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dhgeyer
11-10-2012, 10:52
I've had mine for, what, a week or so I guess. I shoot pretty much daily. I put it in my new Glock 17 Gen4 USA. As a disclaimer I must say that the gun came with a non-dipped extractor, and before firing it the first time I put in a White Sound Defense 20% extra power extractor depressor plunger spring, and a homemade spring loaded bearing designed to tension said spring even more. In this configuration the gun wasn't a problem. It ejected everything from WWB to Gold Dots and 2 power levels of handloads reliably and in the right direction. It would not eject without the magazine in place.

When I installed the Apex extractor I noticed that after less than 300 rounds the extractor depressor plunger was showing wear from the slide at the front. I replaced it with one I made that has a longer front expanded portion and is much harder than the stock part. I put one of these homemade jobs in my G19 and it shows no wear at all after over 1000 rounds. I also switched out the White Sound Defense spring for the one supplied by Apex.

First, I must say that the appearance of the Apex unit is head and shoulders above the Glock MIM part. Edges are precise, surfaces are clean, and the finish is very well done. It is a class item. I think, intuitively, that the claw edge being parallel with the inside of the slide, rather than at a 17 degree angle, is a very good idea, as the extractor is fully tensioned when it needs to be: when the spent case is at the ramped down position of the barrel.

In shooting tests it is flawless. I actually loaded up some 115 grain ammo with the starting load of Bullseye powder, which makes for an even weaker load than WWB or REM/UMC, or any other ammo I've ever tried in any 9mm pistol. Weak loads seem to bring out the worst in some of the problem stock Glocks, so that was a test I wanted to do. I also tried it with stronger reloads, CCI Lawman, and Gold Dots.

I forgot to try it with the magazine removed, but I'll add a post when I remember to do that.

In several hundred rounds I have had no failures with the Apex extractor, and the cases have all gone in the same direction - up, out, and to the right at 4:00 o'clock or so. I kind of like shooting the weak loads, because I don't have to chase the brass as far.

Since my gun wasn't a problem to begin with, was it worth the $67.00 with shipping? I think to me it was. I've been into all kinds of mechanical stuff for a long, long time. I have developed an appreciation for quality work. Also, with this part I know I don't have to worry about the extractor going South after 800, 1000, or 2000 rounds downrange.

The only possible downside I must mention is that it is a non-LCI extractor. I don't care personally. I've never had a problem with knowing if the chamber is loaded. But, I can see some scumbag lawyer making an issue out of the fact that I have removed one of the gun's safety devices. In this case, that's a chance I'm willing to take.

INEEDMILK
11-10-2012, 14:13
Thanks for the update

TxGlock9
11-10-2012, 14:30
great update.. might have to try the apex one day.

TheExplorer
11-10-2012, 14:46
Excellent review. Thank you for writing this.

cowboy1964
11-10-2012, 15:49
I wish it were an LCI extractor. It's a useful feature for a defensive handgun. Not a deal breaker, but why should I be losing functionality, in addition to spending more money, for something that I already paid for?

dhgeyer
11-10-2012, 17:00
Thank you those who responded.

cowboy1964: You ask a very good question. Why indeed is the Apex extractor not an LCI (loaded chamber indicator)? The answer lies in the way Randy Lee and his team at Apex have solved what they perceive as one of the problems with the Glock LCI extractor.

The Glock LCI extractor indicates a loaded chamber by being pushed further out from the center of the slide, allowing a rectangular nub at the front of the extractor to protrude from the slide. This nub can be seen or felt. If there is no round in the chamber, the front of the extractor is allowed to sit, under spring tension, far enough into the slide that the nub does not protrude.

In order for this system to work, the case, as it is loaded from the magazine into the chamber, must push the extractor outward. In the Glock design, this is accomplished by angling the end of the extractor claw in such a way that the case, as it moves upward, ramps the extractor outward. This is the 17 degree angle that is often referred to.

The problem with this angled claw is that, as the case ramps the extractor outward, it compresses the spring which tensions the extractor. Thus, by definition, the extractor is under the LEAST tension when the back of the barrel is ramped down. That is when the extractor actually does its job and wants to be under maximum tension.

Apex solved the problem by making the extractor claw straight up and down - not angled. That way the extractor moves very little, and is under very near maximum spring tension when it needs to be. But, this prevents the extractor from providing information about the state of the chamber.

By and large, I think Apex's reasoning is sound. S&W, and others, cut a notch in the back of the barrel hood so that one can look down and see any case in the chamber. I personally once did this to a 1911 barrel. As long as this notch does not go further forward than the solid portion of the web of the cartridge case, there is no compromise of safety in doing this. Other companies find other ways to indicate a loaded chamber. I think some states require some sort of loaded chamber indicator. I do personally believe that Glock did not take the best approach to meeting this requirement.

