Winchester Ranger RA556B: Supposed to look like this? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Warp
11-05-2012, 12:17
So, is the lead at the tip of the Ranger load (RA556B) supposed to be like this? I've had a lot of bad experiences with terrible QC, and inconsistency, with Ranger pistol ammo, but my understanding was the centerfire rifle ammo from Winchester/Ranger line was still good to go. I don't like how this is inconsistent and some appear lumpy/over flowing. There is a Gold Dot (24455) for comparison. Every single Gold Dot bullet looks exactly the same, and just like the one pictured.

I would think that they are all supposed to look like the one on the far left (or at least that every bullet would look the same). Those others...not exactly confidence inspiring.

I can't help but feel like sticking with the Gold Dots. Speer has never done me wrong, and who doesn't like Gold Dots?


http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121105_124943_zps61a3434e.jpg

cowboy1964
11-05-2012, 13:04
Yuck. JSPs are already known for building up lead on the feed ramp and causing problems. Those Rangers look like they would make the problem much, much, worse, and much more quickly.

Warp
11-05-2012, 13:36
Yuck. JSPs are already known for building up lead on the feed ramp and causing problems. Those Rangers look like they would make the problem much, much, worse, and much more quickly.

From what I have seen the lead doesn't build up for at least 200-300 rounds. I cannot even afford that many rounds of this, let alone that many for firing in on setting/without cleaning.

I have also seen that, supposedly, the more 'premium' loads don't lead the feed ramps as bad as some of the others.

Nonetheless, when I test these at the range this weekend I'll be inspecting the feed ramps closely.

SCmasterblaster
11-05-2012, 16:26
From soft-point bullets? This is the first time I have heard about this situation.

GlockPride
11-05-2012, 16:35
The two cases on the left don't even look the same height (shorter) as the ones on the right!

Good luck with that!

I Do HAVE Good Luck with the .40 ammo, though!

SCmasterblaster
11-05-2012, 16:38
The two cases on the left don't even look the same height (shorter) as the ones on the right!

Good luck with that!

I Do HAVE Good Luck with the .40 ammo, though!

My next handgun is a G22 :supergrin:

Warp
11-05-2012, 16:40
The two cases on the left don't even look the same height (shorter) as the ones on the right!


The two cases on the left are farther from the camera than the two cases on the right. Obvious optical illusion.

Look at the line on the box, and where the cartridge rims line up.

SCmasterblaster
11-05-2012, 16:44
And just what caliber are these rounds? :upeyes:

GlockPride
11-05-2012, 16:44
double tap

GlockPride
11-05-2012, 16:45
The two cases on the left are farther from the camera than the two cases on the right. Obvious optical illusion.

Look at the line on the box, and where the cartridge rims line up.

Warp, brother,I respect you, but it looks like a bigger difference than just the angle. I could be wrong though.
It IS hard to tell with just a single photo.

:tongueout:

Warp
11-05-2012, 16:48
Warp, brother,I respect you, but it looks like a bigger difference than just the angle. I could be wrong though.
It IS hard to tell with just a single photo.

:tongueout:

I'm anal enough I'll open the box back up and do a lineup later, and mic anything that is suspicous. :)

SCmasterblaster
11-05-2012, 16:50
These are 5.56mm cartridges.

cowboy1964
11-05-2012, 18:31
I also like the shape of the Gold Dot better. Just seems like a better feeding shape, if anything.

Warp
11-05-2012, 19:25
Warp, brother,I respect you, but it looks like a bigger difference than just the angle. I could be wrong though.
It IS hard to tell with just a single photo.

:tongueout:

I'm anal enough I'll open the box back up and do a lineup later, and mic anything that is suspicous. :)

Same box. :)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121105_195348_zps17ae97e3.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121105_124353_zpsa86be793.jpg

GlockPride
11-05-2012, 19:55
I guess it would help if I actually paid enough attention to know that you were the original poster. Wow! Can't believe I let that slip.

Send 'em over and I'll shoot them at the yotes.

Warp
11-05-2012, 19:58
I guess it would help if I actually paid enough attention to know that you were the original poster. Wow! Can't believe I let that slip.

Send 'em over and I'll shoot them at the yotes.

The rounds (bullet tip) may not look at neat and pretty, but I a told by somebody in another forum that that is just how they look and is normal.

The terminal performance of this round is exactly what I am looking for. Some function and POI testing this weekend and they'll get loaded up for HD/SD/SHTF

I also like the shape of the Gold Dot better. Just seems like a better feeding shape, if anything.

Agree.

Gold Dots always look beautifully crafted. I really, really like Gold Dots in every caliber I have acquired them for. 5.56, 9x19, .38spl +P and .45 ACP so far.

I've also had Ranger in all of those calibers.

PettyOfficer
11-05-2012, 21:06
It's official: next time I'm shopping for ammo, I'm not buying anymore Winchester HPs of any model. I'll still buy wwb for range.

That last photo has them all lined up but some bullets look to be set in deeper than others. As well, some copper jackets are larger than others too.

I've only heard of problems, I haven't had any yet, except for some crud in my RA45TP primers, but this lack of quality is apparent.

Warp
11-05-2012, 21:09
It's official: next time I'm shopping for ammo, I'm not buying anymore Winchester HPs of any model. I'll still buy wwb for range.

That last photo has them all lined up but some bullets look to be set in deeper than others. As well, some copper jackets are larger than others too.

I've only heard of problems, I haven't had any yet, except for some crud in my RA45TP primers, but this lack of quality is apparent.

My understanding is that the pistol ammo is what has gone down the crapper lately, but the centerfire rifle ammo is still up to snuff (the pistol ammo is where they moved manufacturing location and changed labor, but not rifle)

I am told by a poster on M4C (hoping to get other replies eventually) that it is normal and that's how they look, and I've seen enough different tests of the terminal performance that if that is how they normally look, I'm sticking with them, as the results are always excellent.

hotpig
11-06-2012, 10:44
Center fire rifle is still made here with skilled labor. Pistol ammo mostly is made by unskilled but some is still made here.

The bullets themselves may or may not be made here. The machinist here at the old plant are very busy because the unskilled labor at the new plant seem to be excelling at breaking things.

Some of the guys here think that it will still be a few years before all of center fire moves south. I think that there is a learning curve for the new guys. It will not last forever. If enough of the Union employees follow their jobs even for half pay and much less benefits it will help get the new plant running up to full production faster.

Warp
11-06-2012, 13:05
Well, I got some more feedback on the other board...it seems mine do look like ****. :sad:

Somebody even posted factory seconds of that bullet and they look 100x nicer than what I got.

****

hotpig
11-06-2012, 13:22
Well, I got some more feedback on the other board...it seems mine do look like ****. :sad:

Somebody even posted factory seconds of that bullet and they look 100x nicer than what I got.

****



It is my duty ammo also. I would guess the bad guy will not see how pretty or ugly the bullet is coming at them.:tongueout:

Warp
11-06-2012, 13:40
It is my duty ammo also. I would guess the bad guy will not see how pretty or ugly the bullet is coming at them.:tongueout:

I value your opinion, given your position and your experience with ammo.

Would you be comfortable and confident with the rounds I posted?

I contacted the seller of the ammo (tried you first, but you were out of stock, remember? :) ) and got the below reply. If you agree with him, I think I'll stick with it.


"If you are not happy with the ammo you can send it back for a refund for the cost of product returned. I'd be happy to buy it back. This looks pretty normal got this specific product, the bonded bullets come out a little funky looking and if you are not well experienced with the product it can be a surprise. Because the jacket is melted to the core in the bonding process and you get some lead splatter and slightly non-uniform projectiles, some look worse than others, this sort of bonding process improves weight retention and penetration but the ammo does not look as nice. This is not match ammo, it is for shooting bad guys multiple times at close range and hitting them as hard as possible, its not made for long range applications. Using gold-dot as a comparison is not really a fair comparison because they bond there bullets in a totally different process so it looks a little cleaner, but does not offer the same performance level as the RA556B or XM556FBIT3 (which looks even worse). All that said it looks normal for this product but if your not happy that's certainly an issue and I'll buy it back"

hotpig
11-06-2012, 14:54
I could care less what it looks like, its utilitarian. Function is more important.

