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bigmoney890
11-11-2012, 16:37
Just got home from work and found my CMT full-auto BCG waiting on me. Looks to be good quality. The staking leaves a little to be desired. And in spite of the email from the company, it is MP marked. I'll have a range report next weekend :supergrin:

http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv237/bigmoney890/2012-11-11165415.jpg
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv237/bigmoney890/2012-11-11165602.jpg
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv237/bigmoney890/2012-11-11165715.jpg

WoodenPlank
11-11-2012, 16:40
Definitely a bit weak on the staking.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

bigmoney890
11-11-2012, 16:41
Can I get that properly staked or is it done for?

Sporaticus
11-11-2012, 17:33
Can I get that properly staked or is it done for?

I ran AR-15's for decades before staking ever became an issue. I know others who have done the same. The myth about the gas key coming loose is just that, myth. Unless you break the seal and loosen it, and reseat it, it will be fine. Or, you could use a hammer and nail set or chisel to enhance what you have.

Just stay away from N Dallas and you'll be fine.

USMCsilver
11-11-2012, 17:41
I ran AR-15's for decades before staking ever became an issue. I know others who have done the same.

Agreed.

You could go and booger it up so badly that it'd be considered "staked" (or better yet, simply locked in place).

Run it and keep an eye on it. I still doubt that you'll see any problems outta it. :wavey:

mvician
11-11-2012, 17:47
The myth about the gas key coming loose is just that, myth.



Myth huh?

Matthew Courtney
11-11-2012, 17:54
Gas keys coming loose are a low frequency event, but it happens and when it does is usually mucks things up pretty good. More than anything, poor staking is a glaring sign of poor quality control that we can easily see. If poor staking was missed by the qc guy, what else got missed that we cannot see?

WoodenPlank
11-11-2012, 18:16
Can I get that properly staked or is it done for?

Two words: CALL. JOHN.

Gas keys coming loose are a low frequency event, but it happens and when it does is usually mucks things up pretty good. More than anything, poor staking is a glaring sign of poor quality control that we can easily see. If poor staking was missed by the qc guy, what else got missed that we cannot see?

Exactly. Staking should just be an insurance policy on a quality bolt, as it would be properly torqued with the right fasteners to begin with. However, in the event that it wasn't done exactly to spec, that staking can (potentially) be the only thing that keeps your gun from going TU.

Cole125
11-11-2012, 18:17
Don't worry about it. Run it and if the gas key comes loose deal with the problem then.

Should be fine.

faawrenchbndr
11-11-2012, 18:28
While it's not a perfect job, there is more than enough material
displaced. Lube it up and shoot the darn thing! :cool:

mjkeat
11-11-2012, 18:32
Myth huh?

Mike, this is the same guy that was talking about different barrel types for a guys lower receiver.

faawrenchbndr
11-11-2012, 18:34
Mike, this is the same guy that was talking about different barrel types for a guys lower receiver.


That post had Pepsi shooting out my nose,........:rofl:

Sporaticus
11-11-2012, 18:58
Myth huh?

That was a nice way of saying 'stupid BS internet liars spew'.

I had ~15k rounds through my first AR and another 9k through my second before this term started floating around the internet.

I started asking people at my club about it, and I couldn't find anyone who had problems from "improper staking" or even knew WTF it was. These are people I know shoot a lot, because they keep me in brass.

If you think about it, when did the term start floating? About the time "The Chart" popped up on M4Carbine.net.

"Real world shooters" as Bren would say, that I KNOW shoot the snot out of rifles, never had any problems with the gas key. Internet know-it-alls desperately seeking validation seem to have all kinds of problems with it.

When I hear some twit on the internet using "proper staking" as validation for spending twice as much for a rifle, and nobody I know has even heard of it...... I tend to believe the people I actually see shooting.

It's just one of those items "The Chart" lists as being on "top tier" rifles, and a subject the kids use for validation.

Now if someone takes their gas key off, I can see where they would want to stake it. I don't break mine down that far. Otherwise, I don't know any mature shooter off the internet who is even interested in the subject.

And oddly enough, my BCM isn't much better staked than the OP's CMT. If I was one of the internet know-it-alls seeking validation, the staking job on my BCM wouldn't be good enough. Hell, I had to look twice. I would have thought it was much more heavily staked than it is. That also makes me think it's an overblown issue.

faawrenchbndr
11-11-2012, 19:08
Dude you have no clue,...........been shooting the platform
for 27 years. Seen it many times, but on hard use military
weapons, not range plinkers. Get an idea who you are talking
to before you start spewing BS you pulled out of your arse! :wavey:

Sporaticus
11-11-2012, 19:13
Dude you have no clue,...........been shooting the platform
for 27 years. Seen it many times, but on hard use military
weapons, not range plinkers. Get an idea who you are talking
to before you start spewing BS you pulled out of your arse! :wavey:


I don't believe it.

ETA: maybe so on military weapons where the armorers break them down completely. And maybe even with plinkers people take the gas key off of.

Other than those times that are caused, it's BS. ETA again: It's lying, stupid BS.

bmoore
11-11-2012, 19:27
I ran AR-15's for decades before staking ever became an issue. I know others who have done the same. The myth about the gas key coming loose is just that, myth. Unless you break the seal and loosen it, and reseat it, it will be fine. Or, you could use a hammer and nail set or chisel to enhance what you have.

Just stay away from N Dallas and you'll be fine.

Giving out horrible advice since 2003. Yikes

faawrenchbndr
11-11-2012, 19:28
I don't believe it.

ETA: maybe so on military weapons where the armorers break them down completely. And maybe even with plinkers people take the gas key off of.

Other than those times that are caused, it's BS. ETA again: It's lying, stupid BS.

I could care less what you believe......keep talkin out your ***,
it's rather intertaining. Except when Pepsi shoots out my nose.
Why don't you just crawl back under your bridge. :wavey:

bmoore
11-11-2012, 19:30
I could care less what you believe......keep talkin out your ***,
it's rather intertaining. Except when Pepsi shoots out my nose.
Why don't you just crawl back under your bridge. :wavey:

+1. Bounce that guy and his BS.

Sporaticus
11-11-2012, 19:30
I could care less what you believe......keep talkin out your ***,
it's rather intertaining. Except when Pepsi shoots out my nose.
Why don't you just crawl back under your bridge. :wavey:

You don't like being wrong, or exposed as a liar, do you?

I say again: for the everyday shooter, staking is NOT a problem.

Sporaticus
11-11-2012, 19:44
Giving out horrible advice since 2003. Yikes

I don't give advice. I just provide feedback from experience. I don't "recommend" anything to anyone, like some of the self proclaimed gurus here, because I don't consider myself an expert. Nor do I need to be seen as an expert. But I do have years of experience and thousands of rounds behind me.

When liars make up BS in order to feel like a guru, I merely express an differing opinion based on my experience. And I don't see that as advice. If someone wants to buy a brand I don't like, or that I don't own, it doesn't bother me. I'm just glad they are buying. Welcome aboard.......

Maybe I've misjudged some of these internet know-it-alls. Maybe it's not validation in their brand loyalty they seek, as much as "guru" status. Maybe they have a need to feel important, and changing\guiding the purchases of others makes them feel important.

Maybe they spew stupid BS from the chart, because they think it makes them appear knowledgeable, instead of just trying to make people buy the brand of rifle they own. Definitely something for me to consider.

Until I run across someone in the real world who actually has had gas key issues due to improper staking, it's still a big fat lie, told by liars on the internet who are seeking validation and\or guru status.

I do not seek guru status. If people want to buy a Stag\Bushmaster\RRA, I say 'I hope you get years of enjoyment out of it', which is the difference between me, and some of these guru wannabes.

And yes, I've been drinking.

bmoore
11-11-2012, 20:00
Until I run across someone in the real world who actually has had gas key issues due to improper staking, it's still a big fat lie, told by liars on the internet who are seeking validation and\or guru status.


And yes, I've been drinking.



You ever ran into someone in the real world who landed on moon? What about drove an F1 car? Are they liars? Do you have to come in contact with things to believe it can happen?

We can tell you have been drinking. Its either that or you have serious learning comprehension issues.

bigmoney890
11-11-2012, 20:02
So this thread was made for anyone that's interested in possibly getting a CMT BCG, not a pissing contest guys :rofl:

To stake or not to stake should be continued in another thread, I don't want this one locked

mvician
11-11-2012, 20:10
Can I get that properly staked or is it done for?

Yes it can be re-staked.

You can do it yourself or I have a Pocket MOACKS tool if you want to send it to me with return postage.

Or you can just shoot it until you have a problem.

mvician
11-11-2012, 20:14
Not my video, but here is a video on staking with the Pocket MOACKS

http://youtu.be/2tYWjQPbwS0

Sporaticus
11-11-2012, 20:15
You ever ran into someone in the real world who landed on moon? What about drove an F1 car? Are they liars? Do you have to come in contact with things to believe it can happen?

I don't mean to threaten your "guru" status. :bowdown: You know more than I ever will, Yoda. There is nobody on Earth as great as you, mjkeat, or the others.... We are all in awe, of your awesomeness... Yoda. When I look up "AR guru", there is a reference to you, mjkeat, and the other gurus. You guys are the greatest. NOBODY knows as much as you.

All I am saying is that aside from the internet, I haven't heard of this gas key staking issue, Yoda.

You are still the guru of all gurus, Yoda. People eagerly hang on your every word because you are recognized as the most knowledgeable person in the world, and the internet, Yoda. You are EVERY bit as great as you think you are Yoda, and that is pretty damned great.

BUT, as for me, I will follow the experience of those I know outside of the internet. And that is just me. I'm sure the rest of Glock Talk and the internet are hanging on your every word, Yoda. They spend a lot of time and money, seeking your knowledge, input, and "advice" relating to AR's, Yoda. I mean, YOU, ARE THE MAN, and I can never compare, Yoda.

But until I actually know someone who has had a gas key issue, I chose to go in the other direction, Yoda. Not to take away from your status as "master of the AR knowledge", Yoda.....

Sporaticus
11-11-2012, 20:27
Giving out horrible advice since 2003. Yikes

I really appreciate this post. I thought we were all just gun owners discussing our experiences and what we've seen from this or that firearm. I always thought the fan boys just needed the validation of others buying the same gear they use. But now I see a different perspective.

The fan boys don't need people to buy their equipment, they need to be seen as giving advice, and they need to feel that their advice has enough credibility to influence the purchases and decisions of others. They want to be a board "guru".

Now I better understand why that other member was miffed because he tried to "educate" another member, but his "advice" to buy a different brand was not followed. He wasn't miffed because the guy bought the Rock River rifle he advised not to, but because his "advice" didn't carry enough weight to influence the purchase decision of someone else. IOW, his "guru" status wasn't validated by the poster refusing to buy the RR and opting to buy what was recommended by the "guru".

I really appreciate that. I think I have a better understanding of the psyche of the wannabe guru. It's not about being a fan boy, but being a guru, and being respected by the rest of the membership, and having your opinions sought before purchases.

As for me, I don't care what other people buy. I just wish them luck and hope they have fun. But I don't seek guru status.

faawrenchbndr
11-11-2012, 20:29
So this thread was made for anyone that's interested in possibly getting a CMT BCG, not a pissing contest guys :rofl:

To stake or not to stake should be continued in another thread, I don't want this one locked

Sorry to piss in your thread,....just can't let that BS go unchecked.

Sporaticus
11-11-2012, 20:35
So this thread was made for anyone that's interested in possibly getting a CMT BCG, not a pissing contest guys :rofl:

Who's pissing? I'm learning about the guru psyche. Hell, you got your answers.

Let us know how it works, AS IS.

I didn't realize County Music Television had a BCG.

ddbtoth
11-11-2012, 20:44
Just got home from work and found my CMT full-auto BCG waiting on me. Looks to be good quality. The staking leaves a little to be desired. And in spite of the email from the company, it is MP marked. I'll have a range report next weekend :supergrin:


Go shoot it--I'm sure it will provide much less drama than this thread does.

bigmoney890
11-11-2012, 22:47
Go shoot it--I'm sure it will provide much less drama than this thread does.

It wasnt even a concern, I dunno why this thread turned into a staking argument.

Rooster Rugburn
11-12-2012, 09:19
If you think about it, when did the term start floating? About the time "The Chart" popped up on M4Carbine.net.

That is a good point. I'd never heard of it before either, and when I did, I quickly bought the MOACKS II tool, thinking for myself, and my shooting buds. And nobody else even bothered to use it, or was interested in using it. And to this day, none of them have had gas key issues. Go figure.

Matthew Courtney
11-12-2012, 09:45
I don't mean to threaten your "guru" status. :bowdown: You know more than I ever will, Yoda. There is nobody on Earth as great as you, mjkeat, or the others.... We are all in awe, of your awesomeness... Yoda. When I look up "AR guru", there is a reference to you, mjkeat, and the other gurus. You guys are the greatest. NOBODY knows as much as you.

All I am saying is that aside from the internet, I haven't heard of this gas key staking issue, Yoda.

You are still the guru of all gurus, Yoda. People eagerly hang on your every word because you are recognized as the most knowledgeable person in the world, and the internet, Yoda. You are EVERY bit as great as you think you are Yoda, and that is pretty damned great.

BUT, as for me, I will follow the experience of those I know outside of the internet. And that is just me. I'm sure the rest of Glock Talk and the internet are hanging on your every word, Yoda. They spend a lot of time and money, seeking your knowledge, input, and "advice" relating to AR's, Yoda. I mean, YOU, ARE THE MAN, and I can never compare, Yoda.

But until I actually know someone who has had a gas key issue, I chose to go in the other direction, Yoda. Not to take away from your status as "master of the AR knowledge", Yoda.....

3 gun matches and other high round count events such a carbine courses are really the only environments where one would likely see a gas key issue that good staking would likely have prevented. As I mentioned earlier, they really are rather rare.

What makes those rare occurances so ominous is that once the bolt backs out a little, the bolt tends to break level with the top of the carrier. Getting the threaded part of the bolt out of the carrier to do a repair usually requires tools not commonly brought to the range. That is not a big deal if you are plinking at your local club. It is a big deal if you have spent many hundreds of dollars preparing for and traveling to a match or class and for want of a 2 minute preventative measure, your rifle becomes an overpriced stick.

K. Foster
11-12-2012, 11:16
Can I get that properly staked or is it done for?

Wrap cloth or tape around the jaws of a vise to provide padding. Clamp in the bolt carrier and make sure the bolts are tight. Tap the indentations with a hammer and punch until some metal is pushed against the bolts. Should take about 10 minutes.

K. Foster
11-12-2012, 11:27
Gas keys coming loose are a low frequency event, but it happens and when it does is usually mucks things up pretty good. More than anything, poor staking is a glaring sign of poor quality control that we can easily see. If poor staking was missed by the qc guy, what else got missed that we cannot see?

Since a few companies let 90% to 100% of their BCGs go out the door with insufficient staking, it isnt so much missed by qc as it is a failure to assemble the product correctly to begin with. I agree with the rest of your post though.

mjkeat
11-12-2012, 11:47
Since a few companies let 90% to 100% of their BCGs go out the door with insufficient staking, it isnt so much missed by qc as it is a failure to assemble the product correctly to begin with. I agree with the rest of your post though.

Wouldn't both be equally responsible as the both did their job equally wrong?

_______________

My buddies didn't stake their keys and haven't had a single issue throughout all 500 rounds they've fired since the "Chart" was released. Therefore, staking is a waste of time.

Mayhem like Me
11-12-2012, 12:03
You don't like being wrong, or exposed as a liar, do you?

I say again: for the everyday shooter, staking is NOT a problem.

I have beaten open TWO bushmaster carbines with round counts under 1500 in the same class BOTH had gas keys that were improperly staked AND had gas key bolts with undersized heads...

keep talking out you ***....It is a problem .

K. Foster
11-12-2012, 14:58
Wouldn't both be equally responsible as the both did their job equally wrong?




As I see it, QC inspects to insure the standards of the company are being adhered to. This has been an ongoing problem with certain companies for a long time. If the company wanted better staking, the percentage of BCG coming out with improper staking would be lower than it is (if it were just QC) because if company management was displeased, there would be personnel changes in QC and the problem would have been resolved. Keep in mind, Im referring to companies that have a reputation for bad staking, not the one bad apple that slips by.:supergrin:

mjkeat
11-12-2012, 15:45
Just a guess, the companies that have consistent quality are checking the parts they receive from their suppliers and the parts they ship to their customers. I'm willing to bet if they receive poor quality they send it back to the supplier or find another source.

Wouldn't it be nice if they all did it? But that would cost due to added man hours. Why make the investment when we'll gamble on the fact that only 1% shoot enough to expose issues?