Blue Dot vs Power Pistol: 180 gr FMJ [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Blue Dot vs Power Pistol: 180 gr FMJ


Kwesi
11-05-2012, 21:48
After reading some threads it seems that BD is preferred over PP with velocity and low pressure in mind. Can you explain why? My manuals state:

Modern Reloading 2nd: (Max Loads)
BD:
10.4 gr @ 1220 FPS
PP:
8.7 gr @ 1240

In my experience both powders are boomers, lots of flash but PP meters better. School me please.

LASTRESORT20
11-05-2012, 22:01
"In my experience both powders are boomers"

Yup...But I have always used Blue-Dot for the 10mm....works well in all aspects for me...

Kwesi
11-06-2012, 08:22
Aside from our favorites I'm hoping to hear from anyone that has actually compared these two.

OhioGlockMan
11-06-2012, 09:32
Here's my experience, from a 6 inch barrel, and always winchester WLP primer (in between a standard and mag primer, perfect for everything in 10mm) ...

180 grain slug moves 1300 FPS with 8.5 gr power pistol

180 grain slug moves 1300 FPS with 10.5 gr blue dot

180 grain slug moves 1385 FPS with 11 gr blue dot.

Observations, you can get higher velocity with max BOOK loads of blue dot, but the highest book load of power pistol I could ever find was 8.7 gr and it was listed as 34,000 PSI pressure. People on here have posted much higher charges of power pistol and get up around 1400 FPS with power pistol, so being that 8.7 gr is 34,000 PSI I think it has more potential. Use the higher charges of power pistol at your own risk thou. I personally use 8.5 gr with 180 grainers a lot and find its a very stout load and much more effecient then blue dot

Kwesi
11-06-2012, 10:33
Here's my experience, from a 6 inch barrel, and always winchester WLP primer (in between a standard and mag primer, perfect for everything in 10mm) ...

180 grain slug moves 1300 FPS with 8.5 gr power pistol

180 grain slug moves 1300 FPS with 10.5 gr blue dot

180 grain slug moves 1385 FPS with 11 gr blue dot.

Observations, you can get higher velocity with max BOOK loads of blue dot, but the highest book load of power pistol I could ever find was 8.7 gr and it was listed as 34,000 PSI pressure. People on here have posted much higher charges of power pistol and get up around 1400 FPS with power pistol, so being that 8.7 gr is 34,000 PSI I think it has more potential. Use the higher charges of power pistol at your own risk thou. I personally use 8.5 gr with 180 grainers a lot and find its a very stout load and much more effecient then blue dot

I also use Win LPP's. I chrono'd 8.6 grains of PP @ ave 1196 but out of my EAA Witness.

OhioGlockMan
11-06-2012, 10:51
Kwesi, I assume the EAA witness is a 4 or 5 inch barrel, for what its worth don't feel bad cuz I chronographed everything out of a long wolf 6 inch barrel and my observation is in 10mm, that 5-6 inch barrel bump makes for a HUGE bump in velocity, bout 100 FPS. 9.5 gr power pistol with a 155 grainer clocks 1500 FPS

Kwesi
11-06-2012, 12:14
Kwesi, I assume the EAA witness is a 4 or 5 inch barrel, for what its worth don't feel bad cuz I chronographed everything out of a long wolf 6 inch barrel and my observation is in 10mm, that 5-6 inch barrel bump makes for a HUGE bump in velocity, bout 100 FPS. 9.5 gr power pistol with a 155 grainer clocks 1500 FPS

She has a 4.75" barrel. I've shot some 135's from Double Tap that were about the same.

nickE10mm
11-06-2012, 13:22
I personally think Blue Dot will give you better performance from a longer barrel, however, PP might be better if you were hunting with a G29.

11.0gr BD is a sweet shooter, very accurate, too... Unfortunately I have no data for ya

_The_Shadow
11-06-2012, 13:42
I have tested both from my S&W1006 and Glock 29 using the Hornady 200XTP's and the Power Pistol does help provide slightly better velocity in the 3.78" G29 pistol. But 800x will exceed the power pistol but it requires hand weighing. These loads should be worked up to, so start lower. my guns are setup with extra power recoil systems.

200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1160 fps – 1228 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1090 fps – 1116 fps Tested 1076
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1060 fps – 1085 fps Tested Glock 29

200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1170 fps –1200 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1080 fps –1127 fps Tested Glock 29

Kwesi
11-07-2012, 14:42
I have tested both from my S&W1006 and Glock 29 using the Hornady 200XTP's and the Power Pistol does help provide slightly better velocity in the 3.78" G29 pistol. But 800x will exceed the power pistol but it requires hand weighing. These loads should be worked up to, so start lower. my guns are setup with extra power recoil systems.

200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1160 fps 1228 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1090 fps 1116 fps Tested 1076
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1060 fps 1085 fps Tested Glock 29

200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1170 fps 1200 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1080 fps 1127 fps Tested Glock 29


Shadow: would you say the accuracy of BD & PP are equal out of a 4.75" barrel?

_The_Shadow
11-07-2012, 15:47
They have been about the same with the 200 grain XTP's and some of my cast bullet as well.

Kwesi
11-07-2012, 18:33
They have been about the same with the 200 grain XTP's and some of my cast bullet as well.

Any experience with the 180 FMJ?

_The_Shadow
11-07-2012, 19:55
I haven't loaded many and not to the levels of the 200 XTP's. The 180grain HP's and FMJ's even more so are slightly shorter therefore pressures are usually less than that of the longer bullets.

