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Brandon35
11-06-2012, 14:21
I posted this under general glocking and was recommended to do a thread here as it might get more attention. So here goes. Has anyone had any issues with any glock 9mm jamming up into the barrel hood? My reloads are classic looking 124gr. rn plated bullets. My reloads are probably jamming one out of every 70. I have been loading the cartridge's over all length to saami's maximum length listed (the bullet is not contacting riflings either). Would the overall length be the likely cause for the bullet nose diving upwards into the barrel hood? My powder charge is AA no.7 somewhere in the middle of hornady's powder charge listings for 9mm. Can't remember but prob around 6.2 grains (don't quote me on that though) of powder. Also it is a gen 4 fde G19, but I just bought it a couple of months ago new, so I am pretty sure it is not one of the gen 4's with the previous guide rod issue. I also prob need to mess with all the mags to make sure it's not mag related. But if anyone has any insight it would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance

Boxerglocker
11-06-2012, 15:06
I posted this under general glocking and was recommended to do a thread here as it might get more attention. So here goes. Has anyone had any issues with any glock 9mm jamming up into the barrel hood? My reloads are classic looking 124gr. rn plated bullets. My reloads are probably jamming one out of every 70. I have been loading the cartridge's over all length to saami's maximum length listed (the bullet is not contacting riflings either). Would the overall length be the likely cause for the bullet nose diving upwards into the barrel hood? My powder charge is AA no.7 somewhere in the middle of hornady's powder charge listings for 9mm. Can't remember but prob around 6.2 grains (don't quote me on that though) of powder. Also it is a gen 4 fde G19, but I just bought it a couple of months ago new, so I am pretty sure it is not one of the gen 4's with the previous guide rod issue. I also prob need to mess with all the mags to make sure it's not mag related. But if anyone has any insight it would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance


I load everything Glock at 1.135-1.150, never any feeding issues with RN bullets. MAX SAMMI is 1.169
Power factor does have a lot to do with it especially with the new Genn 4 guns. Post you exact load and where in the recommended powder weight range it is. I'll take a guess your at minimums or below.

countrygun
11-06-2012, 15:11
Just as a diagnostic tool, I would try some factory ammo but from experience that was what the first G-22 mag to go bad on me caused.

I very much doubt that there is much with ammo in spec that could cause that. About all that could cause it to jump UP to the hood would be drastically underlength, that is just a guess because I've never tried it.

Brandon35
11-06-2012, 17:17
I had also considered power factor. The load is in the middle of hornady's published loads. Approx 950 fps or so. Haven't actually chronographed it though. With a middle power load I would think that it would not have to do with the charge though would it? I figured it was prob kinda equivelant to cheap range ammo but wasn't sure if the gen 4 guide rod was just a little too stiff for them.

F106 Fan
11-06-2012, 17:37
As I said over on General Glocking, run some dummy rounds through the gun by manually cycling the slide. If they all feed properly, your loads are probably wimpy. If they don't feed properly, perhaps they really are too long. Or the bullet profile doesn't like running up the feed ramp. Or the magazine is trash. Sometimes the feed lips are hosed and sometimes the magazine spring is wimpy. Maybe the taper crimp die is leaving the case mouth too large and it is catching on something.

Since the round hasn't gotten anywhere near a chamber, there is probably no need to see if it would actually fit the chamber. Nevertheless, a case gauge is handy and you can always remove the barrel from the gun and use the chamber as a case gauge. Be aware, a round that fits the chamber may still be larger than would fit in a case gauge. You can probably chamber a bowling ball in a Glock barrel.

The bullets you are using have been used by others. The gun you are using has been used by others. Factory ammo probably works in your gun. That only leaves your particular load as a factor. OAL, taper crimp or powder charge. Everything else is the same for everybody else.

Richard

unclebob
11-06-2012, 18:06
I would not worry too much about it until you have at least 500rds. through the gun. But make sure the crimp is removed. And you can change your COL either longer or shorter. Does it happen with the same amount of rounds in the magazine? And is it the same magazine? You could be also limp wresting. I did not check out your load. You could be on the light side? You may also if you have not done so polish the feed ramp.

SARDG
11-06-2012, 20:32
You said you haven't used a chrono, but guesstimate the velocity at 950. IF by chance that's correct, you aren't even making close to minor PF. Glock likes NATO loads (of course they work with far less.... usually), but NATO is 124gr at 1185fps. I run 124s at 1052fps and they work fine. That's a PF of 130.4 which gives me a little headroom when a minor PF may be required.

Personally... I couldn't (or wouldn't) develop a load without a chrono, but I shoot competition and NEED to know the facts.

ETA: The longest I've loaded in a Glock is 1.138

rg1
11-06-2012, 21:00
I'd 1st reduce overall length to 1.150-1.160" and give them a try.

F106 Fan
11-06-2012, 21:14
Here again, we get into the "load about mid-range for jacketed rounds" nonsense with plated bullets.

Well, it depends a lot on whose data we accept.

Hornady says for AA No. 7: 6.2 gr (900 fps) to 7.9 gr (1150 fps). You need to make at least 1050 fps to get 130 power factor (pf) which is slightly above the minimum of 125 pf for 'minor'. In this case, Hornady shows 7.2 gr. OAL 1.150" for the FMJ-RN bullet. I would use this OAL for a RN bullet.

Speer #14 says 8.1 gr MIN (1077 fps) to 9.0 gr MAX (1180 fps). And this is where the chronograph comes in. One of these sources is WAY OFF!

Accurate pamplet says 6.4 gr (963 fps) to 7.4 gr (1090 fps) at 1.105" OAL. The Accurate data is for a Speer Gold Dot (JHP?) bullet. That's why the OAL is short!

Again, these three sources don't agree but the Accurate pamphlet is closer to Hornady.

I guess I would drop the Speer data and look at that 7.2 gr load. Hornady shows it just making 130 pf and Accurate says about the same thing. Maybe I would make a few (5 not 50) at each 0.1 gr interval from 6.7 gr to 7.2 gr. I would stop when the operation was reliable and the bullets patterned well.

Apparently you have Hornady so, if it's the 8th Edition, we are on the same page. You can download the Accurate Loading Manual here:

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf

Remember to keep your plated bullets below 1200 fps and stay around mid-range for jacketed loads. Check the bullet manufacturer's web site for loading recommendations.

DO NOT ACCEPT ON FAITH ANY NUMBER I TYPED ABOVE. I am an old man with failing eyesight and dubious typing skills. Seriously! Verify every single number before you load a single round. I gave you the sources.

And next time around, check out the prices for jacketed bullets at Precision Delta.

Richard

Steve Koski
11-06-2012, 21:29
Amp up your ammo.

Brandon35
11-06-2012, 22:25
Thanks f106 and everyone else who has responded. It's good to know how much load data can very. The bullets are plated and not jacket so I can't go too hot with my loads. I will try the suggestions. Thanks everyone

Brandon35
11-09-2012, 14:54
Hey hanks for everyones input. I Went l shooting today. Shot the rest of my aa no 7 with 124 gr plated bullets seated to saami maximum. The charge was 6.6 gr. Failures like expected. FTF and eject. Next tried same loads with bullets seated to 1.150. They fed well but had one fail to eject due to slightly low pressures. Although the deeper seated bullet was better for pressures it wasn't quite good enough. Tried same load except under 7.2 gr. seated at 1.150 also like recommended. All 50 rounds functioned flawlessly. Glock Perfection once again:cool: thanks everyone. Guess gen 4's don't do as well with lighter loads as gen 2 or 3's. My gen 2 never gave my these issues. Thanks again everyone.

SARDG
11-09-2012, 16:00
...Guess gen 4's don't do as well with lighter loads as gen 2 or 3's. My gen 2 never gave my these issues. Thanks again everyone.
I have a G26 and G17 Gen 4 and they work just as well as my Gen 3s with my bunny farts making ~130PF with a 147gr. No Gen 4 problems for me whatsoever.

WiskyT
11-09-2012, 17:12
I have a G26 and G17 Gen 4 and they work just as well as my Gen 3s with my bunny farts making ~130PF with a 147gr. No Gen 4 problems for me whatsoever.

I don't have any kind of technical data to back my experience up, other than it's been my experience. What I have found is that bunny fart loads with heavier bullets are more likely to function a semi-auto pistol than an equal PF load with a lighter bullet. Also, while you might consider 130PF to be bunny fart, Glock somewhere stated once up a time that they considered the minimum PF for reliable operation with their 9mm guns is 125. So, your 130PF loads work with heavier bullets and your presumably firm grip. The OP's load might have been lower than that, his bullets were lighter, and maybe he doesn't grip the gun as firmly as you do.

It's also possible that BF loads with fast powders might be more reliable than a BF load with a slower powder like AA7 at an equal PF but I have never played around with it personally to see.

