Why the Rifle? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Matthew Courtney
11-09-2012, 20:46
Most of the applications for which we might employ our black rifles, we could employ a handgun or shotgun. We have chosen to spend thousands on rifles. Why?

For me it is because I truly believe that the Rifle is the cornerstone of Liberty, the tangible thing that enables us to continue living as we do. I seek to pass on the customs and traditions which graced our people with such a richness of blessings that we endeavor(sometimes in folly) to share the blessings of Liberty with others. Only riflemen can benevolently shape the destiny of a people.

Breadman03
11-09-2012, 20:51
The pistol is just to get me to my rifle.

WoodenPlank
11-09-2012, 20:54
Range, accuracy, rate of fire.

ddbtoth
11-09-2012, 21:08
Still feeling the sting from the election, huh?

Osborne
11-09-2012, 21:14
Still feeling the sting from the election, huh?


And your not....?

expatman
11-09-2012, 21:16
Range, accuracy, rate of fire.

Do not forget volume of fire as well as terminal ballistics.

K. Foster
11-09-2012, 21:33
My rifle is not a toy, it is a tool. It is used to protect myself and my family. It can be used to provide meat for the table. It is used in training myself and others to better defend themselves and their freedoms. It is used for recreation and competition. If necessary, it is the final means of preserving the liberty of my country against invaders foreign and domestic. Owning an rifle insures that I will never be forced to live under tyranny and that I will always be free to make my own choices.

countrygun
11-09-2012, 21:43
Cooper said it be
besaid it best. 'It allows the user to precise apply kinetic energy at great distance..........a man so armed simply cannot be tyrannized"

iluv2viddyfilms
11-10-2012, 00:10
My rifle is not a toy, it is a tool. It is used to protect myself and my family. It can be used to provide meat for the table. It is used in training myself and others to better defend themselves and their freedoms. It is used for recreation and competition. If necessary, it is the final means of preserving the liberty of my country against invaders foreign and domestic. Owning an rifle insures that I will never be forced to live under tyranny and that I will always be free to make my own choices.

And when Obama comes to take it? Or will all the AR-15's be grandfathered in when he renews the ban like he says he wants to?

Angry Fist
11-10-2012, 00:14
I don't know. It's hard to get a 500 yard shot around here. Shotty is good enough.

MAC702
11-10-2012, 00:28
Cooper said it be
besaid it best. 'It allows the user to precise apply kinetic energy at great distance..........a man so armed simply cannot be tyrannized"

My favorite salient Cooper line: "Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons."

Berto
11-10-2012, 00:31
I can hit stuff farther away and much harder with a rifle. I like that option.

Panglоss
11-10-2012, 03:55
And when Obama comes to take it? Or will all the AR-15's be grandfathered in when he renews the ban like he says he wants to?

Feinstein's plan for a new assault weapons ban would include "no grandfathering".

I wonder if that means that ATF agents will be going door-to-door to collect non-compliant weapons..?

Boy, I'd hate to have that job.

Electrikkoolaid
11-10-2012, 04:11
I wonder if that means that ATF agents will be going door-to-door to collect non-compliant weapons..?

Nah. Everyone who turns in an evil black rifle will get a $25 iTunes gift card, and a chance to win an Xbox.

The lines for this will make the current gasoline rationing lines look like squat.

Ammo and primers will be taxed to oblivion, or banned outright due to "mercury pollution".

We are in the end times friend.

TangoFoxtrot
11-10-2012, 06:35
I use a pistol to fight my way to my rifle. The rifle is much more accurate for reaching out and touching someone than a pistol is. My pistol is only a back up to my rifle.

M&P15T
11-10-2012, 12:09
Yeah, the chances I would ever use my rifle for anything other than fun at the range are so small, it doesn't really bear contemplating.

Still, the time I spend at the range enjoying myself with it means I can use it well enough to defend myself in average SD/HD situations. Nothing that I couldn't do with a pistol most likely, though.

PrecisionRifleman
11-10-2012, 13:15
I don't know. It's hard to get a 500 yard shot around here. Shotty is good enough.

I use a 870 police and a 308 LTR. I figure there are going to be plenty of bullet sponges laying down suppressive fire with their AR15's should Shtf.

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WoodenPlank
11-10-2012, 13:19
I use a 870 police and a 308 LTR. I figure there are going to be plenty of bullet sponges laying down suppressive fire with their AR15's should Shtf.

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Right, because everyone with an AR-15 will resort to spraying lead everywhere.


Right?


:upeyes:

Angry Fist
11-10-2012, 13:47
I use a 870 police and a 308 LTR. I figure there are going to be plenty of bullet sponges laying down suppressive fire with their AR15's should Shtf.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)
:thumbsup:

PrecisionRifleman
11-10-2012, 14:00
Right, because everyone with an AR-15 will resort to spraying lead everywhere.


Right?


:upeyes:

I used a bolt action 308 (primary), M16 w/ 203, M249 SAW, Barrett m82, M249G, MK19, and 50cal crew served in the Corp. I think I have a damn good understanding of where the value of an AR15/M16 comes into play,but thanks for sharing your opinion which is based on.... what?

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)[/quote]



posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)


posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

PrecisionRifleman
11-10-2012, 14:06
deleted - Hub error

janice6
11-10-2012, 14:07
Because of 3,000 fps. KE is much greater.

Cole125
11-10-2012, 14:11
I like the idea of having more firepower than most any criminal and as much firepower as the police.

Plus black rifles are just a lot of ****ing fun! :cool:

TBO
11-10-2012, 14:15
Why the rifle?
So we can have discussions on:

AR brand ranking
Mil-spec
Over gassing
Etc

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

surf
11-10-2012, 14:22
Range, accuracy, rate of fire.

Do not forget volume of fire as well as terminal ballistics.These are correct. Anyone who thinks that a pistol caliber is nearly as effective as a rifle caliber in stopping a threat is very uneducated on the topic. Of course there are times when rifles are not permissive or practical, but when the opportunity is there, the first choice should be a long gun.

WoodenPlank
11-10-2012, 14:25
I used a bolt action 308 (primary), M16 w/ 203, M249 SAW, Barrett m82, M249G, MK19, and 50cal crew served in the Corp. I think I have a damn good understanding of where the value of an AR15/M16 comes into play,but thanks for sharing your opinion which is based on.... what?

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)


I get the feeling you misinterpreted my sarcastic reponse to your comment about bullet sponges.

PrecisionRifleman
11-10-2012, 14:32
I get the feeling you misinterpreted my sarcastic reponse to your comment about bullet sponges.


My apology sir. I jumped the gun there.
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WoodenPlank
11-10-2012, 14:33
My apology sir. I jumped the gun there.
posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)


Apology accepted. :wavey:

M&P15T
11-10-2012, 14:50
My apology sir. I jumped the gun there.
posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Apology accepted. :wavey:

Get it?

Get it?

Jumped "the gun"?:rofl::rofl: That's very punny.

Kinda like "jumped the shark".
















Sorry, I'm sick and on a lot of Tylenol Cold Sore Throat, kinda loopy.

countrygun
11-10-2012, 14:59
My favorite salient Cooper line: "Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons."

I considered that for my signature line a long time ago:cool:

Matthew Courtney
11-10-2012, 16:14
Why the rifle?
So we can have discussions on:

AR brand ranking
Mil-spec
Over gassing
Etc

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

Did you have to accessorize your boot to make it smart phone compatible, or is there an app for that?:tongueout:

Matthew Courtney
11-10-2012, 16:21
Apology accepted. :wavey:

WP, meet PR.

PR, meet WP.

Both of you are great resources here, and I am glad you guys sorted things our. There are plenty of ninjas out there that need, ...... Hang on a sec, gotta grab the phone......

Great! Just hung up with the Asian Sensitivity Society(ASS). They are offended that we use the term "ninja" as a perjoritive. Gues its time to kick a little...
:rofl:

Gunnut 45/454
11-10-2012, 18:32
A pistol may end the fight- a rifle will end the fight! Seen many things die by both. The rifle shot victim alway dies faster! Of course it always matters where one is shot as well.
Also I'm a better rifle shooter then I am a pistol shooter. Even better with a shoty.:supergrin:

WoodenPlank
11-10-2012, 19:22
Get it?

Get it?

Jumped "the gun"?:rofl::rofl: That's very punny.

Kinda like "jumped the shark".




Sorry, I'm sick and on a lot of Tylenol Cold Sore Throat, kinda loopy.

You don't seem any different than usual to me... :whistling:

WP, meet PR.

PR, meet WP.

Both of you are great resources here, and I am glad you guys sorted things our. There are plenty of ninjas out there that need, ...... Hang on a sec, gotta grab the phone......

Great! Just hung up with the Asian Sensitivity Society(ASS). They are offended that we use the term "ninja" as a perjoritive. Gues its time to kick a little...
:rofl:


I'll get the cattle prod... :supergrin:

Sporaticus
11-10-2012, 19:58
From time to time, I drive through N Dallas, and I don't drive through N Dallas without a rifle, numerous magazines, and lotsa ammo.

fnfalman
11-10-2012, 20:09
Why the rifle? I can shoot it a lot faster and easier than handguns with more powerful rounds.

TBO
11-10-2012, 21:17
Why the rifle?

Chuck Connor /]

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

Angry Fist
11-10-2012, 21:50
A pistol may end the fight- a rifle will end the fight! Seen many things die by both. The rifle shot victim alway dies faster! Of course it always matters where one is shot as well.
Also I'm a better rifle shooter then I am a pistol shooter. Even better with a shotty.:supergrin:
The world is a better place since I don't reload.... :supergrin:

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz13/MO_FUGGAZ/Saiga3.jpg

dakrat
11-10-2012, 22:43
Why the rifle? I can shoot it a lot faster and easier than handguns with more powerful rounds.

ding ding ding :perfect10:.

with the right ammunition, a .223 has less penetration and more carnage than a 9mm

plouffedaddy
11-10-2012, 22:57
Why? Well the screen shot picture below may help. I've been doing a lot of ballistic gel testing lately and this is my properly calibrated 16x6x6 gel block as a 223 64gr Gold Dot round impacted it. The block was taped down with 100mph tape and had 4 layers of denim (the stuff flying) on it. Tough to get that kind of energy response from a typical handgun SD round.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/DSC00228.jpg

dakrat
11-11-2012, 11:13
Why? Well the screen shot picture below may help. I've been doing a lot of ballistic gel testing lately and this is my properly calibrated 16x6x6 gel block as a 223 64gr Gold Dot round impacted it. The block was taped down with 100mph tape and had 4 layers of denim (the stuff flying) on it. Tough to get that kind of energy response from a typical handgun SD round.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/DSC00228.jpg

well done Sir. well done.

Darkangel1846
11-11-2012, 11:36
The pistol is just to get me to my rifle.

the best line.:wavey:

surf
11-11-2012, 12:41
Speed kills. With terminal ballistics, velocity is your friend. Pistol caliber rounds lack it.

TBO
11-11-2012, 15:36
Speed is fine, accuracy is final.

Sent from the toe of my jack boot using Tapatalk 2

ithaca_deerslayer
11-11-2012, 20:18
I wanted a rifle that could shoot accurately with multiple shots at distance. I didn't want recoil or ammo costs to be too much. Wanted a relatively flat shooter that was lethal on woodchucks, coyotes, targets, and up to deer sized animals.

I did not need a dedicated deer rifle, so leaned more toward target.

For target, I wanted to either work on iron sighted shooting, or scope it.

What else besides an AR fits this description?

Having it resemble the M-16 profile was a plus.

countrygun
11-11-2012, 20:34
I wanted a rifle that could shoot accurately with multiple shots at distance. I didn't want recoil or ammo costs to be too much. Wanted a relatively flat shooter that was lethal on woodchucks, coyotes, targets, and up to deer sized animals.

I did not need a dedicated deer rifle, so leaned more toward target.

For target, I wanted to either work on iron sighted shooting, or scope it.

What else besides an AR fits this description?

Having it resemble the M-16 profile was a plus.



Not being an AR fan it is difficult for me to sdmit but if you want effective on deer sized game and at a distance but want something less than a .308, the ARs in one of the 6.5 rounds has a lot going for it.


IE .260 Rem, Creedmore, etc.

surf
11-12-2012, 01:15
Uhhh, speed as in the velocity of the bullet.....

Accuracy without speed is useless if you opponent is just as accurate but faster.

WayaX
11-12-2012, 14:22
Accuracy without speed is useless if you opponent is just as accurate but faster.

This is why I find it hard to get behind the "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" mentality.

expatman
11-12-2012, 14:28
I have found "slow is smooth and smooth is fast" to be more of a training mantra.

Once it settles into your brain the fast part happens naturally.

WayaX
11-12-2012, 14:37
I have found "slow is smooth and smooth is fast" to be more of a training mantra.

Once it settles into your brain the fast part happens naturally.

Fast makes fast. Fast and unsmooth (rough?) will be beat by fast and smooth (which is more efficient). Fast and smooth are not the same thing, but both are crucial for shooting. Training or not, that is why I dislike the phrase. Many people get stuck on being smooth and never really apply it. I've seen it in other shooters, and I've been there myself (the martial arts suffer from the same phrase, as well).

Anyway, back on topic.

The rifle is the most versatile of weapons. It can go from 3 yards, to 30 yards, to 300 yards without any changes. It can be used to take any size of game (caliber dependent).

expatman
11-12-2012, 14:44
I disagree. When you start off slow it keeps mistakes to a minimum thus making you smooth. The smoother you are with less mistakes on the draw (grip, cover garment, etc...) then the faster you will be. It works plain and simple.

The goal is not to remain slow forever. The goal is to concentrate on what you are doing so that you become fast.

But, as you say, back to the topic.

surf
11-12-2012, 17:47
Sorry I somewhat induced another side bar when I said speed kills, in reference to the speed or velocity of the round being a critical wounding or stopping factor. Apparently some Joker applied that to the old suck ass mantra "speed is fine, accuracy is final" quote. Yes I have a lot to say on that topic and on the "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" saying also, but since that is off track, I will refrain.

I will however add something that is pretty well known among people with a lot of knowledge on terminal ballistics and wounding factors in living tissue. For those that don't I have come across a video that offers some very good insight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA