Rolling a Stop Sign, what to do? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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glockbanger
11-07-2012, 21:42
I got stopped and ticketed for rolling a stop sign tonight. I probably rolled it but I honestly can't remember, but I certainly did not run through it with out slowing down at all.

My question is, if I attest it in court. Will the police officer be able to use a video against me?

If there is no video proof, is there any chance I could get out of the ticket if the cop is present?

Is there any chance the cop will not show up?

Thanks

Edit: Thank you to everyone who responded seriously without getting up on your soapbox. I appreciate it, you guys are super cool :)

To all the finger pointing dorks out there, shut up. Please find something more important to rant about than minor traffic violations.

JBnTX
11-07-2012, 21:43
I guess you want the winning lottery numbers too?:rofl:

Pay the ticket, then start stopping at stop signs.

..

HollowHead
11-07-2012, 21:46
The Sixth Ammendment affords you the right to confront your accuser(s). Go for it. HH

GRIMLET
11-07-2012, 21:51
Will you testify that you don't remember if you stopped or not?

The officer will probably testify he watched your wheels and they never stopped rolling.

Your only hope is the officer might not show.

Pay the ticket or enjoy a non-paid day in court in which your chance of winning is probably low.


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nikerret
11-07-2012, 21:52
I got stopped and ticketed for rolling a stop sign tonight. I probably rolled it but I honestly can't remember, but I certainly did not run through it with out slowing down at all.

My question is, if I attest it in court. Will the police officer be able to use a video against me?

If there is no video proof, is there any chance I could get out of the ticket if the cop is present?

Is there any chance the cop will not show up?

Thanks

Yes, any and all evidence can be used against you.

Without video proof, his testimony of you did it versus your testimony of "I don't know" will win and you will be found guilty.

Very slim chance the cop won't show up. We get paid to be there and it's required, by law, that we show up when subpoenaed. Of course, you may get lucky.

janice6
11-07-2012, 21:53
Although it's getting to be common, it doesn't make it right. You got caught, pay the fine.

Butcher
11-07-2012, 21:53
No video is required. The officer's sworn testimony trumps yours. If you have a clean record, plead "no contest" or "guilty with an explanation" or whatever your state calls it, and tell the judge the same thing: "your Honor, I honestly don't remember if I fully stopped behind the line. If I rolled through like the officer said, I'm sorry. I came here to beg for mercy from the Court." You will most likely be given a fine without points, and a verdict of probation without judgment, which precludes you from receiving any points on your license and adversely affecting insurance rates.

Or you could have a judge who rolled out of bed the wrong way and he throws the book at you. Ya never know. Always better to dress professionally, accept responsibility, beg for mercy, and hope for the best.

Or you could just pay the ticket and take the points. If you have a ****ty record I wouldn't even waste the courts time. If you offend the judge then he could increase the recommended fine on the ticket to several hundred dollars, whatever your state allows (here in MD, non jailable traffic offenses all have recommended fines ranging from $25 to $290+, but if you contest them in court the judge has the power to raise any fine up to $500 per offense. In theory, a $25 seatbelt violation could cost you $500 if you piss off the judge.


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TactiCool
11-07-2012, 22:01
I got stopped and ticketed for rolling a stop sign tonight. I probably rolled it but I honestly can't remember, but I certainly did not run through it with out slowing down at all.

My question is, if I attest it in court. Will the police officer be able to use a video against me?

If there is no video proof, is there any chance I could get out of the ticket if the cop is present?

Is there any chance the cop will not show up?

Thanks

Dude are you serious?

Cops love going to court because they get paid, so yes you can count on that. Also, when it comes down to a verbal arguement, the judge will side with the officer every time.

I'll let you in on a little secret though, your best chance to win is to go with a trial by written declaration. Or if you're not happy with the outcome, trial de novo.

I have beaten several tickets using the TBWD.

427
11-07-2012, 22:04
Admit to nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

AK_Stick
11-07-2012, 22:05
If you rolled it, you ran it. There is no difference.

Mushinto
11-07-2012, 22:08
Your testimony that you do not remember something just reinforces testimony that you did it.

Plead and pay is the only honorable option.

droidfire
11-07-2012, 22:19
if you didn't come to a complete stop for the required time then you are probably one of those people who keeps trying to run me over on backstreet intersections with low traffic when I cross the street on foot.

i'm happy to hear you got ticketed, the officers in my city just ignore it and being a pedestrian is more dangerous then it should be.

what you did is no different then texting or the various other things drivers do instead of paying attention to where they fling their rolling battering ram.

you already admitted you can't remember what you did, and that you were oblivious to what was around you...else you would have seen the police officer. Doubtless the judge will conclude the same when you show up and attest to this.

Unless you were planning to commit to purjury and hope for the best?

DaGump
11-07-2012, 22:22
Stop Or Slow Down?

A lawyer runs a stop sign and gets pulled over by a Sheriffs Deputy. He thinks that he is smarter than the Deputy because he is sure that he has a better education. He decides to prove this to himself and have some fun at the deputies expense.

Deputy says, "License and registration, please."

Lawyer says, "What for?"

Deputy says, "You didn't come to a complete stop at the stop sign."

Lawyer says, "I slowed down, and no one was coming."

Deputy says, "You still didn't come to a complete stop. License and registration, please."

Lawyer says, "What's the difference?"

Deputy says, "The difference is you have to come to a complete stop, that's the law. License and registration, please!"

Lawyer says, "If you can show me the legal difference between slow down and stop, I'll give you my license and registration and you give me the ticket, if not you let me go and no ticket."

Deputy says, "Exit your vehicle, sir."

At this point, the deputy takes out his nightstick and starts beating the ever-loving snot out of the lawyer and says "Do you want me to stop or just slow down?":supergrin:

greatwun
11-07-2012, 22:25
I'd take the chance and hope he doesn't show up to court.


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Radam3
11-07-2012, 22:30
I got the same ticket many a years ago now. Went to my court date, and officer was there. Be polite and professional. I admitted guilt and asked to be only fined with no points. Both judge and officer had no problem with this. (granted only the judge mattered...) The county got their money and I was out $90 bucks (I think) but nothing went on my record, so no insurance hike. Obviously it helps if your driving record is clean for this option to work...

Best of luck. Remember, be polite and professional. It means a lot.

Before you can lead, you must refuse to follow

CAcop
11-07-2012, 23:02
Dude are you serious?

Cops love going to court because they get paid, so yes you can count on that. Also, when it comes down to a verbal arguement, the judge will side with the officer every time.

I'll let you in on a little secret though, your best chance to win is to go with a trial by written declaration. Or if you're not happy with the outcome, trial de novo.

I have beaten several tickets using the TBWD.

Depends on the contract and the area.

We get paid 4 hours if we show up and leave 1 minute after arrival if cut loose.

A nearby agency does not pay their officers for traffic court. Their officers never show up. The subpoenas in CA for traffic court cannot go to warrant if you blow them off. The department can hammer you but if they did they would have to pay. We get at least a stern talking to if we miss traffic court.

glockbanger
11-07-2012, 23:06
if you didn't come to a complete stop for the required time then you are probably one of those people who keeps trying to run me over on backstreet intersections with low traffic when I cross the street on foot.

It is quite presumptuous to say "one of those people". Hopefully they'll keep trying.

i'm happy to hear you got ticketed, the officers in my city just ignore it and being a pedestrian is more dangerous then it should be.

I'll be happy to hear when they succeed.

what you did is no different then texting or the various other things drivers do instead of paying attention to where they fling their rolling battering ram.
Harp, harp..... harp
you already admitted you can't remember what you did, and that you were oblivious to what was around you...else you would have seen the police officer. Doubtless the judge will conclude the same when you show up and attest to this.
Building a case against me as we speak.. Golf clap.
Unless you were planning to commit to purjury and hope for the best? Wittingly accusatory, yet offensive! Nice touch.

CAcop
11-07-2012, 23:09
I got stopped and ticketed for rolling a stop sign tonight. I probably rolled it but I honestly can't remember, but I certainly did not run through it with out slowing down at all.So you are admitting you failed to stop.

My question is, if I attest it in court. Will the police officer be able to use a video against me?Yup.

If there is no video proof, is there any chance I could get out of the ticket if the cop is present?Sure if you can convince the judge there is a valid reason for you to violate the law.

Is there any chance the cop will not show up?Possibly see other post.

Thanks

Please do not be "that guy" who admits the violation then starts to argue with the judge that the law should not apply to him.

mr00jimbo
11-07-2012, 23:17
I don't remember the last time I came to a complete stop at a stop sign...I'm John Dillinger here!

TK-421
11-07-2012, 23:36
Stop Or Slow Down?

A lawyer runs a stop sign and gets pulled over by a Sheriffs Deputy. He thinks that he is smarter than the Deputy because he is sure that he has a better education. He decides to prove this to himself and have some fun at the deputies expense.

Deputy says, "License and registration, please."

Lawyer says, "What for?"

Deputy says, "You didn't come to a complete stop at the stop sign."

Lawyer says, "I slowed down, and no one was coming."

Deputy says, "You still didn't come to a complete stop. License and registration, please."

Lawyer says, "What's the difference?"

Deputy says, "The difference is you have to come to a complete stop, that's the law. License and registration, please!"

Lawyer says, "If you can show me the legal difference between slow down and stop, I'll give you my license and registration and you give me the ticket, if not you let me go and no ticket."

Deputy says, "Exit your vehicle, sir."

At this point, the deputy takes out his nightstick and starts beating the ever-loving snot out of the lawyer and says "Do you want me to stop or just slow down?":supergrin:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The answer is really quite simple, man up and pay the ticket. You ran the stop sign, got caught, got ticketed, no man up and accept the consequences. Don't like it? Quit whining and learn to obey the law when the cops are around. The law states you must come to a COMPLETE stop, that means your car has ZERO forward momentum, and you're fully BEHIND the stop sign. Doesn't matter if there is any other traffic or not. The law is the law, and if you don't want to deal with the consequences when you get caught breaking it, then don't break it, duh.

Warp
11-07-2012, 23:36
although it's getting to be common, it doesn't make it right. You got caught, pay the fine.

+ 1

goldenlight
11-07-2012, 23:39
Admit to nothing. Deny everything. Make counter accusations.

Tell the judge the officer solicited sex from you in exchange for not writing you a ticket.

Roll your eyes at the judge.

That wins every time.:whistling:

JimBianchi
11-07-2012, 23:43
Years ago in CA, just showing up and signing in with the clerk got me an option of a fine only. Clerk said if I could pay the fine right now ($90) I would get no points and be free to go.

I had $85 on me and showed her that was it. (I came in to ask for an extension to pay, because I had to deploy for 4 months and while I was gone it might turn into a bench warrant.)

They had a policy (San Bernadino County, Victorville court, 1988) that if I could pay the majority of it right then and there (I think 75% or better), case closed.

I paid it and went my merry way, broke for the next 10 days, but free of the hassle and worry.

I also got a ticket here in Vegas 8yrs ago (15 over in a 35mph) if I took the online drivers course and passed it, pay the fine and no points. Course was $75, fine was $125, but no points and I was guilt of 20+ over, cop gave me a break, so I was happy to pay!

Good luck!

GVFlyer
11-08-2012, 00:10
As you committed a criminal offense (where you free to leave once you were pulled over?), ask for a trial by jury. Next, waive your right to a "quick and speedy trial" and ask for a continuance in order to better prepare your defense. Finally, ask for a change of venue to get on another docket. After you have gone through these legal wickets, much time will have transpired and it is unlikely that the police officer will show up to testify against you. When he doesn't, ask for a "dismissal for lack of prosecution".

DanaT
11-08-2012, 00:37
Very slim chance the cop won't show up. We get paid to be there and it's required, by law, that we show up when subpoenaed. Of course, you may get lucky.

You notice something said in his sentence. "We get paid to be there". Figure out which day the cop that wrote you a ticket has off, hopehsi shift doesnt change, and change your court date to a day he doesnt work. That is your best chance of him not showing up. They like to get paid to show up.

Ftttu
11-08-2012, 00:39
You have the right to fight it, and yes, you do have a chance of winning. Every cop and every judge is different, and there is a possibility the cop may not show up. You can take your chance on that or winning, or you can probably take defensive driving. Here in Texas, a stop line with a stop sign means you have to stop at the stop line, not the sign. If the cop didn't have a good view of your vehicle approaching both the stop line and the stop sign, you may have a case. After 21 years of being a LEO, I have probably lost two stop sign cases in court.

*ASH*
11-08-2012, 02:40
maybe the video will be grainy where you cant really see it . there are alot of grainy cop videos

skeeter7
11-08-2012, 02:59
I would chalk it up as lesson learned or karma just coming to bite you back for something. Just pay the ticket and be more cautious unless you think it's going to be worth the aggrivation of going to court and worrying the whole time if the police officer will show up or not because then you will most likely tack on court costs.

By the way, in our state, we have a "good driver" rule where you can plead "guilty with a good driving record" if you haven't gotten a ticket for 3 years or more. The judge will then dismiss the ticket and your 3 year clock starts over again. Anything like that where you're from?

Geezer Glide
11-08-2012, 03:50
Why aren't you willing to accept the responsibility for your actions?

Butcher
11-08-2012, 04:09
Why aren't you willing to accept the responsibility for your actions?

Rookie diver perchance


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Front Sight
11-08-2012, 04:20
Pay your fine if you say you don't remember that could be the start of other problems. Obviously you rolled it or you wouldn't have gotten a ticket.

E-2-E
11-08-2012, 04:22
Why aren't you willing to accept the responsibility for your actions?

Personal responsibility is lost in this country. He may have to have his mother go with him to court, or at least pack his lunchbox.

GRIMLET
11-08-2012, 04:22
I would chalk it up as lesson learned or karma just coming to bite you back for something. Just pay the ticket and be more cautious unless you think it's going to be worth the aggrivation of going to court and worrying the whole time if the police officer will show up or not because then you will most likely tack on court costs.

By the way, in our state, we have a "good driver" rule where you can plead "guilty with a good driving record" if you haven't gotten a ticket for 3 years or more. The judge will then dismiss the ticket and your 3 year clock starts over again. Anything like that where you're from?

Where is that? I am sure the ticket comes back of you get another violation within 3 years, right?


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Bren
11-08-2012, 04:29
I got stopped and ticketed for rolling a stop sign tonight. I probably rolled it but I honestly can't remember,

So, step by step - you admit that, as far as you know, you may have run the stop sign and a police officer, with experience and training, watching from outside your car, says you did. Even with you telling only your side, your guilt is undisputed.

but I certainly did not run through it with out slowing down at all.

Then you say you know you didn't "run through it with out slowing down at all" - so, if it was a "slow" sign, or you know some state where that's a defense, you might be onto something. In the states I know, the sign says STOP and you break the law if you don't come to a complete stop with zero forward motion of your vehicle AND come to that stop either before a line painted on the road or before entering an intersection. "Slowed" would be no more than a confession that you ran a stop sign.


My question is, if I attest it in court. Will the police officer be able to use a video against me?

Whatever "attesting" is (if that's a legal term used in traffic court where you live, it isn't here - more like probate court) of course the officer could use video, but for running a stop sign I doubt anybody will go to that much trouble.

If there is no video proof, is there any chance I could get out of the ticket if the cop is present?
No. That is, literally, the complete answer. However, feel free to waste some time by going to court and telling them you "slowed down" for the sign, so they can laugh at you.


Is there any chance the cop will not show up?


That happens sometimes - they might dismiss it, or continue it for a trial date, if that happens.

Bren
11-08-2012, 04:32
Wittingly accusatory, yet offensive! Nice touch.

You started a thread by admitting you broke the law and asking how to get out of it - you accused yourself and you don't really have a moral high ground.

Psychman
11-08-2012, 04:39
Pay the ticket. Geeze, what is wrong with some of you people?

SgtScott31
11-08-2012, 04:47
As you committed a criminal offense (where you free to leave once you were pulled over?), ask for a trial by jury. Next, waive your right to a "quick and speedy trial" and ask for a continuance in order to better prepare your defense. Finally, ask for a change of venue to get on another docket. After you have gone through these legal wickets, much time will have transpired and it is unlikely that the police officer will show up to testify against you. When he doesn't, ask for a "dismissal for lack of prosecution".

You seriously think any judge will allow this over a stop sign violation? NOT

To the OP, here's an idea, it's called TAKING RESPONSIBILITY. Baby cheezeits a stop sign violation and you're wanting to go to the moon to avoid actually pleading guilty. Says a lot about your character.

Bren
11-08-2012, 04:48
Pay the ticket. Geeze, what is wrong with some of you people?

What I like is when they get a lawyer and go to trial and win...then the polcie walk out of court laughing, because the guy just spent more on his stop sign ticket than the fine would cost AND the officer just got paid overtime to sit through his trial - win/win for the police.:supergrin:

Bren
11-08-2012, 04:50
As you committed a criminal offense (where you free to leave once you were pulled over?), ask for a trial by jury. Next, waive your right to a "quick and speedy trial" and ask for a continuance in order to better prepare your defense. Finally, ask for a change of venue to get on another docket. After you have gone through these legal wickets, much time will have transpired and it is unlikely that the police officer will show up to testify against you. When he doesn't, ask for a "dismissal for lack of prosecution".

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::upeyes:

lunarspeak
11-08-2012, 04:55
my quiestion is....are you going to admit guilt as you did here or lie to the judge????

mrmedina
11-08-2012, 04:58
http://www.cochranfirm.com/

The Machinist
11-08-2012, 05:02
Most traffic ticket advice you'll get from all the skirt-wearing beta males on GT is to roll over and take it. Never mind the cop wasn't keeping anyone safe. Never mind you didn't endanger anyone. Bow your head, and beg in front of the judge. That's what "real men" do. :rofl:

686Owner
11-08-2012, 05:11
Most traffic ticket advice you'll get from all the skirt-wearing beta males on GT is to roll over and take it. Never mind the cop wasn't keeping anyone safe. Never mind you didn't endanger anyone. Bow your head, and beg in front of the judge. That's what "real men" do. :rofl:

I agree, running stop signs is perfectly safe.

wprebeck
11-08-2012, 05:20
Most traffic ticket advice you'll get from all the skirt-wearing beta males on GT is to roll over and take it. Never mind the cop wasn't keeping anyone safe. Never mind you didn't endanger anyone. Bow your head, and beg in front of the judge. That's what "real men" do. :rofl:

Since you were there, perhaps you can testify in his defense.


Oh, you weren't there? Hmm..Exactly how do you know if he didn't endanger anyone, then? Seems to me that rolling through a stop sign could present a number of hazards, or not many, depending on the circumstances.

Of course, with your "I hate the police" attitude, your reply is not surprising. And, for someone who constantly preaches personal responsibility, you seem a bit hypocritical about it. I guess you don't need to be that way, when it involves the police.

On a side note, how is it that a die hard libertarian such as yourself, is a fan of the most socialist sci-fi series ever?

The Machinist
11-08-2012, 05:43
Since you were there, perhaps you can testify in his defense.


Oh, you weren't there? Hmm..Exactly how do you know if he didn't endanger anyone, then? Seems to me that rolling through a stop sign could present a number of hazards, or not many, depending on the circumstances.

Of course, with your "I hate the police" attitude, your reply is not surprising. And, for someone who constantly preaches personal responsibility, you seem a bit hypocritical about it. I guess you don't need to be that way, when it involves the police.

On a side note, how is it that a die hard libertarian such as yourself, is a fan of the most socialist sci-fi series ever?
Cops don't hang out at busy intersections. They hang out where they know motorists are likely to roll through a stop sign, since there's nobody else there.

I don't hate the police. In fact, all but one police officer I've ever had contact with, have been courteous, respectful, and decent. I do hate that cities task their officers with the job of soaking motorists for the purposes of revenue generation. Spare me your spiel on where the money goes. It's being take from private citizens, and being handed to the state.

Personal responsibility has nothing to do with the police. That's something in the heart of every human being. If you mow down a pedestrian, stopping to assist, and calling for help is taking responsibility. Paying a chickens*** traffic ticket isn't about responsibility. It's about making the government richer.

Also, Star Trek rocks, and was created by a man who served with the LAPD. Why do you hate cops so much?

BSA70
11-08-2012, 05:52
Whether you rolled it or blew through it at 10+ mph, you ran it. The violation in my state is a pretty tuff one far as driver points and insurance going up. Jurisdictions has lesser charges they can reduce it to. Maybe you can get a reduction to a charge that there will be a fine but no hit on your insurance. You may find you have to hire a lawyer to get a reduction. Either way, I would go that route first.

I don't see you having any luck in a trial. You memory is hazy and I bet this officer has written a bunch of these charges at this stop sign.

frizz
11-08-2012, 06:05
What I like is when they get a lawyer and go to trial and win...then the polcie walk out of court laughing, because the guy just spent more on his stop sign ticket than the fine would cost AND the officer just got paid overtime to sit through his trial - win/win for the police.:supergrin:
Are you including insurance premium increases in this calculation? I have no idea what a decent traffic lawyer charges or what a moving violation does to rates over the next 3-5 years.

SFCSMITH(RET)
11-08-2012, 06:23
Personal responsibility has nothing to do with the police.

Also, Star Trek rocks, and was created by a man who served with the LAPD. Why do you hate cops so much?

EXACTLY. Personal responsibility is ABOUT doing the RIGHT THING, even if you don't like it, or don't like what they do with the money, you still pay the fine BECAUSE you are responsible for your actions.

For the record, I agree that cops hang out and try to raise revenue through traffic enforcement. EVERYONE knows that. So don't break the law. And if you do, pay the fine and move on. Like a grown up.

Oh, and while I love Star Trek.. But, no money economy and the world/universe is run by "The Federation".. could be socialist, though I have to admit that until this thread/comment, I never bothered to think about it.. and won't spend much more time on it either.

frizz
11-08-2012, 06:38
My brother-in-law is clueless about rolling through stop signs. My wife and I were riding in the back of his mini-van, and he rolled through every stop sign on a short errand to the store. This was 4 or 5, maybe 6 signs. He wasn't almost coming to a complete stop, either. He couldn't have dropped below 4-5mph.

On the way back, I asked if if he had any worries about getting a ticket for rolling through the intersections, and he insisted that he was stopping. When we came to the next sign we all agreed that he was going to stop... he rolled through it again! Maybe not quite as fast as the others, but that van never stopped moving.

If he'd thrown the gear into park, it probably would have cracked his flywheel.

The unusual thing about him is the fact that he is rather bright, but he is clueless in a few areas. One problem he has is following directions; he frequently gets lost in unfamiliar areas.

Looks like this is another problem area for him.

TBO
11-08-2012, 06:47
As you committed a criminal offense (where you free to leave once you were pulled over?), ask for a trial by jury. Next, waive your right to a "quick and speedy trial" and ask for a continuance in order to better prepare your defense. Finally, ask for a change of venue to get on another docket. After you have gone through these legal wickets, much time will have transpired and it is unlikely that the police officer will show up to testify against you. When he doesn't, ask for a "dismissal for lack of prosecution".

Award for best fiction 2012.

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OlliesRevenge
11-08-2012, 06:49
Go to court, then: Deny, lie, stick to your guns, and counter-accuse. "Attest" that it was the Officer that ran the stop sign, NOT you.

:supergrin:

Seriously though, one point that was missed here...

What I like is when they get a lawyer and go to trial and win...then the polcie walk out of court laughing, because the guy just spent more on his stop sign ticket than the fine would cost AND the officer just got paid overtime to sit through his trial - win/win for the police.
... in Bren's economic assessment was insurance rates. Sparing yourself an increase in insurance rates usually makes fighting your ticket + EV (Expected Value). Don't be deterred just because the "polcie" might leave the court laughing.

Hire a lawyer, and don't get sucked into the "morality" mindset by the "take responsibility for your actions" crowd. It doesn't matter if you came to a complete stop. There are plenty of situations where rolling through a stop sign is perfectly safe, yet illegal. I have one down the street from me where on the approach I can see any oncoming traffic from several hundred yards away -- if I wanted to I could make the right turn there at 20mph and it would be completely safe, yet totally illegal.

When it comes to whether or not a driving action is "safe" there is a "totality of circumstances" that matters more than whether or not you came to a complete stop at some sign on the corner. But the Cop pulling you over wont listen to it, because failing to come to a COMPLETE stop is an easily observable metric that can be used to single you out for roadside taxation... and that it what it is really all about.

It is a simple traffic ticket, guilt and innocence don't matter... it's not like you're clubbing baby seals or gunning down children.

Hire an attorney and fight it.

TBO
11-08-2012, 06:50
You notice something said in his sentence. "We get paid to be there". Figure out which day the cop that wrote you a ticket has off, hopehsi shift doesnt change, and change your court date to a day he doesnt work. That is your best chance of him not showing up. They like to get paid to show up.

Please always do this, we get paid overtime on days off.

The same people who ***** about Cops & revenue & taxes & tax payer burden, seem to have no problem being the one to push up the cost, so long as it's in defense of their bruised ego.

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frizz
11-08-2012, 06:59
EXACTLY. Personal responsibility is ABOUT doing the RIGHT THING, even if you don't like it, or don't like what they do with the money, you still pay the fine BECAUSE you are responsible for your actions.

For the record, I agree that cops hang out and try to raise revenue through traffic enforcement. EVERYONE knows that.


Cops generally do what they do because they have been told to do it by their supervisors. Y'know, like other people do. The money motivation and order comes from way up in city hall, so that is where the blame goes.

And keep in mind that some speed traps, like ones in neighborhoods with speeding problems, serve to increase safety.

Regardless, you can't blame the cops.

frizz
11-08-2012, 07:05
maybe the video will be grainy where you cant really see it . there are alot of grainy cop videos

Can you program that text about "grainy cop videos" to be a keyboard macro or something like that? You post it so often that it would save you a lot of time if you did this.

TBO
11-08-2012, 07:11
I never see it unless someone quotes it.
It's just his way to exercise his bias & poke at the cops.
Think of it as a version of an infant in a high chair dumping their bowl over.

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

frizz
11-08-2012, 07:20
I never see it unless someone quotes it.
It's just his way to exercise his bias & poke at the cops.
Think of it as a version of an infant in a high chair dumping their bowl over.

I was thinking more of an ape doo-dooing on his hand to fling it at zoo visitors

You have your mental picture. I have mine.


Seriously, *ASH* you have beaten this one to death. Time to write some new material.

misunderestimated
11-08-2012, 07:20
All though I can give you advice on your original question I can tell you this.

I always thought I made a full stop, apparently I did not. My Son pointed it out to me and taught me how to do it correctly .Now when I come to a stop sign I spell out S.T.O.P it takes about 2-3 seconds thatís a full stop. , Try it you will be surprised. I now spell out stop at every stop sign I go to and know factually I am making a full stop not doing a rolling stop or a California stop. I just recently went thru a stop sign with a bunch of officers on the other side of the intersection with about 10 cars on the side of the road getting summons. They flagged me down to tell me I was the only person all day that did a full stop

meleors
11-08-2012, 07:25
If there is no video proof, is there any chance I could get out of the ticket if the cop is present?
Thanks

Sure. Explain to the judge how stopping would have caused you to spill the whiskey you were drinking. Works like a charm! :whistling:

TBO
11-08-2012, 07:25
I'm glad to hear they gave you positive recognition. I make sure to do so at every opportunity.

Thank you for your awareness & effort in safe driving.

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

fnfalman
11-08-2012, 07:28
The Sixth Ammendment affords you the right to confront your accuser(s). Go for it. HH

You can either just take it from The Man. Or you can at least give it a college try and use your Due Process.

Butcher
11-08-2012, 07:38
I'm surprised no one has asked the obvious: did the officer have his hat on?


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Bruce M
11-08-2012, 07:39
OP: Where you are at may play a big part. Here, for instance, with a clean record you could go to court and plead no contest, or attend driver improvement school and end up saving money based on lack of a conviction. But other places, even in this state, greatly limit the ability to plead no contest.

Someone in your area may be here and have some specific advice. If you are in an urban area there may be some lawyer firms that specialize in traffic citations and will represent you for a relatively small fee. If nothing else, if you can go to a traffic court in your area, you should be able to get a feel for what may be your best choice by watching what other gys do and say and how the judge or magistrate reacts.



... I do hate that cities task their officers with the job of soaking motorists for the purposes of revenue generation. Spare me your spiel on where the money goes. ...
Here it is generally accepted that the costs associated with the clerks office for processing traffic citations, the court costs for dealing with them, and the police time and overtime, that traffic enforcement costs much more than it makes.

hamster
11-08-2012, 07:39
Why is it people in this country are too dumb to handle traffic circles and or yield signs?

No stop signs are needed in the world, just driver training +

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Zeichen_306.svg/220px-Zeichen_306.svg.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Zeichen_301.svg/220px-Zeichen_301.svg.png

I understand coming to a complete and total stop is vital to safety at busy intersections. But the idea of ticketing someone who is alone at the intersection at 2:30am because they:
*Slowed down to .00000001 mph instead of 0
*Looked both ways
*Carefully proceeded through the empty intersection.

.... is insane.

Bruce M
11-08-2012, 07:42
The traffic enforcement system in this nation has its roots grounded in traffic safety. That said, my opinion, is that it is far past time to let our insurance companies to harness current technology to assist with this process. Wanna drive 82 everywhere on the highway and mid 50s on surface streets? Cool. Forget the slight possibility of getting a citation; let your insurance company decide how they want to rate you and how much to charge. If you are 23 years old and have a 911 and a drinking problem, your insurance company already knows how much they should charge you for insurance based on actuarial tables. Want a low insurance premium? Your insurance company probably could actually do that by putting a recording GPS in your car. If you are always at 33 mph on the urban areas, at 54 on the highway and clearly stop at the stop signs, tat should cost you less than the guy that goes to full throttle or 90% braking every third block depending on whether he thinks he might be able to squeeze through the traffic light.

hamster
11-08-2012, 07:44
Please always do this, we get paid overtime on days off.

The same people who ***** about Cops & revenue & taxes & tax payer burden, seem to have no problem being the one to push up the cost, so long as it's in defense of their bruised ego.

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2


Not so much pushing up the cost as decreasing the revenue. :)

The day that local cities start donating 100% of traffic ticket revenue to charity is the day I stop contesting tickets :tongueout:

TBO
11-08-2012, 07:44
Strawman Why is it people in this country are too dumb to handle traffic circles and or yield signs?

No stop signs are needed in the world, just driver training +

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Zeichen_306.svg/220px-Zeichen_306.svg.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Zeichen_301.svg/220px-Zeichen_301.svg.png

I understand coming to a complete and total stop is vital to safety at busy intersections. But the idea of ticketing someone who is alone at the intersection at 2:30am because they:
*Slowed down to .00000001 mph instead of 0
*Looked both ways
*Carefully proceeded through the empty intersection.

.... is insane.



Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

frizz
11-08-2012, 07:47
All though I can give you advice on your original question I can tell you this.

I always thought I made a full stop, apparently I did not. My Son pointed it out to me and taught me how to do it correctly .Now when I come to a stop sign I spell out S.T.O.P it takes about 2-3 seconds thatís a full stop. , Try it you will be surprised. I now spell out stop at every stop sign I go to and know factually I am making a full stop not doing a rolling stop or a California stop. I just recently went thru a stop sign with a bunch of officers on the other side of the intersection with about 10 cars on the side of the road getting summons. They flagged me down to tell me I was the only person all day that did a full stop

I'm going to try this wiht my brother-in-law. That and/or "would you feel ready to put the gear selector into park?"

hamster
11-08-2012, 07:49
Strawman

Love you too.

hamster
11-08-2012, 07:52
I got stopped and ticketed for rolling a stop sign tonight. I probably rolled it but I honestly can't remember, but I certainly did not run through it with out slowing down at all.

My question is, if I attest it in court. Will the police officer be able to use a video against me?

If there is no video proof, is there any chance I could get out of the ticket if the cop is present?

Is there any chance the cop will not show up?

Thanks

Go to the local auto parts store in da hood. Buy yourself a single "spinner" rim.

Take it in to court and explain to the Judge. See your honor... my car is outfitted with spinner rims, so while my car was stationary it appeared to the officer that my car was in motion.


You're welcome.

http://motores.com.py/foro/index.php?attachments/spinners-gif.161306/

TBO
11-08-2012, 07:58
Go to the local auto parts store in da hood. Buy yourself a single "spinner" rim.

Take it in to court and explain to the Judge. See your honor... my car is outfitted with spinner rims, so while my car was stationary it appeared to the officer that my car was in motion.


You're welcome.

http://motores.com.py/foro/index.php?attachments/spinners-gif.161306/

Prosecutor: Officer, have you ever seen spinner rims before?

Officer: Yes Sir, hundreds of times.

Prosecutor: Officer did or could spinner rims have played a role in your observations?

Officer: No.

Judge at lunch after the trial: "Had another dumbass try the spinner defense today" :rolleyes:

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Mayhem like Me
11-08-2012, 08:04
You notice something said in his sentence. "We get paid to be there". Figure out which day the cop that wrote you a ticket has off, hopehsi shift doesnt change, and change your court date to a day he doesnt work. That is your best chance of him not showing up. They like to get paid to show up.

No we are mandated to appear by a subpoena and will show up.. if he is off duty he makes more in overtime..

Our agency and court will put a deputy in jail if they dont show up for court even traffic so my guess is they will be there if you show up.

m51
11-08-2012, 08:14
i guess you want the winning lottery numbers too?:rofl:

Pay the ticket, then start stopping at stop signs.

..
^^^^
this

Cubdriver
11-08-2012, 08:14
I always thought STOP was an acronym - Slow To Own Preference. :poke:

:tongueout:

<ducks and runs>

-Pat

(And FWIW, I stop)

Dalton Wayne
11-08-2012, 08:38
I got a ticket years ago for running through the flashing red lights at a RR track,

I fought it and won, at the time I ran the lights there was a tornado warning, and I was trying to get to shelter,

I presented all the evidence to the judge and he tossed it out.

Good luck

Mushinto
11-08-2012, 08:53
Cops don't hang out at busy intersections. They hang out where they know motorists are likely to roll through a stop sign, since there's nobody else there.
...

Maybe this is still true in some places, however in this century departments have access to data, which shows where the crashes are occurring, and assign officers accordingly. Strategic traffic enforcement always results in a lower crash rate in the designated areas. Cops who sandbag motorists in desolate places that haven't had a crash in decades are slugs.

hamster
11-08-2012, 09:01
Maybe this is still true in some places, however in this century departments have access to data, which shows where the crashes are occurring, and assign officers accordingly. Strategic traffic enforcement always results in a lower crash rate in the designated areas. Cops who sandbag motorists in desolate places that haven't had a crash in decades are slugs.

Some cities in our area make more revenue from traffic tickets than from any other source. One example Linndale Ohio. They have a less than one mile stretch of a local highway and collected orders of magnitude more revenue for the city by trolling that stretch than through any other activity the city performed.

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/oh_cuyahoga/ohio-senator-trying-to-eliminate-linndale-speed-trap-with-new-proposed-law

There definitely is a need for traffic enforcement, but I'd like to see the revenue aspect taken out of the equation. All ticket revenues profits* should go to charity.

Just my opinion.


*1. (Economics, Accounting & Finance / Accounting & Book-keeping) (often plural) excess of revenues over outlays and expenses in a business enterprise over a given period of time, usually a year

OlliesRevenge
11-08-2012, 10:20
Why is it people in this country are too dumb to handle traffic circles and or yield signs?



We are not too dumb to handle it... they are here now. No training required. The small city North of Seattle where I live has put several of these in, and they work great. One location in particular, near my local Safeway and its Safeway gas station comes to mind. It has dramatically improved traffic flow leaving the Safeway lot because drivers aren't hamstrung by the stupid notion that they must come to a COMPLETE stop even if there are no other drivers nearby.

The fact that traffic circles w/ yield signs work so well is a testament to the fact that the STOP sign (and the opportunities for roadside taxation that result) is a sub-optimal solution to traffic flow at intersections.

hamster
11-08-2012, 10:28
We are not too dumb to handle it... they are here now. No training required. The small city North of Seattle where I live has put several of these in, and they work great. One location in particular, near my local Safeway and its Safeway gas station comes to mind. It has dramatically improved traffic flow leaving the Safeway lot because drivers aren't hamstrung by the stupid notion that they must come to a COMPLETE stop even if there are no other drivers nearby.

The fact that traffic circles w/ yield signs work so well is a testament to the fact that the STOP sign (and the opportunities for roadside taxation that result) is a sub-optimal solution to traffic flow at intersections.

They put in a traffic circle around the corner from me. The first month was a complete disaster because every woman driver (yes, I went there) thought that the yield sign meant come to a complete stop and wait 5 seconds.

Now 1 year later traffic flows perfectly and everyone realizes it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

gigab1te
11-08-2012, 10:46
Go to the local auto parts store in da hood. Buy yourself a single "spinner" rim.

Take it in to court and explain to the Judge. See your honor... my car is outfitted with spinner rims, so while my car was stationary it appeared to the officer that my car was in motion.


You're welcome.

http://motores.com.py/foro/index.php?attachments/spinners-gif.161306/

I'll let everyone in on a little secret... when you come to a full stop, the rear area of the car (trunk) dips down noticibly. Also, and this might suprise you, but when your vehicle comes to a stop, it does not move in relation to the other objects around the vehicle (like the stop sign, shrubs on the roadside, etc.).

Bushflyr
11-08-2012, 10:52
Lawyer up and fight it. Many of these little BS tickets have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue generation. If you roll over and take it it provides incentive for the local PD to crank the screws a little tighter. Even if you lose you'll still cost the state more than they take in. If everyone did this the PD would have to quit their little "stealth tax" program and concentrate on fighting crime.

hamster
11-08-2012, 10:52
I'll let everyone in on a little secret... when you come to a full stop, the rear area of the car (trunk) dips down noticibly. Also, and this might suprise you, but when your vehicle comes to a stop, it does not move in relation to the other objects around the vehicle (like the stop sign, shrubs on the roadside, etc.).

I'll let YOU in on a little secret. There are degrees to "rolling" a stopsign.

1. A person can blow through a stopsign at 95 mph, at rush hour, cutting off 3 ambulances, running over a kitten and scaring old ladies.

2. A person can come to an abandoned farmland intersection at 3am on a sunday, slow to .000000000000000000001mph, look both ways, and safely proceed through the intersection.

Both scenarios the person would be guilty of the same offense. My reaction to how serious the offense is is based on the circumstance.
Guy 1 should get his license revoked. Guy 2 should be left unmolested.

Hell it is possible for a person "rolling" a stop sign to spend more time paused at the intersection checking for cross-traffic than the guy who comes to a complete and total stop for .5 seconds.

Bushflyr
11-08-2012, 10:54
I'll let everyone in on a little secret... when you come to a full stop, the rear area of the car (trunk) dips down noticibly.

Only true if the driver doesn't know how to drive in a manner comfortable for his passengers. In a well executed stop there is no "trunk dip."

686Owner
11-08-2012, 11:04
I got a ticket years ago for running through the flashing red lights at a RR track,

I fought it and won, at the time I ran the lights there was a tornado warning, and I was trying to get to shelter,

I presented all the evidence to the judge and he tossed it out.

Good luck

You stopped for 15 minutes when the officer pulled you over though?

ray9898
11-08-2012, 11:16
There definitely is a need for traffic enforcement, but I'd like to see the revenue aspect taken out of the equation. All ticket revenues profits* should go to charity.

Just my opinion.



Then taxes just go up. The criminal justice system is expensive and even with all the fines it never comes close to covering the cost. Take out the fines that a recirculated and the tax burden just gets larger.

TBO
11-08-2012, 11:42
I'll let YOU in on a little secret. There are degrees to "rolling" a stopsign.

1. A person can blow through a stopsign at 95 mph, at rush hour, cutting off 3 ambulances, running over a kitten and scaring old ladies.

2. A person can come to an abandoned farmland intersection at 3am on a sunday, slow to .000000000000000000001mph, look both ways, and safely proceed through the intersection.

Both scenarios the person would be guilty of the same offense. My reaction to how serious the offense is is based on the circumstance.
Guy 1 should get his license revoked. Guy 2 should be left unmolested.

Hell it is possible for a person "rolling" a stop sign to spend more time paused at the intersection checking for cross-traffic than the guy who comes to a complete and total stop for .5 seconds.

Person #1 is guilty of Reckless Driving (much more serious than a stop sign violation).

Person #2 is guilty of a Stop Sign violation.

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

Sharky7
11-08-2012, 12:01
Whatever happened to just being a man and admitting to your mistakes, taking your consequences, learning from it and then not trying to do it again. No one is violating your rights - you failed to stop at a stop sign. Change out of those skinny jeans and man up.

DanaT
11-08-2012, 12:03
The same people who ***** about Cops & revenue & taxes & tax payer burden, seem to have no problem being the one to push up the cost, so long as it's in defense of their bruised ego.

I have just learned from GT conservatives and govt cheese eaters as long as it is my sacred cow, then it is OK to support something and it isnt taking govt cheese.

DanaT
11-08-2012, 12:05
Strawman

Or someone just doesnt understand those signs?

DanaT
11-08-2012, 12:07
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Zeichen_306.svg/220px-Zeichen_306.svg.png


To have that sign more than 7 people in the USA would have to understand who has priority if there is an uncontrolled intersection.

DanaT
11-08-2012, 12:09
No we are mandated to appear by a subpoena and will show up.. if he is off duty he makes more in overtime..

Our agency and court will put a deputy in jail if they dont show up for court even traffic so my guess is they will be there if you show up.


What law are you being jailed for?

What I would do if I knew this, reschedule for cops day off. Show to court. Wait to see the cop, and pay the fine.

At least it costs them more to collect than they get from me.

TBO
11-08-2012, 12:17
What law are you being jailed for?

What I would do if I knew this, reschedule for cops day off. Show to court. Wait to see the cop, and pay the fine.

At least it costs them more to collect than they get from me.

1. Contempt of court

2. You don't control the schedule, the court/prosecution does.
Some departments refuse to pay OT for off-duty Officers to appear in court & have lobbied the court to only schedule trials/hearings on the Officer's work days.
The ones that I'm familiar with are receptive to it.

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randrew379
11-08-2012, 12:28
if you didn't come to a complete stop for the required time then you are probably one of those people who keeps trying to run me over on backstreet intersections with low traffic when I cross the street on foot.

i'm happy to hear you got ticketed, the officers in my city just ignore it and being a pedestrian is more dangerous then it should be.

what you did is no different then texting or the various other things drivers do instead of paying attention to where they fling their rolling battering ram.

you already admitted you can't remember what you did, and that you were oblivious to what was around you...else you would have seen the police officer. Doubtless the judge will conclude the same when you show up and attest to this.

Unless you were planning to commit to purjury and hope for the best?

Thank you.

A fellow pedestrian

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DanaT
11-08-2012, 12:37
2. You don't control the schedule, the court/prosecution does.
Some departments refuse to pay OT for off-duty Officers to appear in court & have lobbied the court to only schedule trials/hearings on the Officer's work days.
The ones that I'm familiar with are receptive to it.

The people I know whop have rescheduled call the court and ask for a different date. The court normally gives them some dates and asks if they can make it. They never check individual schedules of officers. They also dont look who is working nights, etc.

Basically a traffic ticket (at least the one I got was a joke). The ADA offered a deal. I said no, I want a jury trial. Then he offered $20 fee (it was some handling fee) and no record if I agreed right then. The initial ticket was $40 and two points. It was about getting some money, nothing more.

He knew it was better to get $20 from me and waste no more time than try and get $40 out of me and driving record that doesnt matter much anyways.

TBO
11-08-2012, 12:45
You can ask for a jury trial for a simple traffic ticket, you're not getting it.
You'll get a court trial only (judge only, no jury).

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Glockdude1
11-08-2012, 12:49
Rolling a Stop Sign, what to do?

Stop???

:dunno:

OlliesRevenge
11-08-2012, 12:49
Whatever happened to just being a man and admitting to your mistakes, taking your consequences, learning from it and then not trying to do it again. No one is violating your rights - you failed to stop at a stop sign. Change out of those skinny jeans and man up.

Some view it just the opposite. I drive with due regard for the safety of others 100% of the time. If I get popped for a stop sign violation, it is not a matter of safety, but rather of failing to abide by some Simon Sez law. To me - "being a man" means fighting the ticket, not caving in and doing what most others would do.

"The law is a convenience created to let man live in a reasonable society. To venerate it simply because it exists is nonsense" ~ Jeff Cooper

Bren
11-08-2012, 12:50
What law are you being jailed for?
.

Contempt of Court - Failure to Appear is the common title.

What I would do if I knew this, reschedule for cops day off. Show to court. Wait to see the cop, and pay the fine.

At least it costs them more to collect than they get from me

:rofl: You may have missed the part where the cop gets paid overtime to show up on his day off. The police love going to court so much, in some departments, that I know people who have gotten in serious trouble (even a felony conviction for one) for BSing about being witnesses to arrests to try and collect more court overtime. So yeah, if you want to do a favor for the guy who wrote you the ticket, "make" him come to court.:rofl:

DanaT
11-08-2012, 12:53
You can ask for a jury trial for a simple traffic ticket, you're not getting it.
You'll get a court trial only (judge only, no jury).


The all-knowing TBO...............:rofl::rofl::rofl:

He knows more than the courts...

http://www.cityofgolden.net/government/departments-divisions/municipal-court/traffic-cases/

"You are entitled to a trial to the court on traffic and Criminal cases. If you request a jury trial for a criminal case, you must fill out a jury demand."


Just for clarification

CRS

10-05-050 Right to jury trial for traffic offenses.
(A) Any defendant charged with any traffic offense shall have the right to a jury trial upon proper perfection of a jury trial demand pursuant to the Colorado Municipal Court Rules of Procedure.

TBO
11-08-2012, 12:53
Damn it Bren, don't kill the cash cow :rant:

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DanaT
11-08-2012, 12:55
So yeah, if you want to do a favor for the guy who wrote you the ticket, "make" him come to court.:rofl:

It's about making something cost more than they get in return.

If they weren't a cash cow, then many tickets wouldn't be written.

TBO
11-08-2012, 13:01
It's about making something cost more than they get in return.

If they weren't a cash cow, then many tickets wouldn't be written.

Aren't you one who's complained in the past about waste of tax payer money (especially cops wasting it) ?
Guess you don't mind wasting it to sooth a bruised ego.

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DanaT
11-08-2012, 13:04
Aren't you one who's complained in the past about waste of tax payer money (especially cops wasting it) ?
Guess you don't mind wasting it to sooth a bruised ego.

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

A traffic ticket isnt tax payer money, if they want it from me its MY money. I can waste my money as I chose.

But I already explained it. I have adopted the GT govt cheese eating philosophy. If it is my sacred cow, then it isnt eating govt cheese.

TBO
11-08-2012, 13:08
A traffic ticket isnt tax payer money, if they want it from me its MY money. I can waste my money as I chose.

But I already explained it. I have adopted the GT govt cheese eating philosophy. If it is my sacred cow, then it isnt eating govt cheese.

The money spent to have the trial:

Prosecutor's wage
Officer's wage
Court room personal
Court clerical staff

are paid for by taxes. Your "fight the man" attitude costs tax money /resources that could be doing better things.
Selfish & childish.

jmho

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GVFlyer
11-08-2012, 13:51
Award for best fiction 2012.

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

Perhaps, but these are precisely the procedures that my attorney, Mason L. Fenton, used to preclude a conviction on my last alleged traffic violation in the Peoples Republic of California. Subsequently, I still haven't had a ticket since I was 17 years old and my insurance rates across 5 vehicles reflect that.

TBO
11-08-2012, 14:00
I think you're remembering it incorrectly.

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Mayhem like Me
11-08-2012, 14:19
My advise grab a video camera and and go to court and ask ,no, demand to see the prosecutor.
When asked to put your camera down or leave the court tell the officer that you do not wish to create joinder with him.....and ask to see his affidavit of proof.

This tactic always works.

Mayhem like Me
11-08-2012, 14:23
A traffic ticket isnt tax payer money, if they want it from me its MY money. I can waste my money as I chose.

But I already explained it. I have adopted the GT govt cheese eating philosophy. If it is my sacred cow, then it isnt eating govt cheese.

FYI...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001930/

there is help

Bren
11-08-2012, 14:27
It's about making something cost more than they get in return.

If they weren't a cash cow, then many tickets wouldn't be written.

Who is they?

The police officer doesn't get anything from writing you a ticket in any jurisdiction. He only gets money from it through overtime for going to court.

The government accounting funds that get the various fees have no idea who the guy is who wrote the ticket or whether he had to go to court. You holding out for a trial never reaches a single person who says, "hey, this guy ccost us money." It doesn't work that way. If you hold out for trial, you just become one of the average number of traffic offenders holding out for a trial that we have budgeted for. It makes no difference to anybody but the officer collecting the bonus OT.

hamster
11-08-2012, 14:34
Who is they?

The police officer doesn't get anything from writing you a ticket in any jurisdiction. He only gets money from it through overtime for going to court.


Unfortunately not true.

In some jurisdiction officers compensation / performance rating is based on achieving a quota of tickets.

Furthermore, other jurisdictions have the police department budgets directly supplemented by ticket revenue. More tickets means no layoffs this quarter, more funds for overtime, a new fancy squad car etc.

Fundamentally the same incentives that nearly any employee in any job has to achieve his/her quotas/performance goals.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/07/22/big-business.html

At least here in Ohio traffic tickets are a very big, very corrupt business.*

*Note: Please take note of the usage of actual data and citations to back up my argument.

TBO
11-08-2012, 14:42
Quotas are prohibited in most of the land. My state law has prohibited it since 1972 iirc.

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hamster
11-08-2012, 14:53
Quotas are prohibited in most of the land. My state law has prohibited it since 1972 iirc.

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"Performance Metrics" then. So long as ticket profit flows into city coffers, there is a conflict of interest by definition.

To claim this no longer exists is willful ignorance... or downright dishonesty.

http://www.woai.com/content/blogs/briancollister/story/Constables-former-employees-allege-ticket-quotas/L1aNAE76YEiAk-KzO_ShJQ.cspx

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/08/lapd_ticket_quota_traffic.php

http://old.post-gazette.com/localnews/20020512quota3.asp

It took me all of 3 seconds to find articles from three major cities from around the country where quotas are in place without being "official."

Here is one from MN (I think that is where you are right?)
http://old.post-gazette.com/localnews/20020512quota3.asp

Here is one from Officer.com from police officers themselves: http://forums.officer.com/t134122/

Ohio Copper
11-08-2012, 14:57
Unfortunately not true.

In some jurisdiction officers compensation / performance rating is based on achieving a quota of tickets.

Furthermore, other jurisdictions have the police department budgets directly supplemented by ticket revenue. More tickets means no layoffs this quarter, more funds for overtime, a new fancy squad car etc.

Fundamentally the same incentives that nearly any employee in any job has to achieve his/her quotas/performance goals.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/07/22/big-business.html

At least here in Ohio traffic tickets are a very big, very corrupt business.*

*Note: Please take note of the usage of actual data and citations to back up my argument.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Writing traffic citations is a facet of my job.

If a guy works four days a week and writes no tickets, makes no arrests, no self initiated activity and only answers calls for service, then he's not a very productive employee now is he?

686Owner
11-08-2012, 14:59
You couldn't be more wrong.

Writing traffic citations is a facet of my job.

If a guy works four days a week and writes no tickets, makes no arrests, no self initiated activity and only answers calls for service, then he's not a very productive employee now is he?

Depends on whether anyone actually broke the law.

Ohio Copper
11-08-2012, 15:01
Depends on whether anyone actually broke the law.

Yeah, you've obviously never done my job.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

hamster
11-08-2012, 15:04
You couldn't be more wrong.

Writing traffic citations is a facet of my job.

If a guy works four days a week and writes no tickets, makes no arrests, no self initiated activity and only answers calls for service, then he's not a very productive employee now is he?

Of course. Nobody is saying that traffic enforcement isn't important. But I've just found 8 links in 30 seconds to recent news stories outlining abuse.

My contention is simply that when the raw number of traffic citations is a major performance metric, there is an incentive to write more citations.

I commend any cop who arrests people for drunk driving, reckless driving, excessive speed etc.


Meanwhile, I've had no less than 5 colleagues issued citations by Woodmere, Ohio for 27 in a 25 zone.

So clearly most traffic enforcement is necessary and a boon to public safety, but you can't honestly tell me that there isn't "revenueing" going on in many jurisdictions as well.

hamster
11-08-2012, 15:05
Yeah, you've obviously never done my job.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Seriously, that argument get old. It seems nobody is allowed to make any comment about law enforcement without having worked in the field.

TBO
11-08-2012, 15:09
You're clueless (and perhaps biased).

I can tell my guys to go stop cars (enforce traffic laws) but I can't tell them to go write "x" amount of tickets.

FWIW: in monitoring officer productivity I don't care if they issue no traffic citations, but they better be out there stopping cars.

Make 10 stops in a shift (in addition to calls & following up) & I don't care if they're all warnings, you're doing your job.

Conversely, have no calls, no training, no follow ups, and no contacts during a shift? Yeah, you're gonna pull a sit down visit.

Common sense, reasonableness, they go a long way when looking at something.

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

hamster
11-08-2012, 15:14
There is absolutely nothing wrong with traffic stops and citations. My problem is when a department uses tickets as a primary source of revenue as with the now 8+ links to news stories I pointed out.

Your department appears to be a model of efficiency and stewardship of the public trust.

You're clueless (and perhaps biased).

I can tell my guys to go stop cars (enforce traffic laws) but I can't tell them to go write "x" amount of tickets.

FWIW: in monitoring officer productivity I don't care if they issue no traffic citations, but they better be out there stopping cars.

Make 10 stops in a shift (in addition to calls & following up) & I don't care if they're all warnings, you're doing your job.

Conversely, have no calls, no training, no follow ups, and no contacts during a shift? Yeah, you're gonna pull a sit down visit.

Common sense, reasonableness, they go a long way when looking at something.

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

hamster
11-08-2012, 15:15
You're clueless (and perhaps biased).

PS. I posted links to many recent news stories which mirrored exactly what I was saying. But by all means, resort to name-calling and insinuation.

sam colt
11-08-2012, 15:17
If your vehicle's weight did not settle back down on your rear tires you did not come to a complete stop. Pay the fine and save your energy for more important stuff!

OlliesRevenge
11-08-2012, 15:21
Who is they?


"They" are traffic tickets. He's talking about taking the large view, and trying to effect change by making it unprofitable for his municipality to collect revenue from traffic tickets. The usual way to do that is to fight the ticket.


The police officer doesn't get anything from writing you a ticket in any jurisdiction. He only gets money from it through overtime for going to court.


Everyone living in reality understands this.


The government accounting funds that get the various fees have no idea who the guy is who wrote the ticket or whether he had to go to court....

I agree, the local .gov very likely doesn't monitor the profit / expense of revenue streams from various traffic ticket types, nor would it care which badge # wrote the ticket. If suddenly everyone who got a stop sign ticket decided to fight it in court, it would likely take the local .gov awhile to figure it out. But they eventually would, and could potentially take action - "lets have our cops focus on something other than 'fail to stop at stop sign' tickets... 'cause so many are fighting those in court it is negative cash flow for us"

TBO
11-08-2012, 15:26
PS. I posted links to many recent news stories which mirrored exactly what I was saying. But by all means, resort to name-calling and insinuation.

Your "MN" article isn't MN, and is 10 yrs old.

Again, expecting cops to do their job isn't a quota.

Having performance guidelines isn't a quota.

FWIW: I would HOPE Troopers/Highway Patrol performance objectives specifically named traffic enforcement. It's their primary job.
Not rolling eyes, but others should get the picture (you may not).

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

hamster
11-08-2012, 15:34
Having performance guidelines isn't a quota.

Ok. Linndale ohio just happens to have LOTS and LOTS of really really bad drivers on their 1 mile stretch of highway. Drivers who magically are worse than on any other stretch of the same highway by orders of magnitude.

DanaT
11-08-2012, 15:35
You're clueless (and perhaps biased).
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Are you a broken clock? I can count on you saying that at leats twice a day.

You are simply in denial and a cop is "never worng"

Maybe, since cops are never wrong, you can explain this quote and how it is not a quota.

http://www.duiblog.com/2005/04/15/

Boulder police Chief Mark Beckner said....but said it does have "performance standards"....may include striving for numbers of arrest... (read the whole unedited second paragraph of my link...i cant quote per GT rules)

"An agency could have their contact terminated if it doesnít reach its goals, but we look at all the goals," said Mairi Nelso

Then last paragraph said the Boulder PD siad they fell short of their goal of 1000 arrests for DUI.

Seriously? How about this goal. Arrest those that are guilty. They are pissed that they may lose grant money because THERE WERENT ENOUGH DUIs.

Yes. How sad. A community doesnt have enough DUIs to get the PD grant money.

And all along I thought the reason for DUI laws was reduce the number of DUI incidents but then we learn a PD can meet its GOAL of 1000 arrests in a year.

OR maybe these police lie about having quotas that they now call performance standards.

Foxterriermom
11-08-2012, 15:39
If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters. ~Alan Simpson

The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out. ~Thomas Babington Macaulay

Character is doing the right thing even when it costs more than you want to pay. ~Michael Josephson

DanaT
11-08-2012, 15:44
If your vehicle's weight did not settle back down on your rear tires you did not come to a complete stop. Pay the fine and save your energy for more important stuff!

BZZZTTT Wrong. This is what happens when cops try to be physicists or mechanical engineers. Of course they are experts in everything.

But do your self a favor and good "spring rate", "damping", "moment of inertia", "spring-dashpot",

Here is a basic starter for you:
http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~ese112/labs/MSDSystemLecturePart%202.pdf

But lets explain in a way you might understand. The reaction happens AFTER the force. You might have a semiautomatic pistol. Changes are is a locked blow back design. Basically, you are counting of the mass or the slide and the spring rate to delay the effects of the force inside the chamber when a round was fired. If there was not a delay, what do you think would happen? Do you think the weapon would work?

A gun is a very fast system. You typical passenger car mass and spring system is a very slow system. By the time mass motion of the rear transferred the car has already been stopped.

But if you really have an idea of how to make the mass of the car and wheels to react at the same speed, you can be a really rich race car suspension designer. F1 would pay you deep into the 7 or 8 figures to show them how.

TBO
11-08-2012, 15:45
Ok. Linndale ohio just happens to have LOTS and LOTS of really really bad drivers on their 1 mile stretch of highway. Drivers who magically are worse than on any other stretch of the same highway by orders of magnitude.

I can't speak for that area.
I have areas that have higher complaints from citizens /higher crashes, and so direct officers to spend more time there enforcing traffic laws.
Makes sense, right?

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

TBO
11-08-2012, 15:53
Dana,

I KNOW you're not that naive.
You know the difference between a goal as a statement, and a goal as a rigid line in the sand.

That language is very common from Public Safety officials. It shows the public their "commitment" to combating impaired drivers.

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

DanaT
11-08-2012, 16:12
Dana,

I KNOW you're not that naive.
You know the difference between a goal as a statement, and a goal as a rigid line in the sand.

That language is very common from Public Safety officials. It shows the public their "commitment" to combating impaired drivers.

Just as committed as the speed traps along the highway.

Like this one:
http://www.speedtrap.org/view/Colorado/125496

I domnt drive there a lot, but the 10 times a year or so on a weekend morning, I see this speed trap 50% of the time. Basically, it is so common for a 1 mile stretch, you slow down and then traffic picks right back up to 10 over. It actually creates a hazzard because of motorcycle cops coming in an out of traffic, people slamming on brakes, etc.

It is not about safety.

And back to me not being that niave. You are not that naive to know if a "performance standard" is set to reach a funding level (grant) that it is not about safety, it is about money. This isnt a police only issue either. Most professions (and I would say management of public companies are some of the worst if not the worst offenders) have goals/performance standards that reward people. When people can game the system for financial gain (notice I said game..that doesnt mean illegal..it means manipulate within the rules) they tend to.

I am reading a book right now and it talks about how to set up performance standards for companies that are long term oriented and harder to game. The 4 year bonus payout by John Deere is an attractive scheme.

But to say grant money doesnt affect arrests when the goal is "1000 arrests" is false. If it were about public safety, i would have a goal like "reduce DUI related collisions, deaths and injuries by 25% annually." Quantity of arrests is irrelevant. The goal is to keep people from being injured. Measure and reward what is important.

To the LEO that said what if he only went on X amount of calls. GOOD. I would love to live in a community where the cops entry for the day was "nothing noteworthy happened"

Here is an example when I fly. People ask me how the flight was. The biggest compliment I can give is "uneventful". That means everything worked correctly.

gigab1te
11-08-2012, 16:24
My advise grab a video camera and and go to court and ask ,no, demand to see the prosecutor.
When asked to put your camera down or leave the court tell the officer that you do not wish to create joinder with him.....and ask to see his affidavit of proof.

This tactic always works.

This only works in courts of admiralty that have a fringe on the flag, and only if you first go to the recorder's office and file a lien against the judge's property and a declaration that you are a free man walking the earth.

*ASH*
11-08-2012, 16:48
I was thinking more of an ape doo-dooing on his hand to fling it at zoo visitors

You have your mental picture. I have mine.


Seriously, *ASH* you have beaten this one to death. Time to write some new material.

im working with other gter's closely with some new material . we are having start up problems and creativity issues with few members but hopefully on our new servers the bugs will worked out , pm's to those when the time arrives . and since Omama got 4 more years it could be awhile . and until then

if you can read this and its not to grainy then we are heading in right direction :rofl::rofl:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e332/KK_Koala/images2-11.jpg


why yes , yes he is





http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e332/KK_Koala/cop-hater-movie-poster-1010672237.jpg





WHAT ABOUT SPINNER RIMS ??? i mean the car or truck is stopped but rims still spin ?? is it a stop or roll ? ? lol ponder

ray9898
11-08-2012, 16:59
LOL....the quota discussions always amuse me.

What is the main complaint you always hear about 'government workers"? Lazy.
What is an aspect of just about every job in the private sector? Performance standards

It is so far out there that LE would have performance standards? You would think the public would welcome them since they demand productivity for their tax dollar. Hell, I can't drive 3 miles to the grocery store without seeing at least 2 traffic violations. Supervisors know that also so they know a guy sitting in a car for 8-12 hours a day sees several dozen of these violations. It is common sense they would have a goal for a certain number of these violations to be addressed.

PuroMexicano
11-08-2012, 17:15
I got stopped and ticketed for rolling a stop sign tonight. I probably rolled it but I honestly can't remember, but I certainly did not run through it with out slowing down at all.

My question is, if I attest it in court. Will the police officer be able to use a video against me?

If there is no video proof, is there any chance I could get out of the ticket if the cop is present?

Is there any chance the cop will not show up?

Thanks

Man up and pay up. Stop means stop, so you earned a ticket.

Patchman
11-08-2012, 17:37
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e332/KK_Koala/cop-hater-movie-poster-1010672237.jpg



Dang, but is this the grainy video of you in drags?!?!?

"I feel pretty, oh so pretty..." Not that's there's anything wrong with any of that. Really. :whistling:

*ASH*
11-08-2012, 17:38
Dang, but is this the grainy video of you in drags?!?!?

hmm:dunno: looks like one of your relatives :wavey::wavey:

rednoved
11-08-2012, 18:05
Pay it. Learn to stop long enough to know if you actually came to a stop.

larry_minn
11-08-2012, 18:07
Thankfully most Officers in my area have some common sense. Folks who slow down/look/go thru get ignored. Often I can see half mile/plus at stop signs. (that used to be YIELD signs) Seems the state required all yield signs be replaced with new reflective STOP signs. Not that there has ever been a problem..

In populated areas is one thing. In sticks why bother?

skeeter7
11-08-2012, 18:10
Where is that? I am sure the ticket comes back of you get another violation within 3 years, right?


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)


I'm in Rhode Island. No the ticket that gets dismissed gets thrown out completely. If you get a violation within 3 years of your last, then you must pay on that violation if found guilty.

Patchman
11-08-2012, 18:52
hmm:dunno: looks like one of your relatives :wavey::wavey:


Not even the same continent close.

"I feel pretty, oh so pretty... the video is grainy, oh so grainy..."

Ftttu
11-08-2012, 18:54
To add to my response, our agency's patrol units have either a VHS system or a hard drive system. When a VHS tape is full, it is stored in a secure location-accessed only by supervisors. The tapes are erased and reused after 90 days. When a hard drive is full, footage over 90 days old is erased unless the sypervisor uploads a portion of the old footage for review as per policy.

I don't know what case I have when I get a traffic court notice so I have no idea what footage is pertinent to the case. I could contact the court for case information for a better prosecution, but I've never done it or have been asked and/or subpoenaed to do so. That normally happens automatically for higher level cases like DWI.

Patchman
11-08-2012, 18:58
Often I can see half mile/plus at stop signs. (that used to be YIELD signs) Seems the state required all yield signs be replaced with new reflective STOP signs. Not that there has ever been a problem.

In populated areas is one thing. In sticks why bother?

This is actually a real problem. In places where a "Yield" or a "Stop" sign had been for the past 40-50 years, are now replaced by Stop signs or red lights. As a result, traffic is backed up for blocks.

*ASH*
11-08-2012, 18:59
Not even the same continent close.

"I feel pretty, oh so pretty... the video is grainy, oh so grainy..."

you look so pretty too . :kiss::kiss:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e332/KK_Koala/images-13.jpg

GVFlyer
11-08-2012, 18:59
You're clueless (and perhaps biased).

I can tell my guys to go stop cars (enforce traffic laws) but I can't tell them to go write "x" amount of tickets.

FWIW: in monitoring officer productivity I don't care if they issue no traffic citations, but they better be out there stopping cars.

Make 10 stops in a shift (in addition to calls & following up) & I don't care if they're all warnings, you're doing your job.

Conversely, have no calls, no training, no follow ups, and no contacts during a shift? Yeah, you're gonna pull a sit down visit.

Common sense, reasonableness, they go a long way when looking at something.

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

Re: Mr. Fenton, Esq., you could be right. I was there at each of the three times my case came before the court, but so was he and what I reported was my lay interpretation of what he was doing.

Concerning quotas, I know it's anecdotal, but I have a friend who is a reserve army officer and also a CHP officer. He has told me that while the California Highway Patrol has no quota, if he doesn't write what is viewed to be the average number of tickets for his patrol area, he is counseled for "not being observant enough."

Ftttu
11-08-2012, 19:01
....plus, if I have video footage I want to use for evidentiary purposes, I remove the VHS and submit it into evidence or remove the hard drive where I burn the footage onto a DVD and turn it in to evidence. Because VHS is removed, there may be traffic violation footage on there which may be pertinent to a traffic violation case which is not readily available for traffic court presentation.

Dragoon44
11-08-2012, 19:08
The all-knowing TBO...............:rofl::rofl::rofl:

He knows more than the courts...

http://www.cityofgolden.net/government/departments-divisions/municipal-court/traffic-cases/

"You are entitled to a trial to the court on traffic and Criminal cases. If you request a jury trial for a criminal case, you must fill out a jury demand."


Just for clarification

CRS

10-05-050 Right to jury trial for traffic offenses.
(A) Any defendant charged with any traffic offense shall have the right to a jury trial upon proper perfection of a jury trial demand pursuant to the Colorado Municipal Court Rules of Procedure.


And as usual TBO is right and Dana is wrong, should have paid attention to what TBO said, "Simple traffic ticket".

Simple traffic tickets or "infractions are not criminal offense and do not carry the possibility of imprisonment. That being the case there is no right to a Jury trial.

http://www.dmv.org/co-colorado/traffic-ticket-faq.php

You cannot have a jury trial if youíre charged with an infraction. If, however, youíre charged with a traffic offense, the option is yours to submit a jury trial request.

http://www.traffic-tickets-colorado-springs.com/Infraction-Offense.htm

Decriminalization. Minor traffic violations were previously criminal offenses in which the defendant could request a jury trial. In the 1980's the county courts across the state became inundated with DUI, DEAC or DWAI cases and the courts simply didn't have the time to conduct jury trials on speeding tickets and other minor violations.

The State of Colorado therefore decriminalized minor traffic violations, and pursuant to CRS 16-6-501 the Supreme Court established the Colorado Rules of Traffic Infractions - CRTI. Since the possibility of jail was eliminated, criminal jury trials were no longer a matter of right. Procedures were enacted to hear contested cases before a magistrate - CRTI 7(a). If a traffic offense is charged with a traffic infraction, the case is heard before a judge under the rules of criminal procedure.

No Constitutional Right to Jury Trial. Since the decriminalization of minor traffic offenses, traffic infractions are civil matters and are not punishable by imprisonment. Class A traffic infractions are subject to a penalty of from five to one hundred dollars and assessment of points defendant cannot request a jury trial, cf. C.R.T.I. 11. Defendant alleged a 4 point traffic infraction and a 6 point traffic offense had "substantially the same penalties." He contended that the statutory classification was unreasonable and therefore denied him equal protection. The court ruled the decision to treat higher rates of speeding as more serious and as involving criminal conduct does not violate equal protection. Determining where and how to draw the line between criminal and non-criminal conduct is within the legislature's discretion. Because the maximum penalty for a traffic infraction is $100, an individual charged with a traffic infraction does not have a constitutional right to a jury trial. People v. Lewis, 745 P.2d 668 (Colo. 1987); see Duncan v. Louisiana, 391 U.S. 145, 159 (1968); (right to jury trial for those charged with "serious crimes" but not for those charged with "petty offenses"); Austin v. City and County of Denver, 170 Colo. 448, 456, 462 P.2d 600, 604 (1969) (in absence of contrary legislative mandate, petty offenses not requiring jury trial are those for which maximum penalty does not exceed $500 and six months' imprisonment).

Patchman
11-08-2012, 19:16
you look so pretty too . :kiss::kiss:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e332/KK_Koala/images-13.jpg

That picture is a little grainy. Is that you in the middle?

"I feel pretty... oh so pretty... The pix is grainy, oh so grainy..."

Ftttu
11-08-2012, 19:28
And as usual TBO is right and Dana is wrong, should have paid attention to what TBO said, "Simple traffic ticket".

Simple traffic tickets or "infractions are not criminal offense and do not carry the possibility of imprisonment. That being the case there is no right to a Jury trial.

http://www.dmv.org/co-colorado/traffic-ticket-faq.php



http://www.traffic-tickets-colorado-springs.com/Infraction-Offense.htm

Here in Texas, we have right to appeal a traffic violation guilty verdict up to a county court. I've never had any on my citations ever get bumped up to a county court for appeal, but I've seen other officer's cases go.

*ASH*
11-08-2012, 19:31
That picture is a little grainy. Is that you in the middle?

"I feel pretty... oh so pretty... The pix is grainy, oh so grainy..."

hehehehe i love it . :tbo::kiss::kiss: i cant tell really , it is really grainy , it could/might be your wife . hard to tell

Dragoon44
11-08-2012, 19:41
Here in Texas, we have right to appeal a traffic violation guilty verdict up to a county court. I've never had any on my citations ever get bumped up to a county court for appeal, but I've seen other officer's cases go.

That is because in Texas moving violations are criminal violations
By Texas Statute they are class C misdemeanors.

In states that have decriminalized some traffic violations making them infractions (civil not criminal) rather than criminal offenses there is no right to a jury trial.

There was a time in this country when being stopped for ANY moving violation required you be taken before a judge or justice of the peace.

nikerret
11-08-2012, 19:48
If your vehicle's weight did not settle back down on your rear tires you did not come to a complete stop.

All other pissing matches aside, this statement is incorrect. There is a time after moving forward, at the time of stopping, that nothing is moving, then, if no other force is exerted, the mass will move rearward over a more stationary point.

I often make complete stops on my motorcycle without putting my feet down. Can I balance like that for much more than a second, no, but that's not necessary. All I must accomplish to properly stop is to have the vehicle not moving forward (in any capacity) where the rubber meets the road.

hamster
11-08-2012, 19:51
http://blog.bigmouthmedia.com/files/2012/09/Stop-Hammer-Time.jpg

Patchman
11-08-2012, 20:23
hehehehe i love it . :tbo::kiss::kiss: i cant tell really , it is really grainy , it could/might be your wife . hard to tell

Oh I love it also.

"I feel pretty... *ASH* so pretty..."

*ASH*
11-08-2012, 20:46
Oh I love it also.

"I feel pretty... *ASH* so pretty..."

easy boy ,, getting a little to close touchy /feely :wavey::kiss::kiss::kiss::aodnsb::aodnsb:

you best not chence out on the reach around roflmao



niters , time for bed ,wanna tuck me in yawn

Patchman
11-08-2012, 21:06
easy boy ,, getting a little to close touchy /feely :wavey::kiss::kiss::kiss::aodnsb::aodnsb:

you best not chence out on the reach around roflmao



niters , time for bed ,wanna tuck me in yawn

Good, good, I see you're taking this in good humor. I'm glad because this is all in fun. I know you have a history of snitching to the mods, so I wouldn't want our exchanges to be misunderstood.

Feel free to PM me.

Shinytop
11-08-2012, 21:21
The whole thing is simple. Everyday, most of us are going over the speed limit at some point and or running yellow/red lights when we could have stopped. You all know it. Then when you get ticketed you want to whine about how to get out of it. Don't do the crime (or infraction if you prefer) if you don't want to occasionally have to pay. Really simple. Taking the time of officers and courts is ridiculous. The speed traps I know of don't stop those obeying the law. That famous one in Ohio, bet they take advantage of lowering speed limits by a lot and suddenly. Unfair? Ya, so what? Be observant and obey the laws. I don't always but when caught I pay up or, as in the last time I was ticketed, take the online course, pay the fine and be glad you aren't ticketed every time.

Children.

frizz
11-09-2012, 00:04
I always thought STOP was an acronym - Slow To Own Preference. :poke:

:tongueout:

<ducks and runs>

-Pat

(And FWIW, I stop)

I've always heard it was Skid Tires On Pavement, but what do I know?

frizz
11-09-2012, 00:17
FYI...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001930/

there is help
I knew that was going to be there, but I still gave myself a coughing fit from laughing at it.

frizz
11-09-2012, 00:32
Dang, but is this the grainy video of you in drags?!?!?

"I feel pretty, oh so pretty..." Not that's there's anything wrong with any of that. Really. :whistling:

:rofl: Stop!


Keep it up, and I'll find a way to work a "morbidly obese" line in somewhere?

frizz
11-09-2012, 00:41
This is actually a real problem. In places where a "Yield" or a "Stop" sign had been for the past 40-50 years, are now replaced by Stop signs or red lights. As a result, traffic is backed up for blocks.

It is one of the things that can happen when the village idiot gets a job in traffic engineering. Another symptom is three sets of traffic lights on a 150-foot stretch of street.

frizz
11-09-2012, 01:04
Here in Texas, we have right to appeal a traffic violation guilty verdict up to a county court. I've never had any on my citations ever get bumped up to a county court for appeal, but I've seen other officer's cases go.
Alabama is the same way. You get a bench trial in the Municipal or District Court, but guilty verdicts can be appealed to the Circuit Court for a trial de novo with a jury option.

Obviously, this is a state-specific question of whether or not you are given jury for a ticket since the US Constitution doesn't require it in these cases.

frizz
11-09-2012, 01:07
hehehehe i love it . :tbo::kiss::kiss: i cant tell really , it is really grainy , it could/might be your wife . hard to tell
Have you considered hiring a comic? Patchman is writing much better stuff, and he's doing it on the fly.

The Machinist
11-09-2012, 06:14
http://blog.bigmouthmedia.com/files/2012/09/Stop-Hammer-Time.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xIU3EXeUSH8/T1TmzRG1w1I/AAAAAAAAB3A/xKjTjI5LnN0/s1600/halt+hammerzeit.jpg

JuneyBooney
11-09-2012, 12:34
I got stopped and ticketed for rolling a stop sign tonight. I probably rolled it but I honestly can't remember, but I certainly did not run through it with out slowing down at all.

My question is, if I attest it in court. Will the police officer be able to use a video against me?

If there is no video proof, is there any chance I could get out of the ticket if the cop is present?

Is there any chance the cop will not show up?

Thanks

Edit: Thank you to everyone who responded seriously without getting up on your soapbox. I appreciate it, you guys are super cool :)

To all the finger pointing dorks out there, shut up. Please find something more important to rant about than minor traffic violations.

Wear a suit, go to court and plead not guilty. The chances are that either the cop won't show or the judge will lower the fine and no points depending on your state.

Rolling stops are legal in some states but in other states and areas the cops can be real anal about it because the ticket is about 90.00. Good luck.

Bruce M
11-09-2012, 12:50
...Rolling stops are legal in some states but in other states and areas the cops can be real anal about it because the ticket is about 90.00. Good luck.
Here it is more like $179. After about the third or eighth time one goes to a crash in which a bicyclist or pedestrian (often a child walking to school) rides or walks approaching the car from the right side and the driver of the car slows down and looks left but does not look to right becase they are only concerned about the cars and not the other stuff that shares the roadway it can be amazingly easy to have little or no sympathy for a driver who slows down and does not stop. Sometimes it really isn't about the $90 or $179.

BSA70
11-09-2012, 14:00
"Rolling stops are legal in some states but in other states and areas the cops can be real anal about it because the ticket is about 90.00. Good luck. "

What states make it legal to run a stop sign? I thought stop meant stop, not yield.

In my state it's about $230 plus 3 insurance points. Very expensive!

Ohio Copper
11-09-2012, 14:05
Wear a suit, go to court and plead not guilty. The chances are that either the cop won't show or the judge will lower the fine and no points depending on your state.

Rolling stops are legal in some states but in other states and areas the cops can be real anal about it because the ticket is about 90.00. Good luck.

This is terrible advice. I would not advise anyone to follow this, at all.


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OlliesRevenge
11-09-2012, 14:22
...it can be amazingly easy to have little or no sympathy for a driver who slows down and does not stop. Sometimes it really isn't about the $90 or $179.

There are crosswalks & pedestrians at traffic circle intersections w/ yield signs.

I respond to plenty of auto vs ped. accidents as well, and I have given care to busted up kids... that said... Accident prevention is about situational awareness, not playing the Simon Sez game of coming to a complete stop. This is true whether there is a yield sign or a red stop sign on the corner.

Fact is... sometimes coming to a complete stop is absolutely warranted, sometimes it's not... & whether or not a complete stop is warranted doesn't depend on there being a big red octagonal sign on the corner.

Shinytop
11-09-2012, 14:59
One thought on where leo's are watching stop signs. Often it is because complaints have come from citizens. They need to be seen responding to complaints.

ray9898
11-09-2012, 15:11
One thought on where leo's are watching stop signs. Often it is because complaints have come from citizens. They need to be seen responding to complaints.

It is without doubt the top non-emergency citizen complaint my agency receives, at least double or triple of the next closest.

FLGatorFan
11-09-2012, 16:25
It is without doubt the top non-emergency citizen complaint my agency receives, at least double or triple of the next closest.

Some citizens are really stupid. It's gotten to the point where people are so used to seeing stop signs everywhere that they even stop at imaginary ones thereby causing traffic problems.

ray9898
11-09-2012, 17:42
Some citizens are really stupid. It's gotten to the point where people are so used to seeing stop signs everywhere that they even stop at imaginary ones thereby causing traffic problems.

...and some are not. I have responded to many of these complaints and while some are petty at others I have been appalled at the poor careless driving I witnessed en masse.

CAcop
11-09-2012, 17:49
It is one of the things that can happen when the village idiot gets a job in traffic engineering. Another symptom is three sets of traffic lights on a 150-foot stretch of street.

In my home town there was a witch who lived at an intersection on a pretty busy road. There were crosswalks with lights a few hundred yard of where she lived. Yet she complained that she needed one. One of the bliss ninny soccer moms on the city counsel ws her friend and got one put in place for her. She sold her house within a year of that stoplight going in.

BTW my home town is Stockton and they went bankrupt recently. Can you guess why based on my story?

Warp
11-09-2012, 17:53
Wear a suit, go to court and plead not guilty. The chances are that either the cop won't show or the judge will lower the fine and no points depending on your state.

Rolling stops are legal in some states but in other states and areas the cops can be real anal about it because the ticket is about 90.00. Good luck.

Citation?

blastfact
11-09-2012, 18:57
It sounds like the OP does not have a clean driving record. Always come to a complete stop at a stop sign. This can be judged by the weight shift of the auto. I am now seeing weekly stop sign violation's,,,, the rolling stop's turn into T-Bone Death. Be it the stop sign at the corner of my home, the one down the street. Or the section line roads that cross hwy's all over Oklahoma. Folks roll or blow stop signs or traffic signals and people die. Be them sober or drunk. I see it every darn week as a commuter.

I ask? Why can't the average idiot American obey the most basic of traffic laws? They speed, blow traffic control, don't have a clue how to use there signals. Muchless there high/low beams. And it would seem merging and tailgating should be jail time. Folks can't merge worth a crap onto a freeway. They don't know how to make a pass on two lane roads. The whole damn world is to slow down or stop for them. A construction zone means what?

It's to the point I have more respect and trust and drunk or drug driver more than a sober idiot driver! You can see a drunk ahead, behind, or to the side. But a sober idiot you can't see. And they kill more and cause more damage than drunks and druggies....

Those damn sober drivers that swear they didn't roll a stop sign kill more than the blacked out drunks.... And then wonder how they can get it off there record or get a break.....

ray9898
11-09-2012, 19:10
It sounds like the OP does not have a clean driving record. Always come to a complete stop at a stop sign. This can be judged by the weight shift of the auto. I am now seeing weekly stop sign violation's,,,, the rolling stop's turn into T-Bone Death. Be it the stop sign at the corner of my home, the one down the street. Or the section line roads that cross hwy's all over Oklahoma. Folks roll or blow stop signs or traffic signals and people die. Be them sober or drunk. I see it every darn week as a commuter.

I ask? Why can't the average idiot American obey the most basic of traffic laws? They speed, blow traffic control, don't have a clue how to use there signals. Muchless there high/low beams. And it would seem merging and tailgating should be jail time. Folks can't merge worth a crap onto a freeway. They don't know how to make a pass on two lane roads. The whole damn world is to slow down or stop for them. A construction zone means what?



Wrong place for that train of thought. GT believes that kind of behavior on the roads does not exist and cops make stuff up to fill their 'quota'.

Bruce M
11-09-2012, 19:19
There are crosswalks & pedestrians at traffic circle intersections w/ yield signs.

I respond to plenty of auto vs ped. accidents as well, and I have given care to busted up kids... that said... Accident prevention is about situational awareness, not playing the Simon Sez game of coming to a complete stop. This is true whether there is a yield sign or a red stop sign on the corner.

Fact is... sometimes coming to a complete stop is absolutely warranted, sometimes it's not... & whether or not a complete stop is warranted doesn't depend on there being a big red octagonal sign on the corner.

I agree that sometimes coming to a complete stop is not necessary. But my interest goes up when a driver either does not see the marked cruiser when it is clearly visible from the stop sign or perhaps does see it but just ignores the presence.

*ASH*
11-09-2012, 19:23
Have you considered hiring a comic? Patchman is writing much better stuff, and he's doing it on the fly.

ahh i see yall are BB'S :rofl::rofl: . na we all have good fun and games robert .

robin303
11-09-2012, 19:35
Pay the damn ticket and move on.:dunno:

CaptCave
11-09-2012, 19:54
I got stopped and ticketed for rolling a stop sign tonight. I probably rolled it but I honestly can't remember, but I certainly did not run through it with out slowing down at all.

My question is, if I attest it in court. Will the police officer be able to use a video against me?

If there is no video proof, is there any chance I could get out of the ticket if the cop is present?

Is there any chance the cop will not show up?

Thanks

Edit: Thank you to everyone who responded seriously without getting up on your soapbox. I appreciate it, you guys are super cool :)

To all the finger pointing dorks out there, shut up. Please find something more important to rant about than minor traffic violations.

I doubt you ever get to see a judge, around here you'd be in traffic court with an ADA and a clerk.

Save the day off from work and just pay the fine.

OlliesRevenge
11-09-2012, 19:58
... my interest goes up when a driver either does not see the marked cruiser when it is clearly visible from the stop sign or perhaps does see it but just ignores the presence.

I guess you got me there. Failing to notice the marked cruiser nearby would indeed indicate a severe lack of situational awareness... and rolling through even if they did notice would indicate total arrogance.

Even for all my libertarian / civil disobedience bravado, I don't deliberately try to antagonize LEO's. My guess is that, even in his day, H.D. Thoreau didn't go out of his way to escalate trouble with any particular Sheriff either.

But I will always think outside the box society tries to construct around us.

blastfact
11-09-2012, 20:26
Wrong place for that train of thought. GT believes that kind of behavior on the roads does not exist and cops make stuff up to fill their 'quota'.

ray,,, it's so damn easy to obey basic traffic laws. They are written at a 3rd grade level.

CBennett
11-09-2012, 20:33
you did something illegal and got caught. Man up learn your lesson pay the fine or what ever and drive on.

i can respect a person who knows they did something wrong and mans up and pays the price to fix/rectify the situation. I have little to no respect for ones that know they did something wrong and then try to get out of it instead of just face the fact they screwed up.

steveksux
11-10-2012, 04:52
I got stopped and ticketed for rolling a stop sign tonight. I probably rolled it but I honestly can't remember, but I certainly did not run through it with out slowing down at all.

My question is, if I attest it in court. Will the police officer be able to use a video against me?

If there is no video proof, is there any chance I could get out of the ticket if the cop is present?

Is there any chance the cop will not show up?

ThanksI think you have the right idea.

Best bet is to attest to it in court. From what I understand that's the quickest way to get out of court.

The ones that contest it in court really slow the process down.

Randy

TBO
11-10-2012, 05:46
Revenue! :rant:

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

frizz
11-10-2012, 05:55
Revenue! :rant:


Granny: Jed! Fetch my shootin' iron! The revenooers are after my still!

Jed: (admonishing tone of voice) Granny...!

TBO
11-10-2012, 06:55
:perfect10:

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mknpwr
11-10-2012, 08:56
I guess you want the winning lottery numbers too?:rofl:

Pay the ticket, then start stopping at stop signs.

..

This.

I don't get the mentality of people. You got caught doing something against the law and were ticketed for it. I've done the same thing, speeding, once in a construction zone and twice on the highway in regular traffic. Paid the fine and moved on with my life, why do some people insist on making it so difficult? I once got 5 tickets in one stop. I was coming back to the Navy base in Pearl Harbor, parked my motorcycle off base and started walking through the front gate when the gate guard stopped me and informed me that he observed me riding my motorcycle without proper safety gear on Federal property, license and registration please. All said and done I got tickets for no safety gear, no registration, no license, no insurance, and expired safety check. I had literally just picked the bike up from the dealer after having the carbs rebuilt, knew it wasn't legal and was on my way to my barracks room to get my cover and cable lock to park it at a friends house until I could get it legal. No insurance ticket in Hawaii at the time was $1000.00 fine first offense. Ended up going to federal court, ended up with a fine of $75 total as they dismissed most of the charges after explaining what happened. I was wrong, knew it and did it anyway, got caught and took my punishment, I didn't go looking for a way out of it, didn't lawyer up, showed up said my piece and paid my fine. Moved on. They cut me a break, big time but I didn't expect it.

Aux Bear
11-10-2012, 09:00
If your vehicle's weight did not settle back down on your rear tires you did not come to a complete stop. Pay the fine and save your energy for more important stuff!

That is bogus info. Stopping transfers vehicle weight forward (rear deck rises), to either fully stop forward motion OR release of the braking action will cause the rear deck to settle. Acceleration also causes the read deck to settle. Wheels coming to a complete stop, less sliding of course, is the method we're trained to use.

ps: we used to have incentive/required "quotas", no more, now we can write as many as we want!

Bruce M
11-10-2012, 10:28
Granny: Jed! Fetch my shootin' iron! The revenooers are after my still!

Jed: (admonishing tone of voice) Granny...!
:rofl::rofl:

The Machinist
11-10-2012, 12:12
you did something illegal and got caught. Man up learn your lesson pay the fine or what ever and drive on.

i can respect a person who knows they did something wrong and mans up and pays the price to fix/rectify the situation. I have little to no respect for ones that know they did something wrong and then try to get out of it instead of just face the fact they screwed up.
Rolling through a stop sign when you're the only one at the intersection is not wrong.

Kingarthurhk
11-10-2012, 12:17
Please do not be "that guy" who admits the violation then starts to argue with the judge that the law should not apply to him.

The Big Bang Theory - Sheldon goes to Jail. - YouTube

:rofl:

Glockworks
11-10-2012, 13:45
:wow: :rofl:

Sharky7
11-10-2012, 14:19
Rolling through a stop sign when you're the only one at the intersection is not wrong.

Take a guess how many intersection related stop sign accidents list that as an excuse.

"I didn't see anyone else, so I just rolled through the stop...."

"I didn't see the other car..."

"I didn't see the guy on the bike..."

"I didn't see the kid crossing the street..."

It's ironic that some people feel that they should not have to obey laws - but whenever others are dealing with them THEY have to obey all laws.

Dragoon44
11-10-2012, 14:28
Rolling through a stop sign when you're the only one at the intersection is not wrong.

Umm wrong, if rolling a stop sign is illegal it's wrong.

And that is besides the point that plenty of people have ended up injured, maimed or dead because some guy thought he was the only one at the intersection.

I have been present on more than one occasion and witnessed people die as a result of their ( or anothers) erroneous belief that rolling the stop sign was ok.

Ohio Copper
11-10-2012, 15:44
Rolling through a stop sign when you're the only one at the intersection is not wrong.

Tell that to a guy I went to school with who is a quadriplegic because someone else thought they were the only one.

Dick.


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tantrix
11-10-2012, 15:54
I got stopped and ticketed for rolling a stop sign tonight. I probably rolled it but I honestly can't remember, but I certainly did not run through it with out slowing down at all.

My question is, if I attest it in court. Will the police officer be able to use a video against me?

If there is no video proof, is there any chance I could get out of the ticket if the cop is present?

Is there any chance the cop will not show up?

Thanks

Edit: Thank you to everyone who responded seriously without getting up on your soapbox. I appreciate it, you guys are super cool :)

To all the finger pointing dorks out there, shut up. Please find something more important to rant about than minor traffic violations.


If there is a chance that you did stop completely, nothing wrong with contesting it. If you don't challenge it in court, at the very least call the DA and they will usually work with you, especially if you have a clean driving record.

TBO
11-10-2012, 16:33
If there is a chance that you did stop completely, nothing wrong with contesting it. If you don't challenge it in court, at the very least call the DA and they will usually work with you, especially if you have a clean driving record.

Based upon the OP, what would an experienced LE Officer concluded on the likelihood of the OP prevailing in an honest application of facts before a judge?

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

Bruce M
11-10-2012, 17:03
Rolling through a stop sign when you're the only one at the intersection is not wrong.

In theory I would agree with you. In practice however there is a substantial difference between thinking no one else is at the stop and there actually being no one at the stop sign. For instance about anyone who gets a citation for running a top sign was perhaps not quite as alone as they had thought.

Take a guess how many intersection related stop sign accidents list that as an excuse.

"I didn't see anyone else, so I just rolled through the stop...."

"I didn't see the other car..."

"I didn't see the guy on the bike..."

"I didn't see the kid crossing the street..."

It's ironic that some people feel that they should not have to obey laws - but whenever others are dealing with them THEY have to obey all laws.

Umm wrong, if rolling a stop sign is illegal it's wrong.

And that is besides the point that plenty of people have ended up injured, maimed or dead because some guy thought he was the only one at the intersection.

I have been present on more than one occasion and witnessed people die as a result of their ( or anothers) erroneous belief that rolling the stop sign was ok.

It is alot more wrong (if there is a continuum) when someone else is there. Apparently often enough someone else is there when the driver thinks no one else is there such that the most prudent course of action statistically is to always stop.

wuvmyglock
11-10-2012, 19:03
Breaking the law and expecting no consequences?? Are you a politician??

Dragoon44
11-10-2012, 19:22
It is alot more wrong (if there is a continuum) when someone else is there. Apparently often enough someone else is there when the driver thinks no one else is there such that the most prudent course of action statistically is to always stop.

And of course that is just the point with the "if no one is there way of thinking. Any officer who has had to work accidents has worked more than he can remember caused by people that didn't think any other vehicle was coming.

It's like picking up a gun you THINK is unloaded and pulling the trigger while it's pointed at the wall of your neighbors apartment because you think it's unloaded and you think they are not home anyway.

rahrah12
11-12-2012, 07:37
best bet is to probably try and get it reduced...

rhikdavis
11-12-2012, 08:03
Why aren't you willing to accept the responsibility for your actions?

It's the new American way.

The Prez may invite him for a beer.

OlliesRevenge
11-12-2012, 09:30
OP, 1st sit down, hold your head in your hands and contemplate what you have done! Take responsibility for your actions! Feel that $&*%.

Feel it!

Now sit up straight and take some responsibility for your personal finances, 'cause you can reduce your long term expenses on car insurance by fighting the ticket. Pick up your phone, and call an attorney to fight the ticket. You ran a stop sign -- and money will be paid to someone, whether it be your local government or your local attorney doesn't really matter a whole lot does it? In either case you are being "punished" for your wrongdoing by having money extracted from your bank account -- do you only get credit for "taking responsibility for your actions" when that money flows to the local .gov? Seems a bit random doesn't it? Why not send the money to the Jehovah’s Witnesses' or buy the boys a round of drinks with it? Seems just as random as giving it to .gov to me.

If you really think about it, the only way to not "take responsibility for your actions" would be to simply ignore the ticket and allow it to go to a warrant / collections.

tantrix
11-12-2012, 14:34
And of course that is just the point with the "if no one is there way of thinking. Any officer who has had to work accidents has worked more than he can remember caused by people that didn't think any other vehicle was coming.

It's like picking up a gun you THINK is unloaded and pulling the trigger while it's pointed at the wall of your neighbors apartment because you think it's unloaded and you think they are not home anyway.

You and I both know plenty of LEO's talk and txt while driving, run yellow lights and do plenty of California stops at intersections...all of which they cite other drivers for.


I wouldn't climb to high on that pedestal...just sayin'.

DanaT
11-12-2012, 14:42
You and I both know plenty of LEO's talk and txt while driving, run yellow lights and do plenty of California stops at intersections...all of which they cite other drivers for.


I wouldn't climb to high on that pedestal...just sayin'.

Oh no you didnt!


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 14:49
You and I both know plenty of LEO's talk and txt while driving, run yellow lights and do plenty of California stops at intersections...all of which they cite other drivers for.


I wouldn't climb to high on that pedestal...just sayin'.

For what it is worth, while on patrol, I am exempt from such things. Yes, some I must have cause but some, I am flat out exempt. (I must always exercise due regard and I do.)

You dont have a clue why Officers are doing the things they are doing....and if I stop someone for doing those same things, and they can articulate (and convince me) they are doing them for many of the reasons that make it valid for me to do it, it is very unlikely that I will cite them.

The very nature of being on patrol gives rise to constant emergencies and exigent circumstances. Most people only face such things a few times in a lifetime...we deal with all those "few times in a life time" times the number of people in our area.

DanaT
11-12-2012, 15:01
Rabbi by being "exempt" and stating why it is ok for cops to do it, are you talking about using a mobile phone while driving.

The nhtsa estimates that in 2009 distracted driving from phones were the cause of 16% of traffic fatalities. What circumstances do you need you phone for that your radio can't handle?

If distracted driving is acceptable while on duty, how about driving while under the influence?


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Mayhem like Me
11-12-2012, 15:07
Rabbi by being "exempt" and stating why it is ok for cops to do it, are you talking about using a mobile phone while driving.

The nhtsa estimates that in 2009 distracted driving from phones were the cause of 16% of traffic fatalities. What circumstances do you need you phone for that your radio can't handle?

If distracted driving is acceptable while on duty, how about driving while under the influence?


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

The law as written has the exemptions..

You want to find out what we need the phone for...

Go sign up...much is to do for safety and security of private information.

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TBO
11-12-2012, 15:07
If there is a chance that you did stop completely, nothing wrong with contesting it. If you don't challenge it in court, at the very least call the DA and they will usually work with you, especially if you have a clean driving record.

Based upon the Original Post, what would an experienced LE Officer concluded on the likelihood of the OP prevailing in an honest application of facts before a judge?

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

tantrix
11-12-2012, 15:11
You dont have a clue why Officers are doing the things they are doing....

I can tell you haven't been a LEO for long.


What you just said is basically: "I can do it because I'm LE, but if regular Joe's do it, they must convince me they had a valid reason."

In reality...there is no reason for LE pull a rolling stop, and if you must, that is what running code is for.


The fact is, officers do it all the time, and they do it because they can...that's how the public sees it, and they're exactly right.



Based upon the Original Post, what would an experienced LE Officer concluded on the likelihood of the OP prevailing in an honest application of facts before a judge?

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

It doesn't matter...the OP can still challenge it. That was my point the entire time. And, even if he doesn't bring it to court, he can call the DA and see if it can be reduced.

I'll tell you right now you can bring a moving violation ticket just as the OP has to an attorney, and have it reduced to something as minor as driving without your license present in the vehicle which amounts to a small fine and no reporting to your insurance company.

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 15:12
Rabbi by being "exempt" and stating why it is ok for cops to do it, are you talking about using a mobile phone while driving.

The nhtsa estimates that in 2009 distracted driving from phones were the cause of 16% of traffic fatalities. What circumstances do you need you phone for that your radio can't handle?

If distracted driving is acceptable while on duty, how about driving while under the influence?


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

There are any number of situations where you would use your phone instead of your radio. For example, the radio ISNT WORKING. There are dead spaces everywhere, there is static/noise, dead radios, weather, other traffic, hell, sometimes, because of an emergency, you are not allowed to use the radio. Radios also dont work very well inside of a lot of structures. A radio is NOT a magic panacea to all things communication. On the other end of that is, there are things you dont want to put out over the air and a lot of other reasons in between.

In Texas this is non sequitur and not illustrative of the issue as talking on a cell phone is, in most cases, not illegal in Texas.

TBO
11-12-2012, 15:14
Rabbi by being "exempt" and stating why it is ok for cops to do it, are you talking about using a mobile phone while driving.

The nhtsa estimates that in 2009 distracted driving from phones were the cause of 16% of traffic fatalities. What circumstances do you need you phone for that your radio can't handle?

If distracted driving is acceptable while on duty, how about driving while under the influence?


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
As is continually showcased there is much you don't know about Law Enforcement, and even more you have an improper/poor understanding of.

I'll link just one example of information/communication that LE in a squad equipped with a radio may find need of cell phone/txt use.

http://www.sos.state.mn.us/index.aspx?page=1680

http://www.ncdoj.gov/Help-for-Victims/Domestic-Violence-Victims.aspx

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/164064NCJRS.pdf

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 15:17
I can tell you haven't been a LEO for long.


What you just said is basically: "I can do it because I'm LE, but if regular Joe's do it, they must convince me they had a valid reason."

In reality...there is no reason for LE pull a rolling stop, and if you must, that is what running code is for.


The fact is, officers do it all the time, and they do it because they can...that's how the public sees it, and they're exactly right.

I can tell you are not an LE at all and dont have a clue what you are talking about.

You are flat out wrong. As in, just posted something that is factually, and provable, wrong.

An LEO can do a lot of things that others would have to justify (like speeding)...and you know what, so can a Doctor, a Plumber, a Hair Stylist.....

As for rolling a stop sign...really? Are you that uninformed on the issue that you cant even imagine a time where LEO need to run silent and run fast?

And again, you dont have a clue why an LEO is doing the things they are doing. As is your habit, here and in other threads, you are convinced that what you see is how it is. You are wrong...and a fool. What you see is just and only that. You dont have the rest of the info.

DanaT
11-12-2012, 15:18
As is continually showcased there is much you don't know about Law Enforcement, and even more you have an improper/poor understanding of.

I'll link just one example of information/communication that LE in a squad equipped with a radio may find need of cell phone/txt use.

http://www.sos.state.mn.us/index.aspx?page=1680

http://www.ncdoj.gov/Help-for-Victims/Domestic-Violence-Victims.aspx

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/164064NCJRS.pdf


I may find a NEED to txt while driving.

So what I hear is that public endangerment is OK if there is a need? If a cop has had a few too many after work and a call for backup is made, there is a need (I guess) is it acceptable for him to drive while intoxicated.


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Rabbi
11-12-2012, 15:21
The fact is, officers do it all the time, and they do it because they can...that's how the public sees it, and they're exactly right.

BTW, as is also your problem, you lack the capacity to understand the meaning of the words you use.

In this case, that word is "Fact."

You used it, now, if what you say is a "fact" then you can prove it. Please do so. Prove what you claim here is a fact.

You cant. All you can do is get louder about how you feel.

TBO
11-12-2012, 15:21
I may find a NEED to txt while driving.

So what I hear is that public endangerment is OK if there is a need? If a cop has had a few too many after work and a call for backup is made, there is a need (I guess) is it acceptable for him to drive while intoxicated.


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If you don't like the law exempting LE from a certain part of the traffic code take it up with your legislature.

Don't come online wringing your hands and poking at the Cops.

Cops don't make laws, civilians do.

DanaT
11-12-2012, 15:22
As is continually showcased there is much you don't know about Law Enforcement, and even more you have an improper/poor understanding of.

I'll link just one example of information/communication that LE in a squad equipped with a radio may find need of cell phone/txt use.

http://www.sos.state.mn.us/index.aspx?page=1680

http://www.ncdoj.gov/Help-for-Victims/Domestic-Violence-Victims.aspx

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/164064NCJRS.pdf


It can't be proven but I highly suspect officer use of phones in cars is very rarely based upon urgency. It is like everyone else. Convenience. You can convince yourself it's a "need" just as easily as soccer mom convinces herself it's a need to make a txt or call. (btw talking on a phone in co is not illegal. Anyone can so it. Doesn't mean it's smart)


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DanaT
11-12-2012, 15:25
Don't come online wringing your hands and poking at the Cops.

Cops don't make laws, civilians do.
[/COLOR]

You must have a fragile ego or really hope I am in love with you.

Or maybe if it disturbs you so much you should hang out in cop talk and quit posting le threads in GNG. What percent of these threads are started by tbo?

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tantrix
11-12-2012, 15:26
I can tell you are not an LE at all and dont have a clue what you are talking about.

You are flat out wrong. As in, just posted something that is factually, and provable, wrong.

An LEO can do a lot of things that others would have to justify (like speeding)...and you know what, so can a Doctor, a Plumber, a Hair Stylist.....

As for rolling a stop sign...really? Are you that uninformed on the issue that you cant even imagine a time where LEO need to run silent and run fast?

And again, you dont have a clue why an LEO is doing the things they are doing. As is your habit, here and in other threads, you are convinced that what you see is how it is. You are wrong...and a fool. What you see is just and only that. You dont have the rest of the info.


I have 9 years as a deputy...you? Didn't think so.

You can claim the exemptions, I'm not arguing that...but don't try to spin it that every single time an officer pulls a rolling stop he's "running silent and running fast". :upeyes:



BTW, as is also your problem, you lack the capacity to understand the meaning of the words you use.

In this case, that word is "Fact."

You used it, now, if what you say is a "fact" then you can prove it. Please do so. Prove what you claim here is a fact.

You cant. All you can do is get louder about how you feel.

If you say so. When you don't want to admit something is true you either:

1) start pulling out numbers

or

2) going back 4 posts to make someone explain why they used a certain word (talking in circles)


You can't demand anything out of people when you refuse (or flat-out ignore) when others ask it of you.

TBO
11-12-2012, 15:28
I have 9 years as a deputy...you? Didn't think so.

You can claim the exemptions, I'm not arguing that...but don't try to spin it that every single time an officer pulls a rolling stop he's "running silent and running fast". :upeyes:

Quit constructing strawman.

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 15:30
I have 9 years as a deputy...you? Didn't think so.

You can claim the exemptions, I'm not arguing that...but don't try to spin it that every single time an officer pulls a rolling stop he's "running silent and running fast". :upeyes:

So, as "9 years as a deputy" you still stand behind these claims:


What you just said is basically: "I can do it because I'm LE, but if regular Joe's do it, they must convince me they had a valid reason."

In reality...there is no reason for LE pull a rolling stop, and if you must, that is what running code is for.

You dont have to be a cop for 9 minutes to know such claims are wrong.

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 15:31
If you say so. When you don't want to admit something is true you either:

1) start pulling out numbers

or

2) going back 4 posts to make someone explain why they used a certain word (talking in circles)


You can't demand anything out of people when you refuse (or flat-out ignore) when others ask it of you.

I am sorry, in the midst of making ludicrous claims and confusing how you feel for facts, did you ask me a question?

BTW, you dont understand the numbers anyway.

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 15:34
It can't be proven but I highly suspect officer use of phones in cars is very rarely based upon urgency. It is like everyone else. Convenience. You can convince yourself it's a "need" just as easily as soccer mom convinces herself it's a need to make a txt or call. (btw talking on a phone in co is not illegal. Anyone can so it. Doesn't mean it's smart)


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Let me ask you a question from a functional standpoint, do you really see much of a difference between talking on a cell phone and talking on a radio?

I dont and as someone who does both, often, there isnt. (if you disagree, so be it, that is an opinion)

If you dont think LE should be able to use a cell phone (for whatever reason) they do you think LE should not be able to use a radio?

TBO
11-12-2012, 15:34
You can't demand anything out of people when you refuse (or flat-out ignore) when others ask it of you.
Well, you've been ignoring my question.

tantrix
11-12-2012, 15:43
You dont have to be a cop for 9 minutes to know such claims are wrong.

I already said I'm not arguing the exemptions. And yes, I stand behind the fact the rolling a stop sign isn't needed the majority of the times LE does it. I see it ALL the time, for almost 10 years now. If I am responding and I truly need to "roll" a stop sign, I flash my overheads. I'm talking about a California stop where all wheels do not come to complete stop before continuing.



Well, you've been ignoring my question.

I answered your question. The OP, no matter what, still has the right to challenge it no matter what the results.

TBO
11-12-2012, 15:46
Do you believe, based on his post, he likely committed the violation?
Do you believe it's likely, based on his post, he'd be convicted if he fought it?
Do you believe it's okay to lie in court to try to get out of a ticket for an offense you committed?

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 15:47
I already said I'm not arguing the exemptions. And yes, I stand behind the fact the rolling a stop sign isn't needed the majority of the times LE does it. I see it ALL the time, for almost 10 years now. If I am responding and I truly need to "roll" a stop sign, I flash my overheads. I'm talking about a California stop where all wheels do not come to complete stop before continuing.





I answered your question. The OP, no matter what, still has the right to challenge it no matter what the results.

Ah, cool. I see. You were wrong and this is your way of admitting it.

You went from:

In reality...there is no reason for LE pull a rolling stop, and if you must, that is what running code is for

To:

And yes, I stand behind the fact the rolling a stop sign isn't needed the majority of the times LE does it

Of course, just for the record, you are NOT standing behind that "fact" because that is NOT what you said at all.

If you want to have a conversation with people, you might want to try working on your communication skills. Not lying, and understanding what the words you say mean.

tantrix
11-12-2012, 15:48
Do you believe, based on his post, he likely committed the violation?
Do you believe it's likely, based on his post, he'd be convicted if he fought it?
Do you believe it's okay to lie in court to try to get out of a ticket for an offense you committed?



The burden of proof is on the OP. The mercy shown is on the judge or DA. I'm not going to automatically assume the OP is right or wrong, that's not my job (or yours).

TBO
11-12-2012, 15:50
The burden of proof is on the OP. The mercy shown is on the judge or DA. I'm not going to automatically assume the OP is right or wrong, that's not my job (or yours).
If you were a Cop, you'd often be asked to analyze information, like what was given in the original post.'

Do you think it's okay to lie in court to try to get out of a ticket?

tantrix
11-12-2012, 15:52
Of course, just for the record, you are NOT standing behind that "fact" because that is NOT what you said at all.

If you want to have a conversation with people, you might want to try working on your communication skills. Not lying, and understanding what the words you say mean.

Apparently you are either denying what a rolling stop is, or making excuses.

What I said the first time is still fact: LEO's do rolling stops all the time, and the majority of the time it's not for a valid reason as you made it out to be. What you did was state there were legitimate reasons for such an act (which is true), but then made it sound as if all LEO's do it by the book. I, and nobody else here is that stupid to believe such a thing.

Dragoon44
11-12-2012, 15:53
You and I both know plenty of LEO's talk and txt while driving, run yellow lights and do plenty of California stops at intersections...all of which they cite other drivers for.


I wouldn't climb to high on that pedestal...just sayin'.

No actually I don't, the high tech gadget when I was working was the pager. Just before I retired the bag phones came out and there wasn't a single officer I worked with that had one.

So no, I didn't know any that texted since texting did not exist.

I do however have no doubt there are officers today that do so. And whether they do or not does not change my point or my criticism. If they text while driving because they think nothing will happen then they are as dumb and careless as the guy that rolls the stop sign because he thinks nothing will happen.

tantrix
11-12-2012, 15:55
If you were a Cop, you'd often be asked to analyze information, like what was given in the original post.'

Do you think it's okay to lie in court to try to get out of a ticket?



See, you're assuming he's lying from the start. I'll quote him:

I got stopped and ticketed for rolling a stop sign tonight. I probably rolled it but I honestly can't remember, but I certainly did not run through it with out slowing down at all.

He said he probably rolled it, but he honestly can't remember. If all evidence points to him rolling it, he'll lose. It's really quite simple.



I do however have no doubt there are officers today that do so. And whether they do or not does not change my point or my criticism. If they text while driving because they think nothing will happen then they are as dumb and careless as the guy that rolls the stop sign because he thinks nothing will happen.

That's exactly how I feel. However, some here probably disagree and will point out valid "reasons" for them to do so because they are LE.

TBO
11-12-2012, 15:56
tantrix,

Do you think it's okay to lie in court to try to get out of ticket?

Sharky7
11-12-2012, 16:00
I can tell you haven't been a LEO for long.


What you just said is basically: "I can do it because I'm LE, but if regular Joe's do it, they must convince me they had a valid reason."

In reality...there is no reason for LE pull a rolling stop, and if you must, that is what running code is for.


The fact is, officers do it all the time, and they do it because they can...that's how the public sees it, and they're exactly .

Quoted to save the awesomeness!

I question your honesty if you are a deputy.

You see an armed robbery offender in traffic about 50 yards up. You are in an urban area and must get close before you lose them in traffic. You are by yourself in a 1 man squad...you are going to activate your lights with no back up near by to get through stop signs and light? Now you just told the offender you are going after him. He either fights or flights - you lose.

Closing in on a pre-planned take down in traffic of a drug dealer where 4 take down cars need to get in position. You would use your lights?

Prove you are a deputy. I'm not believing it. You don't even come across as an educated citizen.

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 16:02
Apparently you are either denying what a rolling stop is, or making excuses.

What I said the first time is still fact: LEO's do rolling stops all the time, and the majority of the time it's not for a valid reason as you made it out to be. What you did was state there were legitimate reasons for such an act (which is true), but then made it sound as if all LEO's do it by the book. I, and nobody else here is that stupid to believe such a thing.

You can run from it all you want.

You said (do I need to quote it, yet again) there is NO reason for cops to do it. You are lying in this post (and others) claiming you did not say that. You did.

I only need to find ONE reason to prove you wrong. (and of course I can and you even agree to that now)

Everything else doesnt matter. You were wrong. You cant escape that.

OlliesRevenge
11-12-2012, 16:03
I can think of two examples of LEOs involved in MVA's because of cell phone use, just in my area. I'll spare you the links... you know I'm not making it up.

Difference between using radio vs cell phone? You don't have to look down to dial the numbers on the radio... it's usually tuned to the dispatch freq. (or other correct freq.)

When I was an apparatus driver I would have gotten an earful from the officer if I made a cell call while driving... now that I'm the officer... I'd do my driver the same favor if he decide to have a chat while driving.

Cell phone use while driving cause radio isn't working? In the 16 years I've been w/ fire I have used the 450Mhz system and the 800Mhz repeater system... and have found them both to be extremely reliable (chances are you guys use the 800 too). W/ the 800 Mhz system there is the rare site trunking issue... but even then you can get out. Basically the radio always works! I have previously wondered why LE doesn't equip their cruisers w/ headsets like fire does... it does wonders for clear radio comms, and the worst thing you have to deal with is tossing it off your head in an "exigent circumstance".

I would submit that the faster and more intense the driving is- should cause you to be less apt to use the cell phone... not more.

That's all Brother
11-12-2012, 16:05
Breaking the law and expecting no consequences?? Are you a politician??
Or a UN member.

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 16:07
Cell phone use while driving cause radio isn't working? In the 16 years I've been w/ fire I have used the 450Mhz system and the 800Mhz repeater system... and have found them both to be extremely reliable (chances are you guys use the 800 too). W/ the 800 Mhz system there is the rare site trunking issue... but even then you can get out. Basically the radio always works! I have previously wondered why LE doesn't equip their cruisers w/ headsets like fire does... it does wonders for clear radio comms, and the worst thing you have to deal with is tossing it off your head in an "exigent circumstance".

.

No, the radio you used "always worked" (according to YOUR claims)

The radio system where I am at doesnt. End of story.

....and again, EVEN WHEN the radio is working, there are a number of reasons why you would not use it.

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 16:09
Difference between using radio vs cell phone? You don't have to look down to dial the numbers on the radio... it's usually tuned to the dispatch freq. (or other correct freq.)



Not true either.

I switch frequencies quite often for various reasons, from various car to cars, from our digital primary to anolog and to a few others as well.

tantrix
11-12-2012, 16:16
You see an armed robbery offender in traffic about 50 yards up. You are in an urban area and must get close before you lose them in traffic. You are by yourself in a 1 man squad...you are going to activate your lights with no back up near by to get through stop signs and light? Now you just told the offender you are going after him. He either fights or flights - you lose.

Closing in on a pre-planned take down in traffic of a drug dealer where 4 take down cars need to get in position. You would use your lights?

Prove you are a deputy. I'm not believing it. You don't even come across as an educated citizen.


Well, firstly I would immediately radio it in, and of course I would use my overheads...overtaking cars in heavy traffic without using them is not wise, in that situation they are for protecting civilians. And do you honestly think someone who just committed an armed robbery is going to poke along in traffic just because they see no blue lights?



You can run from it all you want.

You said (do I need to quote it, yet again) there is NO reason for cops to do it. You are lying in this post (and others) claiming you did not say that. You did.

I only need to find ONE reason to prove you wrong. (and of course I can and you even agree to that now)

Everything else doesnt matter. You were wrong. You cant escape that.

You can quote me if you want...I did in fact say there is no reason for LE to do rolling stops. By rolling stops I mean the same ones those in civilian vehicles do. I never do such a thing without good reason, and at least flashing of overheads.

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 16:19
Well, firstly I would immediately radio it in, and of course I would use my overheads...overtaking cars in heavy traffic without using them is not wise, in that situation they are for protecting civilians. Officer discretion and all, but I wouldn't do it.





You can quote me if you want...I did in fact say there is no reason for LE to do rolling stops. By rolling stops I mean the same ones those in civilian vehicles do. I never do such a thing without at least flashing of overheads.

You can do and claim anything you want.

You were wrong. Your claim is incorrect and you are trying to mitigate the fact you were called out on it.

BTW, you are using present tense terms. Are you making the claim that you are NOW a fully sworn LEO?

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 16:21
Well, firstly I would immediately radio it in, and of course I would use my overheads...overtaking cars in heavy traffic without using them is not wise, in that situation they are for protecting civilians. And do you honestly think someone who just committed an armed robbery is going to poke along in traffic just because they see no blue lights?.

So, in your considerable LEO experience, you want to MAKE SURE they know you are coming?

Mayhem like Me
11-12-2012, 16:24
Well, firstly I would immediately radio it in, and of course I would use my overheads...overtaking cars in heavy traffic without using them is not wise, in that situation they are for protecting civilians. And do you honestly think someone who just committed an armed robbery is going to poke along in traffic just because they see no blue lights?





You can quote me if you want...I did in fact say there is no reason for LE to do rolling stops. By rolling stops I mean the same ones those in civilian vehicles do. I never do such a thing without good reason, and at least flashing of overheads.

I am glad I did not work with you, i can tell you know everything already and my experience would be lost on you..

My felony arrests are in the hundreds... over a dozen armed robbers, your way of tactically thinking through these situations is flawed.

tantrix
11-12-2012, 16:26
You can do and claim anything you want.

You were wrong. Your claim is incorrect and you are trying to mitigate the fact you were called out on it.

BTW, you are using present tense terms. Are you making the claim that you are NOW a fully sworn LEO?


I'm done watching you spin what I said. I said it AGAIN in post #240...either say you don't agree with it, or stop typing. For somebody who loves to claim everyone is wrong, I honestly can't see you ever letting someone go without citing them.

And I already answered the last question. I'm almost 10 years on the job, been shot at, and watched 2 SWAT buddies die. You're trying to armchair and you've got a whopping how many years as LE?

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 16:29
I'm done watching you spin what I said. I said it AGAIN in post #240...either say you don't agree with it, or stop typing. For somebody who loves to claim everyone is wrong, I honestly can't see you ever letting someone go without citing them.

And I already answered the last question. I'm almost 10 years on the job, been shot at, and watched 2 SWAT buddies die. You're trying to armchair and you've got a whopping how many years as LE?

So now you are an active LEO and SWAT?

And you said what you said. There no spin other than you trying to take it back.

In reality...there is no reason for LE pull a rolling stop, and if you must, that is what running code is for

tantrix
11-12-2012, 16:30
So, in your considerable LEO experience, you want to MAKE SURE they know you are coming?



I am glad I did not work with you, i can tell you know everything already and my experience would be lost on you..

My felony arrests are in the hundreds... over a dozen armed robbers, your way of tactically thinking through these situations is flawed.


Again, unless your armed robber is in a wheelchair, he's not sticking around...lights or not...and we don't live in the movie Die Hard where we can just blow through heavy traffic like we're invisible.

But whatever, you guys can do whatever you want in the situation provided.



So now you are an active LEO and SWAT?

And you said what you said. There no spin other than you trying to take it back.

Wow...you really don't keep up with things do you? I've even posted 2 incidents here on GT where I was present and a shooting occurred. And no, the one where my 2 buddies were killed I wasn't SWAT, just a responding deputy...and had six 7.62 rounds in the side of my car.

Sharky7
11-12-2012, 16:30
Well, firstly I would immediately radio it in, and of course I would use my overheads...overtaking cars in heavy traffic without using them is not wise, in that situation they are for protecting civilians. And do you honestly think someone who just committed an armed robbery is going to poke along in traffic just because they see no blue lights?





You can quote me if you want...I did in fact say there is no reason for LE to do rolling stops. By rolling stops I mean the same ones those in civilian vehicles do. I never do such a thing without good reason, and at least flashing of overheads.

I just failed you out of FTO for almost getting both of us killed.

There are literally hundreds of reasons an LEO would not use his lights. It's outrageous that any LEO with any real street experience would not know this. It's truly unbelievable to me you were a deputy - can you prove it?

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 16:33
Again, unless your armed robber is in a wheelchair, he's not sticking around...lights or not...and we don't live in the movie Die Hard where we can just blow through heavy traffic like we're invisible.

But whatever, you guys can do whatever you want in the situation provided.

DUDE, you dont have a clue what you are talking about.

In general, the only way I CAN blow through traffic is WITHOUT lights. If I turn the lights on....everything gridlocks fast as people get stupid. Without lights, the bad guy doesnt know I am coming and the traffic doesnt know I am there until I pass them...which is what I want, them to keep driving normal while I do my thing.

How is it you dont know this truth, that all other cops seem to know?

tantrix
11-12-2012, 16:40
I just failed you out of FTO for almost getting both of us killed.

There are literally hundreds of reasons an LEO would not use his lights. It's outrageous that any LEO with any real street experience would not know this. It's truly unbelievable to me you were a deputy - can you prove it?

I didn't say there weren't reasons for LEO's to not use their overheads, I said in that situation I would. We have many deputies on the road at a time...it wouldn't take very long to have a swarm on such a person, it's happened before.

Then again, this is all a hypothetical and I know you guys are all Bruce Willis and stuff, but that ain't the real world.



DUDE, you dont have a clue what you are talking about.

In general, the only way I CAN blow through traffic is WITHOUT lights. If I turn the lights on....everything gridlocks fast as people get stupid. Without lights, the bad guy doesnt know I am coming and the traffic doesnt know I am there until I pass them...which is what I want, them to keep driving normal while I do my thing.

How is it you dont know this truth, that all other cops seem to know?


I don't know how it is where you are, but when I hit my overheads I can damn near split lanes like I'm on a motorcycle because people will kill themselves to get out of the way.

Maybe you should work as a LEO in other areas before assuming how we do it is wrong.

Rabbi
11-12-2012, 16:41
Wow...you really don't keep up with things do you? I've even posted 2 incidents here on GT where I was present and a shooting occurred. And no, the one where my 2 buddies were killed I wasn't SWAT, just a responding deputy...and had six 7.62 rounds in the side of my car.

Why are you dancing around the question? You are worse than a street perp.

ARE YOU NOW, A FULLY SWORN LEO?