DannyR
11-09-2012, 17:22
I may be old fashioned, but I break in every 9mm pistol with at least 200 rounds of 124-gr NATO spec ammo before switching to my light reloads. I use 147-gr jacketed bullets at 1.140 inches loaded to around 880 fps. They feed 100% in my Gen2, Gen3 and Gen4 Glocks.

Your rounds are too long, it's as simple as that.

SARDG
11-09-2012, 17:31
...I have found is that bunny fart loads with heavier bullets are more likely to function a semi-auto pistol than an equal PF load with a lighter bullet. Also, while you might consider 130PF to be bunny fart, Glock somewhere stated once up a time that they considered the minimum PF for reliable operation with their 9mm guns is 125...
Dunno. I do know that out of (both) of my 130PF loads using 124gr (at 1052fps) and 147gr (at 885fps), only the 124s will work in my Unlimited G34. The 147s have problems all day long in that gun.

The last I saw and heard, over the last several years (and particularly since the early Gen4s) - and especially if you call Customer Service with a problem - is that Glocks are made to run on NATO loads, and that's 124gr at 1185fps and amounts to ~147PF; more than halfway to major.

To paraphrase Glock's manual again, '...use ammunition loaded to NATO or SAAMI specs only'.

Brandon35
11-09-2012, 21:38
The issue is definitely not limp wristing. My loads assuming the manual was close says my loads were only 950 fps. Max seating depth was a factor too with my issues. I shot some of my fathers light loads (which felt even lighter and they functioned the slide great. Depth and charge were the only factors involved. Glad it is working now though. If I ever want to shoot really light loads I'll just buy a reduced recoil spring.

unclebob
11-09-2012, 22:07
Making light loads is a combination of type of powder, amount of powder and seating depth. Use the right combination and you can use the stock spring. Some of my loads are below suggested starting charge and using stock springs. But then also I only worry about the gun only holding and function with 11 rounds. I also donít worry about any PF.

SARDG
11-09-2012, 22:13
The issue is definitely not limp wristing. My loads assuming the manual was close says my loads were only 950 fps. Max seating depth was a factor too with my issues. I shot some of my fathers light loads (which felt even lighter and they functioned the slide great. Depth and charge were the only factors involved. Glad it is working now though. If I ever want to shoot really light loads I'll just buy a reduced recoil spring.
Without a chrono, it's all conjecture - but assuming you are running ~950fps with a 124gr bullet, you are already at a "really light load". Were your father's loads also running a 124 gr? With what powder? Your PF already seems out of the realm of stock Glock functionality.

IF you are not competing in a competition that requires a PF, and IF your Glock functions reliably, I suppose you're GTG. As a matter of fact, if your ammo isn't for competition or SD, reliability isn't even important (barring the frustration factor).

SARDG
11-09-2012, 22:26
Making light loads is a combination of type of powder, amount of powder and seating depth...
...and I'd add an appropriate choice of bullet weight for that powder and depth.

...Some of my loads are below suggested starting charge and using stock springs. But then also I only worry about the gun only holding and function with 11 rounds. I also donít worry about any PF.
A problem I've found in .45s (not so much 9mil) is that really light loads - functioning or not - can be less than accurate.

Brandon35
11-10-2012, 09:23
My fathers loads felt lighter but we don't know powder or charge. He loaded that ammo prob 15 years ago. Dirty and lots of flash like my aa no 7. If everyone is right, my current load which is now running as it should would make minor. All I really care though is proper function as I don't shoot competition. So what kind of velocity is required for major w a 124 gr bullet? Also will the factory barrels support those kinds of pressures? And before everyone just on my case about my dads loads being unknown and over 15 years old, he is thorough and I trust his loads even though he doesn't have the records anymore.

Brandon35
11-10-2012, 09:34
Also what does it take to run compensators reliably and so that it actually tames muzzle flip? My father has one on his 35 and 34. They are lwd barrel and comp and seem like they do nothing to tame it. Maybe his loads aren't hot enough? I'm curious for my 35 not my 19 so much.

unclebob
11-10-2012, 09:48
With a comp you cannot use light loads for it to work. You need pressure for it to work. You have to find a load that makes the comp work for you. But also not with over pressure that forces the barrel down. One of the reasons I quit using one. Plus the blast, dirtying the red dot. Pain to clean.