The worst of the worst that I have seen looks ten times better than some of the Eastern Block SP ammo that I have been shooting for years.

Warp
11-06-2012, 15:06
I could care less what it looks like, its utilitarian. Function is more important.

The worst of the worst that I have seen looks ten times better than some of the Eastern Block SP ammo that I have been shooting for years.

As long as they are supposed to look like that and will perform as the rest of the RA556B/Q3313 out there, I'm more than happy with it.

But I can't test the terminal performance myself. I don't have anywhere to set stuff up, shoot, recover bullets, etc. :(

SCmasterblaster
11-07-2012, 10:59
I could care less what it looks like, its utilitarian. Function is more important.

The worst of the worst that I have seen looks ten times better than some of the Eastern Block SP ammo that I have been shooting for years.

Like Czech-made 5.56mm SPs?

hotpig
11-07-2012, 11:19
Also their 762x39.

Warp
11-07-2012, 12:23
So they are supposed to look like that?

hotpig
11-07-2012, 14:52
I do not know about supposed, but it is common.To me it looks sloppy even if it changes nothing in the function.

Looks like the run for ammo is on particularly 556 since its weapons are to be banned by Kings proclamation at any time.

Warp
11-07-2012, 15:12
I do not know about supposed, but it is common.To me it looks sloppy even if it changes nothing in the function.

Looks like the run for ammo is on particularly 556 since its weapons are to be banned by Kings proclamation at any time.

Thanks for the feedback.

I'll be testing (accuracy mostly) some of it this weekend, prone at 25 yards.

And I just paid $395 (shipped) for a case of Federal XM193. :faint:

SCmasterblaster
11-07-2012, 16:11
Exposed lead on rifle cartridges is quite soft and malleable. Those dents on the pictured cartridges were probable from normal handling. A drop to the hard floor or table could easily dent those bullet noses. Chambering could also cause the dents.

hotpig
11-07-2012, 23:07
Exposed lead on rifle cartridges is quite soft and malleable. Those dents on the pictured cartridges were probable from normal handling. A drop to the hard floor or table could easily dent those bullet noses. Chambering could also cause the dents.

A friend of mine made a chute from the loader to the bin that the loaded rounds fall in. This saves them from getting dented from free falling into the bin.

Some of the guys decided that the chute backed things up because they did not spread the ammo out in the bin. So they took them off.

Warp
11-08-2012, 12:34
Well, check this out. I tacked 2 boxes of ZQ3313 onto another order and they arrived today. These should be the exact same rounds as the RA556B, but are reclassified (or possibly overrun). I took 5 randoms of each, side by side.


http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121108_130318_zps196331f8.jpg

CanyonMan
11-08-2012, 14:20
As long as they are supposed to look like that and will perform as the rest of the RA556B/Q3313 out there, I'm more than happy with it.

But I can't test the terminal performance myself. I don't have anywhere to set stuff up, shoot, recover bullets, etc. :(


Warp. Just to encourage you amigo. I have had Winchester that Looked as bad as this, (if we're going to call it 'bad.') But it has always shot great and held plenty small enough groups not to concern me one bit. I agree with HotPig on this.

Of couurse I reload everything of mine, Mostly all (Hornady stuff) but I have 'seen and shot', WW stuff that did not look to uniform (like yours) or (great) but still shot well, and as I said, held good groups down range.


I would not get to worried about what your showing here. BUT the "anal" personality I "do understand," (ha) so I hear ya, but Go shoot them and put your mind at ease. ;)

Let's hope yours will shoot as accurately as those I have had 'a few times' over the years that looked just like these....


