Good reason to never buy Craftsman tools again [Archive] - Glock Talk

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sdsnet
11-10-2012, 10:30
This is one major problem with "some" companies in this country and of course countries like China...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/popular-wrench-fights-chinese-rival-004542621.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/popular-wrench-fights-chinese-rival-004542621.html)

USMCsilver
11-10-2012, 10:36
Screw Sears.

I buy Kobalt tools, anyway. Lowe's will take them back without any fuss what-so-ever.

FullClip
11-10-2012, 10:43
Yeah...I hate Chinese knockoffs, and will pay more for something made in the USA 99% of the time.
But I've had a lot of Craftsman tools, some over 30 years old, and have only returned a 3/8" ratchet that finally crapped out after years of use and abuse. No questions asked, the clerk gave me a new one, although it's not as nice as the old orignal one.
Can't balme Sears so much as the folks willing to save a couple bucks and get the cheap imitation things.

TK-421
11-10-2012, 10:47
Man, and Craftsman used to be one of the best too. Oh well, time to find a better manufacturer who actually makes their tools in the US. I always try to buy US made if I can. Foreign workers get enough money from us as it is, time to let our citizens get some money too.

HollowHead
11-10-2012, 10:53
Didn't Sears do the exact same thing to the guy who invented the quick-release ratchet handle years ago? HH

Averageman
11-10-2012, 10:57
I own a wide variety of tools and most of them are ten to twenty years old and most of the are Craftsman tools.
I dont care where they were made, they do good work for me here and allow me to make a living.
Getting a Lawyer and fighting Sears for producing that knock off is what he should do.

glock_19guy1983
11-10-2012, 11:06
This is why all of my lineman tools are Klein and most of my hand tools are Snap On and Mac.

Adjuster
11-10-2012, 11:09
The guy invented a good product. He had multiple offers to purchase his design and patent. He could have made a deal to sell with a share of future sales/profits. He decided to go it alone. And now he is being beat down by a larger, more substantial, more profitable company with the resources to manufacturer and distribute at a better price. I don't see the problem. If Craftsman did patent infringement then that will be decided by the court. Or the consumer can step up and only purchase Mr. Browns product. Thats not going to happen as the Craftsman name carries much more weight then the Mr. Brown Bionic Wrench. Throwing the 'its American made' card into his argument is an emotional ploy to better his chances in his lawsuit.




/

cowboywannabe
11-10-2012, 11:41
buy cheye...nese tooools and help pay off our debt to them.

Berto
11-10-2012, 11:50
The 3/8 drive ratchets don't withstand being thrown into concrete very well, aside from that...

RenoF250
11-10-2012, 12:11
Craftsman has been tumbling down hill for awhile. The only thing left made in USA is the wrench and ratchet sets. Even those have the Companion MiC brand. If I want MiC I will go to HF and pay 1/3 the price, they take them back too.

It is no wonder Sears has been struggling to stay alive.

DaneA
11-10-2012, 12:24
Apextoolgroup makes many of the popular brands out there. Including craftsman, gearwrench, and crescent. There is nothing wrong with Chinese quality. They build the stuff to the specs given to them by their customers. We, as consumers, demand cheap crap so that's what we get.


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Harper
11-10-2012, 12:31
Craftsman has been tumbling down hill for awhile. The only thing left made in USA is the wrench and ratchet sets.

They've started making the ratchets in china too.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2445740

Adjuster
11-10-2012, 12:55
As stated above. It doesn't matter if the tool is made in Beijing, Dusseldorf, Detroit or Ottawa. If its an American owned company of any reputation the tool is made to specs of materials and quality as set forth by the design. It also has to meet umpteen hundreds of standards just to be imported. If you pay for cheap Chinese you get cheap Chinese. If you pay for quality Chinese you get quality Chinese.



/

janice6
11-10-2012, 13:01
The only Sears Craftsman tools they have replaced under warranty for me in the last 10 years were wrenches and screwdrivers. Anything expensive with the Craftsman name, they refused to replace for me.

I do not see them as having any advantage anymore. I now buy on quality and not on the Craftsman name.

.264 magnum
11-10-2012, 13:05
This is why all of my lineman tools are Klein and most of my hand tools are Snap On and Mac.

I'm not a pro user of tools. But I'm really hard on everything - my 30yo set of Klein Lineman's pliers work as new even though I've used them regularly as a hammer, trenching tool, pry-bar, nail bar etc.

Klein, IMO, makes the best 12 in 1 screwdriver ever as well.

.264 magnum
11-10-2012, 13:07
The guy invented a good product. He had multiple offers to purchase his design and patent. He could have made a deal to sell with a share of future sales/profits. He decided to go it alone. And now he is being beat down by a larger, more substantial, more profitable company with the resources to manufacturer and distribute at a better price. I don't see the problem. If Craftsman did patent infringement then that will be decided by the court. Or the consumer can step up and only purchase Mr. Browns product. Thats not going to happen as the Craftsman name carries much more weight then the Mr. Brown Bionic Wrench. Throwing the 'its American made' card into his argument is an emotional ploy to better his chances in his lawsuit.




/


I can't agree with any of that. Clearly his tool was copied.

BigsWick
11-10-2012, 13:15
Timely.

A couple of months ago I had one of those Craftsman Robo Grip pliers jam up and break when I forced it, so I took it back to Sears. I explained what happend and said I wanted to buy another pair to go with the rest of the set. They were a gift from my dad, so there's a little sentimental attachment, even though they aren't the best locking pliers I've ever owned.

Sears dude says they are warrantied forever since they are American made, no questiones asked, regardless of the fact that technically I broke them. Cool. Only problem is that Sears dropped them from their tool selection because so many guys were having the same problem as me. They offered me a store credit that I chose to use on a Bionic Wrench, the one made in the USA. They had a similar Craftsman one, but it was made in China.

So, at one point they were selling both, and yes, the Made in China version was cheaper.

Gotta add that I have a set of hand tools I bought from Sears 30 years ago and have had no problems. Ever. The newer stuff? Well, I can see a difference in the quality of many items. If you ask they'll tell you that the Made in China stuff doesn't have the lifetime warranty.

alphacat
11-10-2012, 13:16
I only buy tools that are made in China.
It's the new american way to support our friends in other lands.

El_Ron1
11-10-2012, 13:25
http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/obama-bow-chinese.png?w=356&h=265

Gunhaver
11-10-2012, 13:50
You mean Sears didn't make big profits from the Bionic Wrench and then turn around and trickle those profits down to the American people? They chose to send that money to China instead? Shock! Awe!

Annoyedgrunt
11-10-2012, 14:03
Yes, but do their pliers rust?

RonS
11-10-2012, 14:36
Sears is a sleazy operation. They have been busted before for stealing tool designs, to my knowledge a quick release ratchet, and I believe several others.

norton
11-10-2012, 14:42
Sears is stuck in the same problem as most retailers. If they carried only American made tools customers would go down the street and buy Chinese tools at Lowes or Home Depot.
I bought my 10" Craftsman table saw a couple of years ago. it has a cast iron top and cast iron extensions. The top was better finished then the cast iron top on my old Delta (and it was made in the U.S.
I just ripped some lumber with it today. Its a fine saw.
And yes it was made in China.
Welcome to the Global Economy.

Slug71
11-10-2012, 14:47
I only buy Wiha(German) screwdrivers, pliers and other gadgets they make. Love their tools.

Sockets, wrenches and stuff i'll buy Kobalt.

pupcuss27
11-10-2012, 15:19
Yeah...I hate Chinese knockoffs, and will pay more for something made in the USA 99% of the time.

Can't blame Sears so much as the folks willing to save a couple bucks and get the cheap imitation things.

You're right on FullClip in your appraisal of our current population in their wanting "Something for Nothing". All the government has been doing is feeding the want's of these beggars.

She's back again:

Obama Is Going To Pay For My Gas And Mortgage!!! - YouTube

PUP

turretg
11-10-2012, 15:47
http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/obama-bow-chinese.png?w=356&h=265


Says it all.

K.Kiser
11-10-2012, 18:21
In agrreance here... My Dad still has craftsman tools from the late 1960's that work fine, but the stuff in the last sveral years at least is definitely of inferior build..

Wahtever craftsman stuff is in my set now is made up of older craftsman stuff that I've bought 2nd hand from machine shops and mechanics, back when craftsman was still a true to the bone quality tool... Anything else that I need to add to my collection is bought off ebay or the like in brands like matco, snap-on, mac, blue point, blackhawk, etc...

All my daily tools on the electrical site are any quality brand screwdrivers, nutdrivers, channel lock brand, knipex, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. and my linesman pliers HAVE to be Klein with the red replacement handle grips... No exceptions on the lineman pliers..

Indianashooter
11-10-2012, 19:08
All my had tools are Snap On I bought over 20 years ago. Going strong. Some of the newer non Snap On stuff I've gotten the last couple years just don't show the quality of the Snap On (and the price!).

DairyFresh
11-10-2012, 20:00
I used to be a MAC distributor, and their parent company is Stanleyworks (Stanley), and they just built a huge new production facility in Dallas Texas. Stanley also owns Dewalt/black and decker, and about 35 other tool companies. Some are made in Chiner, some are made here. The ones made here, while very nice, are expensive.

samuse
11-10-2012, 21:33
This is why all of my lineman tools are Klein and most of my hand tools are Snap On and Mac.

Bam. Right answer. I like Matco too.

I've been around Craftsman tools for about 15 years (since I was a kid) and I've always thought they were junk.

ILannoyed
11-10-2012, 21:35
Apextoolgroup makes many of the popular brands out there. Including craftsman, gearwrench, and crescent. There is nothing wrong with Chinese quality. They build the stuff to the specs given to them by their customers. We, as consumers, demand cheap crap so that's what we get.


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Truth. It begins and ends with the consumer. People can point the finger at whatever boogeyman, Robber Barron , or circumstance beyond their control they choose, but the bottom line is that the American consumer has settled for garbage quality in exchange for cheap prices. This applies to all manner of consumer goods, not just tools.

sombunya
11-10-2012, 22:52
As stated above. It doesn't matter if the tool is made in Beijing, Dusseldorf, Detroit or Ottawa. If its an American owned company of any reputation the tool is made to specs of materials and quality as set forth by the design. It also has to meet umpteen hundreds of standards just to be imported. If you pay for cheap Chinese you get cheap Chinese. If you pay for quality Chinese you get quality Chinese.



/I could pretty much agree with this excepting Swiss watches. Certain Nikon producs are made in China in Nikon factories. If there were any Q.C. issues Nikon would be taking a bath on warranty claims. They are not.

Same with Alpine audio, built in Alpine factories in China. While not be the top-of-the-line, it is decent stuff.

427
11-10-2012, 23:31
As stated above. It doesn't matter if the tool is made in Beijing, Dusseldorf, Detroit or Ottawa. If its an American owned company of any reputation the tool is made to specs of materials and quality as set forth by the design. It also has to meet umpteen hundreds of standards just to be imported. If you pay for cheap Chinese you get cheap Chinese. If you pay for quality Chinese you get quality Chinese.



/

I disagree. I was in the autoglass business. There is a huge difference between glass made by different manufacturers even though they have to meet the same spec.
The company I used to work for was fortune 500 company. When they got bought out the new owners closed a bunch of stateside manufacturing plants and moved them to china.

The chinese stuff we were getting was out of bend, had distortions and had lamination problems. It was simply out of spec and there was no QC. Also the glass was coming in damaged with clams, rubs and had a film on them that was a pain to get off. Our customers were not happy.

This is at the warehouse/distribution level.

TK-421
11-10-2012, 23:36
I disagree. I was in the autoglass business. There is a huge difference between glass made by different manufacturers even though they have to meet the same spec.
The company I used to work for was fortune 500 company. When they got bought out the new owners closed a bunch of stateside manufacturing plants and moved them to china.

The chinese stuff we were getting was out of bend, had distortions and had lamination problems. It was simply out of spec and there was no QC. Also the glass was coming in damaged with clams, rubs and had a film on them that was a pain to get off. Our customers were not happy.

This is at the warehouse/distribution level.

When they sold out they probably went with the cheap chinese, instead of the quality chinese.

427
11-10-2012, 23:39
When they sold out they probably went with the cheap chinese, instead of the quality chinese.

I've yet to see "quality" chinese glass. The glass made in mexico is of better quality!

Bucknasty
11-10-2012, 23:44
These are the same people buying Chinese cars and loving them.


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HollowHead
11-10-2012, 23:46
Americans want the cheapest possible goods, and if US companies have to go offshore to do so...good for them for following the capitalist tradition. It starts and ends with the consumer. HH

*ASH*
11-11-2012, 00:38
Yes, but do their pliers rust?

yes yes they do :rofl:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e332/KK_Koala/28jz43p.jpg







and speaking of Kobalt i got bought a complete set just before they went chinese , glad i did . says made in USA :supergrin:

Adjuster
11-11-2012, 08:01
These are the same people buying Chinese cars and loving them.


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Chinese cars?




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failsafe
11-11-2012, 08:34
Seems to me I remember that Craftsman ratchets when broken are replaced with rebuilt ones...Anyone have this happen to them??

Averageman
11-11-2012, 09:00
Seems to me I remember that Craftsman ratchets when broken are replaced with rebuilt ones...Anyone have this happen to them??
Yeah I have walked in and watched a young man rebuilding them on the spot.
I'm not sure about the recent quality of Craftsman tools, but as I said I bought most of mine years ago, some have even gone through three generations of use in my Family and they seem to be holding up just fine.
As far as some magic pliers thing, I probobly wouldn't buy it anyway. I feel bad for the guy, but really; it wasn't a tool I would own on a bet.
Most of the tools I have purchased are pretty standard things, conventional Sockets, Wrenches. Ratchets etc. For the most part my Craftsmen have held up fine, even under high stress all day profesional use.
With the cash in hand I will buy my specialty tools from Mac or Snap On. These tools that are unique like an adjustable crowsfoot, allen head sockets in 1/4 inch drive, or an extra long extention in the 36 inch range.
You see if you spend your money on tools use them for what they are intended to be used for, if you need a specialty tool, then buy it from a top notch builder of tools and it will hold up and do the job.
Please dont buy a made in China adjustable miracle wrench and expect to hand it down to you kids, or be disappointed when you smash your hand and end up with a nasty cut because it gave up under pressure.
Should we hate cheap tools or hate it that we have a generation of young men in this country that dont know the difference between a screwdriver and a socket?