Should I seperate my seating and crimping? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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SC_Dave
11-11-2012, 22:08
I am loading 9mm on a LnL AP. Should I seperate the seating and crimping step which is done with one die now? As you know the press has 5 stations and I will be using a LOD so this means I will have to get the PTX expander I believe. If I seperate the seat and crimp step would it be better to get a seat die and a crimp die or can I use the combination die I have now to crimp only by backing off the seating stem and purchase only a seat die.

Hope this make sense.
David

Taterhead
11-11-2012, 22:34
You did not mention your bullet type(s). If loading with soft plated bullets like Rainier or Berry's, separate steps for seating and crimping in separate steps is essential. Bullets with traditional jackets work fine with seating and crimping in one step -- as long as you do not put too much of an aggressive taper.

I have little experience loading cast bullets so others on the page would have a more informed opinion about that than I would.

You can use the die that you have now for seating or crimping and purchase another die for the other step should you decide to go with separate steps.

Colorado4Wheel
11-11-2012, 23:23
Whatever you decide.....get the crimp die I stead of two seating dies.

F106 Fan
11-11-2012, 23:30
I highly recommend a separate taper crimp die.

Richard

unclebob
11-11-2012, 23:37
Whatever you decide.....get the crimp die I stead of two seating dies.

:agree:

fredj338
11-12-2012, 02:14
I like to seat & crimp in separate steps. Mostly because I shoot lead & trying to go all at once can cause shaving, but also hepful for soft plated bullets as well. SInce I do most of my handgun loading on a progressive, it's just adding another die. Simply adding another seating diw with the stem removed is fine. The LFCD should be avoided IMO, just a poor tool for the job.

Three-Five-Seven
11-12-2012, 09:17
I am loading 9mm on a LnL AP. Should I seperate the seating and crimping step which is done with one die now? As you know the press has 5 stations and I will be using a LOD so this means I will have to get the PTX expander I believe. If I seperate the seat and crimp step would it be better to get a seat die and a crimp die or can I use the combination die I have now to crimp only by backing off the seating stem and purchase only a seat die.

Hope this make sense.
David

I've found it depends on:

1. The type of bullet one is using

2. The thickness of the brass one is using

3. The qualities of the seating/crimping die one is using

So, my answer is "maybe"

SC_Dave
11-12-2012, 12:22
Thanks guys, I will be using FMJ bullets so maybe my combination die will be ok?

F106 Fan
11-12-2012, 14:41
Thanks guys, I will be using FMJ bullets so maybe my combination die will be ok?

The fact that you CAN use a combination die is not a good reason for doing so.

Life is much simpler when you have a separate taper crimp die. Among other things, you can adjust the crimp without upsetting the OAL.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=lee+taper+crimp+die

They're only about $12

There's a reason the taper crimp die was invented. It probably came about because it improved the process. If it didn't improve the process, no cheap reloaders would have ever bought one. Yet nearly every reloader with a progressive press is using a taper crimp die.

Richard

Agent6-3/8
11-12-2012, 14:52
I load on a single stage press and use Lee carbide dies for all if my pistol loading. I seat and crimp in one step. I've loaded thousands of rounds in a variety of calibers with a variety of bullets and have never had a problem. My handloads function as expected and shoot where I aim them. For me, I don't see the point in adding another step to the process.

YMMV


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F106 Fan
11-12-2012, 17:26
I load on a single stage press and use Lee carbide dies for all if my pistol loading. I seat and crimp in one step. I've loaded thousands of rounds in a variety of calibers with a variety of bullets and have never had a problem. My handloads function as expected and shoot where I aim them. For me, I don't see the point in adding another step to the process.

YMMV


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If I was loading on a single stage press, neither would I. However, the OP is setting up a progressive press and has a station for taper crimp. It's simply a matter of buying the die.

Richard

smokin762
11-12-2012, 17:55
The fact that you CAN use a combination die is not a good reason for doing so.

Life is much simply when you have a separate taper crimp die. Among other things, you can adjust the crimp without upsetting the OAL.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=lee+taper+crimp+die

They're only about $12

There's a reason the taper crimp die was invented. It probably came about because it improved the process. If it didn't improve the process, no cheap reloaders would have ever bought one. Yet nearly every reloader with a progressive press is using a taper crimp die.

Richard

I don’t mean to hijack the thread.

I am new to reloading. I have a Dillon 650 Press. I replaced my Crimp Die with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. I was told it would be better.

Which Die should I be using for .45 ACP, a Factory Crimp Die or a Taper Crimp Die? Or is this just a preference thing? So far, I haven’t had any issues. :dunno:

I plan on reloading, FMJ, HP, Copper Plated Lead and Lead bullets.

F106 Fan
11-12-2012, 18:06
I don’t mean to hijack the thread.

I am new to reloading. I have a Dillon 650 Press. I replaced my Crimp Die with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. I was told it would be better.

Which Die should I be using for .45 ACP, a Factory Crimp Die or a Taper Crimp Die? Or is this just a preference thing? So far, I haven’t had any issues. :dunno:

I plan on reloading, FMJ, HP, Copper Plated Lead and Lead bullets.

Around here there is no love for the pistol version of the Lee FCD. I would highly recommend a taper crimp die. Of course, I would also recommend Dillon dies but, frankly, the Lee Taper Crimp Die should work just as well. And it's a lot cheaper.

The Lee FCD does get some respect for crimping rifle loads. I use one on .223 for my AR-15 and it works quite well. But the rifle die is a whole different animal than the pistol die.

Richard

smokin762
11-12-2012, 18:12
Around here there is no love for the pistol version of the Lee FCD. I would highly recommend a taper crimp die. Of course, I would also recommend Dillon dies but, frankly, the Lee Taper Crimp Die should work just as well. And it's a lot cheaper.

The Lee FCD does get some respect for crimping rifle loads. I use one on .223 for my AR-15 and it works quite well. But the rifle die is a whole different animal than the pistol die.

Richard

Is there something I should watch for with the FCD for pistol? I am too new to understand what the problem is.

countrygun
11-12-2012, 18:21
IME I like the FCD for revolver loads that may be used ina variety of guns, but for autos a seperate TCD is the way to go. It is easier to get consistent headspacing that way. JMOYMMV

F106 Fan
11-12-2012, 18:26
Is there something I should watch for with the FCD for pistol? I am too new to understand what the problem is.

The FCD attempts to resize a loaded round after it has been assembled. Among other things, this can resize the bullet diameter and that won't improve its seal with the barrel.

It can also cause a loss of neck tension which isn't usually a good thing. Bullet setback is one possibility.

For those of us who use lead bullets, we know the bullet is 0.001" oversized. We paid extra for that! The larger diameter is necessary for getting a seal against the barrel. The last thing we want is to resize the loaded round.

Everybody must make their own decisions about this reloading thing. I see no reason to change my process; my loads have been working fine since the early '80s.

Richard

smokin762
11-12-2012, 18:52
The FCD attempts to resize a loaded round after it has been assembled. Among other things, this can resize the bullet diameter and that won't improve its seal with the barrel.

It can also cause a loss of neck tension which isn't usually a good thing. Bullet setback is one possibility.

For those of us who use lead bullets, we know the bullet is 0.001" oversized. We paid extra for that! The larger diameter is necessary for getting a seal against the barrel. The last thing we want is to resize the loaded round.

Everybody must make their own decisions about this reloading thing. I see no reason to change my process; my loads have been working fine since the early '80s.

Richard

Thank you for the information. :wavey:

Since I am new and need plenty of practice, I have been measuring the heck out of every loaded round.

Iíll keep an eye out for this to make sure everything is okay. If I start to have problems, Iíll replace it with the original Die that I bought from Dillon when I bought the Press.

F106 Fan
11-12-2012, 18:58
Since I am new and need plenty of practice, I have been measuring the heck out of every loaded round.



A case gauge and a pair of calipers is all that is needed. Some people like to check the loaded rounds in the chamber of their gun but if you have several guns of the same caliber, which one do you use?

If I was going to a match, I would have already checked samples with a case gauge but I too would run every round into the chamber of the gun I was going to use.

Richard

shotgunred
11-12-2012, 20:45
If jack were still posting he probably tell you how he has been doing both with the same die for the last fifty years. I have used one die and two dies. I personally prefer two dies. But really you can do it any way you want. It is just a little bit easier to set up using two dies.

GUNS N' HOGS
11-12-2012, 20:47
I donít mean to hijack the thread.

I am new to reloading. I have a Dillon 650 Press. I replaced my Crimp Die with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. I was told it would be better.

Which Die should I be using for .45 ACP, a Factory Crimp Die or a Taper Crimp Die? Or is this just a preference thing? So far, I havenít had any issues. :dunno:

I plan on reloading, FMJ, HP, Copper Plated Lead and Lead bullets.

IMO, using a seperate die for seating and crimping has always produced more consistancy in COL with the XL650. My Son and I are currently using the Redding Competition Seating die along with the Dillon taper crimp for all competition/practice loads.

This combo has also produced excellent crimping since we definitely don't want any bullet setback while using N320 and Titegroup powders.

You'll love the XL650 once you learn all it features and specific settings. Excellent machine!

:cheers:

smokin762
11-13-2012, 18:58
IMO, using a seperate die for seating and crimping has always produced more consistancy in COL with the XL650. My Son and I are currently using the Redding Competition Seating die along with the Dillon taper crimp for all competition/practice loads.

This combo has also produced excellent crimping since we definitely don't want any bullet setback while using N320 and Titegroup powders.

You'll love the XL650 once you learn all it features and specific settings. Excellent machine!

:cheers:

I like my 650 more and more after every trip to the range. It makes me shoot more.

Until I got used to seating the Primers, I was making one heck of a mess with the powder coming out of the Primer Pockets. I think I have that one down pat now. No more wasting Powder. But I did get plenty of practice removing and installing the Shell Plate Holder for cleaning. :embarassed:

Right now, I have caliber Conversions for .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 9mm and .38 Special. I started with .45 ACP first. I also need to pick up two more caliber conversions for .308 and .223 so I can start reloading for rifle.

GUNS N' HOGS
11-13-2012, 20:27
I like my 650 more and more after every trip to the range. It makes me shoot more.

Until I got used to seating the Primers, I was making one heck of a mess with the powder coming out of the Primer Pockets. I think I have that one down pat now. No more wasting Powder. But I did get plenty of practice removing and installing the Shell Plate Holder for cleaning. :embarassed:

Right now, I have caliber Conversions for .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 9mm and .38 Special. I started with .45 ACP first. I also need to pick up two more caliber conversions for .308 and .223 so I can start reloading for rifle.

Since you mentioned your experiences with primers, I think most beginners that start with the XL650 go through the same learning curve of spilling powder, etc! ;) I will say that once we tried the Federal Match primers, it has been our experience that these are the "smoothest" installing primers we've ever tried on the 650! Yes a bit more expensive, but IMO well worth it.

Also, if you'll be reloading 40 S&W brass shot out of stock Glock barrels, then consider full length resizing with a Redding GR-X carbide setup. Before attending a recent match, I had ample time to case gauge 600 rounds for our glocks; and not a single reject do to gauge failure. So, I highly recommend the GR-X unit.

Sounds like your on your way to some serious loading with a host of great calibers. I'm sure the XL650 will not disappoint you!

:cheers:

unclebob
11-13-2012, 21:30
Also, if you'll be reloading 40 S&W brass shot out of stock Glock barrels, then consider full length resizing with a Redding GR-X carbide setup.

You can do the same thing by using a properly adjusted Lee sizer die. Instead of the Dillon sizer.

smokin762
11-14-2012, 16:52
Since you mentioned your experiences with primers, I think most beginners that start with the XL650 go through the same learning curve of spilling powder, etc! ;) I will say that once we tried the Federal Match primers, it has been our experience that these are the "smoothest" installing primers we've ever tried on the 650! Yes a bit more expensive, but IMO well worth it.

Also, if you'll be reloading 40 S&W brass shot out of stock Glock barrels, then consider full length resizing with a Redding GR-X carbide setup. Before attending a recent match, I had ample time to case gauge 600 rounds for our glocks; and not a single reject do to gauge failure. So, I highly recommend the GR-X unit.

Sounds like your on your way to some serious loading with a host of great calibers. I'm sure the XL650 will not disappoint you!

:cheers:

I have KKM barrels in all my Glocks. They are supposed to have a supported chamber from what I have read. After firing my G23, the brass looks good. Not deformed at all. :dunno:

I just wish KKM made a barrel for my G36. :crying:

GUNS N' HOGS
11-14-2012, 17:01
You can do the same thing by using a properly adjusted Lee sizer die. Instead of the Dillon sizer.

While we haven't tried the Lee sizer, we did try an EGW Undersize die that was properly adjusted.....and it still didn't produce that entire resized case as the GR-X has.....

:dunno:

unclebob
11-14-2012, 17:10
While we haven't tried the Lee sizer, we did try an EGW Undersize die that was properly adjusted.....and it still didn't produce that entire resized case as the GR-X has.....

:dunno:

The EGW undersize die is the same thing as a Lee standard die. It just sizes the case .001 smaller.

GUNS N' HOGS
11-14-2012, 17:16
I have KKM barrels in all my Glocks. They are supposed to have a supported chamber from what I have read. After firing my G23, the brass looks good. Not deformed at all. :dunno:

I just wish KKM made a barrel for my G36. :crying:

My Son has a couple of his Glocks fitted with the KKMs, and I have to say they're an excellent product! I feel confident the stock Dillon dies will provide satisfactory ammo for your particular guns.

We primarily started using the GR-X since we both are still using stock barrels in a couple of .40 pistols; and my G35 is dedicated to GSSF stock/competiton........for now..... ;)

Good luck with your XL650; and remember there's a ton of reloading info on the web for this particular press! If you become serious with your COL, always remember to have the shell plate loaded with brass at all stations while making your final bullet seating depth adjustments.

:cheers:

GUNS N' HOGS
11-14-2012, 17:18
The EGW undersize die is the same thing as a Lee standard die. It just sizes the case .001 smaller.

Yes, I'm well aware of that.....

:)