First rifle suggestions [Archive] - Glock Talk

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firefighter4215
11-04-2012, 14:01
I'm sure this topic never gets addressed here...*sarcasm* In all seriousness, I'm looking at getting an entry-level rifle as my first rifle. I've been looking seriously at the S&W M&P 15 Sport, a DPMS Panther Oracle, and possibly the Mossberg MMR Tactical. I've never heard of Del-Ton, but saw some of their rifles in that same general price range. This gun will be mostly for range use, but will also double as a home defense weapon. The S&W seems to get pretty good reviews. I'd appreciate any opinions.

WoodenPlank
11-04-2012, 14:09
Of the three you specifically mentioned, Sport by a very long mile. DPMS has a very hit-and-miss track record, and Mossberg is very new to the AR market. The sport is proving to be quite solid, though, even though it omits the dust cover and forward assist.

Other options would include PSA (if you don't mind wait times), or saving up a little more money and getting a Bravo Company upper on a lower of your choice, or even a Colt 6920.

If you are interested in building one yourself (or have a COMPETENT gunsmith/armorer nearby to do the assembly for you), then I would keep an eye for Palmetto State Armory to have more blemished lowers available for sale, and start from there. I grabbed one last week for $60 before shipping and transfer fees, and will be eventually building it up as a 20" rifle.

faawrenchbndr
11-04-2012, 14:23
Tons of options. If your budget can handle $1k, you will have a
QUALITY rifle,not a stripped down sub-par compromise.

Colt
BCM
Daniel Defense
Stag
RRA
Armalite

In that order, all under or jut over a grand.

Tim151515
11-04-2012, 14:42
if your in the 600 dollar price range get the sport by far. its basically a mp15 with no dustcover, forward assist or chrome lining on the barrell(though it does have a very strong lining)

now, this could be a great thing. dustcover and forward assist arent all that important for what you would be doing with it(hell the originals didn't have them). So, in the future, if you wanted to put a little bit more money into it you could swap at the barrell for a pencil barrel and make a very nice ultralite build.

I am actually suprised more manufactures dont offer upper receivers that lack a forward assist for lightweight builds.

Cole125
11-04-2012, 17:24
Smith & Wesson M&P sport by a long shot, if around six bills is all you can spend than thats your rifle.

I've never fired a DPMS rifle, but everything I have heard about them has been negative. Mossberg ARs, as has been mentioned are new, and have no track record. They might be decent, they might be junk.

faawrenchbndr
11-04-2012, 17:57
Windham Weaponry,........what used to be Bushmaster, when
they were worth a piss, could be a very good choice as well.

bmoore
11-04-2012, 18:16
If you have the funds there is really no need for an "entry level" AR. Build a basic BCM rifle or off the shelf it with a Colt or Daniel Defense. If you do not have the funds, the Sport seems to be the way to go. As I have told more than a few people here- take it from me, I was the guy who avoided buying what I really wanted to due to price and not getting advice. If you just buy what you want in the first place you will save money and have a quality rifle for your lifetime.

faawrenchbndr
11-04-2012, 18:35
Went down that road once or twice. Buy once, cry once!

LA_357SIG
11-04-2012, 19:45
Windham Weaponry sounds like they have come around to the current market trend. Del-Ton is also a good choice for an entry level AR if you aren't allergic to 4140 barrel steel, 1/9 twist and commercial receiver extensions.

LA_357SIG
11-04-2012, 19:49
I've never fired a DPMS rifle, but everything I have heard about them has been negative.

Hunters, competition shooters and a large percent of actual owners seem to report positive results. Apparently DPMS doesn't make AR's that can handle carbine classes...

WoodenPlank
11-04-2012, 20:35
Hunters, competition shooters and a large percent of actual owners seem to report positive results. Apparently DPMS doesn't make AR's that can handle carbine classes...

I've owned and used DPMS parts (but no complete uppers/lowers), and seen the crap quality first hand. Ive also helped other people on ranges with DPMS guns and uppers that didn't run right. To top it off, they often use inferior materials and/or processes in making their rifles.

When you can get a sport for the same or less, and the Sport is a much higher build quality, why the hell would anyone willingly buy a DPMS?

LA_357SIG
11-04-2012, 21:13
I've owned and used DPMS parts (but no complete uppers/lowers), and seen the crap quality first hand. Ive also helped other people on ranges with DPMS guns and uppers that didn't run right. To top it off, they often use inferior materials and/or processes in making their rifles.

When you can get a sport for the same or less, and the Sport is a much higher build quality, why the hell would anyone willingly buy a DPMS?

So that would include you in the small percentage of actual owners that report negative results then, right? What is your point?

ETA: I had a factory DPMS lower and installed 2 LPK's. The only failure I ever had with a DPMS part is after I let Bill Springfield tune a trigger and a broken hammer pin when using a .22lr upper, which happens with many other brands. You had a bad experience, I had a good experience. Like I said, what's your point?

mjkeat
11-04-2012, 22:50
Had a brand new DPMS go full auto as it fell apart.

WoodenPlank
11-04-2012, 23:04
Had a brand new DPMS go full auto as it fell apart.

But LA357 hasn't had any serious issues, so our complaints of function problems are obviously irrelevant.

rozz421
11-05-2012, 07:14
I just picked up a S&W orc for $750.

mjkeat
11-05-2012, 07:28
But LA357 hasn't had any serious issues, so our complaints of function problems are obviously irrelevant.

I'm a little like that myself when it comes to steel cased ammunition. I love to shoot but am balling on a budget. I had to give up buying all the cool add-ons when I started to get serious about shooting. $160-$200 saving per 1k on ammunition is the path I had to choose. The thing is I've only had 2 feeding issues w/ HP Tula and 2 problems w/ short stroking, ever. At a class recently I watched a guys Bushmaster getting worked over by some Wolf Military Classic. I've watched 3 others get stuck cases in the last month. Two were in DPMS ARs the other was in one of those KelTec 5.56 things. People say "I don't use that crap it'll damage my rifle" or "it doesn't work in my rifle" then look at me cross eyed when I tell them how much of it I shoot.

Maybe 357 has had a lot of luck w/ his DPMS. Maybe it's ability maches up perfectly w/ his. I think for the same money DPMS sells their rifles for you could get something much better. Like others have said some will never shoot enough to tell the difference. I wonder if those are the ones saying ____ works just fine or just as good?

fallenangelhim
11-05-2012, 08:15
In order to make an informed suggestion we would need to know your budget, and you dreams. Do you want a long range DMR? A plinker? A go to war rifle?


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mjkeat
11-05-2012, 08:27
Those questions were answered in the OP.

bmoore
11-05-2012, 08:46
OP- there is not much to building a stripped lower, many places have them for 99-129 dollars. You can usually get a stripped lower, Lower parts kit and stock kit for around 250-300 dollars. That opens you up to a lot of options for pinning on a complete upper.

Try to buy as much rifle as you can in the first place, the "starter rifle" thing is kinda goofy. Layout your budget and get the best quality rifle you can. If nothing else, a quality rifle will hold its value much better if you want to offload it to buy something different.

arushus
11-05-2012, 09:04
A colt 6920 would be my first recommendation, palmetto state armory has an EXCELLENT deal on a fully mil-spec m4 carbine for $699, it does not get any better than that. I highly recommend getting a mil-spec rifle if you want it to hold up to any serious shooting.

How come no one ever mentions Spike's Tactical? They make excellent fully mil-spec rifles, and IMO they are up there with bcm and dd. I've had one with their enhanced cold-hammer forged upper and nickel-boron coated bcg for about three or four months now(not exactly a long time, I know), and it has run like a sewing machine.
One day I wanted to put it through a "torture test" of my own. I just wanted to see if I could make it fail. I ran 300 rounds of steel-cased tulammo through it as fast as I could, I had 8 mags at the time, and my buddy was reloaded three of them while I shot so there wasnt any break for the rifle. It Never had one hiccup! I would have gone more, but I was out of tulammo, and I could barely hold the rifle anymore cuz it was too hot!
Sometime soon Im gonna buy 500 rounds of tulammo and try it again with someone else who knows how to shoot so we can take turns when one gets tired or hot. Ill let you know how it goes!

firefighter4215
11-05-2012, 20:29
Thanks for your replies. I may take the Windham Weaponry suggestion into consideration. I have a friend who is going to help me on the price (he's a dealer), so it would be an even better deal on the Windham. The M&P Sport is awful tempting, though. I understand the whole "buy once, cry once" theory. I'll just have to see how it all works out. I'd like to buy a Colt LE6920, but I don't know if that would ever happen. If the Windham or M&P Sport are supposed to be good, solid guns, that may be where I end up. 300 yard shots would be fun, but that's not the point of this rifle. I'm also not sure that I'd be able to build one on my own, so buying a factory rifle is going to be my best bet. Again, thanks for the replies.

JDennis
11-05-2012, 22:43
For budget ready to fire AR, go windham. I love my s&w but have their nicer one. The sports a great deal but prefer their 5r 1/8 barrel.

WoodenPlank
11-05-2012, 22:56
For budget ready to fire AR, go windham. I love my s&w but have their nicer one. The sports a great deal but prefer their 5r 1/8 barrel.

Not sure if the Sport uses 5r rifling, but it is definitely 1/8 twist rate.