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Dukeboy01
11-07-2012, 19:44
I'm going ahead and posting this here instead of Political Issues because I'm looking for insight from Ohio po-pos and maybe firefighters too.

In last night's election, do you think Romney's vote margin was reduced among first responders due to the actions of the state Republican party in pushing Senate Bill 5 through last year?

In my experience, most cops around here are very conservative in their politics and regularly vote GOP, even if the union has endorsed a Democrat. (Heck, I routinely do myself.) However, a concerted effort by the GOP to attack our collective bargaining rights would probably result in a bunch of our guys staying home, even if they wouldn't pull the lever for the Dems.

I know Obummer's margin of victory in Ohio was high enough that a failure for a single subgroup of usual reliable GOP voters to turn out wasn't enough to cost Romney the state. I'm just curious about any anecdotes some of you might have.

CincyLawman
11-07-2012, 20:51
Yes. It absolutely played a part. Republicans in Ohio declared war against its public servants (police, fire, and teachers) two years ago and it has not been forgotten.

razdog76
11-07-2012, 21:12
I'm going ahead and posting this here instead of Political Issues because I'm looking for insight from Ohio po-pos and maybe firefighters too.

In last night's election, do you think Romney's vote margin was reduced among first responders due to the actions of the state Republican party in pushing Senate Bill 5 through last year?

In my experience, most cops around here are very conservative in their politics and regularly vote GOP, even if the union has endorsed a Democrat. (Heck, I routinely do myself.) However, a concerted effort by the GOP to attack our collective bargaining rights would probably result in a bunch of our guys staying home, even if they wouldn't pull the lever for the Dems.

I know Obummer's margin of victory in Ohio was high enough that a failure for a single subgroup of usual reliable GOP voters to turn out wasn't enough to cost Romney the state. I'm just curious about any anecdotes some of you might have.

Amongst my coworkers, there were very few Obama supporters, one that I can think of that openly supported him. It is of course entirely possible that many simply did not discuss it openly because we work for an elected official of the opposite party.

Brown won the senate race with a statistical landslide 53% to Mandel's 42%. Brown has always been a union guy; whereas Mandel stated he was opposed to the auto manufacturer bailout making a double insult to the unions with the SB2/SB5 debacle.

I might also add Mandel received over $22 million in outside spending, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Brown received over $14 million in outside help.

Mandel also received huge support from PAC's (11.6 million in ads) which just goes to show how solid the union vote against him was IMHO.

FiremanMike
11-10-2012, 07:30
Yes. It absolutely played a part. Republicans in Ohio declared war against its public servants (police, fire, and teachers) two years ago and it has not been forgotten.

Pretty much this.

cowboywannabe
11-10-2012, 07:55
it would make too much sense to vote for romney for president but vote against republicans for state office. the straight party line is easier to tow when you dont have to think.

CincyLawman
11-10-2012, 08:13
Exactly how I voted......

FiremanMike
11-10-2012, 08:37
it would make too much sense to vote for romney for president but vote against republicans for state office. the straight party line is easier to tow when you dont have to think.

That's how I voted you condescending prick, but thanks for greatly oversimplifying an incredibly complex and difficult decision process for us conservative public servants in Ohio.

Ohio Cop
11-10-2012, 13:08
I couldn't in good conscience vote for a man who would take my livelihood from me.


Neither could plenty of my coworkers.


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FiremanMike
11-10-2012, 13:15
I couldn't in good conscience vote for a man who would take my livelihood from me.


Neither could plenty of my coworkers.


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That was the sticking point for me, but at the last minute I bowed to my conservative innards and kept thinking of the (un fact checked) anecdote that Romney supposedly has a better bipartisan record. But then I considered that I blame the republicans in congress more than Obama for the utter lack of bipartisan cooperation. I'm not kidding, I spent probably 10 minutes staring at my ballot. I didn't feel totally good about my vote, but I wouldn't have felt good either way.

I'm definitely glad Mandel lost, he seemed even more slimy than most politicians, and damn was I tired of hearing about his military record, he was tossing that around way too much.

cowboywannabe
11-10-2012, 13:20
That's how I voted you condescending prick, but thanks for greatly oversimplifying an incredibly complex and difficult decision process for us conservative public servants in Ohio.

quit your crying...not enough of you did what you say you did and once again ohio carried obama's water.

Ohio Cop
11-10-2012, 13:28
quit your crying...not enough of you did what you say you did and once again ohio carried obama's water.

Cool man


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FiremanMike
11-10-2012, 13:30
quit your crying...not enough of you did what you say you did and once again ohio carried obama's water.

Yep, all on Ohio.. :upeyes:

cowboywannabe
11-10-2012, 13:32
Yep, all on Ohio.. :upeyes:

not quite.

cowboy1964
11-10-2012, 15:43
I couldn't in good conscience vote for a man who would take my livelihood from me.


Neither could plenty of my coworkers.


So you're ok with what Obama is doing to the entire country? Staying home was a de facto vote for Obama.

Senate Bill 5 is nothing compared to what is coming eventually. But hey, no one is willing to endure even a little pain to do what is right, so instead the entire system is headed for collapse.

razdog76
11-10-2012, 16:05
So you're ok with what Obama is doing to the entire country? Staying home was a de facto vote for Obama.

Senate Bill 5 is nothing compared to what is coming eventually. But hey, no one is willing to endure even a little pain to do what is right, so instead the entire system is headed for collapse.

System? :rofl:

Ohio Cop
11-10-2012, 16:43
So you're ok with what Obama is doing to the entire country? Staying home was a de facto vote for Obama.

Senate Bill 5 is nothing compared to what is coming eventually. But hey, no one is willing to endure even a little pain to do what is right, so instead the entire system is headed for collapse.

That's laughable at best. You buy into the hype for no reason, I'm my defending the man one bit but I refuse to vote for a man who would take food out of my family's mouth.


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Dukeboy01
11-10-2012, 16:49
Senate Bill 5 is nothing compared to what is coming eventually. But hey, no one is willing to endure even a little pain to do what is right, so instead the entire system is headed for collapse.

Senate Bill 5 was more than a little painful. It was also tactically stupid in a state as heavily unionized as Ohio is. Wisconsin showed them the way forward, but ideology trumped political savvy.

Tango 1Zero
11-10-2012, 17:21
Neighbor is a Union county worker. Always voted republican. He told me he was voting for Obama and the Dem. Governor Brown.
I told him I was shocked he just doesnt care and wont hear it about Gun control, I tried he would just says there all dirty.
Also have a Niece and her husband voted for Obama and they are shooters too. Im the guy they turn to for gun advice or repairs.
Now I will charge them tripple price.

FiremanMike
11-10-2012, 17:29
I love all these people outside Ohio acting as if they know what SB5 was like for us..

I still shake my head at all those paranoid about Obama gun control. Mitt Romney made opressive Massachusetts gun laws even worse during his tenure as governor, why does everyone gloss over that fact?

Ohio Cop
11-10-2012, 18:14
I love all these people outside Ohio acting as if they know what SB5 was like for us..

I still shake my head at all those paranoid about Obama gun control. Mitt Romney made opressive Massachusetts gun laws even worse during his tenure as governor, why does everyone gloss over that fact?

Nothin happened the first four years.


God willing ill sit here and say I told you so in 2016.


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MeefZah
11-17-2012, 19:20
I voted for Obama and I don't give a **** what most of you think about it.

And to answer the OP's question, the Republican party inserted a traffic cone up their own ass with SB 5 in Ohio, guys I know who would have sooner killed themselves than voted Democratic vowed to never again vote for a Republican because of that... it'll be fun to watch Kasich get defeated by a 80% margin in 2 years.

Kahr_Glockman
11-17-2012, 21:28
So you Ohio guys are saying that the Anti union stuff the republicans did is what affected the national election and the way an entire state voted?

See I dont buy into the union politics because Texas is a right to work state.

Lockback
11-17-2012, 21:33
That was the sticking point for me, but at the last minute I bowed to my conservative innards and kept thinking of the (un fact checked) anecdote that Romney supposedly has a better bipartisan record. But then I considered that I blame the republicans in congress more than Obama for the utter lack of bipartisan cooperation. I'm not kidding, I spent probably 10 minutes staring at my ballot. I didn't feel totally good about my vote, but I wouldn't have felt good either way.

I'm definitely glad Mandel lost, he seemed even more slimy than most politicians, and damn was I tired of hearing about his military record, he was tossing that around way too much.
Sherrod Brown is a *********, an old washed-up hippie. I can't stand him. Thanks for helping to get re-elected. :whistling:

Ohio Cop
11-17-2012, 22:16
So you Ohio guys are saying that the Anti union stuff the republicans did is what affected the national election and the way an entire state voted?

See I dont buy into the union politics because Texas is a right to work state.

That's all well and good for Texas. It would not fly up here. The good ol boy network is strong in Ohio.


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Kahr_Glockman
11-17-2012, 22:31
Not advocating one way or another. My father in law is a retired Michigan Game Warden. His retirement and pay is in great part to the strong union.

There have been times that I wish that they were unions because I would have been crapped on less. But all in all it hasn't been bad.

I am just gaini g insight into the way it had been working in Ohio.

Ohio Cop
11-17-2012, 22:52
Not advocating one way or another. My father in law is a retired Michigan Game Warden. His retirement and pay is in great part to the strong union.

There have been times that I wish that they were unions because I would have been crapped on less. But all in all it hasn't been bad.

I am just gaini g insight into the way it had been working in Ohio.

Here's some insight:

The county I used to work for had a commissioner that stated he would pay sheriffs deputies 8$ an hour if he could get away with it.
Guy never set foot in a jail with almost a 1000 inmates. Many of them some of thee baddest dudes around. Multiple assaults of officers etc.


Literally, it is just us up here.


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FiremanMike
11-18-2012, 07:01
So you Ohio guys are saying that the Anti union stuff the republicans did is what affected the national election and the way an entire state voted?

See I dont buy into the union politics because Texas is a right to work state.

Right to work means no unions, do you mean that Texas has strong unions? Either way, the Governor of Texas didn't run ad campaigns last year depicting lazy police and firemen, pulling his tea party cohorts in, and yell from every mountaintop that their lavish lifestyle is solely to blame for the collapse of our economy. The governor of Texas didn't rape state funding to local municipalities leading to layoffs of police, teachers, and firemen at a scale I would have never imagined, then use that same cash to put on a record number of new state troopers, expand state government, and tout a state budget surplus.

This is exactly what occurred in Ohio, and it is what shaped our view of the Republican Party. I voted for Romney at the last second but I didn't feel good about it and I don't judge a single public servant who didn't, because I lived that hell (it's still going on) and I know where they're coming from.



Sherrod Brown is a *********, an old washed-up hippie. I can't stand him. Thanks for helping to get re-elected. :whistling:

Mandel is an unbelievable snake (from people who've known him personally for years) and takes political cronyism to a new level. His campaign of "change Washington" made me throw up a bit every time I saw it, much like him constantly reminding us that he was a Marine. You must admit, those who toss that stuff out there the most generally did the least. So, I'm quite content with "helping to get re-elected"..

NEOH212
11-18-2012, 07:06
Ohio didn't matter one bit in the election. The big O was getting back in no matter what.

cowboywannabe
11-18-2012, 08:03
Right to work means no unions, do you mean that Texas has strong unions? Either way, the Governor of Texas didn't run ad campaigns last year depicting lazy police and firemen, pulling his tea party cohorts in, and yell from every mountaintop that their lavish lifestyle is solely to blame for the collapse of our economy. The governor of Texas didn't rape state funding to local municipalities leading to layoffs of police, teachers, and firemen at a scale I would have never imagined, then use that same cash to put on a record number of new state troopers, expand state government, and tout a state budget surplus.

This is exactly what occurred in Ohio, and it is what shaped our view of the Republican Party. I voted for Romney at the last second but I didn't feel good about it and I don't judge a single public servant who didn't, because I lived that hell (it's still going on) and I know where they're coming from.





Mandel is an unbelievable snake (from people who've known him personally for years) and takes political cronyism to a new level. His campaign of "change Washington" made me throw up a bit every time I saw it, much like him constantly reminding us that he was a Marine. You must admit, those who toss that stuff out there the most generally did the least. So, I'm quite content with "helping to get re-elected"..

that is incorrect. right to work means you can not be compelled to join a union in order to work someplace, as in a brick layer who doesnt want to be in a union can not be forced to join a union in order to work.

DaBigBR
11-18-2012, 09:22
I voted for Obama and I don't give a **** what most of you think about it.

I remember this thread...

DaBigBR
11-18-2012, 09:25
What floors me in all of this is that it ends up coming down to picking a party. "Republicans in Ohio did this, so I won't vote for a republican ever again." That common to a lot of issues. God forbid that people familiarize themselves with the issues that are important to them and vote for the candidate, regardless of party, who most closely fits those beliefs.

If you have a democrat running for one office that is most in line with your beliefs and a republican running for another that is most in line with your beliefs, and a who-knows-what running for something else, vote on the damn issues. Refusing to ever vote for any party again, partiuclarly based on a particular issue, at a particular time, seems silly to me.

But hey, that's just me. I'm an independent.

FiremanMike
11-18-2012, 10:30
What floors me in all of this is that it ends up coming down to picking a party. "Republicans in Ohio did this, so I won't vote for a republican ever again." That common to a lot of issues. God forbid that people familiarize themselves with the issues that are important to them and vote for the candidate, regardless of party, who most closely fits those beliefs.

If you have a democrat running for one office that is most in line with your beliefs and a republican running for another that is most in line with your beliefs, and a who-knows-what running for something else, vote on the damn issues. Refusing to ever vote for any party again, partiuclarly based on a particular issue, at a particular time, seems silly to me.

But hey, that's just me. I'm an independent.

I don't think it's quite so easy, but lets look at this election first.

First and foremost, Romney openly stated several times that he was supportive of Kasich and Issue 2/Senate Bill 5. In this case, it wasn't just party association, it was open support of the hell we went through.

Kahr_Glockman
11-18-2012, 13:39
There are not strong unions in Texas because we are a right to work state. To the point that a company can hire people to come out and work to cover a strike.

The good ol boy system is very much alive here in this state.

What I find funny is the support that the coal miners unions gave Obama with him wanting to shut down coal.

FiremanMike
11-18-2012, 14:08
There are not strong unions in Texas because we are a right to work state. To the point that a company can hire people to come out and work to cover a strike.

The good ol boy system is very much alive here in this state.

What I find funny is the support that the coal miners unions gave Obama with him wanting to shut down coal.

IIRC Obama only wanted to limit new coal industries, this shouldn't effect the current demand on coal, only limit growth. Essentially, current coal miners would be fine either way.

But, I could be wrong on that, I have no first hand knowledge of the coal industry.

blueiron
11-18-2012, 16:07
IIRC Obama only wanted to limit new coal industries, this shouldn't effect the current demand on coal, only limit growth. Essentially, current coal miners would be fine either way.

But, I could be wrong on that, I have no first hand knowledge of the coal industry.

Coal mining isn't just Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865559538/Could-new-EPA-rule-shut-down-Wests-biggest-coal-plant.html?pg=all

http://blogs.denverpost.com/thebalancesheet/2012/08/30/coalfired-power-declines-west-natural-renewableenergy/6163/

https://www.aps.com/general_info/aboutaps_18.html

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/4cc6850e28d4491ab28bf98ad4820708/AZ--Power-Plants-EPA

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/20120703epa-proposes-arizona-power-plant-upgrades.html

I have done academic studies [geophysical and geohydrologic] in this area and have listened to the coal industry positions, as expressed by Peabody; listened to the Dine' tribal position; the economics of the Natives and the non-Natives; and the Sierra Club/EPA/environmental groups.

The EPA is going to shut down coal mining on Black Mesa and the coal fired power plants in the Four Corners region. While popular with many, the real world effect is to throw thousands out of work, in two tribes where unemployment is upwards of 30%. There is little else for these people to do in the immediate future for employment.

Energy and economic/human development requires compromise among all interests. The theorists who were elected to promote social justice and economic parity have embraced their chose principle over reality. They see people suffering as a necessary part of the reformative shift.