Field Sobriety Test for MJ DUI [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Gonzoso
11-08-2012, 23:42
So in the other thread someone mentioned developing a separate field sobriety test which would specifically allow officers to determine if a person was impaired by marijuana.

I am curious what kind of field sobriety test this would be.

Do you folks have any suggestions?

Folsom_Prison
11-08-2012, 23:45
Does MJ really impare you? I've never smoked the stuff. All the folks I've been around that did the stuff just wanted to F up the fridge or the kitchen cabinets....

The Maggy
11-08-2012, 23:51
My guess is that the test would involve a bag of Funions. It's about the only way that you can be sure.

tadbart
11-09-2012, 00:03
My guess is that the test would involve a bag of Funions. It's about the only way that you can be sure.


a highway patrol friend swears by FunYuns. if he sees a bag of them in the car, he finds weed. hasn't failed him in years.

golls17
11-09-2012, 00:21
It'll be the same. Yes, weed impairs you, and specifically, your coordination. I can't remember the effect it has on the eyes (it's been a while - I could look it up), but I guarantee if you're too high to drive, you won't be able to do the walk and turn or one leg stand properly.

NeverMore1701
11-09-2012, 00:47
I bet it'll involve a bag of Doritos...

TK-421
11-09-2012, 00:50
I've heard that it messes with your depth perception, but I don't know for sure, never smoked any, never will. And I bet the people who do smoke it are too busy looking for food to notice whether or not their depth perception is off. :rofl:

From what I understand, cops generally can tell if someone is under the influence because they notice something about their demeanor, their eyes are glazed, and sometimes a person will tell them when they smoked. Supposedly the effects stay with you for 72 hours, so if you've smoked it less than 72 hours ago, I guess you'd be under the influence still. :dunno:

JLB768
11-09-2012, 01:07
Put a pack of snow balls, a twinkie, and a snickers bar on the hood of the police car, make the subject take three laps around the car, if any of the three items vanish, cuff em.

frizz
11-09-2012, 01:29
My guess is that the test would involve a bag of Funions. It's about the only way that you can be sure.
Cheetos will work just as well, if not better. And it doesn't leave stank bref.

EdTracker
11-09-2012, 04:51
Maybe the SMELL of MJ reeking on the individual might be a hint that additional testing is required. I usually smell a baked person before I ever see them.

You would probably only catch the dumb users but isn't that like 85 to 90 percent of today's society.

syntaxerrorsix
11-09-2012, 04:52
I've heard that it messes with your depth perception, but I don't know for sure, never smoked any, never will. And I bet the people who do smoke it are too busy looking for food to notice whether or not their depth perception is off. :rofl:

From what I understand, cops generally can tell if someone is under the influence because they notice something about their demeanor, their eyes are glazed, and sometimes a person will tell them when they smoked. Supposedly the effects stay with you for 72 hours, so if you've smoked it less than 72 hours ago, I guess you'd be under the influence still. :dunno:


If you've found a strain with effects that last 72 hours you need to buy a farm. You're a billionaire in waiting.

Lampshade
11-09-2012, 04:59
Supposedly the effects stay with you for 72 hours, so if you've smoked it less than 72 hours ago, I guess you'd be under the influence still. :dunno:

Oh Jesus Christ.

eruby
11-09-2012, 05:10
Friends don't let friends drive drunk stoned. :cool:

southernshooter
11-09-2012, 05:16
Cheetos will work just as well, if not better. And it doesn't leave stank bref.

Orange fingers would be a giveaway though.

Ohio Copper
11-09-2012, 05:30
It's relatively easy to spot once you know what you're looking for.

Marijuana is only a minor misdemeanor here but OVIdrugs is huge now.


You'll need a urinalyis or just officer observations along with the same process as an alcohol ovi.

A good friend of mine does both urinalyis and bac, but he's a trooper.


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steveksux
11-09-2012, 05:33
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Same as you do now, only use a bag of Cheetos instead of a pen. Wave that in front of their eyes. My advice? Wear the metal gloves they use to hand feed sharks.

Randy

camelotkid
11-09-2012, 05:37
It's relatively easy to spot once you know what you're looking for.

Marijuana is only a minor misdemeanor here but OVIdrugs is huge now.


You'll need a urinalyis or just officer observations along with the same process as an alcohol ovi.

A good friend of mine does both urinalyis and bac, but he's a trooper.