I must note, however, that it is possible to use the extractor as an LCI without angling the claw. Kahr pistols do this. They do it by placing the "at rest" position of the extractor further in, and relying on the recoil spring to force the extractor outward during feeding. This approach requires a delicate balance, though. If you try to have too much movement of the extractor by having it too far in when at rest, you make feeding more difficult and may encounter problems at that end of the cycle. If you make the recoil spring very strong (which Kahr does), it can get kind of hard for someone with small or relatively weak hands to cycle the action, for example to clear a jam.

My bottom line is I'd just as soon have some other LCI, and not use the extractor for this purpose. The notch in the back top of the barrel is one approach. Another that Ruger uses on its target .22's is a separate pivoting piece on the left side that is pushed out by the cartridge case. There are several ways to do it. I say let the extractor do its job and be an extractor.

19crew
11-10-2012, 18:23
Nice review, I have an apex sitting here just waiting for the spring plunger to come in the mail.

In case it matters to anyone, this batch of apex extractors have "apex" engraved on their side.

GThirtyTwo
11-11-2012, 07:24
Great post I'll have to give one a try even though I don't really need one :supergrin:

Arc Angel
11-11-2012, 18:46
Yup! Somebody has very good mechanical instincts. Glock's LCI extractor was, indeed, created as an afterthought to all of the good press Springfield XD's were getting on their loaded chamber indicators. Since day one I have regarded Glock's LCI extractors as an expedient mistake. After reading this thread I, now, know exactly why.

Well done! :thumbsup:

Beanie-Bean
11-11-2012, 18:46
Installed one today (extractor+EDP spring that shipped with it) in one of my G19 Gen4 models (the black one) and noticed the claw has a much different shape/fit when compared to the original #2 extractor.

Anyway, I put two 100-count boxes of WWB 115 gr. through it today, and only got hit in the head once. Everything else ejected where it was supposed to: away and right. There were a few (maybe two) which just dribbled out of the ejection port, but I recognize that from underpowered loads. I haven't shot 115 gr. in quite a while, and I really wanted to see how the Apex extractor ran with it. In my opinion, I'd say that it did just fine, and would probably be flawless with 124 or 147 gr. ammo. However, I'd like to try loading up some 115 gr. FMJ over Power Pistol and Unique on the low-side of the spectrum to see if it'll work as described in dgheyer's posts. I will also try to use some more stout loads that I've marked in green on my load spreadsheet for different powders.

As long as the factory extractors are working fine for me, I think that I'll just leave them in after the Apex tests are completed.

If you're having trouble with BTF on your 9x19 Gen4 model, I'd recommend checking out one of these to see if it may help you out. If anything, the workmanship is really nice on the part, and I'd use it in confidence when mine finally needs replacement.

I'll load up some 124 gr. FMJ for the next run, and will put the Apex through another set of tests.

dhgeyer
11-11-2012, 19:58
Beanie-Bean:

Don't forget that Apex recommends you use a non-LCI spring loaded bearing with their setup. It has a longer "head", which compresses the EDP spring more. In my tests I used a homemade SLB that does the same thing. I think that the more tension you can get on that extractor, the better. Maybe on your next test you'll get 0 BTF.
I haven't had any yet, but I haven't shot as many weak loads as you have, although I think I've shot weaker ones.

Beanie-Bean
11-11-2012, 22:10
Don't forget that Apex recommends you use a non-LCI spring loaded bearing (SP 01176) with their setup. It has a longer "head", which compresses the EDP spring more. In my tests I used a homemade SLB that does the same thing. I think that the more tension you can get on that extractor, the better. Maybe on your next test you'll get 0 BTF.
I haven't had any yet, but I haven't shot as many weak loads as you have, although I think I've shot weaker ones.

dhg,

Thanks for the reply. I looked back at the site, and saw that the old non-LCI slb was prescribed by Randy for optimal performance. I'll try to see if the LE shop has some on-hand so I can re-test the 115 gr. ammo.

I've got a little bit of 115 gr. FMJ and some Hornady XTP I can load up to test out the correct setup to validate the performance.

dhgeyer
11-12-2012, 09:45
Back from the range. My Gen4 G17 USA with Apex extractor and setup will not eject a case without the magazine in place. I tried multiple times. The cases fall down the magazine well.

My G19 Gen4 with stock new style non-dip extractor, White Sound Defense 20% extra power extractor depressor plunger spring and extra tension spring loaded bearing will eject without a magazine in place. Interesting. One of these days I'll go out and mix and match between the guns and see what happens.

In any event, the Apex setup continues to run flawlessly when the gun is used as it was designed to be used - with the mag in place.

clarkz71
11-12-2012, 11:20
In case it matters to anyone, this batch of apex extractors have "apex" engraved on their side.

Can you post a pic of that?

gunsmoke92
11-12-2012, 11:30
There is a question I just can't help but ask, but ask it I will (and because I haven't had the time or money to buy a bunch of parts and try them out). If the problems started showing up with the introduction of the LCI extrctor, why not just install an old non-LCI Glock OEM part and move on? Or did Glock change the slide geometry to the point the old part won't fit? :dunno:

English
11-12-2012, 11:49
Back from the range. My Gen4 G17 USA with Apex extractor and setup will not eject a case without the magazine in place. I tried multiple times. The cases fall down the magazine well.

.....

I fear that means that, although the Apex extractor is better than the Glock versions, it is still not right. It should eject without a magazine in place.

Excellent write ups that extend the knowledge base by the way.

English

JBS
11-12-2012, 12:54
Back from the range. My Gen4 G17 USA with Apex extractor and setup will not eject a case without the magazine in place. I tried multiple times. The cases fall down the magazine well.

My G19 Gen4 with stock new style non-dip extractor, White Sound Defense 20% extra power extractor depressor plunger spring and extra tension spring loaded bearing will eject without a magazine in place. Interesting. One of these days I'll go out and mix and match between the guns and see what happens.

In any event, the Apex setup continues to run flawlessly when the gun is used as it was designed to be used - with the mag in place.

Curious, will the Apex hold the case rim tight against the opposite side of the breach when in the tilted case position?

dhgeyer
11-12-2012, 13:44
Curious, will the Apex hold the case rim tight against the opposite side of the breach when in the tilted case position?

Not sure what you mean by the tilted case position. Do you mean the position the case would be in when the back of the barrel is ramped down and the slide is back at or near the point of ejection? If that's what you mean, then the answer is yes.

There is a test that I was taught a long time ago that you do on a 1911 type pistol to adjust the extractor. For those that are unfamiliar with the 1911, the extractor is itself a long spring, inserted in a hole in the back of the slide. It has a cylindrical section at the back where it is anchored in its channel, a flat section in the middle, and the claw at the front. To adjust tension all you have to do is bend the middle part a little. You don't even need tools. Just stick it halfway in its hole in the slide and push sideways. You want enough tension on the case to eject reliably, but not so much that it impedes the case sliding up under the claw during feeding.

So the test is, put an empty case under the extractor in the position it would be in when the barrel is linked down. Shake the slide moderately. The extractor should be able to hold the empty case against light to moderate shaking when the slide is held top up and bottom down. Then do the same thing with a live round. The extractor should have enough tension to hold the case with the slide top up, but any shaking should cause it to fall out. I don't know if people do that test anymore, but I always found that it got the extractor to a good working tension.

So, I tried it with both my Gen4 Glocks. The G17 has the Apex setup. The G19 has a new style non-dip extractor obtained from Glockparts.com, White Sound Defense extra power spring, and extra tension spring loaded bearing. Both guns held both an empty case and a loaded round against what I would call more than moderate shaking. I'm not sure what that means. The 9mm round is, of course, much lighter than the 45 ACP. Still, with that amount of tension one would think the gun would eject without the magazine in place. The G19 with the Glock extractor and aftermarket parts described above will eject without the magazine.

Maybe what it means is that the Glock is not and never was designed to work without a magazine, and the "1911" test is not valid for these pistols.

JBS
11-12-2012, 15:02
. Do you mean the position the case would be in when the back of the barrel is ramped down and the slide is back at or near the point of ejection? If that's what you mean, then the answer is yes.

Yes that is what I was asking, and yes the 1911 test with the Apex. Interesting the Apex still exhibits the through the mag well eject.

PM720
11-12-2012, 15:35
Yes that is what I was asking, and yes the 1911 test with the Apex. Interesting the Apex still exhibits the through the mag well eject.

Well, that DOES eliminate BTF! :whistling::rofl:

Scott

Made in Austria
11-12-2012, 16:32
I fear that means that, although the Apex extractor is better than the Glock versions, it is still not right. It should eject without a magazine in place.

Excellent write ups that extend the knowledge base by the way.

English

I think all Glocks eject through the mag well if the mag is removed from the gun. At least all of mine do/newer Glocks do.

This is because of the downward barrel tilt. The chamber tears the shell casing downward/off the breech face/extractor claw a bit, while the slide travels rearward with the empty casing. This happens only if the mag is removed. When the mag is in the gun, then the top round or the follower acts like a rail. The top round/follower makes sure that the shell casing stays centered on the breech face, so that the extractor claw can hold it properly, till it gets hit by the ejector.

I think older Glock's have less barrel tilt angle, so that the casing doesn't get pushed down/away from the breech and extractor claw too far.

I am pretty sure that Glock changed the barrel tilt angle on the .40 models. Older .40 Glocks have a less supported chamber in certain areas, which caused case failures from time to time, even with slightly overcharged powder loads.

The reason for a less unsupported chamber in the forty's was to increase feeding reliability. The round can be chambered in a more flat angle. Too steep chamberings are not good and can cause FTF under certain circumstances.

I think Glock fixed this problem with releasing guns which can tilt the barrel down farther, so the chambering angel of the round is a little more flatter, and the chamber can be machined more supportive.

Downside of more barrel tilt: possible erratic ejection patterns, if you don't redesign the extractor, and the magazine has to be in the gun to eject the casing properly. I think last is not really a downside for me.

