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Riverkilt
11-09-2012, 03:38
I'm an olde guy. Spent years in Corporate America with large Fortune 500 outfits. But I don't underestand "Corporate Austria." Glock is a large corporation who's built a reputation for quality and reliability. This month I finally broke down and ordered one of their products (G26 Gen 4). My local dealer brought it in from a large distributor in South Carolina. I take it to the range and nearly every spent casing ejects into my face or head. Funny, cute, but not cool. So I get online and find out its somehow my fault out that it does this out of the box. I've failed to have the extractor replaced after paying a LOT of money for a supposedly quality product. Oh, and I'm for sure shooting the wrong ammo....

What I wanna know is what is up with Glock Management, Design, Quality Control? How can such a huge corporation with such a huge reputation for quality let a defect like this slip through so many stages of development then unleash it onto their customers? Despite the "Mine shoots fine" posts there are thousands of "Mine ejects cases into my face" posts. I can't believe this didn't happen back in Austria when the Gen 4s were being developed.

I know about it all being my fault somehow. What I wanna know about as a new guy is WHO is running this corporation that allowed such a wide ranging disaster to happen. Do they not care? Are they aloof because of their long standing reputation? Are they incompetent? Are employees afraid to point out problems?

Serious. I wanna know about the folks who run the Glock Corp these days. Don't need comments on polishing my extractor or changing ammo or limp wristing...Lots of threads on that on lots of forums. I'm curious about how such a marketing disaster could make it though all the development stages, testing, manufacturing without someone saying, "Hey, these things spit the case in the customers face!"

Thanks.

Bruce M
11-09-2012, 06:52
I am going to go out on a limb here and take a completely wild guess that Glock did not know they had a problem until after the guns were in circulation. I am thinking the better question may be when did they go from hearing about the problem and ignoring it to admitting it exists and do they actually know exactly what is the root cause of the problem.

Boot Stomper
11-09-2012, 07:53
Sorry to here about your problem with the new Gen 4.

Glock is fixing the problem, but I agree the problem should not exist. Watch this video. It is very well done and it may help you decide your next step. This guy is a member here on GT. Good Luck.

Glock Fixed It! Gen 4 G17 (Part 2) - YouTube

dhgeyer
11-09-2012, 08:01
A little off topic, but actually not off topic at all. The same thing has happened at BMW, in particular in the motorcycle end of things. In the 1970's through about 2005 or so, they had the same kind of high tech, bulletproof reputation that Glock had until recently.

I won't list in detail all the issues that BMW bikes have had. I will just mention one: final drive failures. There is a specialized competition that some motorcyclists compete in. It's called "Iron Butt". The idea is to ride insane amounts of miles, day in and day out. One typical goal is called the "50CC". Ride coast to coast in 50 hours. That's 50 hours elapsed, not saddle time. Leave the East Coast 8:00 AM Monday, arrive West Coast by 10:00 AM Wednesday. The Iron Butt riders have a rally every 2 years. In order to place, never mind win, you must average over 1000 miles per day
for about 2 weeks. I describe this because it is a test not only of the rider, but also of the machines. People pay attention to what brand does well in the Iron Butt rallies. BMW absolutely dominated these events for years, no, decades. In the last few years they have all but become a laughingstock because they have had so many final drive failures.

Like Glock, a lot of buyers aren't aware of the current problems and go ahead and buy based on established reputation.

Why is this relevant to a Glock handgun forum? Because the corporate response has been about the same. Denial. Blame it on the user (improper maintenance). Blame it on the dealer. Don't release any statistics as to how widespread it is. Don't stand behind the product. Don't eat a bad bunch of parts: use them up and send them out. Sound familiar?

It seem that a lot of large, established companies have abandoned long term success oriented goals in favor of a quick buck. Maximize near term gain at the expense of everything else. Big bucks and bonuses at the top, and they can retire.

In the end, those companies will pay.

Riverkilt
11-09-2012, 08:16
Thanks for the video - for some reason is shuts down. Will try it from work later.

There IS a spent case in my Glock Box with the pistol. So someone (or something?) test fired it before shipping. Seems if for every one who posted about getting hit in the face with the ejected cases that the poor employee testfiring before shipping is getting hit in the face too....???

