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mc1911
11-10-2012, 10:44
I do not accept any responsibility for my load if used by others.

In MY 23 my go to load is 5.8 grains of WSF and a Lee tumble lube 175 grain truncated cone bullet for a measured 950 fps.

Poohgyrr
01-07-2013, 13:29
I don't remember my favorite 40S&W load, but I use bulk Winchester 180 JHP's, AA7 powder. Book loads that test about 950 fps.

SDGlock23
01-13-2013, 20:10
One of the most consistent loads I've tried is 4.4gr of TiteGroup (180gr FMJ/JHP) @ 1.130" and does right at 900 fps from a G23.

Power Pistol is a personal favorite, very consistent and good for "normal" level loads. Here's what I got:
(bone stock G23 Gen4, CCI SP primers)

180gr Gold Dot, 7.2gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1065 fps avg

165gr Gold Dot, 8.0gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1154 fps avg (8 fps extreme spread!)

155gr Rem JHP, 9.0 gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1246 fps avg

135gr Nosler JHP, 10.0gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1,372 fps avg

7.2gr Power Pistol and 6.5gr Unique will both do about 1150 from a Glock 35 and right around 1200 fps from a G24 (6" bbl).

8.5gr of Longshot (**6% over book**) will shoot a 180gr XTP at an average of 1,330 fps from a 6" bbl. Warm and very consistent, 15fps extreme spread.

**I worked this load up, and I use it in an aftermarket KKM barrel**

I have tons of load data I've worked up.

SDGlock23
01-19-2013, 10:04
I've found Longshot to have a certain characteristic about it. I've had some for a while now and what always bummed me out about Longshot was that it just seemed like I could never get out of it what Hodgdon claimed. I would load up to book max and even in a longer barrel would come up noticeably short in velocity. Not only that, but often the velocity would be erratic with wide spreads. Driving it faster seems to make it more consistent.

Keep in mind I run these loads through my Gen4 G35 with a 6" G24 KKM barrel installed. It has better case support than the stock barrel and the added length is a plus. I used to load for the 10mm but recently got rid of it, and I've been keeping my eye on what 10mm guys are doing in their setups for quite some time.

One thing you'll notice right off the bat is that most who load for the 10mm end up buying aftermarket barrels for their 10mm (often 6") and then they start in with their "warm" handloads. Go on over to the 10mm reloading section and see for yourself, there are loads listed there that are anywhere from 10% to 25% over book max charges.

As with all things, this is a topic of debate, but I feel (as do others) that the .40 S&W case is stronger than the 10mm case. Notice how all three cartridges, one based off the 10mm, one based off the .40, have a different max PSI rating. 10mm is rated at 37,500 PSI, the .40 S&W is rated at 35,000 PSI and the 357 Sig is rated at 40,000 PSI. But why?

Here is my question, why isn't the .40 also rated the same as the 357 Sig? Why isn't the .40 rated, at the very least, the same as the 10mm? I know that the .40 case isn't any weaker than the 10mm or 357 Sig case.

The .40 and 357 Sig use small primer pockets while the 10mm uses a large primer pocket. To keep it short and sweet, there's more material in the case of the .40 and 357 Sig than there is the 10mm, and more material means more support. Additionally, the .40 was originally rated for 35K PSI and several years later it was beefed up, but the 35K rating never changed, and hasn't so far. IMHO, there's no reason the .40 shouldn't be rated for 40K PSI as well.

What I'm getting at is this, 10mm guys are loading well beyond book max in a case that's not quite as strong as the .40. What I've been messing around with for quite some time is doing the same thing as the 10mm guys do with their 10's, but instead I'm using a .40. I've gotten some very interesting results, but I've already come to the conclusion that there aren't too many loading the .40 to what it's capable of.

Back to Longshot, I've figured out that in the .40 you need to go slightly over book with LS to make it come alive. Please note, my results are from my setup and I DO NOT advise anybody to use my data in their gun, it's not plug and play. You can use my data for reference, but if you decide to get the most out of your .40, first off work up your loads and secondly make sure you have an aftermarket barrel with better case support. A heavier recoil spring is recommended as well (22-24lb) and a comp would help out too.

I haven't messed around a lot with 135gr or 200gr in Longshot, but I have some interesting figures for the rest. I use CCI SP primers and 1x Federal ("Federal" stamped, do not use "FC" stamped) brass. Velocities are averages from the 6" G24 KKM bbl. NOTE: I feel 10% over book is about it, don't go beyond. As you see, there's no reason to push it further.

180gr Montana Gold JHP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.130" = 1,327 fps (approx 6% over book max)

180gr Montana Gold JHP, 8.8gr Longshot @ 1.125" = 1,402 fps (10% over book) That's 786 ft-lbs!

165gr Gold Dot, 9.0gr* Longshot @ 1.130" = 1,412 fps (See * below)

165gr Gold Dot, 9.5gr* Longshot @ 1.130" = 1,485 fps / 808 ft-lbs!

155gr Rem JHP, 10.8gr Longshot @ 1.125" = 1,554 fps (8% over book max) That's 831 ft-lbs!

*Hodgdon data is low for the 165gr, but I know why. They use the 165gr Sierra JHP, which is a rather long 165gr JHP. The 165gr Gold Dot is considerably shorter. Based on what Hodgdon claims for the other bullet weights, I calculated that a 165gr Longshot charge should be around 9.0-9.2gr.

As I mentioned earlier, a lot of the "book" Longshot loads weren't very consistent, but driven a little harder the numbers got a whole better and the velocity spread tightened down a whole lot too. Longshot is a fairly slow burning powder and it meters very well also, which is a plus, and it's somewhat common too. Maybe this will inform some people of what the .40 is capable of.

SDGlock23
01-20-2013, 15:26
Same warning applies, this is my data in my setup. You can use it for reference, but if you look to load some for yourself, work up the loads in your gun.

Gen4 G35 w/KKM G24 (6") bbl. Once fired Federal brass and CCI SP primers. About 40 degrees outside.

135gr Nosler JHP, 12.6gr Longshot @ 1.125" : 1,849 fps avg / 1,026 ft-lbs (31 fps ES)

200gr Hornady XTP, 7.7gr 800x @ 1.130": 1,228 fps avg.

Shot the 200gr XTP into some water jugs, penetrated 5 jugs and bounced off the sixth. Mushroomed nicely and penetrated well, most don't make it past the 4th jug.

bmoore
01-21-2013, 14:33
11.0 grains of Bluedot under 180grn bullet. 10mm.

SDGlock23
01-24-2013, 09:38
Speaking of Blue Dot, I have some but have yet to load too many for it. But I have done a few. I do know that, like most loads, it's all about finding the sweet spot. Even some minor OAL variations can make a difference.

When I loaded for the 10mm, 10.5gr of BD would get me around 1150 fps from a stock G20sf. The stock barrel would work the brass pretty good though and put some Glock-belly on it.

In the G35, a 180gr MG JHP, 9.0gr Blue Dot @ 1.100": 1,201 fps (nicely consistent, 13 fps ES). The same bullet loaded to 1.125" was slightly slower but definitely less consistent.

For 200gr Nosler JHP, 8.5gr Blue Dot @ 1.130": 1,165 fps (52 ES)

ss30378
01-31-2013, 10:09
SD thanks for posting all this data, longshot seems to be the cats meow for the 40/10mm bore. I've gone up to 8.2 grains of PP under a zero 180 grain bullet at 1.150 and got 1375 fps out of my 24. Mine still has the stock barrel but has a shocking amount of case support. Probably the best i've ever seen for a glock and on par with most aftermarket barrels ive looked at.

SDGlock23
02-01-2013, 12:13
SD thanks for posting all this data, longshot seems to be the cats meow for the 40/10mm bore. I've gone up to 8.2 grains of PP under a zero 180 grain bullet at 1.150 and got 1375 fps out of my 24. Mine still has the stock barrel but has a shocking amount of case support. Probably the best i've ever seen for a glock and on par with most aftermarket barrels ive looked at.

No problem SS, glad someone enjoyed it :) I LOVE Power Pistol but so far I've only used book loads with it in the .40. I'll have to work up some loads for it, but that still got me almost 1100 fps from my 4" G23. 1,375 fps for that 180gr is impressive for sure, and one thing I've noticed in the past with Power Pistol is that it's very consistent.

Is your G24 a newer model? My Gen4 G35 has pretty good case support too, but I will say the newer .40's have much better support than older ones. I just decided to use the G24 KKM barrel since it was a tad tighter plus the extra length helped give some more velocity. I've recently wondered what the LW 9" barrel would go velocity wise, but that's $150 I don't need to spend right now!

Cwlongshot
02-01-2013, 12:36
In my G23 40 cal I like the 180 Speer GD and Blue Dot powder.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Targets%20and%20such/3f8c286d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Targets%20and%20such/b96b401f.jpg

In my G20 10MM I like 200XTP and 175 ST. With Longshot powder.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Targets%20and%20such/713a288e.jpg


CW

ss30378
02-04-2013, 09:50
No problem SS, glad someone enjoyed it :) I LOVE Power Pistol but so far I've only used book loads with it in the .40. I'll have to work up some loads for it, but that still got me almost 1100 fps from my 4" G23. 1,375 fps for that 180gr is impressive for sure, and one thing I've noticed in the past with Power Pistol is that it's very consistent.

Is your G24 a newer model? My Gen4 G35 has pretty good case support too, but I will say the newer .40's have much better support than older ones. I just decided to use the G24 KKM barrel since it was a tad tighter plus the extra length helped give some more velocity. I've recently wondered what the LW 9" barrel would go velocity wise, but that's $150 I don't need to spend right now!

Yes my 24 was bought new about a month ago. I may still go a kkm or fitted barrel to shoot lead out of it. The glock chamber has more support but it's still a loose chamber so it's not optimal for accuracy. That 9" barrel seems so long that i'd have to add a stock to the gun just to feel right i think. But it would be cool to see how fast those bullets would go with some of the slower powders.

SDGlock23
02-17-2013, 12:35
Not sure how many have any VV 3N38, but it does well:

(Gen4 G35 w/6" KKM G24 bbl)

165gr Gold Dot, 10.7gr 3N38 @ 1.150" : 1,392 fps avg (7 fps ES!)

175gr Win STHP, 9.8gr 3N38 @ 1.140": 1,288 fps avg (17 fps ES!) 645 ft-lbs (Winchester claims 1290 for their 10mm load, yet only does about 1150 fps, here I'm getting it!)

180gr LaserCast RNFP hardcast (.38-40 bullet), 9.8gr 3N38 @ 1.135": 1,338 fps avg (9 fps ES!) 715 ft-lbs

180gr Hornady XTP, 9.5gr 3N38 @ 1.150" : 1,269 fps avg (13 fps ES!)

200gr WFNGC, 8.5gr 3N38 @ 1.150" : 1,195 fps avg (10 fps ES!)

If you want to make your .40 feel like a 9mm -P, 3.8gr TiteGroup with a 180gr @ 1.140". So soft it almost tickles.

SDGlock23
02-25-2013, 12:24
Here are a few more, ran through the stock G35 Gen4 (5.3" bbl)

180gr FMJ, 6.2gr AutoComp @ 1.125": 1,035 fps (4 FPS ES!!!)

180gr MG JHP, 8.3gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1,260 fps

180gr MG JHP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1, 271 fps

165gr Gold Dot, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1. 130": 1,310 fps

155gr Rem JHP, 10.5gr Longshot @ 1.125": 1,408 fps

Not as fast as what I get from the 6" KKM barrel, but good nonetheless. Brass looked okay. Yes there was some Glock belly on the brass, but it happened on all loads, not just the warm Longshot loads.

SDGlock23
04-06-2013, 17:13
Few small goodies from today. Shooting Gen4 G27, velocities are averages:

180gr FMJ, 4.4gr TiteGroup @ 1.125": 857 fps

180gr MG JHP, 5.8gr WSF @ 1.125": 930 fps

180gr MG JHP, 6.3gr AutoComp @ 1.125": 996 fps

180gr MG JHP, 6.5gr Unique @ 1.125": 1,022 fps (13 fps ES)

180gr MG JHP, 7.2gr Power Pistol @ 1.120": 1,044 fps (19 fps ES)

180gr Rem JHP, 9.0gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130" : 1,091 fps

165gr Gold Dot, 10.2gr VV 3N38 @ 1.125": 1,188 fps

155gr XTP, 9.0gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1,196 fps (7 fps ES)

155gr Rem JHP, 11.0gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,263 fps

135gr Nos JHP, 11.2gr 800x @ 1.125": 1,388 fps

happie2shoot
04-07-2013, 06:05
SDGlock23 I wish you lived in the Boise Idaho area.
I have a mod.27 and want to try some cast 175 lee in
it with Longshot, still waiting on the mold to get here.
I have a LW 4.059'' threaded barrel and am getting a
4.6'' LW threaded barrel to get more fps. Keep sending
all information, please.
I normally shoot mag. revolvers but am going to try the
lighter Glocks for a trail gun, am also building a 460 Rowland
on a mod. 30, still waiting on the barrels for it too.
Can't wait to try them on deer this year.

SDGlock23
04-07-2013, 11:10
SDGlock23 I wish you lived in the Boise Idaho area.
I have a mod.27 and want to try some cast 175 lee in
it with Longshot, still waiting on the mold to get here.
I have a LW 4.059'' threaded barrel and am getting a
4.6'' LW threaded barrel to get more fps. Keep sending
all information, please.
I normally shoot mag. revolvers but am going to try the
lighter Glocks for a trail gun, am also building a 460 Rowland
on a mod. 30, still waiting on the barrels for it too.
Can't wait to try them on deer this year.

Will do! I have a few more I'm about to post up with Longshot from the G27 today. I haven't messed with any 175gr hardcasts, but I do have some data for the 170gr SWC hardcast, it's as follows:

(This data was taken from a 6" KKM barrel. With a 175gr hardcast I would drop charge to around 8.0gr and work up. Velocity is average)

170gr SWC, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1.125": 1,449 fps (20 fps ES!) That's 792 ft-lbs.

I just noticed that I don't have any data for 180gr hardcasts with Longshot. VV 3N38 and 800x both got almost 1,350 fps from the 6" KKM, but strangely enough I don't have any using Longshot. I'll have to remedy that.

Good luck on that 460 Rowland! I would imagine working with 250-280gr hardcasts in that would be awesome.

SDGlock23
04-07-2013, 11:17
Okay, I got to run a few more this afternoon through the G27 Gen4. This time my main goal was to see what Longshot can do. Here it goes, working up from 8.0gr.

(Precision Delta 180gr FMJ used, 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers)

180gr FMJ, 8.2gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1,125 fps (22 fps ES!)
180gr FMJ, 8.4gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1,104 fps (28 fps ES)
180gr FMJ, 8.6gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1,128 fps (21 fps ES!)

Brass looked good. Some "bulge" but even the 4.4gr TG load put some bulge in the brass. The chamber support for the newer .40's is quite a bit better than it used to be...not KKM good, but not bad for stock.

From the looks of things, 8.2gr is good enough. .4gr more powder (the 8.6gr load) only averaged 3 fps faster. .2gr more (8.4gr load) actually got slower, which I've seen before when I used to load for the 10mm. All in all, a 180gr bullet moving at 1,125 fps (506 ft-lbs) from a 3.5" barrel is pretty good!

I would imagine it would be a dandy woods load suitable for deer sized game using a good JHP.

SDGlock23
04-14-2013, 13:13
Some from the stock G23. All velocities are averages.

TiteGroup:

4.4gr TiteGroup, 180gr FMJ @ 1.125": 951 fps (5 fps extreme spread!) That was using heavier 22lb recoil spring.

4.4gr TiteGroup, 180gr FMJ @ 1.125": 907 fps (4 fps extreme spread!) This was using stock Gen4 RSA, same load but about 45 fps slower with the stock RSA.

200gr Rainier RNFP, 3.8gr TiteGroup @ 1.140": 834 fps (4 fps ES!)

200gr Missouri TCFP, 3.8gr TiteGroup @ 1.140": 874 fps (7 fps ES!!)

800X:

7.0gr 800x, 200gr Nosler JHP @ 1.135": 999 fps (4 fps ES!)

Longshot: I did run a few loads through the G23 but several were not nearly as consistent as others, even wildly so, so I will work on those. However,

8.2gr Longshot, 180gr FMJ @ 1.130": 1,152 fps (42 fps ES)

8.5gr Longshot, 170gr Missouri SWC @ 1.130": 1,246 fps (71 fps ES...not very consistent)

Power Pistol:

8.0gr Power Pistol, 170gr SWC @ 1.125": 1,202 fps (45 fps ES...better than Longshot but higher than typical for PP)

I've got some more loads using VV 3N38 with the G23 than turned out quite well, I'll post those up shortly!

SDGlock23
04-17-2013, 18:17
One of my favorite .40 powders, VV 3N38...hard to come by but worth it.

Stock Glock 23 Gen4 (4" bbl):

170gr Missouri SWC, 9.7gr VV 3N38 @ ~1.130": 1,233 fps (21 fps ES!)

180gr RNFP (38-40 hardcast), 9.4gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,171 fps (6 FPS ES!!)

200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.2gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,061 fps (21 fps ES!)

Very consistent and packs a punch! The 38-40 style RNFP hardcast I feel is a great choice for deep penetration on game. It's got a fairly good sized meplat on it and single digit extreme spreads...almost 1,200 fps with a 180gr from a 4" barrel. From 6" G24 barrel this load does 1,340 fps.

The 200gr Beartooth would be another fantastic hunting bullet. Hopefully somebody can get some use out of this :thumbsup:

happie2shoot
04-19-2013, 20:41
Thank you SDGlock23 for this data, I can't wait to get my barrels and moulds.

happie2shoot
04-19-2013, 20:43
I want to thank you others that posted your data too.

happie2shoot
04-19-2013, 22:52
what do you 40 cal. guys think of this

RERUN-Mihec-10mm-200gr-WFN-40s-amp-w-180gr-HP-4-cavity-Brass

hope the link works

mc1911
04-20-2013, 16:02
Have any of you used Universal in a 40?

I had one load that blew a primer behind a 175 grain cast in a lone Wolf barrel. It was from a manual, but I will not state what it was in this forum.

SDGlock23
05-03-2013, 15:27
Got my KKM G23 in the mail earlier this week and I've been itchin' to try it out. Fairly nice day, around 70 degrees so here's a few from this afternoon, all using 1x Winchester brass and CCI SP primers:

180gr RNFP hardcast, 9.8gr VV 3N38 @ 1.135": 1,226 fps (26 fps ES) That's 600 ft-lbs from a 4" barrel.

180gr RNFP hardcast, 8.5gr 800x @ 1.135": 1,197 fps (12 fps ES!!)

180gr MG JHP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1,208 fps (18 fps ES!)

200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.5gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,088 fps (13 fps ES!!) That's 525 ft-lbs with a 200gr hardcast from a 4" bbl.

220gr SNS TCFP, 6.8gr 800x @ 1.145" (1x Rem, CCI SP): 997 fps (14 fps ES!!)

135gr Nosler JHP, 10.5gr Power Pistol @ 1.120" (1x Fed, CCI SP): 1,424 fps

Little bit of a mixed bag, but all shot very well and all were very consistent. The 180gr RNFP is a 38-40 style revolver bullet but I like it because one it's hardcast and two it's got a fairly good sized meplat on it for use on game.

happie2shoot
05-05-2013, 15:01
180gr RNFP hardcast, 9.8gr VV 3N38 @ 1.135": 1,226 fps (26 fps ES) That's 600 ft-lbs from a 4" barrel.


Look's like I need some 3N38, thank's for the data, I do have some longshot.

SDGlock23
05-12-2013, 18:54
Yes 3N38 is very good powder, not the easiest to find, but it's super consistent and very slow burning. You will run out of room for powder before you see pressure signs.

happie2shoot
05-12-2013, 23:25
This is 1 of the molds I am getting.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?196412-10mm-40s-amp-w-170gr-150gr-(135gr-HP)-WFN-4-cav-Brass-Miha


Blueprint with -6gr "Penta" HP:


"Penta" HP blueprint:


Round hp blueprint:


LINK TO THE DISCUSSION FORUM THREAD

SDGlock23
05-18-2013, 07:49
Looks interesting! One thing I lack is bullet casting, I may have to start up.

SDGlock23
05-19-2013, 19:33
I had the urge to run a few through my gen4 G27 today. I wanted to try a good 200gr hardcast load, and try a few using Blue Dot, a powder I have several pounds of but never have messed with it much. Humid out and around 75 degrees.

Glock 27 Gen4 (stock)

200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.4gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,032 fps (4 fps ES!!)

180gr MG JHP, 8.9gr Blue Dot @ 1.120": 1,050 fps (3 fps ES!!)

180gr MG JHP, 9.3gr Blue Dot @ 1.120": 1,097 fps (16 fps ES, 5% over book)

Now these probably aren't what you would load up if you're looking for easy recoil and super fast follow up shots, but they do pack a punch since remember, these are coming from a 3.5" barrel.

Brass had some swelling, but even factory ammo had it so I'm not concerned, just the typical stuff.

happie2shoot
05-19-2013, 23:12
Thanks for the info on the mod.27.

I posted on the 21 club about some bullets for the 460 that
you are playing with, if you are in the USA I will send you
some to try.
I now think I will have to get a 275gr fn like the one your
shooting, looks so good.
By the way you are right Yahshua does save.

Symmetry
05-23-2013, 17:13
My favorite would be just about anything I load up using Vihtavuori N350. Low smoke, low flash, very clean, and extremely accurate and consistent:

Out of a Sig P229 4" barrel:
1) Rainier 165gr RSFP: 1.125" COAL / 8.6gn -> 1063fps
2) Rainier 180gr JHP: 1.125" COAL / 6.0gn -> 945fps
3) Speer 180gr TMJ: 1.125" COAL / 6.2gn -> 947fps
4) Speer 165gr GD: 1.125" COAL / 7.5gn -> 1108fps
5) Speer 180gr GD: 1.125" COAL / 6.4gn -> 998fps

Obviously I don't over charge my handloads. I try to match the performance of factory loads.

SDGlock23
05-28-2013, 09:55
A couple through the Glock 35. Data is from a stock Gen4 Glock 35.

180gr Gold Dot, 9.3gr Blue Dot @ 1.130": 1,150 fps (4 fps ES!)

180gr MG JHP, 9.3gr Blue Dot @ 1.120": 1,185 fps (28 fps ES) MG = Montana Gold

180gr Gold Dot, 8.4gr Longshot @ 1.125": 1,268 fps (6 fps ES!)


By the way you are right Yahshua does save.

Amen!

SDGlock23
06-01-2013, 14:51
I ran some more today, just had the itch to do it so I figured why not. I loaded up the Chrony and headed to the backyard for some testing, this time using some Vihta Vouri 3N38.

Shot through a stock Gen4 Glock 35. Velocity listed is the average and all loads used once fired Winchester brass and CCI SP primers. While these ran perfectly from my stock G35, back off at least .5gr in your gun starting out.

175gr Winchester STHP, 9.7gr 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,262 fps (a sweet 7 fps extreme spread!)

180gr RNFP hardcast, 9.4gr 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,279 fps (an even sweeter 6 fps ES!)

180gr RNFP hardcast, 9.6gr 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,303 fps (31 fps ES)

200gr Beartooth WFNGC hardcast, 8.4gr 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,161 fps ( 21 fps ES)

There you have it. I'm sure some people roll their eyes at me when I mention that a 10mm isn't needed and that a .40 can do anything a 10mm can in terms of taking game, but it's true. The G35 is a great platform for it too with the same capacity as a G20, has a longer sight radius plus it's thinner and weighs less (not to mention the brass availability issue). I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a Gen4 G24 whenever Glock decides to make a few :)

No feeding issues and brass looked okay, nothing alarming at all. VV 3N38 is just slow enough to get really good velocity but not so slow as to run out of room in the .40 case which hurts velocity potential (ahem, like AA9).

As for the bullets, either hardcast load above would be very effective on game, and I'd be hard pressed to choose between the two myself. The 180gr is faster and while it has a good meplat, the 200gr WFNGC has the best profile of the two, so that's why it's a tough choice. Speaking of which, the 180gr RNFP hardcast bullets are from Laser Cast and are designed for 38-40 revolvers, but I chose them because their profile works in a semi-auto plus it has a good sized meplat compared to most other 180gr hardcasts.

Montana bullet works has some sweet looking 38-40 style offerings with an even larger meplat, but who knows someday I might pony up the cash to try a few out. But for now I don't see it as being a top priority. If I could get a 180gr WFNGC with the same profile as the 200gr WFNGC from Beartooth, that would be ideal IMHO (anybody from Beartooth reading this? Pllleeaaaase??!!)

Any chance this can be a sticky? :) :wavey:

Bilrus61
06-01-2013, 18:44
If that was a stock Glock how does the longer KKM in .40 do? Is it faster or slower than the stock/shorter barrel? The stock barrel has a much faster twist. Is there more torque when you shoot a heavy lead bullet compared to the slower twist KKM?

I have a G24 with the KKM .40 barrel. I seem to get the "feeling" there is a bit less torque when I shoot with the KKM over the much faster twist Glock barrel. I've wondered if the accuracy gain seen in KKM barrels over factory in a Glock is due to the slower twist and less torque. I note that the Glock .45s have a much more normal twist of 1-16 and they are considered to be the "most accurate factory Glock". Do you know WHY glock puts out such super fast twist in there 9mm and .40sw barrels? Thanks for all the effort and your posts. Very informative. I appreciate your efforts.

happie2shoot
06-03-2013, 22:33
Looks interesting! One thing I lack is bullet casting, I may have to start up.

I am lacking many things

I shot some 40s&w Saturday and my oal was 1.160 and I checked and I think it will feed an oal of 1.175, have you
tried any longer than 1.130.

I used 3 diferent barrels in the G27, the oem barrel and a LW
4.060 threaded and a 4.6 threaded.

happie2shoot
06-03-2013, 22:39
I am thinking that the 175+grain bullets could go faster if seated longer +
more powder, I think it would be worth throating your barrel if need be.

All three of mine fed at that oal.

I wish my mold would hurry up and get here.

SDGlock23
06-05-2013, 07:32
If that was a stock Glock how does the longer KKM in .40 do? Is it faster or slower than the stock/shorter barrel? The stock barrel has a much faster twist. Is there more torque when you shoot a heavy lead bullet compared to the slower twist KKM?

I have a G24 with the KKM .40 barrel. I seem to get the "feeling" there is a bit less torque when I shoot with the KKM over the much faster twist Glock barrel. I've wondered if the accuracy gain seen in KKM barrels over factory in a Glock is due to the slower twist and less torque. I note that the Glock .45s have a much more normal twist of 1-16 and they are considered to be the "most accurate factory Glock". Do you know WHY glock puts out such super fast twist in there 9mm and .40sw barrels? Thanks for all the effort and your posts. Very informative. I appreciate your efforts.


Sorry for the late reply, the KKM barrel does indeed speed things up a bit. Generally speaking, I've found that a better supported barrel with conventional rifling does increase velocity even if it is the same length as the Glock barrel. Get this, my 3" Kahr CM40, which is very well support and does have traditional rifling will consistently average faster than my 3.5" Glock 27!

Depending on powder I see more of a jump between barrel lengths, because for whatever reason 3N38 doesn't react quite as much to barrel changes as other powders do (like Longshot or 800x), plus heavier bullets in general don't react as much to barrel length variations as lighter weight bullets. Also with 3N38 sometimes a slight jump in powder doesn't make hardly any difference, then with another bullet it does. The 3N38 load above with the 180gr RNFP that did 1300 fps from the 5.3" Glock 35 will hover around 1350 fps from the 6" KKM barrel. The 200gr hardcast load above will hover right around 1200 fps and the 175gr above should bust 1300+ from the 6". I tested a 175gr Silvertip from the KKM and it did 1288 fps but was loaded to a longer OAL, so the shorter OAL of 1.130" should get it past 1300.

I have a theory that the better support of the KKM aids in faster velocity too, and while it may just be nonsense, my thought is that while the stock barrel is slightly expanding the brass (due to it having less support), the expanded brass develops slightly higher case capacity (compared to non expanded brass in the KKM) which drops pressure slightly which in turn drops velocity too. But maybe not either, it's just a thought.

I don't really notice any more torque when shooting from the stock Glock barrel, but I'm not a very recoil sensitive person. If there is more, I can't really tell the difference. It's interesting you bring up the twist rates because honestly, I've never really paid attention to it until the other day the thought popped up in my head about Glocks twist rate, and maybe that's one of the reasons why I get slower velocities out of the Glock barrels perhaps? But I'm like you, I have no idea why Glock uses the twist rate they do for the .40's, no clue whatsoever.

SDGlock23
06-05-2013, 07:40
I am lacking many things

I shot some 40s&w Saturday and my oal was 1.160 and I checked and I think it will feed an oal of 1.175, have you
tried any longer than 1.130.

I used 3 diferent barrels in the G27, the oem barrel and a LW
4.060 threaded and a 4.6 threaded.


I am thinking that the 175+grain bullets could go faster if seated longer +
more powder, I think it would be worth throating your barrel if need be.

All three of mine fed at that oal.

I wish my mold would hurry up and get here.


Happie, yes I have tried a longer OAL with good success. Get this, in my KKM .40's I can seat the bullet out rather long, even 10mm length (1.250-1.260"), which is okay if I want a single shot Glock :) The problem is I can't really load anything longer than 1.150-1.155" and have them to load up in the magazine. I can usually get a few 1.160's to seat in the magazine, but not more than 2-3 of them.

I did a little test and made a dummy round of .40 at 1.250" and it seats perfectly in both my KKM 6" and KKM 4". What's neat about that is if it's the same OAL as a 10mm, you can use 10mm load data, but have the added advantage of the stronger .40 case.


I've toyed around a little with the idea of a long OAL which will indeed give more room for powder, but it's not something I've played with extensively. And even then, only out into the 1.15's, but I can mess around with even longer, which I'm going to have to do. It might even be interesting to load up some at long like a 10mm just to see what would happen, even if it limits my Glock to being a single shot!

happie2shoot
06-05-2013, 16:57
I want to thank you again for your imput on this Glock thing,
I started reloading in 1966 but never much for the Glock.

After all the talk about how short you need to reload for the
Glock I was shocked at how long my magazines will hold.

I know from the magnum revolvers longer is usually better and
the 9mm major boys are doing some wild things with longer
oal and more pressure.
BE CAREFUL WITH THIS, I don't go this far but its a good read
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=147730

SDGlock23
06-07-2013, 08:53
Thanks for the link Happy, I look forward to reading it!

happie2shoot
06-07-2013, 18:05
Thanks for the link Happy, I look forward to reading it!

Thank's for all the info you have given.

SDGlock23
06-08-2013, 14:41
Might as well post up a few more I ran today. A little bit more of a mixture, but it sure is a good mix. Since I was going to run some warm handloads, I just shot all loads through the 6" KKM barrel in my Gen4 G35, other than that the gun is stock. Velocities as always are averages. Temp out side around 75 degrees.

180gr Missouri TCFP, 5.0gr HP38 @ 1.125": 1,070 fps (13 fps ES)

180gr Montana Gold JHP, 6.5gr Unique @ 1.120" (1x Win, Fed SP): 1,207 fps (5 fps ES!!)

This is a very consistent load that still hits hard (over 580 ft-lbs at muzzle) and is in my opinion plenty fast for any 180gr JHP bullet, but with that said, it's still fun to play around.

Strange as it may sound, I have a moniker for my warm .40's: ".400 S&W"

Before I post this data, let me again warn that these are over book max charges that are what I have deemed to be safe in MY GUN. DO NOT just drop these loads in a stock Glock barrel, work them up first. I use a well supported KKM barrel that is 6" long and use the stock Gen4 RSA. These are also seated to the longest OAL that will reliably feed in a Glock .40 S&W magazine (1.150").

180gr XTP, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.150": (1x Fed, CCI SP): 1,358 fps (12 fps ES!) That's 737 ft-lbs

200gr XTP, 8.2gr 800x @ 1.150": (1x Fed, CCI SP): 1,244 fps (22 fps ES!) That's 687 ft-lbs

Brass looked good! No bulges in the KKM barrel and the primers didn't even look very flat.

Also I wanted to add my very first attempt at LONG load .40! My KKM barrels will accept .40's out to 10mm OAL, 10mm data can be used, it just makes the .40 S&W Glock a single shot since the rounds are obviously too long to seat in the magazine, only 1 fits.

180gr Rem JHP, 9.2gr Longshot @ 1.250" (1x Win .40 S&W, Fed SP): 1,351 fps (6" bbl)

Didn't want to use book max so I did 9.2gr instead of 9.5gr Longshot. However, compare that to the 1.150" loaded 800x load above, which is faster. It is cool to be able to use your .40 as a 10mm, even if it is a single shot.

SDGlock23
06-08-2013, 14:46
I meant to post this with the last post, but I did run a few through the little Kahr CM40 (3" bbl).

180gr Missouri TCFP, 5.0gr HP38 @ 1.125": 990 fps (9 fps ES!)

200gr Missouir TCFP, 7.0gr 800x @ 1.125" (1x Speer Nickel, Fed SP): 1,052 fps (9 fps ES!) For 491 ft-lbs

The HP38 load averaged 1070 fps from the 6" KKM, so as you see some powders don't really gain much even though in this case, there's twice the amount of barrel.

The 200gr hardcast was an effort to mimic the 200gr "Outdoorsman" load from Buffalo Bore, and well, I exceeded it. They claim 1000 fps from a 4-4.5" bbl, I averaged over 1050 from a 3". But I will say this, it recoils. Keep in mind too that the factory Hornady 10mm 200 XTP is rated at 1050 fps from a 5" barrel. Not bad for a pocket .40!

Ran a couple of factory loads too:

Speer 155gr Gold Dot: 1,104 fps (56 fps ES)

CorBon 135gr PowR Ball: 1,240 fps (58 fps ES)

Not terrible, but not the most consistent. The Triton 135gr JHP runs 1260 from the CM40, just a little faster than the CorBon. Seems odd, but I prefer 135gr bullets to be below 1300 fps since their section density is so poor driving them faster just seems diminish penetration and cause the bullet to break up more.

The 155gr Gold Dots were kind of old too, I wanted to shoot them up since I have a much newer box now. 1100 fps is a touch on the slow side it seems, as that's what most factory 165gr JHP's hover at from the short 3" barreled Kahr.

SDGlock23
06-08-2013, 14:48
Thank's for all the info you have given.

No problem Happy, maybe some people will gain some info from all of this. Oh BTW, that link was interesting! They got some 9mm loads to some smokin' velocities!!

I don't load for the 9mm anymore, but I used to play around with it some. It's no problem for 124gr bullets to hover at and above 1,350 fps from a G34, which I thought was pretty darn fast for a 9mm!

happie2shoot
06-08-2013, 16:24
Thanks agan, here is the thread that got me started with the 9mm major.
It is 20 pages long.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12740&page=1

Poohgyrr
06-08-2013, 18:40
That forum has a lot of good molds; I'm waiting to see how my pistols do with the second one below.



what do you 40 cal. guys think of this RERUN-Mihec-10mm-200gr-WFN-40s-amp-w-180gr-HP-4-cavity-Brass hope the link works


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?200543-RERUN-Mihec-10mm-200gr-WFN-40s-amp-w-180gr-HP-4-cavity-Brass




http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?196412-10mm-40s-amp-w-170gr-150gr-(135gr-HP)-WFN-4-cav-Brass-Miha

happie2shoot
06-09-2013, 22:03
That forum has a lot of good molds; I'm waiting to see how my pistols do with the second one below.






http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?200543-RERUN-Mihec-10mm-200gr-WFN-40s-amp-w-180gr-HP-4-cavity-Brass




http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?196412-10mm-40s-amp-w-170gr-150gr-(135gr-HP)-WFN-4-cav-Brass-Miha

I am getting the 170gr too.
I would like both but that's a lot of money.

Stay off that site or it will cost you much money,
I have probably got close to 50 molds.

I started reloading in 66 and started casting in 79.

SDGlock23
06-17-2013, 08:46
I wanted to post an update.

I found a good deal on a Gen4 G20. I hesitated to get it but I didn't want to pass it up either, so I bought it. But that doesn't mean I'm done with warm .40's, actually I bought a 6" KKM .40 conversion barrel for the 20. That means I can long load the .40's to 10mm length and the G20 mag will hold them, plus I can still shoot normal OAL .40 loads (and experiment with everything in between too!).

There is added advantage here too since the G20 slide is heavier than my G35 slide so that will not only help recoil but it will have slower slide speed. Additionally, I have some 24lb ISMI springs coming to help it out even more. That way I can use 24lb with my .45 Super warm loads as well as my warm .40's and warm 10mm's.

I plan to load up some warm 10mm too like I did in the past, but most of what it will see will be .40's. It's a good thing I've got tons of .40 brass because trying to find 10mm brass right now is tough!

SDGlock23
06-19-2013, 18:48
Got the KKM G20 .40 S&W conversion barrel in today, and the 20 isn't even here yet! Adding to the fact that the G20 itself is heavier than the G35, the KKM conversion barrel is noticeably heavier than the KKM G24 bbl so the extra heft should really ease recoil and be easier on brass. I snapped a few pictures to show the difference.

It's the same length (both 6") but the G20 version is wider and heavier. KKM G24 on the left, KKM 10mm conversion barrel on the right.
http://imageshack.us/a/img600/9734/a3lz.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/5351/rsp5.jpg


The walls are thicker too on the conversion bbl, more material is a good thing:

http://imageshack.us/a/img404/2133/2ple.jpg


So the main reason I even got the 20 was to shoot long loaded .40's. So I was really hoping the new conversion barrel would be reamed at least as much as my G24 and G23 KKM barrel. It is! Here's a picture of a .40 S&W (180gr Rem JHP) loaded to 10mm OAL of 1.260":

http://imageshack.us/a/img849/6529/oqx.jpg

Yeah it looks a little odd, but it works. So the conversion barrel, while a .40, is also a 10mm since long loaded .40 is a 10mm, there's no difference. Well...at least with the heavier bullets. I can see issues loading some 135gr or maybe even 155gr to 1.260", but that's no biggie, I can load them anywhere from 1.100" to over 1.260" if I want, so plenty of room to play. All this with the added advantage of the stronger .40 S&W case.

This is just to show the same bullet above (long loaded 1.260" .40) seated in the KKM conversion barrel:

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/618/94g8.jpg


Anyways, it should be fun!

happie2shoot
06-20-2013, 21:13
SDGlock23

good deal, I am looking forward to your results.

Lone Wolf has sent my G30 Rowland barrels.

SDGlock23
06-21-2013, 09:23
SDGlock23

good deal, I am looking forward to your results.

Lone Wolf has sent my G30 Rowland barrels.


That's excellent Happie, I hope they run well for you and get a lot of enjoyment out of them. Make sure to post up a report! :thumbsup:

SDGlock23
08-03-2013, 08:22
I got to run a few more the other day, nothing extraordinary but I'm glad I got to run a few. Both loads are using 1x Blazer brass and CCI SP primers.

Gen4 Glock 23:

180gr Z-cast hardcast, 6.0gr WSF @ 1.125": 1,027 fps. Nicely consistent and not too smokey.

180gr Gold Dot, 7.5gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1,130 fps. I have to admit, I like this load. Recoil isn't too bad and Power Pistol again proves itself to be very consistent.

SDGlock23
08-04-2013, 18:51
And a couple more:

Gen4 Glock 23 .40 S&W

135gr Nosler JHP, 10.8gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1,439 fps

155gr Speer Gold Dot, 9.4gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1,283 fps

165gr Speer Gold Dot, 8.2gr Power Pistol @ 1.125": 1,213 fps

SDGlock23
09-07-2013, 14:50
Glock 23 Gen4 with KKM barrel (4" barrel)

All use 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers. Don't use in stock barrel, drop by 10% if you do.

180gr XTP, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.140": 1,195 fps (571 ft-lbs)

180gr RFNP hardcast, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.135": 1,228 fps (603 ft-lbs)

200gr XTP, 8.2gr 800x @ 1.140": 1,095 fps (532 ft-lbs)

200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.2gr 800x @ 1.125": 1,126 fps (563 ft-lbs)

happie2shoot
09-08-2013, 06:12
Glock 23 Gen4 with KKM barrel (4" barrel)

All use 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers. Don't use in stock barrel, drop by 10% if you do.

180gr XTP, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.140": 1,195 fps

180gr RFNP hardcast, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.135": 1,228 fps

200gr XTP, 8.2gr 800x @ 1.140": 1,095 fps

200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.2gr 800x @ 1.125": 1,126 fps

Thanks for the info on the deer hunting loads.

Do you like 800x best for max loads.

happie2shoot
09-08-2013, 07:24
Glock 23 Gen4 with KKM barrel (4" barrel)

All use 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers. Don't use in stock barrel, drop by 10% if you do.

180gr XTP, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.140": 1,195 fps

180gr RFNP hardcast, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.135": 1,228 fps

200gr XTP, 8.2gr 800x @ 1.140": 1,095 fps

200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.2gr 800x @ 1.125": 1,126 fps

So far the best I have got with my g27 is, Speer brass, cci 500,lee 182gr.cast oal 1.119, 7.2gr Longshot,
OEM barrel 1073fps
LW 4.06'' barrel 1159fps

7.2gr is not max so I will go farther as everything looks good
so far.

I still need to make some changes to the bullet, it is too fat
to feed 100%, it shoots good in BOTH barrels.



I think I will get a throating reamer so I can seat bullets longer, the magazine will hold 1.170 oal with most bullets.

SDGlock23
09-08-2013, 13:15
Happie, yes I think 800x is my favorite for both the .40 and 10mm. 3N38 is right there with it, but it's so hard to find not too many people use it.

I loaded a few more last night and shot them today, posted below this. I'm not too familiar with the LW barrels like what you have, but I have heard that they often have short throats on them, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to ream it out a little more. Even like you have it, a 182gr hardcast at over 1150 is still a stout load!

SDGlock23
09-08-2013, 13:20
Just a few more, same exact setup. Same 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers.

Shot through Chrony F-1 tripod mounted and leveled up nice.

Glock 23 Gen4, stock RSA unit and a KKM 4" barrel.

165gr Gold Dot, 9.7gr 800x @ 1.130": 1,297 fps (616 ft-lbs)

200gr WFNGC, 8.0gr 800x @ 1.100": 1,152 fps (589 ft-lbs)

I shorted the OAL of the 200gr WFNGC because yesterday I got a couple of stovepipes loaded to 1.125". It might have been an isolated instance but I shorted them up and they ran smoothly today.

Brass from KKM barrel looked great. I did also run a few experimental 135gr and 155gr loads with 800x, but they were disasters...terribly inconsistent with both of them giving nasty 80-100fps extreme spreads. Oh well, if I can get them more consistent I'll post those up.

Cycletroll
09-09-2013, 11:28
Just a few more, same exact setup. Same 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers.

Shot through Chrony F-1 tripod mounted and leveled up nice.

Glock 23 Gen4, stock RSA unit and a KKM 4" barrel.

165gr Gold Dot, 9.7gr 800x @ 1.130": 1,297 fps

200gr WFNGC, 8.0gr 800x @ 1.100": 1,152 fps

I shorted the OAL of the 200gr WFNGC because yesterday I got a couple of stovepipes loaded to 1.125". It might have been an isolated instance but I shorted them up and they ran smoothly today.

Brass from KKM barrel looked great. I did also run a few experimental 135gr and 155gr loads with 800x, but they were disasters...terribly inconsistent with both of them giving nasty 80-100fps extreme spreads. Oh well, if I can get them more consistent I'll post those up.

Hey SD, what recoil spring setup are you using with the warm .40 loads in your Gen4 G23? I have a the same gun but haven't run max loads in it yet. Did run max loads in a Gen 4 G22 with a 24# spring. Seemed to handle it ok.
I've been debating my G23/G32 as a woods carry for finishing shots on game and can't decide between Sig and .40.
The factory Glock .357 barrel is the best supported of the bunch with a nice tight chamber so hot loads are fine in it. Not sure if I want to stay with the limitations of the stock .40 barrel with the benefit of perhaps better feed reliability or go with a KKM.
Thoughts?

SDGlock23
09-10-2013, 09:08
Hey SD, what recoil spring setup are you using with the warm .40 loads in your Gen4 G23? I have a the same gun but haven't run max loads in it yet. Did run max loads in a Gen 4 G22 with a 24# spring. Seemed to handle it ok.
I've been debating my G23/G32 as a woods carry for finishing shots on game and can't decide between Sig and .40.
The factory Glock .357 barrel is the best supported of the bunch with a nice tight chamber so hot loads are fine in it. Not sure if I want to stay with the limitations of the stock .40 barrel with the benefit of perhaps better feed reliability or go with a KKM.
Thoughts?

Cycle, this last go around with the heavy 165, 180, and 200gr loads I used the stock Gen4 RSA. While I do have a 22lb spring for the 23 (using gen3 adapter), it doesn't really seem to me to offer any more resistance which is why I wanted to try the Gen4 recoil assembly.

I had a G32 barrel for the 23 for years and can attest to how well they are supported, the best support I've seen in a factory Glock barrel for sure. But you know, I've ran some rather stout loads through the stock Gen4 G23 barrel too with no ill effects. It's not as well supported as the KKM barrel is, but it really isn't bad either. For what it's worth, even in the stock barrel, depending on powder used and the bullet, I can get roughly within 50 fps of the KKM barrel. I don't use loads quite as warm in the stock barrel, but it's still able to pump out some good numbers, from a 4" barrel anyways.

As for reliability, the KKM barrel has been very reliable as a whole. I did have that bobble the other day, but I think that was mainly due to either it didn't like the OAL of the load I had or it could have been because I was using an OLD 10rd mag I've had for over a decade with the original OLD follower in it..plus the spring in that mag have never been changed either, so a somewhat weak magazine spring coupled with the higher slide speed the warmer loads dish out could have been the reason too. I almost lean that way because my KKM G23 will eat 170gr SWC hardcasts like candy and ask for more, a profile that will quickly jam on you if your barrel doesn't like it.

The 357 Sig is a good cartridge no doubt about it, I just typically prefer the ability to have a bigger, heavier bullet especially out in the woods. Those warmer 180gr and 200gr loads are at or over 600 ft-lbs.

Cycletroll
09-10-2013, 13:46
Cycle, this last go around with the heavy 165, 180, and 200gr loads I used the stock Gen4 RSA. While I do have a 22lb spring for the 23 (using gen3 adapter), it doesn't really seem to me to offer any more resistance which is why I wanted to try the Gen4 recoil assembly.

I had a G32 barrel for the 23 for years and can attest to how well they are supported, the best support I've seen in a factory Glock barrel for sure. But you know, I've ran some rather stout loads through the stock Gen4 G23 barrel too with no ill effects. It's not as well supported as the KKM barrel is, but it really isn't bad either. For what it's worth, even in the stock barrel, depending on powder used and the bullet, I can get roughly within 50 fps of the KKM barrel. I don't use loads quite as warm in the stock barrel, but it's still able to pump out some good numbers, from a 4" barrel anyways.

As for reliability, the KKM barrel has been very reliable as a whole. I did have that bobble the other day, but I think that was mainly due to either it didn't like the OAL of the load I had or it could have been because I was using an OLD 10rd mag I've had for over a decade with the original OLD follower in it..plus the spring in that mag have never been changed either, so a somewhat weak magazine spring coupled with the higher slide speed the warmer loads dish out could have been the reason too. I almost lean that way because my KKM G23 will eat 170gr SWC hardcasts like candy and ask for more, a profile that will quickly jam on you if your barrel doesn't like it.

The 357 Sig is a good cartridge no doubt about it, I just typically prefer the ability to have a bigger, heavier bullet especially out in the woods. Those warmer 180gr and 200gr loads are at or over 600 ft-lbs.


SD, thanks for the answer. All of my hot .40 workups had been in a Gen4 G22 with 20-24#spring. Haven't dialed loads for the 23 yet. It may be my imagination but it almost seems like my Gen4 G23 has a better supported chamber than my early Gen4 G22.
Don't count out heavies in the Sig: Hornady .357 XTP's for revolver work great in most Glock chambers. I've loaded some impressive numbers with 140gr, 158gr, and 180gr XTP's. They are designed for higher .357 magnum velocities and so hold up to sig numbers much better than 9mm bullets; also they have a canneleure in exactly the right place to prevent setback.
I load them like mini-rifle cases, just bump the shoulder enough to headspace on after resizing the body with a .40 S&W die. the 158gr XTP @~1300 is a highly effective woods load.
I also load a hardcast 187gr WFN in the Sig which plows through anything like a lazer and has a .27 me plat.
PM me if you want some data for workups.

SDGlock23
09-11-2013, 08:34
SD, thanks for the answer. All of my hot .40 workups had been in a Gen4 G22 with 20-24#spring. Haven't dialed loads for the 23 yet. It may be my imagination but it almost seems like my Gen4 G23 has a better supported chamber than my early Gen4 G22.
Don't count out heavies in the Sig: Hornady .357 XTP's for revolver work great in most Glock chambers. I've loaded some impressive numbers with 140gr, 158gr, and 180gr XTP's. They are designed for higher .357 magnum velocities and so hold up to sig numbers much better than 9mm bullets; also they have a canneleure in exactly the right place to prevent setback.
I load them like mini-rifle cases, just bump the shoulder enough to headspace on after resizing the body with a .40 S&W die. the 158gr XTP @~1300 is a highly effective woods load.
I also load a hardcast 187gr WFN in the Sig which plows through anything like a lazer and has a .27 me plat.
PM me if you want some data for workups.


It's good to see you post up some heavy bullet ideas with the 357 Sig, it's something I never got to mess around with because I never did get into reloading for the 357 Sig...although in looking back I think it's something I should have done! I like the sound of that 158gr XTP at 1300 fps, heck even with a good dose of H110 I had a hard time getting much more than 1350 fps out of a 6" GP100 I used to have, although I only had the 158gr Gold Dot/Deep Curl and not the XTP. For whatever reason I could get the the 158gr hardcasts zipping out fast, but not the 158gr jacketed.

It sounds to me like that 357 Sig would serve you pretty well especially with those heavy bullets. I bet that 187gr hardcast is a long ole bullet, but I can also imagine it will penetrate like the dickens too! Heck that 158gr XTP sounds impressive enough, and I know that will cut deep. Had I not sold my G32 barrel and all my 357 Mag bullets I'd be set up...oh well.

happie2shoot
09-11-2013, 13:19
SD, thanks for the answer. All of my hot .40 workups had been in a Gen4 G22 with 20-24#spring. Haven't dialed loads for the 23 yet. It may be my imagination but it almost seems like my Gen4 G23 has a better supported chamber than my early Gen4 G22.
Don't count out heavies in the Sig: Hornady .357 XTP's for revolver work great in most Glock chambers. I've loaded some impressive numbers with 140gr, 158gr, and 180gr XTP's. They are designed for higher .357 magnum velocities and so hold up to sig numbers much better than 9mm bullets; also they have a canneleure in exactly the right place to prevent setback.
I load them like mini-rifle cases, just bump the shoulder enough to headspace on after resizing the body with a .40 S&W die. the 158gr XTP @~1300 is a highly effective woods load.
I also load a hardcast 187gr WFN in the Sig which plows through anything like a lazer and has a .27 me plat.
PM me if you want some data for workups.


I have had that 187gr LBT mold for over 20 years, its .720'' long and my normal load in a GP100 6'' is 1450 to 1500fps and
the cases extract easy. It will shoot 3'' at 100 yds and will hold accuracy at ranges that if I told you how far you would call BS. My mold has 2 crimp groves for longer cylinders,
gp100 and the sp101 at 1.635 oal and the Rug. BH at 1.675 oal.

The 6.5'' BHs will shoot less than 6'' at 200yds, I think I could
do at least that good with the 6'' gp 100s. I have many 357
mags, from 2.25'' to 20''.

How fast have you shot it out of the 357sig.

happie2shoot
09-11-2013, 13:24
There is only .373 and .320 seated in the case, less than much lighter bullets,
that's why you can get that speed.

These loads will not fit in some guns.

gooffeyguy
09-11-2013, 14:10
How much difference is there between the 158 XTP @ ~1300 in a .357 sig and a 155 XTP @ ~1250 in a .40 s&w ?

I currently load 155 XTPs in .40 and have thought about getting a .357 sig barrel and start playing with that round, but looking at the various reloading data there doesn't seem to be that much of a performance difference.

SDGlock23
09-12-2013, 09:51
I don't know what barrel length was used to get a 158gr XTP @ 1300 fps, but either way that's a smokin' load. A 155gr .40 @ 1250 is 3-4" barrel stuff and will do close to 1500 fps, some over 1500, from a 6" with a warm load.

But of the two the 158gr XTP would penetrate deeper, while the 155gr .40 would expand larger. Both would be very effective no doubt.

Cycletroll
09-12-2013, 10:29
I have had that 187gr LBT mold for over 20 years, its .720'' long and my normal load in a GP100 6'' is 1450 to 1500fps and
the cases extract easy. It will shoot 3'' at 100 yds and will hold accuracy at ranges that if I told you how far you would call BS. My mold has 2 crimp groves for longer cylinders,
gp100 and the sp101 at 1.635 oal and the Rug. BH at 1.675 oal.

The 6.5'' BHs will shoot less than 6'' at 200yds, I think I could
do at least that good with the 6'' gp 100s. I have many 357
mags, from 2.25'' to 20''.

How fast have you shot it out of the 357sig.

1200fps out of a 4.5" Glock 31 doesn't show any pressure but is about as much slide velocity as a 24# recoil spring can handle and I think a lot of these would pound the frame pretty good after awhile. But in limited quantities it is a nice penetration load.
The 180XTP at 1180 is really nice and shoots ~1" groups at 30 yards out of gun; moderate expansion (.58-.60)and tons of penetration.
Doesn't come close to what a longer barreled Ruger will do but much lighter, and much more capacity and plenty of horsepower for most woods needs.

happie2shoot
09-12-2013, 22:05
1200fps out of a 4.5" Glock 31 doesn't show any pressure but is about as much slide velocity as a 24# recoil spring can handle and I think a lot of these would pound the frame pretty good after awhile. But in limited quantities it is a nice penetration load.
The 180XTP at 1180 is really nice and shoots ~1" groups at 30 yards out of gun; moderate expansion (.58-.60)and tons of penetration.
Doesn't come close to what a longer barreled Ruger will do but much lighter, and much more capacity and plenty of horsepower for most woods needs.

How long is your oal, is your mold made by LBT?

I like your loads and when I get time I will try some of my cast for the sig. I have a LW barrel some place around here.

SDGlock23
09-21-2013, 16:26
I got some more data today. Nice day out so I figured why not.

Gen4 Glock 20 with 6" KKM .40 S&W barrel

Factory 180gr Gold Dot avg a whopping 1,063 fps. Very little gain with these using a longer barrel. If memory serves me correct, these run a tad over 1,000 fps from the stock Gen4 G23. Because of such little increase, I'm thinking Speer uses a fairly fast burning powder, as those don't react as much to longer barrels.

Two handloads, both using 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers:

6" KKM

180gr Hornady XTP, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.135": 1,339 fps avg (19 fps ES)

200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.0gr 800x @ 1.100": 1,221 fps (20 fps ES)

These two shot well, brass looked fine. Compared to the 4" KKM in my Gen4 G23, I got an increase of almost 150 fps with the 180gr XTP, but only roughly 70 fps with the 200gr. I figured the 200gr would react less, but I figured it would go more than 70 fps, but it's still good for a .40!

Long loaded handload using 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers:

6" KKM

180gr Hornady XTP, 10.5gr 800x @ 1.250": 1,454 fps avg (14 fps ES)

This is a load I worked up for the 10mm, but wanted to see what the same data would do in a long loaded .40, and now I know. I got about 1,365 from this load out of the stock G20, so I got an increase of about 90 fps using the 6" KKM .40 barrel. The barrel has a long throat that will allow it to chamber and fire 10mm-length .40 S&W.

happie2shoot
11-02-2013, 23:54
Just a few more, same exact setup. Same 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers.

Shot through Chrony F-1 tripod mounted and leveled up nice.

Glock 23 Gen4, stock RSA unit and a KKM 4" barrel.

165gr Gold Dot, 9.7gr 800x @ 1.130": 1,297 fps (616 ft-lbs)

200gr WFNGC, 8.0gr 800x @ 1.100": 1,152 fps (589 ft-lbs)

I shorted the OAL of the 200gr WFNGC because yesterday I got a couple of stovepipes loaded to 1.125". It might have been an isolated instance but I shorted them up and they ran smoothly today.

Brass from KKM barrel looked great. I did also run a few experimental 135gr and 155gr loads with 800x, but they were disasters...terribly inconsistent with both of them giving nasty 80-100fps extreme spreads. Oh well, if I can get them more consistent I'll post those up.

Two more moulds on the way,

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=39&products_id=436&osCsid=h9ftpoo4mfhd6prtb8frdt3fo7

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=516&osCsid=h9ftpoo4mfhd6prtb8frdt3fo7

:wavey:

SDGlock23
11-04-2013, 08:47
Dang Happie that 200gr WFN mould looks very nice! Good sized meplat and it's got a short OAL for more powder room. If I made my own I would get that in a heartbeat!

SDGlock23
11-09-2013, 17:17
I have some .40 data, although it's not normal .40 data. It's .40 for sure, but loaded with 10mm data. This is from the G20 Gen4 with 6" KKM .40 S&W barrel.

Used 1x Winchester .40 S&W brass and CCI SP primers.

200gr XTP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,302 fps (28 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 8.8gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,294 fps (25 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,338 (54 fps ES)

This one is somewhere in between, longer than a .40 but shorter than a 10mm:

180gr XTP, 9.2gr Longshot @ 1.200": 1,362 fps (31 fps ES)

For those seeking the ultimate powerhouse load:

200gr WFN, 1.5gr HP38 @ 1.025": 297 fps (G23 4" KKM). Tough to hold onto that one....ha! No it was part of working up a lapping load, but settled on 2.2gr HP38 which averaged 566 fps.

happie2shoot
11-09-2013, 21:58
I have some .40 data, although it's not normal .40 data. It's .40 for sure, but loaded with 10mm data. This is from the G20 Gen4 with 6" KKM .40 S&W barrel.

Used 1x Winchester .40 S&W brass and CCI SP primers.

200gr XTP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,302 fps (28 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 8.8gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,294 fps (25 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,338 (54 fps ES)

This one is somewhere in between, longer than a .40 but shorter than a 10mm:


180gr XTP, 9.2gr Longshot @ 1.200": 1,362 fps (31 fps ES)

For those seeking the ultimate powerhouse load:

200gr WFN, 1.5gr HP38 @ 1.025": 297 fps (G23 4" KKM). Tough to hold onto that one....ha! No it was part of working up a lapping load, but settled on 2.2gr HP38 which averaged 566 fps.

This is good info., thanks.
I just cast some 200wfn's up today

Jack Ryan
11-09-2013, 22:38
11.0 grains of Bluedot under 180grn bullet. 10mm.

I shoot that same load A LOT. I use a lead cast and tumble lubed bullet from a Lee mold.

It's pretty stout but not at the top of the chart and sure not over pressure.

Shoot the standard G20SF standard barrel.

Fire_Medic
12-16-2013, 11:45
OAL 1.125", 180gr Xtreme bullets, once fired brass, CCI primers and either 5.8gr of WSF for a warmer load or 4.2gr of Titegroup for a soft shooting plinking load.

SDGlock23
12-22-2013, 08:07
Those are good loads you listed Fire Medic!

Fire_Medic
12-22-2013, 17:32
Those are good loads you listed Fire Medic!

Thanks brother. Have 8# of Longshot sitting here waiting for something as well. We will see not sure if I'm gonna get a 10mm or not again yet. Really liking IDPA so i'm gonna want a dedicated game gun.

happie2shoot
12-24-2013, 22:57
I have some .40 data, although it's not normal .40 data. It's .40 for sure, but loaded with 10mm data. This is from the G20 Gen4 with 6" KKM .40 S&W barrel.

Used 1x Winchester .40 S&W brass and CCI SP primers.

200gr XTP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,302 fps (28 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 8.8gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,294 fps (25 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,338 (54 fps ES)

This one is somewhere in between, longer than a .40 but shorter than a 10mm:

180gr XTP, 9.2gr Longshot @ 1.200": 1,362 fps (31 fps ES)

For those seeking the ultimate powerhouse load:

200gr WFN, 1.5gr HP38 @ 1.025": 297 fps (G23 4" KKM). Tough to hold onto that one....ha! No it was part of working up a lapping load, but settled on 2.2gr HP38 which averaged 566 fps.

How did your lapping go, how many rds. and how far did
it extend yor throat.

SDGlock23
12-26-2013, 09:34
How did your lapping go, how many rds. and how far did
it extend yor throat.

Happie, I have yet to firelap the 6" KKM .40 barrel, but I did do my others (5" KKM G21 bbl, KKM 4.6" G20 barrel and KKM 4" G23 barrel) and it all went well. I haven't got to shoot all of them too much since it's happened, but I think the G23 groups got a little tighter for sure.

I do go to shoot the KKM 21 barrel afterwards but didn't pick a good day as it was very windy out, but it shot well too, certainly didn't lose any accuracy and I haven't shot the KKM G20 barrel any yet after fire lapping it.

The process went well and as far as the throats go, I didn't notice any changes. I only ran about 30 lapping rounds through each, and the throat on the KKM G23 was already super deep to begin with, the KKM G20 I haven't checked, but prior to lapping it would accept 200gr WFNGC bullets all the way out to 1.285" and probably longer, but I never tried since I figured 1.285" may be too long for the magazine.

The KKM G21 barrel didn't really change, I loaded up some .45 Super with the more blunt 255gr hardcasts and was still limited to using the same OAL of ~1.170". I'd like it to be deeper, but I'd probably be better off sending it somewhere to be cut deeper, but I can't complain about it since it's still delivering good performance (~1300 fps) even with that short of an OAL.

happie2shoot
12-26-2013, 15:38
Thanks for the reply, I know we like our bullets to jump as little as
possible but some of my revolvers shoot like rifles and they jump
a lot.

The lapping should help with the leadding.

I have many barrels to lap but I am getting lazy in my old age.

SDGlock23
01-30-2014, 07:41
It's been too dang cold to do too much shooting here lately, although I have shot some .45 Super stuff.

I went and bought me a Glock 35 Gen4....again. But I also sold my G20 Gen4. The 20 shot very well but honestly I didn't find myself shooting it all that much, and what I realized is that between the two, they both kind of do the same thing. Since I have much more .40 ammo and brass, I decided to drop the 10mm and stick with the .40, but I don't have anything against the 10mm, I still think it's a good cartridge. I just never shot the 10mm much and with my warm .40 loads I pretty much have 10mm ballistics anyways (and it takes less powder to do it) and besides, if I want more than 10mm ballistics out of a Glock, I'll just bring out the big ole .45 SUPER.

I haven't got the G35 yet, bought it off of GunBroker (free shipping and no tax!) so I'm still waiting for it. I'm going to see if KKM will make me a 4 port compensated G24 (6") barrel for it. I had asked them a year or two ago and they said that at the time they were not set up to do it, or something to that effect. Maybe it's different now, I actually seen a G24C the other day on GB with a KKM 4 port barrel on it so I know, at the very least, that they used to make them. That way I can get max barrel length and still have the option to comp it should the slide speed get too fast.

BTW, if anyone is interested in my KKM 6" Glock 20 .40 S&W conversion barrel, I'm selling it, I've sold all the rest of the 10mm stuff except that barrel.

I'll be sure to post a picture when I get it :cool:

happie2shoot
01-31-2014, 06:58
It's been too dang cold to do too much shooting here lately, although I have shot some .45 Super stuff.

I went and bought me a Glock 35 Gen4....again. But I also sold my G20 Gen4. The 20 shot very well but honestly I didn't find myself shooting it all that much, and what I realized is that between the two, they both kind of do the same thing. Since I have much more .40 ammo and brass, I decided to drop the 10mm and stick with the .40, but I don't have anything against the 10mm, I still think it's a good cartridge. I just never shot the 10mm much and with my warm .40 loads I pretty much have 10mm ballistics anyways (and it takes less powder to do it) and besides, if I want more than 10mm ballistics out of a Glock, I'll just bring out the big ole .45 SUPER.

I haven't got the G35 yet, bought it off of GunBroker (free shipping and no tax!) so I'm still waiting for it. I'm going to see if KKM will make me a 4 port compensated G24 (6") barrel for it. I had asked them a year or two ago and they said that at the time they were not set up to do it, or something to that effect. Maybe it's different now, I actually seen a G24C the other day on GB with a KKM 4 port barrel on it so I know, at the very least, that they used to make them. That way I can get max barrel length and still have the option to comp it should the slide speed get too fast.

BTW, if anyone is interested in my KKM 6" Glock 20 .40 S&W conversion barrel, I'm selling it, I've sold all the rest of the 10mm stuff except that barrel.

I'll be sure to post a picture when I get it :cool:

How much do you want for the barrel.

SDGlock23
01-31-2014, 10:12
I'm asking 130 shipped Happie.

happie2shoot
01-31-2014, 11:39
I'm asking 130 shipped Happie.

Let me check on the money situation and see if i need 2 of the same barrels, got one comming from LW but it would be
nice to have both to compare the two.

The good thing is you have made good data on that barrel.

Is there anything you need and would trade for.

SDGlock23
02-01-2014, 08:00
Yeah no rush happie, if you want it fine, if not it's no big deal. I'm mainly wanting to sell it to help fund the KKM 4 port barrel I order, hopefully they'll make me a 24 barrel comped, otherwise I'll have to stick with the 35 comped.

happie2shoot
02-07-2014, 06:35
Yeah no rush happie, if you want it fine, if not it's no big deal. I'm mainly wanting to sell it to help fund the KKM 4 port barrel I order, hopefully they'll make me a 24 barrel comped, otherwise I'll have to stick with the 35 comped.

I am still working on how to get that barrel from you.:wavey:

SDGlock23
02-07-2014, 06:53
Hey there happie, just wanted to inform you that I did sell it, last night actually. I had it up for sale for a few weeks and someone finally did buy it.

I did learn that KKM can't (or won't) make me a 24 threaded barrel. I guess they can't exceed 6" for whatever reason, so now I'm torn as to whether to get a KKM G24 6" barrel or the comped G35 4 port KKM barrel, which with threading is around 5.70-5.75". Shorter than the 24 and more expensive, but it's comped and would slow the slide speed down of the G35...choices choices and I still haven't made my mind up.

happie2shoot
02-07-2014, 15:41
Hey there happie, just wanted to inform you that I did sell it, last night actually. I had it up for sale for a few weeks and someone finally did buy it.

I did learn that KKM can't (or won't) make me a 24 threaded barrel. I guess they can't exceed 6" for whatever reason, so now I'm torn as to whether to get a KKM G24 6" barrel or the comped G35 4 port KKM barrel, which with threading is around 5.70-5.75". Shorter than the 24 and more expensive, but it's comped and would slow the slide speed down of the G35...choices choices and I still haven't made my mind up.

Darn I blew that one

SDGlock23
02-20-2014, 08:32
Went with the 6" KKM G24 barrel. I debated getting a comped barrel, but KKM won't make a 24 barrel with comp threading. Plus, aside from working up the warm loads, I don't really plan on using any of the warm stuff on a regular basis, just for woods work. I received the 24 barrel in the mail yesterday.

http://i.imgur.com/hid61rC.jpg

Goal this next go around is mess around with some longer loaded .40's using Longshot. Although the chamber will accept 10mm length cartridges, if I want to load more than one round in the magazine I have to keep them at or below 1.155". Seems like 1.160" is slightly too long and after stuffing in about 2-3 rounds it chokes up. Even 1.155" was iffy at times so I may just stick to 1.150".

I'm going to firelapp the barrel soon and my main goal for now with this gun is to get a 200gr JHP and WFNGC to 1270+ fps (last loads were hovering around 1245-1250 fps), I think the 200gr is a great option and works very well at 1200-1250 fps. Although I've already hit 1400 fps avg with a 180gr in the last G24 barrel, I think that's a touch too fast in my opinion, so I'm looking for 1350-1375 fps average out of the longer OAL rounds.

I don't have much planned for the lighter bullets, already have a 135gr JHP doing 1850 fps, that's fast enough. I'd like to get the 155's to 1600 and the 165's to 1550, which is only slightly faster than what I've got them to already (so far 155gr at 1550 fps, 165gr @ 1485 fps).

But it might be a little while, the weather here still isn't the best.

happie2shoot
02-20-2014, 11:25
Went with the 6" KKM G24 barrel. I debated getting a comped barrel, but KKM won't make a 24 barrel with comp threading. Plus, aside from working up the warm loads, I don't really plan on using any of the warm stuff on a regular basis, just for woods work. I received the 24 barrel in the mail yesterday.

http://i.imgur.com/hid61rC.jpg

Goal this next go around is mess around with some longer loaded .40's using Longshot. Although the chamber will accept 10mm length cartridges, if I want to load more than one round in the magazine I have to keep them at or below 1.155". Seems like 1.160" is slightly too long and after stuffing in about 2-3 rounds it chokes up. Even 1.155" was iffy at times so I may just stick to 1.150".

I'm going to firelapp the barrel soon and my main goal for now with this gun is to get a 200gr JHP and WFNGC to 1270+ fps (last loads were hovering around 1245-1250 fps), I think the 200gr is a great option and works very well at 1200-1250 fps. Although I've already hit 1400 fps avg with a 180gr in the last G24 barrel, I think that's a touch too fast in my opinion, so I'm looking for 1350-1375 fps average out of the longer OAL rounds.

I don't have much planned for the lighter bullets, already have a 135gr JHP doing 1850 fps, that's fast enough. I'd like to get the 155's to 1600 and the 165's to 1550, which is only slightly faster than what I've got them to already (so far 155gr at 1550 fps, 165gr @ 1485 fps).

But it might be a little while, the weather here still isn't the best.

I am looking forward to your results, can you compile all of your data like you did the 45 super data:whistling::wavey::supergrin::embarassed:

I have some 200gr cast I could send if you want them and
maybe some 180gr too.

Cycletroll
02-20-2014, 12:27
SD,
your max COL of 1.155" is exactly the same measurement I cam up with for reliable magazine function in Glock .40 mags (Mostly XTP bullets but Gold Dot too).

I've done some ballistic testing with various 180's and I really believe that you get best results keeping them to 1200-1250 max. They just start to come apart much faster than that.

It's funny you mention the G35…again LOL
I've owned two of them now too; considering adding one back again. Waffling on G22 or G35. I shoot a G34 in IDPA and was going to shoot G35 for USPSA Limited but just keep having a problem warming up to the G35.
I think a G23 or G22 make a handier woods gun and the extra barrel length isn't really needed. In practice I've not found the extra sight radius to be that much help. I think this is because the G34/G35 platform is so light for it's relative size that holding the gun steady is not as easy. My CZ 75 SP01 Shadow Custom shoots much better for me at distance but it is 42oz empty!
I agree that the .40 is a more effective platform for .401 bullets (given a well supported chamber and experienced hand loads). I've never owned a 10mm an likely never will. The hotrodded G21 is just so much more effective as a tactical hand canon :)

Just my 3.5 cents!

SDGlock23
02-22-2014, 09:19
I am looking forward to your results, can you compile all of your data like you did the 45 super data:whistling::wavey::supergrin::embarassed:

I have some 200gr cast I could send if you want them and
maybe some 180gr too.

Thanks happie, yes I will end up post the .40 data like I did the .45 Super data, that way it's in one post instead of two dozen. I might take you up on the bullet offer when the time comes :)

SDGlock23
02-22-2014, 10:08
SD,
your max COL of 1.155" is exactly the same measurement I cam up with for reliable magazine function in Glock .40 mags (Mostly XTP bullets but Gold Dot too).

I've done some ballistic testing with various 180's and I really believe that you get best results keeping them to 1200-1250 max. They just start to come apart much faster than that.

It's funny you mention the G35…again LOL
I've owned two of them now too; considering adding one back again. Waffling on G22 or G35. I shoot a G34 in IDPA and was going to shoot G35 for USPSA Limited but just keep having a problem warming up to the G35.
I think a G23 or G22 make a handier woods gun and the extra barrel length isn't really needed. In practice I've not found the extra sight radius to be that much help. I think this is because the G34/G35 platform is so light for it's relative size that holding the gun steady is not as easy. My CZ 75 SP01 Shadow Custom shoots much better for me at distance but it is 42oz empty!
I agree that the .40 is a more effective platform for .401 bullets (given a well supported chamber and experienced hand loads). I've never owned a 10mm an likely never will. The hotrodded G21 is just so much more effective as a tactical hand canon

Just my 3.5 cents!


CT, I agree with you completely about the 180gr not needing to go any faster than 1200-1250 fps at impact. Since I've already went well past that mark in the 6" .40, that's mostly why I'm not super focused on the 180's anymore. More than likely I'll start honing in and trying to find the most accurate load since I don't think driving a 180gr any faster will show any appreciable gains in performance and like you mentioned, could actually give less than optimal results.

It's interesting because before I got the 35, I thought about whether it was the best decision or not, since I have the 23 that is capable of some good numbers in its own right, and like you said, it is handier than the G35 for sure as it just carries easier. I contemplated getting a Gen4 G22, I had one before, but ultimately chose the 35 simply because I think it's a cool Glock model and since it shares the same frame as the G22, I figured I might as well get it instead, plus I have a Gen4 17 and figured the 35 would mix things up a little better. I really wanted a Gen4 24, so hopefully Glock will make a run of those one of these days.

I also agree that the extra sight radius isn't that helpful, and I seem to shoot the smaller Glocks better than the larger ones, maybe it's because there's less gun to keep still while aiming, I don't know but it does seem easier to keep the smaller Glocks from moving around.

I certainly don't have anything against the 10mm and don't want anybody to think otherwise (I've loaded a lot for the 10mm and spend a good amount of $$ on it, but recently abandoned it), but I don't really see the point in it. I can see the point perhaps if someone doesn't handload, but for me the added cost and availability of components isn't worth the rather small jump in velocity, and honestly its extra velocity that isn't really needed. Plus it burns more powder than the .40, which is another way of saying the .40 is more efficient than the 10mm is, and as we know the .40 can shoot those .401" JHP bullets plenty fast to take full advantage of them, and then some.

Another reason I got out of the 10mm is not just because the .40 S&W can nearly replicate it's numbers, but that my G21 is a superior gun to the G20 in terms of power potential. My choice for big power is the .45 Super loaded warm, pretty much loaded to 460 Rowland spec, and others go straight for the 460R, but either way there's no doubt that either one has got the power advantage over the 10mm, so having the G20, while a good shooter, wasn't really giving me anything I don't already have.

SDGlock23
03-15-2014, 12:05
Being nice outside I didn't want to pass up the opportunity to run a few warmer loads through the G35. I was already planning on getting the velocities of some factory 9mm out of the Gen4 17, so I figured what the heck and loaded a few .40's that I had ideas on.

Temp around 55 degress, brass is 1x Federal using CCI SP primers. Gun is G35 Gen4 using stock RSA and a 6" KKM G24 barrel, velocities are averages.

200gr TCFP (Missouri Steeler), 7.5gr 800x @ 1.135": 1,188 fps (15 fps ES) The point of this load is just a moderately stout plinker, if you could call it that.

200gr WFNGC, 8.3gr 800x @ 1.120": 1,278 fps (15 fps ES) This is good, real good.

200gr WFNGC, 8.5gr 800x @ 1.120": 1,266 fps (28 fps ES) Sometimes more gets you less!

200gr XTP, 8.5gr 800x @ 1.140": 1272 fps. Again, very good speeds.

The light wasn't really as good as I like it to be, the sun is still casting a bit of a shadow on things this time of year so I'll likely retest a few of these and some other ideas when the light gets better and the temps a little warmer.

Cycletroll
03-15-2014, 19:18
SD,
impressive numbers for sure!

Is your G35 a Gen3 or 4? RSA? curious if the Gen4 RSA handles those level of loads.
My hot G35 loads were with a Gen3 22# spring and that didn't seem like enough spring on the hotter loads. Was getting a bit of frame battering where the nose of the slide contacts in front of the locking block. Not bad but certainly not something I'd want to expose to many hundreds of rounds at that level.

SDGlock23
03-16-2014, 14:02
CT, it's a Gen4 and I use the stock Gen4 RSA. It does very well, of course it throws the brass further than if I'm shooting say a more "factory" level load, but it's doing good so far. With that said, I do see a slight need to slow the slide speed down a little bit, on the real warm loads there's a little bit of brass deformation around the case mouth, nothing extreme but there is some. I'm thinking about seeing if could send my 6" 24 barrel back to KKM and have them thread the end of it so I can add a comp to it. Like you said CT, although I haven't seen much signs of excessive frame battering, anything to slow things down is a good idea, and I have no intention of running many of these loads down the barrel anyways, they're a little much for just plinking around.

SDGlock23
03-16-2014, 14:08
Nothing much, but I did run a few more today. Gen4 G35 w/KKM 6" barrel

(1x Winchester brass, FED SP primer, temp a cool 40 degrees with overcast skies). I should note that I did fire lapp my G24 KKM barrel, seems to free up some FPS and help accuracy out just a bit.

180gr RNFP (.38-40 style), 7.2gr Power Pistol @ 1.130": 1,225 fps avg (17 fps ES)

180gr RNFP, 6.5gr Unique @ 1.130": 1,241 fps (2 fps ES)

180gr RNFP, 9.0gr Blue Dot @ 1.130": 1,309 fps (9 fps ES)

I have quite a few of these .38-40 RNFP hardcasts from bullets I ordered years ago. They shoot fairly good but they don't like to be driven much past 1,200 fps because they tend to lead the barrel much past that. The bullets have a decent sized meplat on them, probably the biggest of most any 180gr hardcast which is probably why I bought them.

The goal was just to see what the above loads would do, and I was hoping they would stay around or just above 1,200 fps and for the most part they did, except for Blue Dot, those leaded the barrel pretty good. Recoil is easy on the 1200-1250 fps loads and they hit plenty hard and would make a good woods load.

BTW, the 6.5gr Unique load that averaged just over 1,240 fps is very efficient. That comes out to 94.7 ft-lbs per 1.0gr of powder!

SDGlock23
04-01-2014, 13:14
Nice weather out today, finally seems like spring time!

Not scientific in the least, but since water is generally hard on bullets, it can show what a bullet is made of. The charge in all three was 8.4gr of Longshot, which had previously averaged around 1,270 fps from my stock Gen4 Glock 35, which the loads below are fired from.

From left to right the 180gr Gold Dot, retained weight of 160.1gr.

In the middle is a Federal HST (pulled of course), retained weight of 161.5gr. (widest part of expansion just shy of 1.100")

On the right is the 180gr XTP which retained exactly 160gr.

As you see, all lost roughly 20gr of bullet weight with an estimated impact velocity of between 1260-1280 fps.

The Gold Dot and XTP penetrated to the 4th jug while the HST core stopped in the 2nd jug, with the jacket sticking in the back of the 2nd jug. Here's a picture:

http://i.imgur.com/hiAD7m9.jpg

I'm not saying they'll perform exactly the same on game, but as it stands I wouldn't want to push these any faster really. I previously said that I don't much see the need in exceeding 1200 fps with the .400" 180gr JHP, and these (minus the HST) are about the toughest out there.

SDGlock23
07-15-2014, 09:45
Here's 4.4gr TiteGroup, 180gr Precision Delta FJM, 1.125" w/Fed SP primers. Stock G35 at about 25ft, not too bad.

http://i.imgur.com/0WJ8NJX.jpg

happie2shoot
07-18-2014, 11:15
Being nice outside I didn't want to pass up the opportunity to run a few warmer loads through the G35. I was already planning on getting the velocities of some factory 9mm out of the Gen4 17, so I figured what the heck and loaded a few .40's that I had ideas on.

Temp around 55 degress, brass is 1x Federal using CCI SP primers. Gun is G35 Gen4 using stock RSA and a 6" KKM G24 barrel, velocities are averages.

200gr TCFP (Missouri Steeler), 7.5gr 800x @ 1.135": 1,188 fps (15 fps ES) The point of this load is just a moderately stout plinker, if you could call it that.

200gr WFNGC, 8.3gr 800x @ 1.120": 1,278 fps (15 fps ES) This is good, real good.

200gr WFNGC, 8.5gr 800x @ 1.120": 1,266 fps (28 fps ES) Sometimes more gets you less!

200gr XTP, 8.5gr 800x @ 1.140": 1272 fps. Again, very good speeds.

The light wasn't really as good as I like it to be, the sun is still casting a bit of a shadow on things this time of year so I'll likely retest a few of these and some other ideas when the light gets better and the temps a little warmer.

I am getting 1270 to 1300fps depending on primer and temperature but my OAL is 1.225'', shot from a 6'' conversion LW 10/40 barrel, 8.5gr 800x 200gr wfn no G/C.

Same load only goes 1163 from a stock g20sf, that extra barrel
length helps.

You must be compressing that powder.

Are you going to compile all that good 40/10 data like you did
the 45 super data.