Colorado, Oregon and Washington State [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Colorado, Oregon and Washington State


GRIMLET
11-07-2012, 14:09
These states voted to allow recreational use of marijuana.

The finer points of the law aren't ironed out yet so a little ambiguity is in play.

Without putting personal preferences or moral viewpoints into it, how will this affect your patrol? Are you for it or against it?








Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Cochese
11-07-2012, 14:14
I don't care. I have other things to worry about at work, so being able to punt the BS "drugs" calls when someone sees someone parked somewhere or the odor of MJ calls we get... fine by me.

I won't be lining up to buy it after work either. Whatever.

GRIMLET
11-07-2012, 14:29
Thats what I was thinking also. For municipal police, it would seem to free up patrol time.

In another aspect I am interested to see if the illegal weed dealers stay in business or switch to other drugs. What kind of new turf wars for the new meth/crack dealers invading corners of the current hard drug dealers.

I am also interested in the amount of tax revenue which may stem layoffs and possibly increase equipment budgets.

Yes, I said stem. Hahahahah

Morris
11-07-2012, 14:48
What I posted to a similar thread in GNG:

The not-so secret was that a majority of LE in Washington actually supported I-502 (Marijuana legalization) because it brought the industry under tighter controls, while hopefully gaining additional revenue for the state and establishing some base line for impairment when operating a vehicle.

In fact, much of those who opposed 502 were "co-op" growers who feared that their ability to deal would be curtailed by tighter controls. In reality, pre-502 was looser and somewhat more Libertarian in orientation, even if possession was more controlled for non green card holders.

So while legalized, it also is more tightly controlled by the state. It blows Libertarian minds.

Washington already had something of a defacto legalization in place with medical marijuana. Anyone could go to a "doctor," get a note for bad acne or something stupid, present it to a "provider" and get monthly allotments. One person I know has his "green card" gets a pound a month for a bad back. Amazing how many 18 & 19 y/os had "debilitating pain" which got them their authorizations.

series1811
11-07-2012, 14:50
Thats what I was thinking also. For municipal police, it would seem to free up patrol time.

In another aspect I am interested to see if the illegal weed dealers stay in business or switch to other drugs. What kind of new turf wars for the new meth/crack dealers invading corners of the current hard drug dealers.

I am also interested in the amount of tax revenue which may stem layoffs and possibly increase equipment budgets.

Yes, I said stem. Hahahahah

I wouldn't be spending that tax money, yet. Most weed dealers aren't that diligent about following tax laws already in place. I doubt they are going to be following any new ones.

GRIMLET
11-07-2012, 15:08
I cant see the average dealer getting going into a legit business. I can see the already existing med m j places expanding their sales base.

It will definitely by the finer points of the law concerning possession amounts, sales, cultivation and importation that may be interesting.

Vigilant
11-07-2012, 15:13
Just the mere smell of that crap pisses me off, and I won't associate with people who smoke it, whether it is legal or not. Even so, the opinions posted here make sense. I would add one more thing: PISS on the bootleg growers. Let the State grow it, regulate it, and sell it if it's going to be legal.

Vigilant
11-07-2012, 15:13
Buck Farack.

GRIMLET
11-07-2012, 15:17
Just the mere smell of that crap pisses me off, and I won't associate with people who smoke it, whether it is legal or not. Even so, the opinions posted here make sense. I would add one more thing: PISS on the bootleg growers. Let the State grow it, regulate it, and sell it if it's going to be legal.

Thats my thinking too.
I can see how the courts and jails may see relief also.

COLOSHOOTR
11-07-2012, 15:25
I'm 100% against it for several reasons.....

1: The stoners all like to claim it's going to reduce crime.

That's what they said when the medical marijuana stuff passed but we've seen an increase in violent crime related to medical pot. The turd who shot and killed our Officer earlier this year had his medical pot card and would buy it using his card legally then was selling it on the street. Robberies related to medical Marijuana are through the roof.

2: Tax money....

The medical Marijuana was supposed to generate revenue but since it's been passed the city still claims to be flat broke and has not hired our bought us new equipment since 2008. The pot shops are a cashbusiness as banks won't do business with the shops and I'm sure sales are very under reported.

3: Street sales are supposed to be a thing of the past according to the bill supporters.

LMAO right.... The bill allows for use by anyone 21 and up. The 16-21 age group are the prime users. People will still be selling it to them!

4. Cartels.

Colorado is already a central hub for the drug trade. Drugs including weed from Mexico go though here on the way though to the rest of the country. Money comes back though on it's way to Mexico. If large wholesale grow operations are allowed what's to stop cartels from getting in on the action and operating legal grows that then turn and distribute the Marijuana around the rest of the country. It would take away the need to try to smuggle as much across the border and could increase profits so you can bet they are already considering it. If that happens more violence could be brought with the cartel members who are sent to run things here.

I could go on and on covering more violence and injuries due to driving while high but I think everyone gets the point. I think this is a bad thing and I hope the feds step in to stop it.

On the other hand it won't be changing much in the way of day to day operations for us. With pretty much anyone able to get medical pot card we don't really worry about Marijuana unless it's very large quantities.

GRIMLET
11-07-2012, 15:42
From your points it would seem legalization may help some of the problems with violence as no illegal means of acquisition are needed. It would also seem to allow more time for patrol and narcotics to work on the cartels. May I suggest contacting your
AG with recommendations on regulations and penalties for illegal dealers and those who may supply kids.
I am very sorry for your coworker who was killed. Im not sure how a card in his pocket made a difference.
I can see how robberies are a real concern for all, especially responding officers. It is difficult to single out one type of legal business due to robberies.
After all, banks can be dangerous too.

It is really important for LE to get involved with the regulations. Again, please contact or encourage your local PBA or FOP to get in early on structuring the new laws regarding this.

DaBigBR
11-07-2012, 15:59
I think it will actually encourage the illegal trade. The fact that there will be a way to possess it legally, will discourage law enforcement from using any more time than they already do related to these calls. When the quesiton will be whether or not the weed possessed has had the requisite taxes paid, LE just will not care enough to bother with it.

RyanNREMTP
11-07-2012, 16:09
It will be the same as alcohol. Nothing different. Impaired drivers. Those that can't have it will find some way to get it. Then the people nearby getting high off the fumes and being a danger.

Sent from my Federation issued communicator.

GRIMLET
11-07-2012, 16:35
I think it will actually encourage the illegal trade. The fact that there will be a way to possess it legally, will discourage law enforcement from using any more time than they already do related to these calls. When the quesiton will be whether or not the weed possessed has had the requisite taxes paid, LE just will not care enough to bother with it.

I could see that possibly.
When I think about the illegal stills in my area, the use of illegal alcohol is similar in contrast to rec m j.
Most people would rather buy it from a reputable distributor in a storefront than bubba from the trunk of his car.
Illegal alcohol production is very low on the scale of LE here. Meth is still king.
I believe illegal weed enforcement on a low level dealer scale will be nonexistent in those three states. If the big cartels start interrupting the tax flow, I can see the state getting 10-8 on arresting them. Possibly it would add officers to their ATF or configure a new agency, Cannabis Cops.






Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Mayhem like Me
11-07-2012, 16:53
Big question,,,Will the po po in those states be allowed to consume when off duty.. and will it no longer be a disqualification for hiring...ATF says no possession of a firearm if you smoke the refer..

Vigilant
11-07-2012, 17:22
Big question,,,Will the po po in those states be allowed to consume when off duty.. and will it no longer be a disqualification for hiring...ATF says no possession of a firearm if you smoke the refer..

I say nothing should change on that. I am in favor of mandatory drug testing for just about any job out there, and certainly for someone to receive welfare or SSI.

Buck Farack.

Vigilant
11-07-2012, 17:26
I think it will actually encourage the illegal trade. The fact that there will be a way to possess it legally, will discourage law enforcement from using any more time than they already do related to these calls. When the quesiton will be whether or not the weed possessed has had the requisite taxes paid, LE just will not care enough to bother with it.

We would very likely save money overall by selling it so cheap that it would no longer be profitable to smuggle it in. That could also possibly take away some of the crack/meth abuse. Possibly. If I had to choose between a pothead and a meth/crack user, I believe pot would be the lesser of the evils. But not by much.

c01
11-07-2012, 17:59
Good grief enough with the comparisons to crack and meth.

:faint:

Morris
11-07-2012, 18:10
Will it really change things? Not really, except put more laws in place and drive some of these dispensaries underground. Give us a bit more teeth for DUIs, until the standard gets challenged by defense attorneys in the courts.

It's legalized by the people. Now it's up to the legislature to figure out how it will work.

We will keep doing our job within the law.

Smoking off duty? Entirely possible with some of our more generation me folks. But that will see a challenge as well, especially if alcohol is permitted to be consumed off duty.

GRIMLET
11-07-2012, 18:40
Will it really change things? Not really, except put more laws in place and drive some of these dispensaries underground. Give us a bit more teeth for DUIs, until the standard gets challenged by defense attorneys in the courts.

It's legalized by the people. Now it's up to the legislature to figure out how it will work.

We will keep doing our job within the law.

Smoking off duty? Entirely possible with some of our more generation me folks. But that will see a challenge as well, especially if alcohol is permitted to be consumed off duty.

The hardest part is to determine if the thc in your system is from last night or an hour or two ago.

I dont see any agency allowing its use.
The decision would be appealed all the way to federal court. And as we all know, its still federally illegal to possess or use for the average populous. I think its a non issue as far as employment goes.







Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Sharky7
11-07-2012, 18:49
Whatever happens in those states, I know it will increase the amount of weed in my state. We are already receiving a LOT of weed being sent through the mail from California. Lots more people in Colorado and Washington will come up with the same business plan.

Happypuppy
11-07-2012, 18:53
I am in WA and this afternoon passed a guy smoking a joint just walking down the street. Not that odd in Seattle but my small town it still is not the norm ...yet


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

DaBigBR
11-07-2012, 19:15
Big question,,,Will the po po in those states be allowed to consume when off duty.. and will it no longer be a disqualification for hiring...ATF says no possession of a firearm if you smoke the refer..

Still a controlled substance under federal law...

We would very likely save money overall by selling it so cheap that it would no longer be profitable to smuggle it in. That could also possibly take away some of the crack/meth abuse. Possibly. If I had to choose between a pothead and a meth/crack user, I believe pot would be the lesser of the evils. But not by much.

Supply and demand will still ultimately drive prices, as they do with most things. The only way to decrease price is to increase supply or decrease demand. I don't think a bunch of jumbo pot farms is the answer, nor do I see demand decreasing.

Vigilant
11-07-2012, 19:29
Perhaps the government should just enact a complete ban on all marijuana.

Oh wait....

blueiron
11-07-2012, 19:52
DEA and the US Attorney don't care what State voters legalize. Under the USC... got dope? Go to a FCI.

Vigilant
11-07-2012, 20:16
DEA and the US Attorney don't care what State voters legalize. Under the USC... got dope? Go to a FCI.

I'm going to have to see if I can get that 'personal tag' of yours in my state. I doubt 'Buck Farack' would fly.



Buck Farack.

DFinch
11-07-2012, 21:07
It did not pass in Oregon (which is shocking).

We anticipate a mass exodus over the bridge to Vancouver, WA.

GRIMLET
11-07-2012, 21:13
It did not pass in Oregon (which is shocking).

We anticipate a mass exodus over the bridge to Vancouver, WA.

Thanks for the clarification.
Possibly a toll road for extra tax revenue. Y'all could it the toke road fee. Hahahaha





Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Morris
11-07-2012, 22:20
It did not pass in Oregon (which is shocking).


That shocks me, considering that Oregon is often viewed as more liberal in many ways than Washington.

Newcop761
11-07-2012, 23:39
It's Portland and Eugene. Just like King County that screws up Washington...

The Mexican DTO's aren't going to give a wit about pot being legal. They will still grow, smuggle, transport, and distribute it.

The violence and profit will still be there. Home invasion robberies will continue.
The DUIs we've already talked about.

Now what happens when Johnny Pothead tokes up before work, or at work and then cuts his fingers off with a skill saw. Standard practice for workers comp to demand a pee test. Will pissing hot get the workers comp case denied? Will private employers be allowed to fire the stoners?

Interesting times.

COLOSHOOTR
11-08-2012, 17:41
From your points it would seem legalization may help some of the problems with violence as no illegal means of acquisition are needed. It would also seem to allow more time for patrol and narcotics to work on the cartels. May I suggest contacting your
AG with recommendations on regulations and penalties for illegal dealers and those who may supply kids.
I am very sorry for your coworker who was killed. Im not sure how a card in his pocket made a difference.
I can see how robberies are a real concern for all, especially responding officers. It is difficult to single out one type of legal business due to robberies.
After all, banks can be dangerous too.

It is really important for LE to get involved with the regulations. Again, please contact or encourage your local PBA or FOP to get in early on structuring the new laws regarding this.


I don't really see how my points support legalization at all. After all these issues stemmed from "legal weed" in the first place. Like i said before the legalization only covers ages 21+ so there is will still be the illegal market for the under 21 crowd. It wasn't hard to get a card here in the first place since all you had to do was claim your pinky hurt and they would give you a card and the illegal market has still been going on strong with more potent medical strains being sold on the street.

Armed robberies way up all involving a so called "legal business" that sells medical marijuana. There are easlily 10 (or more) robberies to dispensaries to every every one bank robbery. Also, the robberies have all been armed take over style robberies and several have had shots fired and people have been killed in the robberies. I've never been to a bank robbery where someone has been killed and in over 7 years I've only been to one where shots have been fired. Most bank robberies involve notes being passed or simulated weapons rather then the hollwood style take overs that are so common with dispensary robberies.

Burglaries are also another issue.... Sure I know there are burglaries to all sorts of different places but business wise it's probably another 10-1 deal compared to other legal businesses.

As for the card in the pocket of the guy that killed one of our own. Sure, the card didn't make him do it but the fact he was using that card to get "legal medicine" and was then would turn and sell that "medicine" out on the street was probably part of the reason he had the gun on him. Maybe where you are drug dealers don't carry guns but they do here. If he couldn't get the "medicine" legally would it have stopped anything? Maybe or maybe not we'll never know but having the medical marijuana card sure it sure made it easy to be a drug dealer since he knew we could stop him and he'd be walking away shortly after with his product in hand.

As for getting involved it sure sounds good but they would never listen to a word we have to say here... I'll refrain from saying anymore than that to keep myself from getting into trouble.

GRIMLET
11-08-2012, 19:22
I don't really see how my points support legalization at all. After all these issues stemmed from "legal weed" in the first place. Like i said before the legalization only covers ages 21+ so there is will still be the illegal market for the under 21 crowd. It wasn't hard to get a card here in the first place since all you had to do was claim your pinky hurt and they would give you a card and the illegal market has still been going on strong with more potent medical strains being sold on the street.

Armed robberies way up all involving a so called "legal business" that sells medical marijuana. There are easlily 10 (or more) robberies to dispensaries to every every one bank robbery. Also, the robberies have all been armed take over style robberies and several have had shots fired and people have been killed in the robberies. I've never been to a bank robbery where someone has been killed and in over 7 years I've only been to one where shots have been fired. Most bank robberies involve notes being passed or simulated weapons rather then the hollwood style take overs that are so common with dispensary robberies.

Burglaries are also another issue.... Sure I know there are burglaries to all sorts of different places but business wise it's probably another 10-1 deal compared to other legal businesses.

As for the card in the pocket of the guy that killed one of our own. Sure, the card didn't make him do it but the fact he was using that card to get "legal medicine" and was then would turn and sell that "medicine" out on the street was probably part of the reason he had the gun on him. Maybe where you are drug dealers don't carry guns but they do here. If he couldn't get the "medicine" legally would it have stopped anything? Maybe or maybe not we'll never know but having the medical marijuana card sure it sure made it easy to be a drug dealer since he knew we could stop him and he'd be walking away shortly after with his product in hand.

As for getting involved it sure sounds good but they would never listen to a word we have to say here... I'll refrain from saying anymore than that to keep myself from getting into trouble.

Its easy to see you do not support legalization. Thats not the topic of this thread.
If decriminalization removes the need for street dealers of weed and those who fake an illness/injury to obtain it and deal it, that seems like a win for the patrol officer in that aspect.
The dui guy and accident reconstruction guys are going to work more.
Its already illegal for kids now to have it so I really dont see a shift in that enforcement.
The robberies of dispensaries, as you describe, is frightful.



A second question for this thread....
Would you work an off duty security job at an m j dispensary/distributorship?
If so, how much would you require for payment?
As much as current off duty gigs or more?




Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Morris
11-08-2012, 20:37
Would you work an off duty security job at an m j dispensary/distributorship?

Nope. Most of those places are run by liberals and hippies who think I am the son of the devil's mistress.

GRIMLET
11-08-2012, 20:54
Nope. Most of those places are run by liberals and hippies who think I am the son of the devil's mistress.

I can see that many may not want officers around, even to protect them.
Could you imagine if a major cigarette company opened shop and started their own distributorship?
If it was run like a real business and by businessmen/corporate would you then work as off duty security?




Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Newcop761
11-08-2012, 21:41
Nope. I have no desire to be around them or their customers.
Enough. Light up and let the thread die.

GRIMLET
11-08-2012, 23:56
I will let the thread die.
But first, if you didn't like the topic you didn't have to post.
The thread was only about how it would change the patrol of an officer in those states. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thread ended.
Grimlet OUT.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

IrishSheepdog54
11-09-2012, 00:39
This thread is giving me the munchies.

merlynusn
11-09-2012, 07:22
I actually think it'll adversely affect the basic patrol officer with higher level stuff. Marijuana makes it easy to get into a car to search. All you have to do is smell it, see a seed, etc and you now have PC for the car. How many guns, etc do you find that way.

If MJ was legal, then that PC would evaporate and it'll be a lot harder to find more weight, and guns on people who shouldn't have them.

indigent
11-09-2012, 07:53
This thread is giving me the munchies.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/mbimrie/funions.jpg

Knute
11-09-2012, 09:33
We finally got rid of all the MMJ dispensaries in my city...but now they get to come back. I guess we'll just keep responding to the take-over style robberies these places have, and continue to watch our media pass over reporting them. Job security for me I guess.

Hopefully we'll tell people sorry, but they voted for it and no longer respond to MJ related calls.

I'm sure our DUID's will go up even more. Getting tired of the "but I have a prescription for that" defense while they are driving stoned.

The real impact could be with K9 sniffs. Under 1 ounce is legal, but dogs can't tell quantity. The driver could always claim that they told the officer before the sniff that they have less than one ounce in the car and that is what the dogs are alerting to for a defense argument. But we had a few quick discussions with our DA's office who isn't interested in entertaining that type of defense...at this point anyhow.

Hollywood D
11-09-2012, 12:20
The cities in Colorado can opt out of the plan, basically meaning they can choose not to have dispensaries, although the possession of it will still be legal. I can tell you, since they made this whole law a few years ago where one is allowed to be a 'care giver' and grow it in their own home for their patients...crime is up. I can think of 5 homicides in my city over the past year which were all at peoples homes who were growing it. The last one was a straight up execution.

ClydeG19
11-09-2012, 12:22
I'm sure the Justice dept will be along with a lawsuit soon.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Sharkey
11-09-2012, 12:44
These states voted to allow recreational use of marijuana.

Without putting personal preferences or moral viewpoints into it, how will this affect your patrol? Are you for it or against it?



If only TX would pass it. I could go across the lot to the school, buy me joint and light one up on my lunch break.
:supergrin:

Personally, I am against it. I think it is better than getting angry drunk and beating the crap out of your family though.
Of course, I'm personally against murdering your unborn child too but no one asked me about that either.

It's a brave new world.................

GRIMLET
11-09-2012, 15:09
If only TX would pass it. I could go across the lot to the school, buy me joint and light one up on my lunch break.
:supergrin:

Personally, I am against it. I think it is better than getting angry drunk and beating the crap out of your family though.
Of course, I'm personally against murdering your unborn child too but no one asked me about that either.

It's a brave new world.................

You can go across the street now and get it. You want weed? Go to a jr high.

Hopefully laws will be put in place to really crucify those providing it to kids.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

old_pigpen
11-09-2012, 15:29
Very good article (http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/11/09/regulatory-catch-22-legalized-marijuana/)on Fox Business about all the unforseen issues that the MJ users and politicians didn't think about.

I laughed when I read that banks that handle revenue from legal MJ sellers or loan money to them will run afoul of Federal money laundering laws! :rofl:

DaBigBR
11-09-2012, 15:49
We finally got rid of all the MMJ dispensaries in my city...but now they get to come back. I guess we'll just keep responding to the take-over style robberies these places have, and continue to watch our media pass over reporting them. Job security for me I guess.

Hopefully we'll tell people sorry, but they voted for it and no longer respond to MJ related calls.

I'm sure our DUID's will go up even more. Getting tired of the "but I have a prescription for that" defense while they are driving stoned.

The real impact could be with K9 sniffs. Under 1 ounce is legal, but dogs can't tell quantity. The driver could always claim that they told the officer before the sniff that they have less than one ounce in the car and that is what the dogs are alerting to for a defense argument. But we had a few quick discussions with our DA's office who isn't interested in entertaining that type of defense...at this point anyhow.

I think the obvious argument is there is probable cause to believe that it's present, and that the government intrusion involved in finding it and determining how much outweighs the person's expectation of privacy in that situation, particularly:

1) While operating a vehicle which inherently has a lesser expectation of privacy.

2) When the marijuana is an intoxicant that can impair the ability of the person to drive in the first place.

Morris
11-10-2012, 01:25
I'm sure the Justice dept will be along with a lawsuit soon.

They won't in Washington state, one of the bluest blue states in the Union.