Need some direction on adjusting a Hornady seating/crimping die [Archive] - Glock Talk

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SC_Dave
11-07-2012, 19:51
Trying to get the taper crimp right on a 9mm die. I have nothing to judge it by. I have adjusted it tight enough that I cannot push or pull the bullet by hand (not a puller). I can however with a little difficulty spin the bullet in the case. Do I need to crimp more?

Guidance is appreciated.
David

labdwakin
11-07-2012, 21:47
if you're loading FMJ... I would think so.

F106 Fan
11-07-2012, 22:04
If you are using a combined seating/crimping die, you need to read the instruction sheet to get it right.

From your description of being able to spin the bullet, you probably have something wrong. If you crimp too much, you will upset the neck tension and neck tension is what makes pistol bullets work.

All you want with a taper crimp is to close up the case mouth. The crimp should not dent the bullet and it certainly shouldn't cut through the plating on plated bullets. OTOH, it can't be so undercrimped that the casemouth drags in the chamber of snags on a case being ejected when it is sitting at the top of the magazine.

A separate taper crimp die is always a better setup. They don't cost much. Then you seat with one operation and crimp with another. The separate operations are much easier to adjust.

I think the process for adjusting a combination dies goes like this: First, with the die body high enough that the crimp portion of the die doesn't touch the case mouth, adjust the seating stem to seat a single bullet. Next, raise the seating plug so that it won't touch the bullet. Adjust the body of the die such that it crimps the bullet properly. Lock the die locknut. Now adjust the seating stem such that it just touches the crimped bullet and lock the stem locknut. Something like that...

Again, if you crimp too much you will defeat the neck tension. Further, straight wall pistol cartridges headspace on the casemouth. If the cartridge is overcrimped, there may not be a casemouth to position the cartridge in the chamber.

Richard

Colorado4Wheel
11-08-2012, 08:34
Crimp is not used to hold the bullet in place. Repeat that to yourself 10 times.

If your bullet is able to be spun then you are overcrimping or you have a sizing issue.

Three-Five-Seven
11-08-2012, 09:29
you have a sizing issue.

+1 :wow:

SC_Dave
11-08-2012, 10:41
Crimp is not used to hold the bullet in place. Repeat that to yourself 10 times.

If your bullet is able to be spun then you are overcrimping or you have a sizing issue.

I'm that special kind of dumb you read about in medical books so break it down a little for me. :embarassed:

I have read, re-read and watched videos on how to adjust it. I guess I am just confused about how much to adjust. Too little and I was able to push or pull the bullet in or out with my fingers. Too much and it crimps the FMJ bullet. In between and I can spin the bullet with my fingers. Help me understand what you mean by a sizing issue please sir. Are you saying I need to adjust my sizing/decaping die?
Thanks, David

F106 Fan
11-08-2012, 10:48
Are you saying I need to adjust my sizing/decaping die?
Thanks, David

Very likely!

The sizing die should have resized the case such that the bullet is held quite firm. There is no way that you should be able to rotate the bullet.

On every sizing die I have ever used, the directions say to raise the ram and turn the seating die down until it touches the shell holder. This is done with a case in the shellholder.

Then the directions diverge a little. Some suggest backing off a little (like the thickness of a piece of heavy paper while others claim that you should turn further down (maybe an 1/8 turn) such that the die hits so tightly that the press 'cams over'. Carbide dies probably don't want to cam over because they may crack. However, I have always subscribed to the cam over approach, regardless of the die.

You absolutely need the sizing die to reach all the way to the shell holder, one way or another.

Richard

F106 Fan
11-08-2012, 10:53
Further, you should have to bell the case mouth in order to seat the bullet. You don't want to bell it very far, just enough the get the bullet to start. Dillon says the bullet should sit on the casemouth and there should be no lead shaved off the bullet during seating. In the XL650 manual, they further recommend a dimension of 0.020" larger than the resized case diameter.

Richard

Colorado4Wheel
11-08-2012, 11:00
Further, you should have to bell the case mouth in order to seat the bullet. You don't want to bell it very far, just enough the get the bullet to start. Dillon says the bullet should sit on the casemouth and there should be no lead shaved off the bullet during seating. In the XL650 manual, they further recommend a dimension of 0.020" larger than the resized case diameter.

Richard


I have found .010" enough for Jacketed and .015" enough for Lead. .020" is a lot. It works fine but it's more then is needed.

F106 Fan
11-08-2012, 11:10
I have found .010" enough for Jacketed and .015" enough for Lead. .020" is a lot. It works fine but it's more then is needed.

I thought it was on the high side as well. But at least its written down and it's a number that can be measured.

Richard

F106 Fan
11-08-2012, 11:17
OP, after you get your sizing die adjusted and you verify the amount of belling, seat a bullet without crimping. That is, back off on the seating die and extend the seating plug.

Now, try to move the bullet. It should be quite tight. Test again after you have closed up the case mouth.

A few months ago someone around here was having a problem with a .380 sizing die; a Lee die, I believe. The die just wasn't reducing the case diameter enough to hold the bullet.

Eliminating this possibility is the reason for the test above.

Richard

SC_Dave
11-08-2012, 11:50
Thanks very much guys! I'll experiment and report back.
I really appreciate your time and effort!!!!
David

SC_Dave
11-08-2012, 16:39
I went back to the sizing/decaping die and started over setting it up from scratch and I think that was where my problem was as you guys suggested. I did the same with the seating/crimping die. I actually think both dies were off some. Anyway I think I have it now and I really appreciate the help guys!
David

Three-Five-Seven
11-08-2012, 16:43
In general, sizing dies are meant to be adjusted all the way down to the case holder when the ram is fully in the "up" position. The press should actually "cam over" slightly == i.e. sizing die slightly below height of case holder at top of ram extension. Slightly.

SC_Dave
11-08-2012, 17:03
Sorry for the bad focus but you can see the shiny portion of the case. Should I be sizing further down than this?

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk247/SC_Dave/Case.jpg

unclebob
11-08-2012, 17:17
The easiest way is to get a case gauge. If the resized case fits in the gauge you are good to go if not lower your sizer down until it does.

F106 Fan
11-08-2012, 17:20
Whether you see marks farther down the case will depend on how much the case has expanded during firing. I normally see some kind of scuffing all the way down to the casehead. Scuffing is too strong of a word. My dies are carbide and they don't tend to mark up the case.

If the brass came from a Glock, it will be oversized clear down to the solid base. Glock chambers are a little larger than some others and the brass tends to expand a little more.

You simply must get the die down until it touches the shell plate. Having done that you will almost certainly have resized the case properly.

In some cases where a die intended for use on a progressive press, eg Dillon, there will be a radius at the die mouth to expedite alignment. That radius will be larger than on, say, a Lee die. As a result, the Dillon die won't size as far down as the Lee. Some reloaders buy the Lee sizing die in preference to the Dillon specifically because it will size down a little farther. This is particularly important for Glock brass.

You really should have a case gauge to test the result of your resizing.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25548/catid/3/Dillon_Handgun_Case_Gages

Richard

SC_Dave
11-08-2012, 18:49
OK, just ordered the case gauge.
David