SARDG
11-10-2012, 10:23
My fathers loads felt lighter but we don't know powder or charge. He loaded that ammo prob 15 years ago. Dirty and lots of flash like my aa no 7. If everyone is right, my current load which is now running as it should would make minor. All I really care though is proper function as I don't shoot competition. So what kind of velocity is required for major w a 124 gr bullet? Also will the factory barrels support those kinds of pressures? And before everyone just on my case about my dads loads being unknown and over 15 years old, he is thorough and I trust his loads even though he doesn't have the records anymore.
Your data and evaluations seem largely like subjective guesstimates and certainly unrepeatable when it comes to your father's loads, but here is a fact - 'Minor' is a PF (bullet weight X velocity) of 125 (thousand); 'Major' is a PF of 165. I am more of an empirical data kind-of-gal.

No one would have said that your load is making Minor if it is in fact reaching only 950fps with a 124gr bullet. 950 X 124 = 117,800 PF - not the 125,000 PF needed to reach Minor. Again... if you don't shoot in a competition that requires a minimum PF (i.e.: IDPA or USPSA), your gun functions reliably, and your load is accurate, you are okay.

Many competitors shoot 9 Major - many others recommend against it. To reach 9 Major with a 124 gr bullet, just do the math; 165,000 / 124 = 1,331 fps (and you'd likely want to add some headroom to that. You cannot run a plated bullet at that velocity, 1200 fps apparently being the top end for plated. NATO loads are a hot load and are only 1185 fps with a 124gr for a <147 PF. I don't even know what +P and +P+ achieve, but I think +P has a SAAMI standard and +P+ does not.

SARDG
11-10-2012, 10:36
Also what does it take to run compensators reliably and so that it actually tames muzzle flip? My father has one on his 35 and 34. They are lwd barrel and comp and seem like they do nothing to tame it. Maybe his loads aren't hot enough? I'm curious for my 35 not my 19 so much.
See post numbers 16 and 23.

...and I don't have a starting load suggestion for a compensated G35.

F106 Fan
11-10-2012, 10:59
My fathers loads felt lighter but we don't know powder or charge. He loaded that ammo prob 15 years ago. Dirty and lots of flash like my aa no 7. If everyone is right, my current load which is now running as it should would make minor. All I really care though is proper function as I don't shoot competition. So what kind of velocity is required for major w a 124 gr bullet? Also will the factory barrels support those kinds of pressures? And before everyone just on my case about my dads loads being unknown and over 15 years old, he is thorough and I trust his loads even though he doesn't have the records anymore.

Different powders have a different feel. They just do...

I have never achieved the velocities given in load manuals. If I want to know what a load does, I use a chronograph. That's the only way to get the right answer.

But the answer doesn't matter. What matters is that your gun is cycling with the increased charge and that charge is within published guidelines.. You can try backing off a little until it fails. Then come back up a little.

The thing about the Gen 4s is that double recoil spring is a lot heavier (and was even heavier yet before they were replaced 3 or 4 times by Glock). It takes a stout 9mm load to operate the slide and get the brass to eject.

Making major is an advanced and highly debatable topic. In my view, it is nonsense. Other opinions vary. But it's a lot like the people who want to load fire breathing ammo for 10mm. OK by me - as long as you aren't shooting anywhere around me. I don't want to be picking gun parts out of important parts of my body.

Richard

SARDG
11-10-2012, 11:25
...The thing about the Gen 4s is that double recoil spring is a lot heavier (and was even heavier yet before they were replaced 3 or 4 times by Glock). It takes a stout 9mm load to operate the slide and get the brass to eject...

Richard
I will say that my two (perfectly functioning with BF loads) Gen 4s are fairly recent arrivals, ordered directly from Glock and likely have the latest RSAs and other parts like ejectors and extractors. But I don't know that; when they arrived, I didn't check the RSA number, I didn't check the test-fired date - I simply (and immediately) took them apart, put a (-) connector in them, and polished the trigger group - then took them out and shot my light reloads with no issues then or since.

BTF (brass to the face) likely wouldn't be much of a problem as the brass barely flies that far. Moot point, as it leaves the ejection port to the right and slightly rearward less than 2' away and in a nice pile (when I'm not moving, of course).

Maybe I'm lucky. I've found lately, that luck wins me more guns at GSSF matches than skill. :embarassed:

emtjr928
11-10-2012, 11:42
Maybe I'm lucky. I've found lately, that luck wins me more guns at GSSF matches than skill. :embarassed:

Tru Dat! :p

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sourdough44
11-10-2012, 14:05
Without reading all the replies, it sounds like you have a somewhat slower powder at a midlin charge level. That's what can happen. I personally go with a faster powder for the 9mm, unless you need to work up to max FPS.

onebigelf
11-10-2012, 14:53
Way light. Try 7.5gr at 1.142"

John

Brandon35
11-11-2012, 00:05
Hey thanks everyone. I appreciate the advice and tips.