one of the biggest selling points of a 1911 vs glock 45, the glock 9's nad 40's are thin enough for the ladies but def not the 10mm and 45's. 8 or 10 rounds of 45 or 10mm is pleanty of man stopping wallop too

nickE10mm
11-05-2012, 08:58
:) sounds about right!

gator378
11-05-2012, 14:01
Shadow, you got that right about the perfect delivery system!

AlwaysShootin- FYI my research and development has created a great "lady and youth" 10mm load- insert any 155 grain pill and standard non mag primer and 7.3 grains unique powder. Clocks around 1265 fps from my 6 inch barrel, Id estimate around 1200 from standard length barrel. Very soft shooting and also operates the slide on my glock 20 reliably.

I wish someone with more expertise then me can explain technically why the 10mm from a 6 inch barrel has such extremely high efficiency in terms of ft-lbs of energy per grain of powder. I mean gosh even higher then a 16 inch barrel from the 357 mag
Simple physics. Longer barrel means longer time to push on the bullet with the available gas from the powder. Work = force x distance. If I remember correctly. I love long barrels.

dm1906
11-05-2012, 15:07
Simple physics. Longer barrel means longer time to push on the bullet with the available gas from the powder. Work = force x distance. If I remember correctly. I love long barrels.

This is correct, when comparing a specific cartridge fired in differing barrel lengths.

When comparing different cartridges, barrel length is irrelevant to the specific cartridge's potential. Comparing a .357M fired in a 16" barrel to a 10mm fired in a 6 barrel reveals the cartridge efficiencies, based on their specific base potential, specific to their components under those specific conditions.

OhioGlockMan
11-05-2012, 17:19
This is correct, when comparing a specific cartridge fired in differing barrel lengths.

When comparing different cartridges, barrel length is irrelevant to the specific cartridge's potential. Comparing a .357M fired in a 16" barrel to a 10mm fired in a 6 barrel reveals the cartridge efficiencies, based on their specific base potential, specific to their components under those specific conditions.

When I crunched all my chronograph and load data numbers to compare the 10mm from a 6 inch barrel and 357 mag from 16 inch, the 357 in 16in is capable of producing higher ft-lbs BUT overall it takes more grains of powder per ft-lb of energy which really surprised me and told me the 10mm is really really efficient, even more then 22 LR from rifle barrel, which is that that article on cartridge efficiency stated was the most efficient u can get. It's actually amazing. Think about this, I know the 357 mag is a different cartridge but both the 10mm and 357 are similar pressures and 16 inches is vastly more tube to accelerate then 6 inches. I bet the 10mm in a carbine would outperform the 357 carbine

SDGlock23
11-06-2012, 14:53
That's pretty efficient. I used your math on my 6.5gr Unique load that shoots a 180gr @ 1180 fps (average velocity @ 1.125") from my 6" KKM G24 bbl. That's 42.8 ft-lbs per 0.5 gr or 85.6 ft-lbs per 1.0gr

MakeMineA10mm
11-19-2012, 08:12
Pressure. The 10mm is efficient, because it can utilize greater pressure with a similar case capacity to gain an advantage.

Well, pressure isn't quite right. The standard max pressure for 10mm is 37,500psi, and 357 was reduced a few years ago to, I think, 35,000psi. Not much of a difference, really. And if we look at old 357 standards, it had a higher pressure limit than the 10mm's.

I think the efficiency advantage for the 10mm has more to do with the expansion ratio. Expansion ratio is the relationship between the speed, pressure, and especially quantity of powder/gas-generated to the cross-sectional area of the bore. The 10mm's powder capacity is ideal to it's bore cross-section, and this ratio, when utilized with powders which pack a lot of potential energy while filling up the case and operating at peak pressure, gives the maximum energy per grain of powder.

10mm is da bomb!


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OhioGlockMan
11-21-2012, 09:38
I wish someone on here would run some of our typical 10mm loadings through quickload with both standard and 6 inch barrel lengths, that would be neat to see because that program from what I can tell is very accurate at predicting the percent of powder burnt and pressure curve and velocity. Pretty expensive at 150 bucks but I prob will get it one day

nickE10mm
11-21-2012, 11:17
I wish someone on here would run some of our typical 10mm loadings through quickload with both standard and 6 inch barrel lengths, that would be neat to see because that program from what I can tell is very accurate at predicting the percent of powder burnt and pressure curve and velocity. Pretty expensive at 150 bucks but I prob will get it one day

I will second that request

MakeMineA10mm
11-22-2012, 19:31
Quickload is high on my Christmas list too!


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