MakeMineA10mm
11-08-2012, 11:17
Blue Dot is certainly popular, but I have moved completely away from it since the warnings about 357 Magnum loads. There are other, better powders available for the 10mm, IMO. Not dissin' anyone's use of BD; just giving another viewpoint.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

here2day
11-08-2012, 11:46
Blue Dot is certainly popular, but I have moved completely away from it since the warnings about 357 Magnum loads. There are other, better powders available for the 10mm, IMO. Not dissin' anyone's use of BD; just giving another viewpoint.

Would you care to share your opinion of what those better powders are?

OhioGlockMan
11-08-2012, 13:21
Personally I like power pistol better then blue dot. Much more efficient in terms of being able to produce the same velocity for a couple less grains of powder and I think its capable of producing loads as fast as blue dot no problem with the 180 grain range and less. 200 grain you may get a slight edge with blue dot cuz blue dot is a slower powder.

Yondering
11-08-2012, 20:52
Any experience with the 180 FMJ?

I can't say for FMJ, but with 180gr cast bullets, Blue Dot is good for 50-80 fps faster than Power Pistol before pressure signs show up, in my guns.

CanyonMan
11-08-2012, 23:15
I can't say for FMJ, but with 180gr cast bullets, Blue Dot is good for 50-80 fps faster than Power Pistol before pressure signs show up, in my guns.


Hey buddy, how ya been?

I agree that with the 180gr cast, and (for me) the 200gr Cast bullet as well, BD has always worked the best. 10.5grs 180gr, and 11.0grs 180gr, and 10.5grs 200gr...HC bullets in G20.




Stay safe !











CanyonMan

dm1906
11-10-2012, 00:11
Blue Dot is certainly popular, but I have moved completely away from it since the warnings about 357 Magnum loads. There are other, better powders available for the 10mm, IMO. Not dissin' anyone's use of BD; just giving another viewpoint.

Alliant's warning of using Blue Dot was specific to only 125 gr. jacketed bullets for .357M, and all .41M loads. Before the warning, I used Blue Dot almost exclusively for .41M loads, with great success for decades, not matched by any other powder available at the time. When I saw the warning, I dropped BD cold, for my .41M loads. I never had, or saw any indication of a problem, but it's apparent someone did. I moved on, easy enough. If Alliant/Hercules found an issue with any load or cartridge, I don't think they'd hesitate to pull it off the table. I use a lot of Blue Dot, second only to Unique (other caliber target loads, mostly). There are other good powders for 10mm, and I don't fault (most) handloaders for using them, but I think, in my informed opinion, Blue Dot is the, or one of the, most versatile, powerful and safe powders for this cartridge. Others may disagree, but that's the beauty of it all. Otherwise, we'd all be shooting the same thing. What fun is that?

MakeMineA10mm
11-11-2012, 12:06
Alliant's warning of using Blue Dot was specific to only 125 gr. jacketed bullets for .357M, and all .41M loads. Before the warning, I used Blue Dot almost exclusively for .41M loads, with great success for decades, not matched by any other powder available at the time. When I saw the warning, I dropped BD cold, for my .41M loads. I never had, or saw any indication of a problem, but it's apparent someone did. I moved on, easy enough. If Alliant/Hercules found an issue with any load or cartridge, I don't think they'd hesitate to pull it off the table. I use a lot of Blue Dot, second only to Unique (other caliber target loads, mostly). There are other good powders for 10mm, and I don't fault (most) handloaders for using them, but I think, in my informed opinion, Blue Dot is the, or one of the, most versatile, powerful and safe powders for this cartridge. Others may disagree, but that's the beauty of it all. Otherwise, we'd all be shooting the same thing. What fun is that?
Absolutely agree with you. I've loaded my fair share of Blue Dot, too, over the years, but when a powder has been around 40-50 years and suddenly those kind of warnings pop up, I get real conservative... The hallmark of a good powder when doing the kinds of experimental or developmental loading we're doing with the 10mm is predictability. Blue Dot has lost my confidence in this regard. If I had access to more sophisticated equipment, I might change my mind back in favor of it again, but as things are, for me, I've dropped it
Would you care to share your opinion of what those better powders are?

Sure here2day. My preferred powders for 10mm loads are:
AA#9 (best), VV N350 & 3N37 (expensive), Vectan SP2 (very hard to find in US), IMR 800x (difficult to work with), & HS-7 (discontinued).

Powders I have yet to work with, which should be ideal are: STEEL, VV 3N38, Ramshot Enforcer & True Blue.

I've long-wished Accurate would come out with "AA#8" but Western Powders owns both Ramshot and Accurate now, and since True Blue is supposed to be in-between AA7 & AA9, I don't think Western Powders will make an "AA8". I'll have to try True Blue sooner rather than later.

gofastman
11-11-2012, 12:28
and since True Blue is supposed to be in-between AA7 & AA9

Interesting...

Yondering
11-11-2012, 21:24
I've long-wished Accurate would come out with "AA#8" but Western Powders owns both Ramshot and Accurate now, and since True Blue is supposed to be in-between AA7 & AA9, I don't think Western Powders will make an "AA8". I'll have to try True Blue sooner rather than later.

Agree about AA8, it would be about perfect for the 10. I hadn't heard that about True Blue. According to the Western Powders burn rate chart though, True Blue is a little faster than AA5.

Hiya CM!:wavey:

MakeMineA10mm
11-11-2012, 23:30
Agree about AA8, it would be about perfect for the 10. I hadn't heard that about True Blue. According to the Western Powders burn rate chart though, True Blue is a little faster than AA5.

Hiya CM!:wavey:

Well, I had a nice detailed reply for you Yondering, but the iPad lost it, so in my frustration, I'll just point out that burn rate charts are not the be-all, end-all.

Yondering
11-12-2012, 23:41
If you have some data showing True Blue to be similar to an ideal AA8, I'd be interested in seeing it. I'm open to trying something new, but don't need yet another powder of similar burn rate to Unique and AA5; I have too many already.