Good luck !








CanyonMan

arushus
11-08-2012, 14:47
I bought 200 rounds of this stuff from sgammo.com, actually it was zq3313 which Im told is the same. The way the lead was distributed on the ends bothered me too. You would think that with the lead like that it would be unbalanced and not stabilize well, like a tire that needs balanced...I havent tested mine out at 100 yards yet, I may tomorrow though, if I do Ill post my results...and Id appreciate it if you kept me posted of any results you get with it! Also, where are you getting your gold dot rounds?!?! And does anyone know where I can get any xm556fbit3, or

Warp
11-08-2012, 15:05
I bought 200 rounds of this stuff from sgammo.com, actually it was zq3313 which Im told is the same. The way the lead was distributed on the ends bothered me too. You would think that with the lead like that it would be unbalanced and not stabilize well, like a tire that needs balanced...I havent tested mine out at 100 yards yet, I may tomorrow though, if I do Ill post my results...and Id appreciate it if you kept me posted of any results you get with it! Also, where are you getting your gold dot rounds?!?! And does anyone know where I can get any xm556fbit3, or

I will be accuracy testing (small numbers, if all goes well) the RA556B and ZQ3313 at 25 yards this weekend. I'll update this thread with the results. :)

I got my 5.56x45, 55gr Gold Dots from Grant at G&R Tactical. They are no longer in stock, and there is no telling if they ever will be in stock again. They are not a regularly manufactured round/item anymore. However, SGAmmo has the .223 55gr Gold Dots in stock for $17/20

http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/20-rd-box-223-speer-gold-dot-le-55-grain-gdsp-soft-point-ammo-24446

Warp
11-11-2012, 20:33
I didn't make the time to test many rounds today. I fired three 5-shot groups of RA556B, one target of which I no longer have (it was as good as the other two though)

Shot prone, moderately quickly, at 25 yards.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121111_204132_zpsa4d6061a.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121111_204126_zps51fa33c4.jpg

I also tried 5 of the ZQ3313 (same round, but reclassified). I'm thinking this is reclassified for a good reason. That flyer, I am 99% positive, was the ammo, not me. And even without the flyer, two of these rounds still 'scored' lower than the RA556B.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121111_204144_zpsb8b70589.jpg

toshbar
11-12-2012, 21:27
210? :supergrin:

Warp
11-12-2012, 21:41
210? :supergrin:

Many, many times over. I'm an IIT2. :cool:

SCmasterblaster
11-15-2012, 16:14
I didn't make the time to test many rounds today. I fired three 5-shot groups of RA556B, one target of which I no longer have (it was as good as the other two though)

Shot prone, moderately quickly, at 25 yards.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121111_204132_zpsa4d6061a.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121111_204126_zps51fa33c4.jpg

I also tried 5 of the ZQ3313 (same round, but reclassified). I'm thinking this is reclassified for a good reason. That flyer, I am 99% positive, was the ammo, not me. And even without the flyer, two of these rounds still 'scored' lower than the RA556B.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121111_204144_zpsb8b70589.jpg

Nice rapid-fire groups

Warp
11-15-2012, 16:20
Nice rapid-fire groups

Rapid fire in this context (I actually used the phrase moderately quickly, as it could have been done much more rapidly) is one shot per breath, aka rifleman's cadence, which is typically one shot every 3 seconds for me.

SCmasterblaster
11-15-2012, 16:36
Rapid fire in this context (I actually used the phrase moderately quickly, as it could have been done much more rapidly) is one shot per breath, aka rifleman's cadence, which is typically one shot every 3 seconds for me.

the range to the targets?

Warp
11-15-2012, 16:49
I didn't make the time to test many rounds today. I fired three 5-shot groups of RA556B, one target of which I no longer have (it was as good as the other two though)

Shot prone, moderately quickly, at 25 yards.


That.

SCmasterblaster
11-15-2012, 16:57
That.

Thanks, I didn't see that. :cool: