Best glock slide release? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Best glock slide release?


Diesel McBadass
11-07-2012, 10:05
The stock one is damn near useless. Whats one that is big enough to use, looks cool and wont cause it to fail to lock back like a sig?

vmann
11-07-2012, 10:29
its called the slide stop lever, you could use the glock extended version, but be careful when using this on your ccw, it can cause issues with your holster depending on which one you use....

DannyR
11-07-2012, 10:32
The Glock slide stop lever is not designed to be a "slide release." Glock trainers instruct users to rack the slide back with one's weak hand--a gross motor skill--to release the slide.:wavey:

INEEDMILK
11-07-2012, 11:38
Get a Vickers TangoDown Slide-Stop.

http://www.nettac.com/Vickers-Tactical-Slide-Stop-for-Glock_p_118.html

Best aftermarket addition to any Glock.

brickboy240
11-07-2012, 11:44
Another vote for the Vickers unit.

Good stuff there...and pick up his mag release button as well...another winner.

Diesel McBadass
11-07-2012, 11:57
The Glock slide stop lever is not designed to be a "slide release." Glock trainers instruct users to rack the slide back with one's weak hand--a gross motor skill--to release the slide.:wavey:

I use this method. But, its a 2 handed method. I like options, ad if im injured a slide stop may be useful

ronin.45
11-07-2012, 12:09
I prefer the OEM extended release.

akpolaris
11-07-2012, 12:32
When I shop for these Extended slide release levers there is a note indicated if it is a 3 pin model. What does this 3 pin question indicate? Thanks

davsco
11-07-2012, 13:18
i have the glock oem (g34) extended slide release on all my glocks. i may go back to the original one on my mid-sized g23 and 32 (used for ccw) as i find myself resting my right thumb on it so the slide isn't locking back upon a mag becoming empty. i don't have this issue with the full-size glocks.

JDennis
11-07-2012, 13:41
I use the oem ones as well. Never had a issue with them

Tango 1Zero
11-07-2012, 13:51
OEM never use it to drop the slide.

davsco
11-07-2012, 14:34
OEM never use it to drop the slide.

why not?

i slingshot it to chamber a round, but always use the slide release after any mag changes.

dusty_dragon
11-07-2012, 16:05
I prefer the OEM extended release over all others.
i slingshot whenever the 2nd hand is available, but when training with a "wounded" 2nd hand etc. i like the option the OEM extended slide stop lever provides for me.

i saw lot of aftermarket extended slide stop levers which scatches the plastic of the frame whenpushed down, the OEM extended ones never do this, for me they are the top ones!

Leigh
11-07-2012, 16:16
I use this method. But, its a 2 handed method. I like options, ad if im injured a slide stop may be useful

As a Lefty, the factory extended helps when clearing for a safety check or prior to cleaning.

If injured, I will use my belt, the heel of my boot, or a door frame.

kodiakpb
11-07-2012, 16:20
I prefer the Vickers over OEM and OEM extended. It's very similar to the M&P's SSL.

SCmasterblaster
11-07-2012, 16:45
I like the stock slide stop as it is. Readily accessible, but hard to accidentally engage.

USMC03Grunt
11-07-2012, 17:06
The Glock slide stop lever is not designed to be a "slide release." Glock trainers instruct users to rack the slide back with one's weak hand--a gross motor skill--to release the slide.:wavey:

I hear that all the time and when it comes to a stock Glock slide release lever, I'd agree with it since it's so small. However, I do not agree with the whole "gross motor skill" angle. It was was I was originally trained to do with a 1911 and then later an M9 and I have no problem with doing it. I just fail to see how a shooter when under stress will crap the bed trying to use a slide release but still retain the fine motor skills to release the empty magazine in the first place. I figure if you can manage to release the magazine, you can release a slide.

tango44
11-07-2012, 17:13
The stock one!
Glock shoot stock!

dusty_dragon
11-07-2012, 17:17
with the stock one i find it extremely hard to push it down, especially with the index finger of the left hand, when i do weak hand drills.

so i prefer the OEM extended one, because i don't have large hands and no long fingers.

also for the strong hand the OEM extended one does the job better than the OEM stock one and i never had any issue with the slide lock lever accidentilly catching the slide

Tango 1Zero
11-07-2012, 17:22
why not?

i slingshot it to chamber a round, but always use the slide release after any mag changes.

I just never use it. I always use the slide.