Made in Austria
11-12-2012, 16:54
I also experianced that a Glock can eject without an ejector, not very reliable but it works. It depends on the slide velocity and on the magazine. Without the ejector it will eject either, straight up, straight back, downrange, to the left, and to the right. It will eject almost everytime straight up if the mag spring is in good condition and is at lest half full. I call it, pure magazine ejections. Kind of like the ejection mechanism of a Remington 870 pump shotgun, where a ejector spring is mounted on the side which pushes/kicks the empty to the right and out of the ejection port, when you pump it back. The speed of your pump can change the angle of ejection.

The mag spring pushes the empty casing straight out of the ejection port if the slide velocity isn't too high. And in some cases it gets hit by the slide so that the casing starts bouncing around in the ejection port till it gets hit by some slide area and gets kicked in random directions. It can also stovepipe. The ejector plays no roll if the casing doesn't stay on its proper spot on the breech.

Southwind
11-12-2012, 17:32
Randy Lee posted a video on m4carbine.net showing test firing with the gen 3 extractor. Ejection was perfect when holding the G17 with one hand (the left) and no magazine. Looks promising.

Someone asked about using an old non-LCI extractor. That is what fixed my Gen 3 Glock 19. That is, it made the ejection consistent and well off to the right -- ejection without a mag is about half the time. Using 30274 ejector although the ejection wasn't bad with the 336.

Walk Soft
11-12-2012, 17:43
[QUOTE=dhgeyer;19615915] As a disclaimer I must say that the gun came with a non-dipped extractor, and before firing it the first time I put in a White Sound Defense 20% extra power extractor depressor plunger spring, and a homemade spring loaded bearing designed to tension said spring even more. In this configuration the gun wasn't a problem. It ejected everything from WWB to Gold Dots and 2 power levels of handloads reliably and in the right direction. It would not eject without the magazine in place.

So,you don't know how the gun ejected in the stock configuration?:dunno:

19crew
11-12-2012, 18:12
Can you post a pic of that?


Not the best picture, click for larger

http://i47.tinypic.com/1z2134o.jpg

Engraving is deep and looks nicely done, however, I'd prefer it not be there. Installed pictures to come later in the week.

dhgeyer
11-12-2012, 19:34
So,you don't know how the gun ejected in the stock configuration?:dunno:

That is correct. Much as it may appear to the contrary, I am not interested in experimentation purely for its own sake. My goal is to have guns that work as well as possible. I was burned when I bought an early production Gen4 G19 a year or so ago. I never was able to make that one run reliably. In the meantime I have learned that certain things definitely help with Gen4 Glocks. More tension on the extractor is one of them. So I did not waste time and money proving that yet one more time.

curlysir
11-12-2012, 19:34
Not the best picture, click for larger

http://i47.tinypic.com/1z2134o.jpg

Engraving is deep and looks nicely done, however, I'd prefer it not be there. Installed pictures to come later in the week.

I would also prefer that the extractor not be engraved. I was thinking about ordering one but will probably wait now as I don't seem to have the problem that other are having with BTF.

kenndapp
11-12-2012, 19:42
[QUOTE=dhgeyer;19615915] As a disclaimer I must say that the gun came with a non-dipped extractor, and before firing it the first time I put in a White Sound Defense 20% extra power extractor depressor plunger spring, and a homemade spring loaded bearing designed to tension said spring even more. In this configuration the gun wasn't a problem. It ejected everything from WWB to Gold Dots and 2 power levels of handloads reliably and in the right direction. It would not eject without the magazine in place.

So,you don't know how the gun ejected in the stock configuration?:dunno:
Not to derail but after reading this post I quickly checked out white sound defense and found their stuff intriguing. How is their spring quality? Any reason to choose them over wolf or ismi?

dhgeyer
11-12-2012, 19:55
[quote=Walk Soft;19624231]
Not to derail but after reading this post I quickly checked out white sound defense and found their stuff intriguing. How is their spring quality? Any reason to choose them over wolf or ismi?

I never heard of ismi. I have used a number of Wolff springs over the years for several different applications and have never been disappointed. If they make a 20% extra power extractor depressor plunger spring, I'm sure it would be fine. I never even looked to see if they do, as people on this forum pointed me to White Sound Defense.

The spring that comes with the Apex unit is also extra power, but I have never seen a spec that says by how much.

dhgeyer
11-13-2012, 11:39
I think someone asked for this image. I Photoshopped out most of the serial number in case the 2 letters seem odd to anyone.

http://www.gallery1700.net/linkto/glockapex.jpg

clarkz71
11-13-2012, 11:48
I think someone asked for this image. I Photoshopped out most of the serial number in case the 2 letters seem odd to anyone.

http://www.gallery1700.net/linkto/glockapex.jpg

That was me, thanks.

jtrudel31
11-13-2012, 13:39
Why would they engrave it??? Looks silly in my opinion. Probably will hurt sales for sure. Glad I got one of the NON-engraved ones. Its like having ketchup with a friggin Filet mignon. You can but why would you? :dunno:

dhgeyer
11-13-2012, 16:06
Different priorities I suppose. I never gave the desirability of engraving a second thought till just now. All else being equal I guess I could live without it, yes. But I don't really care. It's a quality part that works. That's all I thought about. I'll buy another one for the G17 when/if I win the availability lottery again.

As a matter of fact, I wouldn't buy or not buy anything Glock related on the basis of looks. Including, no, ESPECIALLY the gun itself! Not when I've got vintage Colts and Smith & Wessons in the safe.

Arc Angel
11-13-2012, 16:13
If I'm going to pay $70 bucks for, of all things, a Glock extractor (10 to 15 percent of the cost of a new Glock!) then I want it to say something cool like, 'Apex' ;)

TTex
11-13-2012, 16:27
I think the engraving looks pretty sharp, besides, I know if they stamp their name on it they must have some confidence in it. (You have a vested interest in the outcome if you put your name on something)

Having said that you can keep that ugly dog they stamp on Lone Wolf barrels! Yuck!

packinaglock
11-13-2012, 17:15
I never gave it a second thought, looks fine to me.

TheExplorer
11-13-2012, 17:36
Looks cheesy, but if it works, who cares.

PAGunner
11-13-2012, 22:42
This thread is making me reconsider my stance against Glock and buying a 19, it is a damn shame Glock couldn't have fixed the problem themselves though.

Arc Angel
11-14-2012, 06:01
This thread is making me reconsider my stance against Glock and buying a 19 .......

Right now, that WOULD be the intelligent thing to do. ;)

krs7272
11-14-2012, 08:12
My hopes are they make one for the 23. As I still have occasional BTF even with glocks updated ejector.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

freekshow001
11-14-2012, 12:19
Has anyone tried just the extra power spring with the stock extractor? Maybe the glock springs are cheap and wear out after 1000 rounds and that's what could be a cause of the problems.

dhgeyer
11-14-2012, 12:48
Has anyone tried just the extra power spring with the stock extractor? Maybe the glock springs are cheap and wear out after 1000 rounds and that's what could be a cause of the problems.

I think we have learned, by many people experimenting with replacing various parts, that there isn't one culprit that's the same for every problem gun.

Having said that, I do strongly believe that the three parts in the channel behind the extractor are definitely causing problems. I have observed the following with my guns:

1. The stock extractor depressor plunger spring is weak to start with. I'm sure it doesn't get any stronger with use.

2. The plastic spring loaded bearing (SLB) is indented at its front end to mate with a nib at the back end of the extractor depressor plunger (EDP). As the extractor flexes outward the EDP moves rearward and hits the SLB. It doesn't take many rounds at all before the SLB shows signs of taking a heck of a beating. After 500 rounds or so the front end of the SLB is badly deformed. Since I assume this structure is designed to limit the travel of the extractor, that means that after a while it fails to do so.

3. The EDP starts showing wear just behind its front end fairly quickly. The slide, evidently being harder material, digs into the EDP at the end of the channel. I must also assume that the end of the channel is fairly sharp in order to do this. I replaced the EDP's in both my guns fairly early on with ones I made myself which are much harder in the affected area. But I must believe that if this wear were to continue, it would cause binding, interfering with the free movement of the EDP.

Most of the conversations on this board that deal with extraction/ejection problems focus on the extractor. I believe that the other parts involved should be inspected and, if needed, replaced when problems start to show up.

The White Sound Defense HRED seems to work for some. As an alternative, just replacing the spring with the White Sound 20% extra power one can't hurt, along with replacing the SLB and EDP if needed.

Photoman642
11-14-2012, 13:00
Not the best picture, click for larger

http://i47.tinypic.com/1z2134o.jpg

Engraving is deep and looks nicely done, however, I'd prefer it not be there. Installed pictures to come later in the week.


Yuk!!! :steamed:

F106 Fan
11-14-2012, 13:11
Downside of more barrel tilt: possible erratic ejection patterns, if you don't redesign the extractor, and the magazine has to be in the gun to eject the casing properly. I think last is not really a downside for me.

I think this could be a really big deal. Say you're in a gunfight and you have chambered your last round (yes, you're a 'round counter') so you eject the empty mag and start to insert a full one when, all of a sudden, it's really important to crank off a round. Right now... Good thing there is no magazine disconnect!

But I wonder how the reload will work out.

Richard

F106 Fan
11-14-2012, 13:29
This thread is making me reconsider my stance against Glock and buying a 19, it is a damn shame Glock couldn't have fixed the problem themselves though.

Are you sure that these parts, in some combination, are a universal fix for every problematic Glock? They certainly don't fix the Gen 3s. Apex hasn't gotten that far...

I'm not convinced that ejection through the mag well is an enhanced feature. It may well be that this problem can't be solved if it is caused by the barrel tilting down so far the case moves below the extractor.

Next time I get to the range, I'm going to test the ejection with magazine removed on a number of pistols. I'm kind of curious.

I have finally reached the magic round count on my Gen 3 G21SF and BTF is now quite common.

Richard

PAGunner
11-14-2012, 13:29
I think this could be a really big deal. Say you're in a gunfight and you have chambered your last round (yes, you're a 'round counter') so you eject the empty mag and start to insert a full one when, all of a sudden, it's really important to crank off a round. Right now... Good thing there is no magazine disconnect!

But I wonder how the reload will work out.

Richard

Could potentially be a problem, but then again a lot of things could potentially be a problem, but VERY unlikely. It's more of an academic problem then a real life problem.

dhgeyer
11-14-2012, 16:53
If I didn't mention it in this thread, my Gen4 G19, which has a Glock new production non-dip MIM extractor, homemade extractor depressor plunger and spring loaded bearing, and White Sound Defense 20% extra power extractor depressor plunger spring, will very reliably eject without the magazine. I have done the test with a variety of ammo, including WWB as well as more potent loads.

Apex put out a video while they were developing their extractor, that showed one of their prototypes in a Glock ejecting without the mag in place.

For this reason, I doubt that there is anything in the basic design, or geometry of the gun, that prevents this.

The recent Gen3 pistols seem to be a thornier problem. But it does seem that, with the right combination of OEM and/or aftermarket parts, the Gen4's can be made to run. They may or may not run without the mag in place, but they will run. What is puzzling, and frustrating, is that what works in one individual gun may not in another. So you buy a gun, and if there are problems, you start buying (or in my case making) parts and playing mix and match until you find the solution.

These are not your father's Glocks!

jtrudel31
11-15-2012, 01:10
Yuk!!! :steamed:

if the part was 20 bucks I could let the engraving go . But after almost 70 bucks with shipping I'd be steamed.:steamed:

English
11-15-2012, 09:33
if the part was 20 bucks I could let the engraving go . But after almost 70 bucks with shipping I'd be steamed.:steamed:

If you spend $70 on a part to fix a problem the manufacturer can't fix you want the part manufacturer's name on it so that you can recoup your money when you sell it.

English

clarkz71
11-15-2012, 09:37
If you spend $70 on a part to fix a problem the manufacturer can't fix you want the part manufacturer's name on it so that you can recoup your money when you sell it.

English

100% correct.

krs7272
11-15-2012, 11:08
Inquired to Apex as to a .40 model. They said they are working on one. But couldn't tell me when they would be available.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

19crew
11-15-2012, 17:57
Got mine installed today, shot a 100 through it, no problems. Not sure what to think about it, my factory ejector would chuck brass and it would land everywhere, this one seems to drop it near my feet, the ejection doesn't seem anywhere near as forceful, however, it could be that I'm not noticing it due to the ejectors adjusted angle.

I replaced mine because I was just starting to get erratic beams to the forehead every 100 or so with the factory extractor at approx 1k total rounds through the gun.

Riverkilt
11-16-2012, 07:43
A couple questions for the experts. Can a novice install the Apex Tactical ejector? Does Apex send instructions on installation with the part - or have a video on how to do it. Or am I gonna be leaving money at the gunsmith's too?

Just bought a Glock 26 Gen 4 and out of the box all cases ejected into my face. Grumble...would think the guy who shot the two rounds in the box woulda been hit in the face too and not shipped it.

Changed the spring and rod thingie to stainless steel and now the ejected cases don't hit me in the face. They do drop onto my head every time - like rain.

Willing to spend the $70 for the Apex ejector IF I have some confidence I can take the old one out and put the Apex in without screwing anything up.

Thanks for any info on this.

19crew
11-16-2012, 07:53
A couple questions for the experts. Can a novice install the Apex Tactical ejector? Does Apex send instructions on installation with the part - or have a video on how to do it. Or am I gonna be leaving money at the gunsmith's too?

Just bought a Glock 26 Gen 4 and out of the box all cases ejected into my face. Grumble...would think the guy who shot the two rounds in the box woulda been hit in the face too and not shipped it.

Changed the spring and rod thingie to stainless steel and now the ejected cases don't hit me in the face. They do drop onto my head every time - like rain.

Willing to spend the $70 for the Apex ejector IF I have some confidence I can take the old one out and put the Apex in without screwing anything up.

Thanks for any info on this.


No instructions, if you can watch a 5 minute youtube video and you have a punch, small screwdriver or something there abouts you can do it. Hard to mess anything up.

Riverkilt
11-16-2012, 07:56
Thanks, just got my Glock punch thingie in the mail. Lots of screwdrivers. Now have to wait until Apex gets some back in stock.

dhgeyer
11-16-2012, 07:58
Can a novice install the Apex Tactical ejector? Does Apex send instructions on installation with the part - or have a video on how to do it. in.

Hard to say not knowing your level of mechanical skills. Apex does not send instructions. I would suggest you go to Youtube and do a search on detail stripping a Glock. You will get more hits than you can watch. Some are better than others, and some actually show it being done incorrectly, but you should be able to weed out the lemons if you watch a few of them. Glocks all come apart the same way. You are interested in the slide. The parts you are replacing are the extractor and extractor depressor plunger spring, not the ejector. You should also order a non-LCI spring loaded bearing from Glockparts.com or some similar source, as Apex suggests replacing this part also. It doesn't make the job any harder.

The job shouldn't be beyond most people.

sciolist
11-16-2012, 14:41
A couple questions for the experts. Can a novice install the Apex Tactical ejector? Does Apex send instructions on installation with the part - or have a video on how to do it. Or am I gonna be leaving money at the gunsmith's too?

Just bought a Glock 26 Gen 4 and out of the box all cases ejected into my face. Grumble...would think the guy who shot the two rounds in the box woulda been hit in the face too and not shipped it.

Changed the spring and rod thingie to stainless steel and now the ejected cases don't hit me in the face. They do drop onto my head every time - like rain.

Willing to spend the $70 for the Apex ejector IF I have some confidence I can take the old one out and put the Apex in without screwing anything up.

Thanks for any info on this.

If you can swap recoil springs, you can swap extractors. Sooner or later you'll need to learn to clean your gun, so might as well break the slide down now.

Thanks for posting on this, guys.

Arc Angel
11-16-2012, 16:43
A couple questions for the experts. Can a novice install the Apex Tactical ejector? Does Apex send instructions on installation with the part - or have a video on how to do it. Or am I gonna be leaving money at the gunsmith's too?

Just bought a Glock 26 Gen 4 and out of the box all cases ejected into my face. Grumble...would think the guy who shot the two rounds in the box woulda been hit in the face too and not shipped it.

Changed the spring and rod thingie to stainless steel and now the ejected cases don't hit me in the face. They do drop onto my head every time - like rain.

Willing to spend the $70 for the Apex ejector IF I have some confidence I can take the old one out and put the Apex in without screwing anything up.

Thanks for any info on this.

Here, enjoy the pretty pictures:

http://glockparts.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=Glock Disassembly

If you like to read, here's everything you'll ever need to know in order to take a Glock completely apart without any surprises:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/blog.php?b=584

(By the way, what you want to do is, ....... easy!) ;)

Riverkilt
11-16-2012, 19:22
Thanks! Found the video with the gun vise and hammer slamming the punch thingie into the slide...curioser and curioser. Best take the parts to a gunsmith for me....

tech859
11-16-2012, 19:42
Thanks! Found the video with the gun vise and hammer slamming the punch thingie into the slide...curioser and curioser. Best take the parts to a gunsmith for me....

You can take down the slide with the tip of a mechanical pencil on your kitchen table. It really is worth a shot, and is extremely easy. It is important to understand how your firearm works, and how it is assembled.

Riverkilt
11-16-2012, 19:44
Cool, thanks. Wonder why the video guy, something Lee...had to use a vise and BIG hammer...??

19crew
11-16-2012, 21:03
Cool, thanks. Wonder why the video guy, something Lee...had to use a vise and BIG hammer...??

Don't let anyone fool you, this is an easy swap. You don't need a hammer, ever. Plus, you need to know how to do this for proper cleaning periodically. The first time you do this it might take you 30 minutes, the second time maybe 5.

Simple video found here:
Glock Cleaning 2 (Slide Disassembly) - YouTube

Hell, you can even practice taking out your stock ejector. The most confusing part is pushing down / sliding forward the black plastic part in front of the silver striker.

dhgeyer
11-16-2012, 22:17
Cool, thanks. Wonder why the video guy, something Lee...had to use a vise and BIG hammer...??

Well, I told you there were videos with incorrect information on Youtube. Now you need to go find one that shows you how to do it right. The one that Hickok45 did, see above post, is pretty good.

The one thing that some of the videos don't stress that's important is, you need to keep your thumb over the end of the slide as you push the cover plate off, or you'll be chasing the extractor tensioning parts across the room. Hickok45 shows using screwdrivers to start the cover off, and that's OK if it's stiff, which it will be the first time or two. But, and this is a big but, don't go far enough with the screwdrivers to free the extractor tensioning system. Keep your thumb over the back after you get the plate started.

There is no need to take a hammer to a Glock to take it apart. EVER!

Glock2336
11-16-2012, 22:22
Cool, thanks. Wonder why the video guy, something Lee...had to use a vise and BIG hammer...??


Uhhh that's Randy Lee of Apex Tactical installing an extractor on an M&P. Yes a hammer is needed for that install, not for Glocks.

An 8 year old can easily install the Glock Extractor.

SJ 40
11-16-2012, 22:38
No hammer needed for disassembly of a Glock nor should one be used,if you even think you need one you are doing something wrong. SJ 40

Riverkilt
11-27-2012, 22:07
Okay, back in stock at Apex and ordered one up today....the challenge looms. Now gotta go get one of those special springie deals too.

Still angry it didn't work right out of the box and that the tester who took the two rounds in the face at the factory went ahead and shipped it.....grumble....

Reminds me of the story of the antique hunter who stopped to talk to a New England farmer along a back road. He offered to buy the old axe the farmer was using. Farmer refused saying it was George Washington's axe and he'd never sell it. The antique hunter agreed it looked old, but not old enough to be George Washington's axe. The farmer said, "Well, its had two new heads and three new handles - but its George Washington's axe."

Kinda like my Glock...lotta new parts....

TheExplorer
11-28-2012, 09:30
Here, enjoy the pretty pictures:

http://glockparts.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=Glock Disassembly

If you like to read, here's everything you'll ever need to know in order to take a Glock completely apart without any surprises:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/blog.php?b=584

(By the way, what you want to do is, ....... easy!) ;)

Good job, thanks.:goodpost:

Riverkilt
12-01-2012, 11:41
Okay, have the new Apex Tactical extractor in but couldn't get the spring off the plunger thingie....so gonna try it out with the stock spring. Original spring seems locked tight to both parts of the assembly. If it works with the original spring good enough. Can't find a video or instructions on how to get the spring seperated from the other parts its attached to. Challenges.

Off to the range.

Okay back from the range. Ran 50 rounds of the same ammo as before through it. Most of the cases eject at 4 o'clock now...a few get close at 5 o'clock....but none to the face and none raining on my head. All I had to do was pay $120 in parts to fix what should have been good out of the box.

Now gonna research how to seperate the extractor depressor plunger spring from the extractor depressor plunger and the spring loaded bearing. Maybe with the new Apex Tactical spring it'll be even better.

JBP55
12-01-2012, 13:38
Okay, have the new Apex Tactical extractor in but couldn't get the spring off the plunger thingie....so gonna try it out with the stock spring. Original spring seems locked tight to both parts of the assembly. If it works with the original spring good enough. Can't find a video or instructions on how to get the spring seperated from the other parts its attached to. Challenges.

Off to the range.


You should be able to pull the spring off by hand from each end.

dhgeyer
12-01-2012, 14:01
Now gonna research how to seperate the extractor depressor plunger spring from the extractor depressor plunger and the spring loaded bearing. Maybe with the new Apex Tactical spring it'll be even better.

To get the spring off the plunger: more force - sometimes they're on there pretty tight. There's a little groove in the nub that spring is on, and the last coil sits in it. Just pull like Hell. Working it side to side while pulling helps.

To get the spring off the spring loaded bearing: The trick there is to get something between the "head" of the SLB and the first coil. If a thumbnail won't work, then something sharp, then pry. Do be careful not to dig into the SLB, though. It is plastic after all. Another trick would be to stick a knife blade in between the coils of the spring right at the small (front) end of the SLB, and while holding the side of blade against the SLB, pull the end of the spring toward the knife blade. Don't cut yourself. It shouldn't be on the SLB as tight as on the plunger.

Riverkilt
12-01-2012, 14:16
Thanks for those tips...was reluctant to pull too hard until I got some info on what's up. Figure if Apex sent just the spring it must be doable.

Guessing its gonna be just as difficult to get the new Apex spring back on....??

dhgeyer
12-01-2012, 14:28
Guessing its gonna be just as difficult to get the new Apex spring back on....??

Neither is really that hard once you do it a time or two. I can understand and applaud not wanting to use too much force without knowing it's OK to do it. Just push the spring on there with whatever ooomph it takes. Hold it a little bit behind the part that goes on the plunger so you're not working against yourself. Just push the SLB in: it won't be that hard.

Riverkilt
12-01-2012, 15:56
Thanks...a project for tomorrow. Wonder why Apex doesn't include instructions...guess lawyers run the world....

Riverkilt
12-02-2012, 11:43
Thanks again dhgeyer. Got the spring changed out this morning. Piece of cake with a head's up. Headed for the range to see what happens now.

dhgeyer
12-02-2012, 12:55
Thanks again dhgeyer. Got the spring changed out this morning. Piece of cake with a head's up. Headed for the range to see what happens now.

Well, do let us know if there's any difference. Every piece of the puzzle helps.

Riverkilt
12-02-2012, 13:30
Back from the range - ran 100 rounds of the same ammo through. First 6 rounds shot hot cases back at my face!! What's up with that? Worked great with the old glock spring and the new Apex extractor, but the new Apex Tactical spring "restored" the original problem. But then...they started flying out at 4 and 5 o'clock. Swept up the other brass to check each mag's cases. Went out in the sand so it'd be easy to spot my fresh cases. Once past that first weirdo magazine the cases stayed at 4 o'clock and 5 o'clock...just sort of a clutter of them there - about 4 feet out. Shooting in the sand helped since there was no rolling around like on the cement at the main shooting stations. Was the only one there so it was safe.

Gotta give this now sorta-kinda Glock 26 its due. Since I was just shooting to see the case ejection pattern started shooting at the metal targets 100 yards out. Danged if I didn't hit the first 100 yard target with the first shot! Ran about 30 rounds at the 100 yard steel targets (duck sized targets)...hit a LOT and was real close on the rest. Didn't expect the Glock 26 to have that kind of accuracy at that range....well now its a Glock/Apex 26....

Which reminds me. My Apex extractor dealie did not have the word Apex on it...but still think it voids the Glock warranty.

Again, thanks for all the coaching and tips to help me get these changes made and a middle finger salute to Glock for their total lack of interest in correcting an obvious two year old "brass to face" problem themselves...