Whatever the case there should be some type of final inspection, random testing of every so many finished pistols, etc etc before shipping. Somewhere along the line from the start of "Lets change this" to shipping you'd think there'd be an inspection to see how the new idea is working.

Maybe budget cuts..."We're so good we don't need to double check our product?"

bac1023
11-09-2012, 08:17
I think the problems are being fixed, but Glock definitely dropped a few notches in my eyes. It never should have happened and I find it inexcusable.

I'm sticking with my mid 2000's gen 3 models.

F106 Fan
11-09-2012, 09:50
If the problem was limited to Gen 4s, the solution would be easy: quit making them and sell Gen 3s until the problem is fixed.

Unfortunately, Glock successfully migrated the problem back to the Gen 3s and they did it in such a way that the only known solution is to replace the Gen 3 with a Gen 4. Now the Gen 3 buyer has a Gen 4 with all its issues but it is possible to fix a Gen 4, maybe...

But what about the folks in California? Gen 4s can't come into California so the popular fix for late model Gen 3s won't work. That leaves us stuck!

Well, not stuck, exactly: There are Sigs and XDs and S&Ws and Berettas and... And that's the fix! The Glock name just isn't that important. I would take an XD hands down over a Glock any day of the week!

I've only got, perhaps, 300 rounds through my G21SF. It works well although the ejection is not nearly as robust as my Sig P220. But it works. For now... I don't know what will happen when I get to the 1000 round mark. An awful lot of guns start to fail around that point but the good news is that I don't shoot it very often so it may be years before I get there.

I bought the G21SF because I had 'heard' that Glocks were great! Everybody had ball caps and T-shirts with 'Perfection' written all over them. I did not search the Internet (my bad!) and I just bought one to see how they worked.

The good news is that Glocks are cheap. I can afford to dump the gun for whatever I can get and still not be out very much money. I'm not at that point but I won't be taking a very big loss.

Richard

Bilrus61
11-09-2012, 10:53
I would guess the guy that test fires them looks like the guy in the movie "Robot Monster" from 1954. Someone that isn't on dail-up like me needs to post a pic of him!

I doubt Glock has fixed it. They won't try until it starts to impact sales and I doubt that has happened yet. Another year or two and it will however, as talk at shows/gunshops/ranges starts to get around. Then we will see the Gen 5 and all will be well. Just have to wait it out. I was going to get a G34 to go along with my G26 but now I'm going to trade my G26 late Gen3 off for a Sig 938 or a S&W 28 and replace the G26 with my Sig 230. I'm in a wheelchair and the brass lands in my lap on my legs with the G 26.

clarkz71
11-09-2012, 11:11
I would guess the guy that test fires them looks like the guy in the movie "Robot Monster" from 1954. Someone that isn't on dail-up like me needs to post a pic of him!


Here you go................


http://trashymovie.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/robot_monster_02.jpg

Riverkilt
11-09-2012, 11:47
Crack me up on the test fire guy. Think you folks are right. The only fix may be to sell the new Glock and go back to another Beretta or Kel-Tec or Smith and Wesson or Colt.

Did email Glock customer service. Will see what they suggest - if anything.

And, I too, am guilty about skipping over the sites about Glock problems. Bought off on what my friends say about them.

So...we'll see....

brickboy240
11-09-2012, 13:58
As I sit and wait for the 3rd gen Glock extractor from Apex...the P-30 and PPQ are looking real good about now.


...seriously


-brickboy240

4Rules
11-09-2012, 17:52
If you're really serious, and you really want to know what has happened to Glock, you could just give in and read the book (https://www.amazon.ca/Glock-The-Rise-Americas-Gun/dp/0307719936).

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51PsBwhU88L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU15_.jpg

It's not the whole story, but it's a pretty good start.

omega48038
11-09-2012, 18:20
The brains behind the original Glock design, Wilhelm Bubits, is long gone. The current crop of talent... isn't. The company took the work of a brilliant firearms designer and tried to improve it with a bunch of generic engineers.

PM720
11-09-2012, 18:53
I don't think you can lay this all on Glock. Ever heard of exploding Pinto's? Ford Mustangs transmission issues? Toyota throttles sticking/ I just read that Jeep is recalling 940,000 vehicles! :wow: I run a small electronics manufacturing company and we test everything before it ships. We spend months in R&D trying to find all the bugs and we still get bit sometimes by variances in certain applications that simply do not show up in our testing. Caca happens sometimes. As for the guy firing the test cases, I am not sure how much of an issue he is going to see firing 2 rounds per gun. :dunno:

Scott

tbc
11-09-2012, 19:09
My guess is that consistent ejection was never a part of their design criteria.


Sent from iPhone through Tapatalk

omega48038
11-09-2012, 19:25
I don't think you can lay this all on Glock. Ever heard of exploding Pinto's? Ford Mustangs transmission issues? Toyota throttles sticking/ I just read that Jeep is recalling 940,000 vehicles! :wow: I run a small electronics manufacturing company and we test everything before it ships. We spend months in R&D trying to find all the bugs and we still get bit sometimes by variances in certain applications that simply do not show up in our testing. Caca happens sometimes. As for the guy firing the test cases, I am not sure how much of an issue he is going to see firing 2 rounds per gun. :dunno:

Scott

Pretty tough to draw a parallel between a complex electronic component with a multitude of applications and feedback, and a couple of levers and inclined planes with basically one application.

And yes, the exploding Pintos were Ford's fault.

samurairabbi
11-09-2012, 19:30
I'm an olde guy. Spent years in Corporate America with large Fortune 500 outfits. But I don't underestand "Corporate Austria." Glock is a large corporation who's built a reputation for quality ...
.

Your life has been spent in Fortune 500 outfits; Glock is a privately held company. That is a massive difference in outlook.

The Glock company is superbly profitable, but it is actually a small company that has a way of coining money. A small, yet rich, privately held company is vulnerable to the idiosyncracies of its owner.

Barrett estimated the value of the Glock company at around 8-900 million dollars. A big number, but actually just middle of the road compared to large industrial publicly held outfits.

Riverkilt
11-09-2012, 19:30
Thanks for the book link. Didn't know it existed.

The cases from the first two rounds I fired out of the box hit me in the face...I'm guessing so did the round the test fire guy fired...unless its some machine that does it.

No word back from Glock yet. Imagine they'll get to it after the holiday.

Did get by my dealers to see what he'd give me for it, but the owner was out. Been looking at a LOT of options again.

INEEDMILK
11-09-2012, 20:05
Glock can't analyze the issue because it has SO many variables, the biggest of which is that these ****ball extractors they are producing don't lose their spec for 1000+ rounds.

So customer X gets his new Gen4 Glock and comes on GlockTalk and says "you idiots are crazy my new Gen4 is fine" and then on the 1,001th round it starts flinging brass at his retina. Then he bumps his old **** thread and says "yea sorry my gun is ejecting badly now", but it is irrelevant because the thread has already devolved into some "youre a weak wristed *****" versus "I've had 14 Glocks and this is the only one that gives me problems".

Then the customer pays their hard earned money to send their Glock back to Georgia to be inspected by Glock technicians. The technicians put his Glock in the giant pile of other Glocks on warranty repair backorder. When it is finally his Glocks time to get inspected, the techs load up two magazines of Blazer brass and fire them downrange. If it throws brass erratically, they just swap out the ejector and extractor and call it a day.
He gets it back 6 weeks later with a note that says "inspected", and then takes it to the range the next weekend only to find that it has the same problem, if not worse.

He gets upset that he paid $50 to ship his Glock back to the factory only to have it return with the same problem after it has been "inspected". He calls Glock up the next day and asks what should be done, and the person answering the phone instructs him to send it in again. He says "why should I send it in?? I just sent it in and you guys didn't fix the problem and now I'm out of money. I feel like you should be paying for the shipping back and forth to the factory", but the person on the phone has been instructed by their boss not to give out any more free RMAs. But the guy gets upset when he is told "no more RMAs" because his co-workers friends cousins neighbor, Ralph, got his Glock RMAed no problem. He calls Glock back 6 more times over the next week in hopes of getting a "generous" CS rep, but, alas he has no luck.

He gets upset but realizes the damage is done. He takes it to the range a few times over the next year but knows in his heart that he can honestly never recommend a Glock to any one of his friends ever again.

Then he finds out that this company called APEX is making a tiny piece of metal called an extractor that supposedly fixes the problem in his brand new Glock. He finally sees that they are in stock (after hearing about them for months) and notices that APEX is charging an absurd ****ing $60!~!!!!!! FOR A PIECE OF METAL 1 INCH IN DIAMETER!!! "Why should I have to pay for this?" he thinks to himself. "Glock should be paying for this."

He finally saves up $60 and waits 3 more weeks and gets his APEX extractor in the mail. He pops it in and, finally, the next weekend is he able to go shooting again. All of his casings are ejected strongly to the 4 o'clock, just like his Gen3 RTF2 made in 2009.

He thinks to himself, "Ah, Glock perfection."

SJ 40
11-09-2012, 20:37
Glock can't analyze the issue because it has SO many variables, the biggest of which is that these ****ball extractors they are producing don't lose their spec for 1000+ rounds.

So customer X gets his new Gen4 Glock and comes on GlockTalk and says "you idiots are crazy my new Gen4 is fine" and then on the 1,001th round it starts flinging brass at his retina. Then he bumps his old **** thread and says "yea sorry my gun is ejecting badly now", but it is irrelevant because the thread has already devolved into some "youre a weak wristed *****" versus "I've had 14 Glocks and this is the only one that gives me problems".

Then the customer pays their hard earned money to send their Glock back to Georgia to be inspected by Glock technicians. The technicians put his Glock in the giant pile of other Glocks on warranty repair backorder. When it is finally his Glocks time to get inspected, the techs load up two magazines of Blazer brass and fire them downrange. If it throws brass erratically, they just swap out the ejector and extractor and call it a day.
He gets it back 6 weeks later with a note that says "inspected", and then takes it to the range the next weekend only to find that it has the same problem, if not worse.

He gets upset that he paid $50 to ship his Glock back to the factory only to have it return with the same problem after it has been "inspected". He calls Glock up the next day and asks what should be done, and the person answering the phone instructs him to send it in again. He says "why should I send it in?? I just sent it in and you guys didn't fix the problem and now I'm out of money. I feel like you should be paying for the shipping back and forth to the factory", but the person on the phone has been instructed by their boss not to give out any more free RMAs. But the guy gets upset when he is told "no more RMAs" because his co-workers friends cousins neighbor, Ralph, got his Glock RMAed no problem. He calls Glock back 6 more times over the next week in hopes of getting a "generous" CS rep, but, alas he has no luck.

He gets upset but realizes the damage is done. He takes it to the range a few times over the next year but knows in his heart that he can honestly never recommend a Glock to any one of his friends ever again.

Then he finds out that this company called APEX is making a tiny piece of metal called an extractor that supposedly fixes the problem in his brand new Glock. He finally sees that they are in stock (after hearing about them for months) and notices that APEX is charging an absurd ****ing $60!~!!!!!! FOR A PIECE OF METAL 1 INCH IN DIAMETER!!! "Why should I have to pay for this?" he thinks to himself. "Glock should be paying for this."

He finally saves up $60 and waits 3 more weeks and gets his APEX extractor in the mail. He pops it in and, finally, the next weekend is he able to go shooting again. All of his casings are ejected strongly to the 4 o'clock, just like his Gen3 RTF2 made in 2009.

He thinks to himself, "Ah, Glock perfection."You Nailed it ! SJ 40

Breadman03
11-09-2012, 21:08
I'm not saying this is why, but...

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa479/Breadman03/a4f5eedd96b1204d59c3a3e5c58a0299.jpg

Riverkilt
11-09-2012, 22:18
Great story SJ...sounds like it could even be a real story....thanks for saving me the shipping charges to Georgia....now off to Google up APEX....

Riverkilt
11-14-2012, 19:39
Still on the APEX waiting list....did get a response from Anthony Burdett at Glock. He wanted me to send it in...I kept asking what the fix was for this problem of a couple years...never got a staight answer...and he stopped responding (yes, I was polite. I'm a very unhappy first time buyer but the interest just didn't seem to be there to help me) This was Monday - a holiday for most but Glock was up and running. So yesterday evening sent an email asking where he went. Still no answer back from him on Wed eve. We'll see.

But, while this was going on my steel spring guide thingie arrived. I put it in last night and just got back from the range after work. Maybe its my imagination but there seems less recoil with the steel spring rod thingie...and I seem to shoot better with it...which may fit with less recoil.

And, the best news - for whatever reason the spent cases no longer hit me in the face. They do still accurately rain down on the top of my head and sometimes my right shoulder...but in 50 rounds tonight - no face shots.

Until I get a more customer service oriented attitude from Glock I'm VERY reluctant to send them anything....hopefully, I'll get a shot at ordering the APEX thingie...and did find an ex-LEO better than me gunsmith in town if I can't figure out how to install it.

Methinks this is my last Glock purchase.

dhgeyer
11-14-2012, 20:53
If you're really serious, and you really want to know what has happened to Glock, you could just give in and read the book (https://www.amazon.ca/Glock-The-Rise-Americas-Gun/dp/0307719936).

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51PsBwhU88L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU15_.jpg

It's not the whole story, but it's a pretty good start.

I downloaded the Kindle edition and read it on my computer and phone, depending on which was more convenient at the time. Anyway, it's disquieting to say the least. It doesn't make me feel good about owning Glocks. What a bunch of smarmy...... (and whatever I might say next would just be turned into a bunch of asterisks anyway, so I'll save the computer the trouble). They're a bunch of ******* and ******* and ********.

Of course they're very rich **********.

Riverkilt
12-01-2012, 13:50
Well fine...I walked the story INEEDMILK laid out. Paid $640 for the new Glock 26 Gen 4. Out of the box the hot cases fly directly into my face. Start researching. Pay another $50 for a steel recoil spring assembly. That helps, the hot cases don't fly into my face anymore, but they do rain down on my head. Order the Apex Tactical extractor. Finally get it when they're back in stock. Another $70. At least its milled. Put it in. Can't get the old extractor depressor plunger spring seperated from the extractor depressor plunger and the spring-loaded bearing...but hey, I'm doing good to change out the extractor. So leave the old extractor depressor plunger spring in place and get the 26 back together (miracle!). It ejects 5 snap caps at 3 0'clock...hopeful sign. Take it to the range and run 50 of the SAME ammo through it and most eject at 4 o'clock, a few are close at 5 o'clock...but no hot brass to the face or raining on my head.

Can't tell you how thrilled I am to purchase a so called "quality product" for $640.00 and still have to spend another $120.00 to make it work...and spend time to figure out how and what to do to make it work....

And to top it off the manufacturer's customer no-service department did their job well and in fixing the problems I've probably voided the warranty big time.

Will I buy another Glock product? Don't think so. Gonna order that book too.

clarkz71
12-01-2012, 14:03
$640 for a Gen4 9mm?? What gun shop so I can avoid it.

My LGS sells Gen3 $500 out the door
(tax,background check included)

Gen4 $540, same deal out the door.

JBP55
12-01-2012, 14:11
Well fine...I walked the story INEEDMILK laid out. Paid $640 for the new Glock 26 Gen 4. Out of the box the hot cases fly directly into my face. Start researching. Pay another $50 for a steel recoil spring assembly. That helps, the hot cases don't fly into my face anymore, but they do rain down on my head. Order the Apex Tactical extractor. Finally get it when they're back in stock. Another $70. At least its milled. Put it in. Can't get the old extractor depressor plunger spring seperated from the extractor depressor plunger and the spring-loaded bearing...but hey, I'm doing good to change out the extractor. So leave the old extractor depressor plunger spring in place and get the 26 back together (miracle!). It ejects 5 snap caps at 3 0'clock...hopeful sign. Take it to the range and run 50 of the SAME ammo through it and most eject at 4 o'clock, a few are close at 5 o'clock...but no hot brass to the face or raining on my head.

Can't tell you how thrilled I am to purchase a so called "quality product" for $640.00 and still have to spend another $120.00 to make it work...and spend time to figure out how and what to do to make it work....

And to top it off the manufacturer's customer no-service department did their job well and in fixing the problems I've probably voided the warranty big time.

Will I buy another Glock product? Don't think so. Gonna order that book too.

On the other hand I have owned dozens of Glocks and never had to buy any parts to make them work and that includes my Flawless Gen 4 models including one with 40,000 rounds fired.

Beretta92guy
12-01-2012, 14:12
I think the problems are being fixed, but Glock definitely dropped a few notches in my eyes. It never should have happened and I find it inexcusable.

I'm sticking with my mid 2000's gen 3 models.

wise words from bac......

before this happened there was Glock, and then there was JUNK....at least in my eyes.....

this is a company that has rested on its laurels and it "85% ownage of the LEO market"....(or whatever the percentage is now)......and now Smith/Wesson, SA are providing better alternatives now, while glock puts out a defective/crap product

just went to the gun shop this morning and did not even look at glocks.......

if/when they get this fixed i will be buying glocks again, but until that day none for me

dhgeyer
12-01-2012, 14:13
Well fine...I walked the story INEEDMILK laid out. Paid $640 for the new Glock 26 Gen 4. Out of the box the hot cases fly directly into my face. Start researching. Pay another $50 for a steel recoil spring assembly. That helps, the hot cases don't fly into my face anymore, but they do rain down on my head. Order the Apex Tactical extractor. Finally get it when they're back in stock. Another $70. At least its milled. Put it in. Can't get the old extractor depressor plunger spring seperated from the extractor depressor plunger and the spring-loaded bearing...but hey, I'm doing good to change out the extractor. So leave the old extractor depressor plunger spring in place and get the 26 back together (miracle!). It ejects 5 snap caps at 3 0'clock...hopeful sign. Take it to the range and run 50 of the SAME ammo through it and most eject at 4 o'clock, a few are close at 5 o'clock...but no hot brass to the face or raining on my head.

Can't tell you how thrilled I am to purchase a so called "quality product" for $640.00 and still have to spend another $120.00 to make it work...and spend time to figure out how and what to do to make it work....

And to top it off the manufacturer's customer no-service department did their job well and in fixing the problems I've probably voided the warranty big time.

Will I buy another Glock product? Don't think so. Gonna order that book too.

I buy my share of guns. Not like some, mind you. I've accepted the fact that, in the last few years, no matter what brand you buy you are likely to have to spend time and maybe money to make it what it should have been from the factory. Rugers, Smiths, Colts, Kahrs, even US Firearms, whatever. I could recite disappointing QC experiences with all of them.

To me it's just gotten to be part of the fun. Different outlook I guess.

Guns made before 1980 or so were different.

Beretta92guy
12-01-2012, 14:22
and im also glad to see more and more people posting on this.....

when it first started happening all the fanboy-junkies would start the name-calling and the "its YOU, not the gun" bunch of BS......no one could believe the greatest gun in the history of the world would be......gasp.........defective.....

the gun is DEFECTIVE, end-of-story....i think that is proven now!!!!

Riverkilt
12-01-2012, 14:24
Hey Clarkz71...it'll be most easy to avoid my LGS....I live in Page, Arizona - 135 miles from the nearest city....so paid what was about MSRP on line...small gun dept at a booze and bait shop in my little town. Understood the extra cost over the big city but I'd eat up the savings in gas driving to and from the big city. So works for me. Guy also provides unbelievable service in finding what I want. Just worth it for me. But, my point is - what I buy should work. I've bought 2 S&W, no problem, a Kel-Tec no problem, a Berreta no problem, even a NAA mouse gun no problem. Finally buy my first famous Glock and its an ordeal and Glock has NO interest in standing behind their products despite TWO YEARS of documented brass to the face on the Internet.
Grumble... More power to the guys who lucked out and got Glock products that actually work out of the box. Lucky you.

And for sure Beretta92Guy. NOTHING changed other than the parts. Same ammo, same shooter. And, I do so love my M9...

sharp
12-01-2012, 22:46
Hey Clarkz71...it'll be most easy to avoid my LGS....I live in Page, Arizona

Hey man, that's my home town!!!:cool:

Riverkilt
12-01-2012, 23:14
Well me too. Talkin' about Stix.

MotoGlock
12-01-2012, 23:32
wise words from bac......

before this happened there was Glock, and then there was JUNK....at least in my eyes.....

this is a company that has rested on its laurels and it "85% ownage of the LEO market"....(or whatever the percentage is now)......and now Smith/Wesson, SA are providing better alternatives now, while glock puts out a defective/crap product

just went to the gun shop this morning and did not even look at glocks.......

if/when they get this fixed i will be buying glocks again, but until that day none for me



I'm sorry, But this I can't not comment on.

You think the smith and wesson (m&ps I'm sure) and the SA (xd's I'm sure) are better alternatives?


Bbwwuuuuhaaaaaa. Haha. :rofl:
:rofl:


You're entitled to your opinion of course but don't post nonsense please. Maybe you can go post on XD talk. Lol

Edit: I am in to way excusing Glock for some of the problems and the way it's being handled. But that's not to say smiths and SA have done so much better.

Pier23
12-02-2012, 10:22
I downloaded the Kindle edition and read it on my computer and phone, depending on which was more convenient at the time. Anyway, it's disquieting to say the least. It doesn't make me feel good about owning Glocks. What a bunch of smarmy...... (and whatever I might say next would just be turned into a bunch of asterisks anyway, so I'll save the computer the trouble). They're a bunch of ******* and ******* and ********.

Of course they're very rich **********.

It is a very good book.

Glock, like all companies, has a problem...how do you innovate a mature product? What would make a person, or a LEO agency buy another or replacement Glock?

Glocks... no handgun..., wears out like a car. Most are fired a few thousand rounds in their lives, well within the engineering lifespan, and to reach THAT number of rounds could take decades.

So, you have to change _something_ to "improve" it.

The Sig forums have the same discussions...a premium is being paid for "original" Walther PPKs....I haven't seen one discussion in which a new handgun is deemed better than its replacement.

IMhO, it is a numbers game...is the cost of retrofitting what is in the pipeline costing more than absorbing the number of complaints which force action? It took me three tries to get a working PPK/S out of Smith...this is not unusual.

Ruger has a good Mini14 rifle, but a questionable Mini30... Same rifle but different caliber...what is the difference? Who knows...

Reportedly, profit margins for weapons..at least from the retail side, are very slim, so does a dollar saved on one piece make a difference? Dunno...ultimately the market sorts itself out ...another disruptive vendor will come out with another option for people to try and adopt. Glock then either improves or becomes another footnote.

Riverkilt
12-02-2012, 13:36
Thanks to help from this forum got the Apex Tactical extractor and spring installed. Just back from the range - ran 100 rounds of the same ammo through. First 6 rounds shot hot cases back at my face!! What's up with that? Worked great with the old glock spring and the Apex extractor, but the new Apex Tactical spring "restored" the original problem. But then...they started flying out at 4 and 5 o'clock. Swept up the other brass to check each mag's cases. Went out in the sand so it'd be easy to spot my fresh cases. Once past that first weirdo magazine the cases stayed at 4 o'clock and 5 o'clock...just sort of a clutter of them there - about 4 feet out. Shooting in the sand helped since there was no rolling around like on the cement at the main shooting stations. Was the only one there so it was safe.

Gotta give this now sorta-kinda Glock 26 its due. Since I was just shooting to see the case ejection pattern started shooting at the metal targets 100 yards out. Danged if I didn't hit the first 100 yard target with the first shot! Ran about 30 rounds at the 100 yard steel targets (duck sized targets)...hit a LOT and was real close on the rest. Didn't expect the Glock 26 to have that kind of accuracy at that range....well now its a Glock/Apex 26....

Which reminds me. My Apex extractor dealie did not have the word Apex on it...but still think it voids the Glock warranty.

Again, thanks for all the coaching and tips to help me get these changes made and a middle finger salute to Glock for their total lack of interest in correcting an obvious two year old "brass to face" problem themselves...

iLift45's
12-02-2012, 14:14
I'm not saying this is why, but...

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa479/Breadman03/a4f5eedd96b1204d59c3a3e5c58a0299.jpg

Yeah she finds him attractive. :rofl:

Getting ready to pick up my HK 45 this week!! Now this is as close to perfection as it comes. Can't wait!

thesilverbullet
01-24-2013, 18:20
what was the name of the SC dealer?

Riverkilt
01-24-2013, 18:39
Ellett Brothers