JBP55
11-07-2012, 17:47
I use this method. But, its a 2 handed method. I like options, ad if im injured a slide stop may be useful

They are many ways to rack the slide and reload a Glock as well with one hand whether it is your dominant or non dominant hand. :cool:

SCmasterblaster
11-07-2012, 18:11
I just never use it. I always use the slide.

I have seen this technique in a lot of videos, and the first thing I think is why do they make the slide release a two-handed operation?

RWBlue
11-07-2012, 18:46
The Glock slide stop lever is not designed to be a "slide release." Glock trainers instruct users to rack the slide back with one's weak hand--a gross motor skill--to release the slide.:wavey:

IMHO, this IS the best way. And it works on everything from 1911s to XDs and everything inbetween.

SCmasterblaster
11-07-2012, 18:48
IMHO, this IS the best way. And it works on everything from 1911s to XDs and everything inbetween.

It IS the sure fire way to drop the slide.

kashdaddy
11-08-2012, 03:45
I prefer the OEM extended.

ChicagoZman
11-08-2012, 06:16
My only Glocks with an extended slide stop lever are my long slides and I never use them to release the slide. I should probably replace them with standard slide stop levers but never thought about it before as they're otherwise all stock.

JonInWA
11-08-2012, 06:44
The Glock slide stop lever is not designed to be a "slide release." Glock trainers instruct users to rack the slide back with one's weak hand--a gross motor skill--to release the slide.:wavey:

Sorry, Danny-you're absolutely incorrect in your analysis of motor skills-ALL the activities asociated with firing a gun are in fact FINE motor skills...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_skill

The previous analysis by USMC03Grust is absolutely correct; this discussion has been pretty much beaten to death on other forums as well.

Using the slide stop/release is the quickest way to get the slide from slidelock back into battery, and using an extended slidestop (i.e., Glock's as OEM on the G34/G35 or the Vickers unit from Tango Down) are some of the best.

I look at the varying methods of getting a slide from slidelock back into battery as tools in the toolbox, using the best technique as situationally/positionally applicable. "The best" can also vary/be determined by one's specific gun and hand size. While the overhand or similar technique may be more universally applicable, I'm not really sure of the practical relavence of that is-it's highly unlikely, for example, that I'm going to be, or need to be switching from one gun type to another in a gunfight, or competition.

I suggest mastering both techniques, and then having them at your disposal to use as applicable to best get the gun back into the fight (or game).

Best, Jon

English
11-08-2012, 08:09
As a Lefty, the factory extended helps when clearing for a safety check or prior to cleaning.

If injured, I will use my belt, the heel of my boot, or a door frame.

If I understand you, you do not use the slide stop at all for dropping the slide on a fresh magazine. If you use one of the methods in your second paragraph, how much extra time do you think it will take with each method compared to just using the slide stop as a slide release? How many times do you estimate you will be shot in the extra time of each of those methods? How do you do any of them if you need to run at the same time as dropping the slide? When not injured, how much extra time do you think you take by using an overhand or slingshot method to drop the slide relative to using the slide stop? How many extra hits might you take in that time?

English

English
11-08-2012, 08:12
I have seen this technique in a lot of videos, and the first thing I think is why do they make the slide release a two-handed operation?

It is a consequence of a misunderstanding of fine and gross motor control.

English

English
11-08-2012, 08:19
IMHO, this IS the best way. And it works on everything from 1911s to XDs and everything inbetween.

I don't know whether you are talking about the slingshot or overhand method here. Slingshot works on everything. Overhand defininetly does not. It is at its best with service size pistols with slides that overlap the frame, like Glocks and 1911s. It is weak with slides which are overlaped by the frame and so have a reduced depth of grasp on the slide, such as Stey MiAs and CZs. It is almost useless on mouse guns and completely useless with Lugers, but they are a one off.

English

F106 Fan
11-08-2012, 08:21
A gun in slide lock is not even a decent hammer. Why would anyone EVER shoot to slide lock?

I see a lot of training where people are taught to reload in slide lock. 'Over the top', 'slingshot', 'slide release' - all of these are taught because we can't teach people to count!

Running a gun to slide lock is a mistake!

Richard

PVolk
11-08-2012, 08:29
The Glock slide stop lever is not designed to be a "slide release." Glock trainers instruct users to rack the slide back with one's weak hand--a gross motor skill--to release the slide.:wavey:
OEM never use it to drop the slide.
Is there a single drawback, downside, or otherwise negative consequence to use the slide stop to release the slide?

b_oglethorpe
11-08-2012, 08:32
It is not for slide release. Rack the firearm with your weak hand. I learned to shoot on a firearm with no slide release at all. I always wondered why my Dad did things like that. Now I know, he was teaching muscle memory.

How do I teach my wife the same lesson? Time to break out the ppk again.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

MikeG36
11-08-2012, 09:29
The Glock slide stop lever is not designed to be a "slide release." Glock trainers instruct users to rack the slide back with one's weak hand--a gross motor skill--to release the slide.:wavey:

Danny’s right. Glock and most other combat trainers - train students not to rely on the slide stop lever to release the slide but instead to use the overhand method. Why train students to perform the overhand method when the slide stop lever works perfectly well and is probably faster? Because the overhand method is part of a larger procedure; clearing malfunctions. Tap Rack Bang is a perfect example. For those who may not know what that is, this Clint Smith video demonstrates the procedure.
http://youtu.be/oJaQvV6q-D8

English
11-08-2012, 09:58
To expand on JonInWA's post above (post 27), a fine motor skill is typified by writing by hand where continued fine accuracy is needed, but something like typing is also a fine motor skill though the type of accuracy is very different. Banging your hand on the table is a gross motor skill since it needs little accuracy. That uses relatively large muscles, but if your hand was on the table and you raised it from the wrist while keeping the base of the hand on the table and then snapped the fingers down forcefully it would not make much noise and uses relatively small muscles but is a gross motor activity because it requires no accuracy.

Part of the measure of accuracy is the speed of the action. The faster the action the greater the accuracy needed to achieve a particular result. So a good pistol shooter might keep all his shots in a hand sized group at 25 meters when firig six shots in 6 seconds. The same shooter might keep all his shots in 2.5 inches when he can fire in his own time. We might consider both to be equally accurate in terms of skill level.

The overhand racking method has a combination of fine and gross motor skills. The fine component is the grasp of the slide and the gross component is the racking action, but even there, there is a fine motor component because the slide must be released without dragging it as it flies forwards. Why is the grasp a fine motor skill? First, the two hands, bouncing around from the shoulders, must meet quite precisely with the grasping hand closely positioned along the slide and above it. That is, it must not be too far forward or too far back, but the grasp must not overlap the frame or slide off the top of the slide. The longer the lever over which an action is performed, the more difficult it becomes and the finer the muscle control that is needed. Try handwriting from the shoulder only with no movement of the fingers or wrists! That isn't quite fair because you have had thousand of hours practice with your normal method but I hope you understand the principle! Once you have a sound grasp, the movement to rack the slide is quite crude. The slide can only move in one way and if you pull at an angle it will still move in that one way, So that part of the movement is a gross motor activity. If you put some kind of friction tape on the top of the slide that allows you simply to slap the slide backwards without grasping it, it seems as though it becomes more of a gross motor activity since the accurate finger grasp is not used, but even that is not so because the hands now need to meet precisely at speed and that ups the accuracy component to fine motor control.

Now consider the various things we control in the action of shooting a pistol before we need to replace the magazine. We align the sights. For this we need fine motor control of the wrist and the arm from the shoulder, and anyone who shoot pistols knows how much the pistol bounces around at the end of the arm. We pull the trigger and try to do so without disturbing the aim. This is interesting because the aim is always disturbing itself, but what we mean is that if we pull the trigger badly we introduce even more abrupt changes to the aim without time to readjust it. This is another extremely fine motor control activity. We release the magazine. If we use the normal thumb release button positioned near the trigger guard this is only of moderate control difficulty. Provided you are fortunate to have a thumb that reaches the button without changing your grip it is a movement which you must control in two dimensions before applying pressure in a third. That sounds relatively difficult when put like that but we all find it easy because the thumb is a short lever with its base fixed relative to the button. We take out a magazine from a magazine pouch (say). This is quite difficult as it requires fairly precisely positioning of the hand at the end of its lever from the shouder. We then have to grasp it in the right way for our method and move it to meet the well of the pistol. This is a lot harder. The two hands have to meet quite precisely but each also has to be angled quite precisely to align the magazine with the well so theat the magazine will slide in and so that fingers and thumbs will not collide with each other. Then as we push the magazine into the well we have to change our grip so that we can push it all the way home. If Einstein had had problems like this there would have been no theory of general relativity! This is difficult control stuff if it is to be done quickly. Finally, we release the slide with the slide stop. This is the easiest thing on the above list. It uses the short lever of the thumb from a fixed position relative to the slide stop lever. The thumb moves only up and down (provided it fits the position of the slide stop). It does not need to be moved with accuracy because anywhere above the slide stop "knob" is good enough. It then moves down under the guidance of the side of the slide until it hits the slide stop knob. To do this quickly you need to press inwards with enough force to prevent the thumb sliding over the knob without releasing the slide so that increases the difficulty a little, but this is either the easiest control action you perform in shooting a pistol or it ties with releasing the magazine.

The amount of stress or adrenaline level you are under as you do this is irelevant. If you can't release the slide with the slide stop, you can't rack the slide. You can't fire a moderately acurate shot.

The conclusion to all this is that the slide stop should be the standard method of releasing the slide because it is faster. The only time that you need to rack the slide manually is when loading with a closed slide or when clearing a jam. Glocks hardly ever used to jam but now the manufacturers are helping us to get more practice in that and so it is worth practicing racking the slide from time to time and to practice clearing jams.

And to return to the OP, by all means get an extended slide stop and use it as a slide release.

Are there problems to this. Of course there are. If your hands are slippery with blood, sweat, rain or oil, you will have to take extra care but the same things cause the same problem with racking the slide unless to put grit covered tape on the racking area. If you practice a huge amount and get very fast, you can mistime it and release the slide before the magazine is all the way home. Then you get a click and no bang. But if you get really fast with a racking method, your hand can miss it grasp, or let go of the slide a little to soon with a poor grip, or let the slide drag by releasing a little too slowly. For someone who is really fast the slide rack method might fail a little less often - like once in a thousand versus once in two thousand - but the time saved by using the slide stop will have saved your life so many times by then that it doesn't matter. If your thumb does not reach the slide release it becomes more difficult because you have to change your grip or use your support hand. The small advantage to using the support hand is that you can't then over run your timing and release the slide before the magazine is in place.

English

English
11-08-2012, 10:28
Is there a single drawback, downside, or otherwise negative consequence to use the slide stop to release the slide?

See my post above, but there are at least two. First, the lever might wear and fail to hold the slide open on the empty magazine.This is enormously more likely to occur in practice than in a gunfight and it would then cost a few dollars and a few minutes to fix it.

The second is that you get less practice in racking the slide. The fact that its advocates say this is important shows that it is not as easy as they say! With less practice in racking the slide it will be harder to do clearance drills. I can't deny that but there are several reason why it is not a particularly valid argument. With a good quality modern pistol and good quality ammunition you should hardly ever get a jam. If you hardly ever get a jam in practice you will be something like a thousand times less likely to get one in a fight. If your pistol jams more than that you should get it fixed or buy another or change your ammunition for a reliable one. If you can't do that then practice clearance drills and practice the moves when you rack the slide instead of using the slide stop.

For what it is worth, you will get plenty of practice racking the slide with normal starting and showing clear actions on a range. On one occasion with someone at my shoulder with a stop watch on a timed competition I had a misfire and cleared it without stopping to think. He asked, "Did you have a misfire?" as though he couldn't quite believe his eyes.

Given a reliable pistol and reliable ammunition, it is virtually a waste of time for a civillian carrying for self defence to practice clearance drills because the time spent on them could be spent on something which is more likely to save his life, such as point shooting practice. Clearance drills are a definite skill and one that most do not have, so instructors look good when they demonstrate it but it is a waste of the student's time and money.

I don't think there are any other apparent or real disadvantages.

English

Arc Angel
11-08-2012, 13:38
The stock one is damn near useless. Whats one that is big enough to use, looks cool and wont cause it to fail to lock back like a sig?

:headscratch: Why is it useless?

You know, for a guy like me who almost never leaves anything stock, I much prefer Glock's stardard slide stop to any of the other extended or aftermarket stops I've tried. I've got large hands; and my thumbs can, sometimes, get in the way.

I'm willing to change just about anything on a Glock; but I've learned to leave the slide stops alone. With me it's always H.O.T., anyway. I, also, tend to rack the slide from the front rather than from the rear. (This way I get better, 'purchase' on the slide with my slightly arthritic fingers.)

Everything said and done I really do think it all comes down to training. Whenever you can do something flawlessly and without really thinking about it, THEN you're doing it right.

SCSU74
11-08-2012, 13:41
The stock one is damn near useless. Whats one that is big enough to use, looks cool and wont cause it to fail to lock back like a sig?

It works fine to lock the slide back, it's intended design. I'm assuming you're using it on reloads? Try grabbing over the top of slide and sling shotting it. Much easier than trying to hit a little slide stop. Gross motor > fine motor


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

SCSU74
11-08-2012, 13:44
A gun in slide lock is not even a decent hammer. Why would anyone EVER shoot to slide lock?

I see a lot of training where people are taught to reload in slide lock. 'Over the top', 'slingshot', 'slide release' - all of these are taught because we can't teach people to count!

Running a gun to slide lock is a mistake!

Richard

Wow that's the first I've ever heard of "counting" rounds. Sounds like solid advice if in a gunfight.... Or not


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Leigh
11-08-2012, 14:01
If I understand you, you do not use the slide stop at all for dropping the slide on a fresh magazine. If you use one of the methods in your second paragraph, how much extra time do you think it will take with each method compared to just using the slide stop as a slide release? How many times do you estimate you will be shot in the extra time of each of those methods? How do you do any of them if you need to run at the same time as dropping the slide? When not injured, how much extra time do you think you take by using an overhand or slingshot method to drop the slide relative to using the slide stop? How many extra hits might you take in that time?

English

Sling-shot the slide as taught by some pretty fast pistoleers at TDI.

As for my comments regarding belt, boot, and door frame, that was a misquote on my part.

I meant to emphasize that those methods are used to chamber a round (if slide is forward) or attempt to clear a malfunction if only one arm/hand is available.

PVolk
11-08-2012, 14:09
See my post above, but there are at least two. First, the lever might wear and fail to hold the slide open on the empty magazine.This is enormously more likely to occur in practice than in a gunfight and it would then cost a few dollars and a few minutes to fix it.
Has there ever been a single report of a failed slide stop due to excessive wear? I have to imagine that as long as the stop hasn't been purposely modified and as long as the magazine spring is pushing it up, it's going to catch the slide.

I can't even fathom how wearing out could happen. I use the slide stop to release the slide and after 4 years, it has no more wear than a tiny amount of the black finish. I'd venture to say that the next 10 or 20 years will be no different.

I'm all for either method though. I just don't understand why anyone could say one method is proper and the other is a no-no. Using the slide stop is without a doubt faster too, which is my primary reason for using it. I also feel it a good idea for everyone to practice manipulating your pistol with one hand. I practice one handed shooting, mag changes, slide releases, and single handed racking from battery. You never know when that might be a life saving ability.

dhgeyer
11-08-2012, 14:17
Danny’s right. Glock and most other combat trainers - train students not to rely on the slide stop lever to release the slide but instead to use the overhand method. Why train students to perform the overhand method when the slide stop lever works perfectly well and is probably faster? Because the overhand method is part of a larger procedure; clearing malfunctions. Tap Rack Bang is a perfect example. For those who may not know what that is, this Clint Smith video demonstrates the procedure.
http://youtu.be/oJaQvV6q-D8

Thanks for that video link. That is an excellent presentation.

As for slide stop lever as opposed to overhand or slingshot: it almost sounds like a religious debate! I do both. I think it's good to be able to do both. I don't find the stock slide stop levers on my G19 or G17 hard to use, but I have big hands and long fingers.

Leigh
11-08-2012, 14:33
[QUOTE=PVolk;19609091]Has there ever been a single report of a failed slide stop due to excessive wear?

Yep, right here.

First off, it was by young gunowner stupidity BUT it happens.

Rewind to the mid 1980's (before any G26/27), I bought a brand new Beretta 84F (Italian-made) and for some stupid reason, I would always drop the slide on an empty chamber (duh).

After about a year or so, the metal at the top of the slide stop/slide release was worn to the point that it would not always engage with the scallop/groove on the bottom of the slide and hold it to the rear.

far from a design flaw, this .380 had an excellent fit and finish so it does indeed happen, sometimes.

Arc Angel
11-08-2012, 14:52
You should slingshot the slide on smaller frame pistols; and go hand-over-top (HOT) on larger pistol slides. This way neither size frame will too easily get away from you when you really don't want, or need it to. ;)

The most common complaint about Glock slide stops comes from the spring breaking.

PVolk
11-08-2012, 15:13
Yep, right here.

First off, it was by young gunowner stupidity BUT it happens.

Rewind to the mid 1980's (before any G26/27), I bought a brand new Beretta 84F (Italian-made) and for some stupid reason, I would always drop the slide on an empty chamber (duh).

After about a year or so, the metal at the top of the slide stop/slide release was worn to the point that it would not always engage with the scallop/groove on the bottom of the slide and hold it to the rear.

far from a design flaw, this .380 had an excellent fit and finish so it does indeed happen, sometimes.
I was primarily referring to Glocks specifically, though I didn't make that clear in my post. Assuming the slide catch on the 84F is the same (or similar enough) as the Glock, I don't understand how any amount of wear on the top would affect how it catches being that it only catches on the back edge.