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just curious can the pee test tell the difference from being high and having it in your system but not being high?

Ohio Copper
11-09-2012, 05:57
just curious can the pee test tell the difference from being high and having it in your system but not being high?

It doesn't matter. If it is over a certain ng/ml ( I believe it's 50) it's unlawful to have in your system and operate a vehicle.

So yes, it could be.


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costanza187
11-09-2012, 06:00
Put a pack of snow balls, a twinkie, and a snickers bar on the hood of the police car, make the subject take three laps around the car, if any of the three items vanish, cuff em.

:rofl:

PrecisionRifleman
11-09-2012, 06:03
If you've found a strain with effects that last 72 hours you need to buy a farm. You're a billionaire in waiting.

Agreed

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BSA70
11-09-2012, 06:08
MJ definitly impairs. The problem is there is no standard like alcohol. .08 is the legal limit and pretty much says you are impaired. People get out of DUI everyday that blows over, but that is the standard.

No standard with MJ or any other drug. So it is 100% on the officer to articulate impairment. If they wreck and kill some one, no problem to prove. On a traffic stop, that will be different.

PAGunner
11-09-2012, 06:11
5 nano grams per milliliter of blood, simple. There will be a market for devices that can test via pin prick in the near future, someone will be making some money.

F14Scott
11-09-2012, 06:22
Rather than testing for "sobriety," be it from alcohol or drugs, I think we should have a field Reaction Time test. In other words, instead of testing for the presence of drugs, we should test for the effects of drugs. Alcohol is notorious for having different effects on different sizes, ages, and genders. One person's staggering drunk .08 is another's not feeling anything drunk. So, don't test for drunk (or stoned), test for RT.

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php

This solution would give the police an OBJECTIVE, easy to administer, non-invasive, cheap and fast test to apply to anyone involved in a driving incident. Fail it after a crash? DWI (driving while incapable). Fail it at the DMV? No license. Fail it after getting pulled over for an infraction? DWI.

Of course, that would put the owness on the drivers to ensure they were physically capable of driving a car. I'm sure the medical community could incorporate it into annual physicals. And, web sites like the above would be an easy check.

I suspect such a simple, objective test of actual ability will never happen, thanks to the AARP.

Bruce M
11-09-2012, 06:32
....

Do you folks have any suggestions?
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/310271/CHEESY-POOFS.jpg

John Rambo
11-09-2012, 06:39
So in the other thread someone mentioned developing a separate field sobriety test which would specifically allow officers to determine if a person was impaired by marijuana.

I am curious what kind of field sobriety test this would be.

Do you folks have any suggestions?

Set a bad of Funions down in front of them and walk away for 15 minutes.

John Rambo
11-09-2012, 06:41
It's relatively easy to spot once you know what you're looking for.


What are you looking for thats so easy to spot?

voyager4520
11-09-2012, 06:59
The smell would be obvious unless it's obscured by something else or the person took a shower before driving. The glossy and possibly bloodshot appearance of the eyes would be a good indicator, as would an ADD-type attitude of the person. I don't know much about the type of field sobriety techniques for alcohol that would also apply to marijuana though.

I'm curious whether blood tests would show law-breaking levels of cannabinoids hours or even days after the psychoactive effects have worn off, I know this is something the medical marijuana community was concerned about.

PAGunner
11-09-2012, 07:07
The smell would be obvious unless it's obscured by something else or the person took a shower before driving. The glossy and possible bloodshot appearance of the eyes would be a good indicator, as would an ADD-type attitude of the person. I don't know much about the type of field sobriety techniques for alcohol that would also apply to marijuana though.

I'm curious whether blood tests would show law-breaking levels of cannabinoids hours or even days after the psychoactive effects have worn off, I know this is something the medical marijuana community was concerned about.

Urine tests for THC metabolite that can linger for days without intoxicating effects. THC can be tested directly by blood, within minutes of inhalation blood levels spike rapidly and within an hour or so are down to very low levels. The proposed 5ng/ml is pretty close to the ideal number, basically the equivalent to BAC of .08.

Like I previously said the only challenge is, producing accurate, affordable and portable devices that can test levels via pinprick and training officers in their use.

Atlas
11-09-2012, 07:16
This topic on GT always inspires those who wish to declare their complete and total ignorance by publicly expressing their mistaken opinions as fact.

Averageman
11-09-2012, 07:45
I have no idea how they will fix this, but it is surely an excuse to raise your car insurance.

Fox184
11-09-2012, 07:50
Convergence (or lack thereof) is an indicator of being under the influenceof Marijuana.

uptomyneck
11-09-2012, 08:19
The drug Cops around here always have a huge chunk of tobacco in their mouths. They're constantly under the influence of nicotine. Bunch of hypocritical POS.

Hauptmann6
11-09-2012, 08:35
Set a bad of Funions down in front of them and walk away for 15 minutes.

I love me some Funions! And I don't smoke.

professorpinki
11-09-2012, 08:35
The drug Cops around here always have a huge chunk of tobacco in their mouths. They're constantly under the influence of nicotine. Bunch of hypocritical POS.
Yeah, except one's legal and one isn't.

When in Rome...

briarpatch
11-09-2012, 08:44
Yeaaa.. Buddy, thats all we need a bunch of cops collecting blood on the side of the road and using the same needle/finger prick because he forgot to change it. After using it on a pot load of pot using druggers.
Lets get this going NOW.

sheriff733
11-09-2012, 08:47
If you smell weed, and find a white castle receipt dated within a couple hours, don't worry. That's all the proof you need.

fresnofishfan
11-09-2012, 10:16
The FST for Mj in my area consists of a few things. Officer will ask the driver to count to 30 while the officer times him/her. I guess if you cant tell how long 30 secs is you are really stoned??

Then they have you do the finger tip test. Starting with pinky touch fingers in order to your thumb while counting 1,2,3,4. Then back down starting with index 4,3,2,1, over and over until the officer can see you are doing it corerctly or are too stoned.

Most cops in Ca are cool about weed, and have been around it enough to know if someone is too stoned to drive.

I have a friend who passed the test after being stopped and suspected. He told him the truth(couple hits in the am 4 hrs before he left town) gave him the test, and gave him his pipe back.
He dosent even have a med card. He is honest and friendly with cops and they have returned the favor everytime. He still gave him a ticket for speeding tho' . CHP isnt going to pass up a chance to write a citation...

ChuteTheMall
11-09-2012, 10:28
Local cops have perfected the field urine test.

They set an empty cup on the hood of the patrol car and instruct the suspect to pee into it, while the dash-cam records his efforts.

Whether he hits or misses, now there's a video of him peeing onto a police car, so he's obviously in trouble.

:okie:

John Rambo
11-09-2012, 11:22
The FST for Mj in my area consists of a few things. Officer will ask the driver to count to 30 while the officer times him/her. I guess if you cant tell how long 30 secs is you are really stoned??

Then they have you do the finger tip test. Starting with pinky touch fingers in order to your thumb while counting 1,2,3,4. Then back down starting with index 4,3,2,1, over and over until the officer can see you are doing it corerctly or are too stoned.


Wholly ineffective on anyone but novice smokers who did WAAAY too much and are visibly impaired anyhow. But I guess the flatfoots gotta do something to make them feel like they're still in control of things. Hell, look at all the experts in this thread who know exactly what to look for! :upeyes:

Ohio Copper
11-09-2012, 14:06
What are you looking for thats so easy to spot?

Neil Patrick Harris in the back seat.


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TK-421
11-09-2012, 14:26
Oh Jesus Christ.

If you've found a strain with effects that last 72 hours you need to buy a farm. You're a billionaire in waiting.

Yeah, I figured that part was bull****, but like I've said, I've never used it, and I'm just reiterating what I've heard. Saw a few episodes of cops where they arrested people for driving under the influence of pot, and that was something the cops claimed. Not the fact that you're still high 72 hours later, but the fact that apparently it impairs you for 72 hours. I really doubt it, but I don't know for sure.

ezdaar
11-09-2012, 14:31
It doesn't matter. If it is over a certain ng/ml ( I believe it's 50) it's unlawful to have in your system and operate a vehicle.

So yes, it could be.


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Thats retarded, MJ is stored between fatty cells. So depending how FAT you are, it could last 10-40 days.
Based off your quote, IF I smoked some and am fat, I am impaired for 30 days or so and shouldn't be driving.

Atlas
11-09-2012, 14:32
...Not the fact that you're still high 72 hours later, but the fact that apparently it impairs you for 72 hours. I really doubt it, but I don't know for sure.

Not even 24 hours.
Until I became a firearms owner 13 years ago I used MJ for 20 years, 5-6 days per week.

No way it can ever "impair" you for 72 hours. That is the silliest argument posed yet.

I didn't smoke it, I ate it, which yields a MUCH more intense effect. It also enabled me to do it all day when I wished and I often did so throughout my workday.


In discussion regarding MJ, people love to post their opinion as fact in the absence of any actual knowledge.

TK-421
11-09-2012, 14:38
Not even 24 hours.
Until I became a firearms owner 13 years ago I used MJ for 20 years, 5-6 days per week.

No way it can ever "impair" you for 72 hours. That is the silliest argument posed yet.

I didn't smoke it, I ate it, which yields a MUCH more intense effect. It also enabled me to do it all day when I wished and I often did so throughout my workday.


In discussion regarding MJ, people love to post their opinion as fact in the absence of any actual knowledge.

It's not an argument, just a reiteration of what I've heard from Cops shows on TV. Personally I think more scientific testing needs to be done to figure exactly how it impairs you, how long it impairs, and whether it makes you a dangerous driver or not. My thought is that if it made you a dangerous driver, we'd have MADWH (Mothers Against Driving While High). So I don't think driving while high impairs you enough to make you a ****ty drive. :rofl:

However, I have no factual data to back up anything I say, so it's all just guesses and my own thoughts. :dunno:

John Rambo
11-09-2012, 14:41
Neil Patrick Harris in the back seat.


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Don't forget Jerry Garcia in their head.

http://thumbs.anyclip.com/tYTIg4bHq/tmb_140_480.jpg

Atlas
11-09-2012, 14:44
It's not an argument, just a reiteration of what I've heard from Cops shows on TV....



Understood.

I know a man who went hang-gliding for years while using MJ.
He was known for his extended-duration high-altitude flights (no pun intended).

He often flew from Lookout Mountain in Tennessee.
Many of the guys there used MJ before flying. They smoked together on the mountaintop before going up and called it "a safety meeting".


My friend only gave up hang-gliding when arthritis resulting from a car accident years earlier made landings too painful. He took some great high-altitude photos.

noway
11-09-2012, 15:24
RT testing is not going to be any better than any of the approved sFST test. You have way to many more factors involved

person mental state
initimitation and fear factors form being arrest
how tire or sleepness
effects of any other legal pre-scriptions that might effect your RT testing
etc....

If a LEO think RT would be suitable for their case, a rookie DUI lawyer could probably have all of the results thrown out at pre-trial.

Ohio Copper
11-09-2012, 15:35
Thats retarded, MJ is stored between fatty cells. So depending how FAT you are, it could last 10-40 days.
Based off your quote, IF I smoked some and am fat, I am impaired for 30 days or so and shouldn't be driving.

4511.19 Operating vehicle under the influence of alcohol or drugs - OVI.
(A)(1) No person shall operate any vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley within this state, if, at the time of the operation, any of the following apply:

(vii) The person has a concentration of marihuana in the person’s urine of at least ten nanograms of marihuana per milliliter of the person’s urine or has a concentration of marihuana in the person’s whole blood or blood serum or plasma of at least two nanograms of marihuana per milliliter of the person’s whole blood or blood serum or plasma.

It is what it is. It flies in court when you have 2580ng/ml in your system (and that's not contact high).


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beatcop
11-09-2012, 15:41
The lab would establish a threshold level for the actual sample, however the same DUI detection and tests are used in my State.

The operation of the vehicle itself is the issue...not just the threshold level. As someone stated some folks have a greater tolerance for alcohol...and their driving reflects this, so BAC is not the end all for determining guilt. You can catch a DUI with one drink if your driving is affected by the chemical to the point of detection/traffic violations.

There are "D.R.E" certified officers that have a few more recognition tricks to determine which drug was likely used, but "Standardized Field Sobriety tests" (HGN, Walk and turn, One leg Stand) are the only NHTSA tests I am aware of.

repooc
11-09-2012, 15:46
DUI for Pot opens a new can of worms. All of the food jokes aside I think that this will be a difficult legal problem. I know from experience that when drive stoned I tend to drive real slow. I haven't smoked pot in a long time because for me it results in paranoia.

Magnus2131
11-09-2012, 15:49
I bet it'll involve a bag of Doritos...
For the win. Back in the day when I first discovered Doritos, I took the test.:whistling: