17 vs 38 Side by side! [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : 17 vs 38 Side by side!


ADK_40GLKr
11-12-2012, 14:53
Granted, I'm new to the 38, but took both the 17 and 38 to the range today and shot 'em side by side.

Not a lot of noticeable difference TO ME, but then I'm not particularly sensitive to recoil. The 38 might have had a slightly stronger "buck" when I pulled the trigger.

Was shooting WWB in the 17, and it felt pretty mild.

The 38 held mostly my weak reloads, one so weak it failed to extract even. And it seemed pretty mild as well.

I paced off about 12 yards and set up these two side by side 8" circles. The difference in accuracy could have something to do with shooting 3 different batches of .45 GAP ammo, or it might have been due to my newness with the pistol and anticipating stronger recoil.

Anyway, I am also anticipating becoming more accurate with my new 45GAP and in building more consistent loads.

More to follow....

Bruce M
11-12-2012, 14:57
Sounds like you had a good time.

ADK_40GLKr
11-12-2012, 15:02
Sounds like you had a good time.

I DID-I DID! :cool:

It's just that I spend an hour loading 'em up, and in 5 minutes they're all gone!!!!

SARDG
11-12-2012, 16:19
[B]...It's just that I spend an hour loading 'em up, and in 5 minutes they're all gone!!!!
To paraphrase Tommy Lee, 'Get yourself a Dillon and lose that red-painted sissy loader.' :whistling:

jeremy1
11-12-2012, 18:41
Good shooting and good combination. I love the GAP pistols! I think you will find that the accuracy will improve when you get used to it and get a good load. My 37 is the most accurate Glock I have shot.

ADK_40GLKr
11-13-2012, 06:10
Good shooting and good combination. I love the GAP pistols! I think you will find that the accuracy will improve when you get used to it and get a good load. My 37 is the most accurate Glock I have shot.

G17, ,G19, G22 Gen 4, G26, G37 and lots of other Non Glocks

Thanks, Jeremy!

ADK_40GLKr
11-13-2012, 06:21
To paraphrase Tommy Lee, 'Get yourself a Dillon and lose that red-painted sissy loader.' :whistling:



HI, SARDGE!

Yeah, but I can't afford a new G38 barrel every week!

:drillsgt: As my State Guard Sergeant used to say: "Don't call me SIR, I WORK for a living!"

ron59
11-13-2012, 08:40
I DID-I DID! :cool:

It's just that I spend an hour loading 'em up, and in 5 minutes they're all gone!!!!

While I'm sure the GAP is a good defensive type pistol.... for cost purposes you should be shooting the G17 more. 9mm is WAY cheaper to reload than .45 anything. Bullets are cheaper, less powder, etc.

And if you weren't using a single stage machine.... it wouldn't take you so long to load rounds. I can load 100 rounds in 6-7 minutes on my 650. It was ~10 on my 550. (Note, those times are simply "at the press" times, with primers already picked up and ready to go.)

CDW4ME
11-13-2012, 19:18
I use a single stage press, even though I have a progressive.
I seat and inspect each primer one at a time.
I charge and inspect each case with powder, one at a time.
I seat each bullet, one at a time.
I obsessively :cool: check each rounds O.A.L (+-.002 is acceptable)
Finally, I Taper crip.
Takes me about 1 hour :yawn: per 50 rounds.

I TRUST my ammo.

quality > quantity

Oh yea, I like the Glock 38 :thumbsup:

SARDG
11-13-2012, 19:59
I use a single stage press, even though I have a progressive...

Takes me about 1 hour :yawn: per 50 rounds.

I TRUST my ammo.

quality > quantity
I trust my pistol match ammo too - which is all I load for. But I load a heck of a lot more of it in an hour on my 650.

ETA: At 2,000 rounds fired in some months, 50/hr wouldn't do it for me.

bac1023
11-13-2012, 20:01
Granted, I'm new to the 38, but took both the 17 and 38 to the range today and shot 'em side by side.

Not a lot of noticeable difference TO ME, but then I'm not particularly sensitive to recoil. The 38 might have had a slightly stronger "buck" when I pulled the trigger.

Was shooting WWB in the 17, and it felt pretty mild.

The 38 held mostly my weak reloads, one so weak it failed to extract even. And it seemed pretty mild as well.

I paced off about 12 yards and set up these two side by side 8" circles. The difference in accuracy could have something to do with shooting 3 different batches of .45 GAP ammo, or it might have been due to my newness with the pistol and anticipating stronger recoil.

Anyway, I am also anticipating becoming more accurate with my new 45GAP and in building more consistent loads.

More to follow....


Very cool :cool:

ron59
11-14-2012, 17:16
I use a single stage press, even though I have a progressive.
I seat and inspect each primer one at a time.
I charge and inspect each case with powder, one at a time.
I seat each bullet, one at a time.
I obsessively :cool: check each rounds O.A.L (+-.002 is acceptable)
Finally, I Taper crip.
Takes me about 1 hour :yawn: per 50 rounds.

I TRUST my ammo.

quality > quantity

Oh yea, I like the Glock 38 :thumbsup:

I've loaded over 40,000 rounds in the last 3 years without the first problem. I practice weekly and shoot multiple matches a month. No ammo problems.

There's careful... and there's debilitatingly OCD. Which are you?

You say you have a progressive press. Just guessing, but I'm thinking something like a crappy Lee Classic? Or at least a press that kept giving you problems and has caused you not to trust it?

I and and all my buddies have Dillon's, 550's or 650's. One has a Hornady LNL. WE produce ammo to shoot, spending 10 minutes per 100, not an hour for a measly 50 rounds.

You can be all smug about quality vs. quantity, we real shooters know the difference. You WON'T find a serious competition shooter who shoots 1500 rounds (or more) a month running a single stage. Period. 1500 rounds at an hour per 50? That's 30 hours a month reloading. Ha. As if.

Get a quality progressive, learn how to use it.... and make ammo.
Leave the smart ass comments for the guys who really are smart. That's not you.

Colorado4Wheel
11-14-2012, 19:00
Your more likely to screw up on a single stage. Your ammo is no better then mine made on a 650. You need some medication.

Boxerglocker
11-14-2012, 21:09
Your more likely to screw up on a single stage. Your ammo is no better then mine made on a 650. You need some medication.

Agreed, you can load just as reliable and accurate ammo out of a progressive press with less chance of screwing up. Loading pistol ammo isn't very much of a challenge to load for accuracy wise in a Glock. You would never know the difference between SS or Progressive made loads.
Just as a note to prove a point... With rifle, we all know consistency is a key to accurate ammo proven by good groups.
Here's a group of 5 shots of Horandy 50g Vmax .223 loaded on my XL650 progressive.
http://images5a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp63579%3Enu%3D68%3C5%3E%3A47%3E254%3EWSNRCG%3D343%3B6%3A4%3B79345nu0mrj
I loaded a lot of it as you can see (in a very short time) along with some 55g SPs for a Prairie dog hunting trip in Montana last summer. It all went bang, including a 440 yard kill shot at a coyote on Grandpas property. :supergrin:
http://images5a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp63547%3Enu%3D68%3C5%3E%3A47%3E254%3EWSNRCG%3D3453936%3A4%3A345nu0mrj

CDW4ME
11-15-2012, 05:13
I trust my pistol match ammo too - which is all I load for. But I load a heck of a lot more of it in an hour on my 650.

ETA: At 2,000 rounds fired in some months, 50/hr wouldn't do it for me.

I might shoot 100 ? Not as much as I use to.

I've loaded over 40,000 rounds in the last 3 years without the first problem. I practice weekly and shoot multiple matches a month. No ammo problems.

There's careful... and there's debilitatingly OCD. Which are you?

You say you have a progressive press. Just guessing, but I'm thinking something like a crappy Lee Classic? Or at least a press that kept giving you problems and has caused you not to trust it?

I and and all my buddies have Dillon's, 550's or 650's. One has a Hornady LNL. WE produce ammo to shoot, spending 10 minutes per 100, not an hour for a measly 50 rounds.

You can be all smug about quality vs. quantity, we real shooters know the difference. You WON'T find a serious competition shooter who shoots 1500 rounds (or more) a month running a single stage. Period. 1500 rounds at an hour per 50? That's 30 hours a month reloading. Ha. As if.

Get a quality progressive, learn how to use it.... and make ammo.
Leave the smart ass comments for the guys who really are smart. That's not you.

:shocked:

I have OCD tendencies (perfectionistic) in most things.
Not smart? (college grad with masters degree) WTF. Because I don't do it your way?
I've been reloading since the late 1980's.
I've loaded maybe 3,000 rounds in the last 3 years.
Yea, my progressive is a crappy old LEE, but the amount of shooting I do anymore does not justify the purchase of a new progressive.
Sometimes I use a simple Lee hand press at the kitchen table so I can be around my young boys instead of out in garage.
Smart ass? I did not try to be; If I was trying it would be obvious.

ron59
11-15-2012, 07:43
I have OCD tendencies (perfectionistic) in most things.
Not smart? (college grad with masters degree) WTF. Because I don't do it your way?
I've been reloading since the late 1980's.
I've loaded maybe 3,000 rounds in the last 3 years.
Yea, my progressive is a crappy old LEE, but the amount of shooting I do anymore does not justify the purchase of a new progressive.
Sometimes I use a simple Lee hand press at the kitchen table so I can be around my young boys instead of out in garage.
Smart ass? I did not try to be; If I was trying it would be obvious.

Doing things different isn't the problem.

Smug comments such as "quality vs quantity" *is*. As if using a progressive causes you to lose quality. While you might be college educated, that comment sure caused you to LOOK dumb. Because it literally was a "not smart" comment.

Eric Grauffel is one of the top shooters in the world.
He shoots literally 100,000 - 150,000 rounds PER YEAR.
LiveLeak.com - Eric Grauffel, France/Tanfoglio, (IPSC) with some impressive moves...., and scores...!
talks about him reloading 3 hours PER DAY or so to keep up with his shooting needs.

You think his ammo isn't of top quality? You think he's using a single stage to make that ammo?

Jerry Miculek makes HIS own ammo, using a progressive. I can't list every top pro, because many have ammo sponsors that GIVE them ammo for free. But most of us have to make our own, and you won't find one using a single stage, and I don't see "quality" issues from any of them.

Your statement was made from ignorance. You own a ****ty progressive press in which you have no confidence, so feel you need to use a single stage to make good ammo. That's where the fallacy comes in.
For those of us who use a QUALITY progressive press, it allows us to make quality ammo. At speed.

It's fine that you use a single stage press to make your ammo. It works for you. But making statements beyond that about progressive presses and the quality of the ammo produced thereby.... you're in water over your head.

(Note: this entire discussion is based around PISTOL ammo. We're on a pistol-based forum, where the OP is talking about shooting his Glock pistols. Precision benchrest rifle ammo might have different requirements that a single stage is better suited for producing. But that's a different conversation altogether.)

Yes, you stepped on some toes, by the other comments I can see that other SHOOTERS feel the same way. 3000 rounds in 3 years? Roughly 100 rounds per month? Sorry, I don't classify that as "a shooter", but someone who dabbles.

Dabble away. I'll be making quality ammo on my Dillon 650.

Colorado4Wheel
11-15-2012, 09:34
Should have bought a 650 years ago. You would feel different I would guess. Even Lee powder measures have gotten better in the last 5 years.

ADK_40GLKr
11-15-2012, 14:48
. for cost purposes you should be shooting the G17 more.

I have a nephew named Ron M. In Florida. I thought you might be him at first, until I figured out he's a little older than you, so I'm gonna be your "Dutch Uncle".

I SHOULD? I shoot the .45 because I believe it's a good self defense weapon, and I'm gonna keep shooting it at IDPA practice until I'm as good with it as the 9mm. Then I'll pick up my G17 again and start working on the next level.

For cost purposes I RELOAD! (Edit: WITH a Lee single stage.)

This works for me!

So THERE! You schmart alecky nephew!:tongueout:
.
.
.
.
.
:wavey:

CDW4ME
11-15-2012, 16:45
:yawn:

:upeyes:

:chatter:

:panties:

:notlistening:

ron59
11-15-2012, 21:54
:yawn:

:upeyes:

:chatter:

:panties:

:notlistening:


Your response doesn't surprise me at all.

When faced with superior logic, what can you do but this?

/thread

"Cold Dead Hands" !
11-15-2012, 22:14
Obama just got elected for 4 more years.
He's a Marxist.
I'd stick with a more common caliber.
It will be around if the ammo gets scarce.

IndyGunFreak
11-16-2012, 00:08
and just where do you fall? ;)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/IndyGunFreak/63720094-6.jpg

fredj338
11-16-2012, 13:14
I use a single stage press, even though I have a progressive.
I seat and inspect each primer one at a time.
I charge and inspect each case with powder, one at a time.
I seat each bullet, one at a time.
I obsessively :cool: check each rounds O.A.L (+-.002 is acceptable)
Finally, I Taper crip.
Takes me about 1 hour :yawn: per 50 rounds.

I TRUST my ammo.

quality > quantity

Oh yea, I like the Glock 38 :thumbsup:
Those of us that loads on quality progressives do the same thing, just w/ greater efficiency & thus higher volume per hr reloading. Ammo off my 650 will break 1 1/2" @ 50ft all day every day, offhand BTW. I get quality & quantity. So it's not the press but the components & the shooter is the final measuring stick.:dunno:

ADK_40GLKr
11-16-2012, 16:34
When faced with superior logic, what can you do but this?


:rofl:

squirreld
11-16-2012, 17:19
TAC @ 100 yards on a progressive.
Had a 6 mph crosswind that day.
http://home.earthlink.net/~squirreld/photo.JPG

RustyFN
11-16-2012, 17:39
Shot from my stock Rock River AR. The target was at 120 yards. Hornady bulk FMJBT 55 grain with 24.7 grains of H-335 and mixed brass. All loaded on a Dillon 550.

Three shots can be covered by a dime.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1db34b3127ccefd4baa81b77d00000030O00DZOGblm4Yg9vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Thirty shot group taking just enough time to reaim between shots. Bypod no rest.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2df26b3127cceff5a09bf74da00000030O00DZOGblm4Yg9vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

ron59
11-16-2012, 17:42
:rofl:

Yeah, laugh it up.
Let's see... it took you what.... MONTHS just to make the *worst* level of IDPA? So we know you know jack about shooting.
You feel you have to practice LOTS with your .45GAP for it to be your carry weapon? Not.

And.... you've been reloading for like a month now? You an expert on that yet?

Yeah, let me (or anybody else) listen to you about shooting guns or anything reloading related. You're just SO knowledgeable about it all.

And THAT'S worthy of a :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

fredj338
11-16-2012, 18:30
Hye, don;t mock guys for working to get to N in IDPA. At least they are there shooting. Want to get better, find a MA shooter & make freinds. You can learn a lot from better shooters if you are willing to listen. Oh yeah, same for serious relaoders w/ lots of exp.

ron59
11-16-2012, 19:04
Hye, don;t mock guys for working to get to N in IDPA. At least they are there shooting. Want to get better, find a MA shooter & make freinds. You can learn a lot from better shooters if you are willing to listen. Oh yeah, same for serious relaoders w/ lots of exp.

My point was... he's neither a shooter NOR a knowledgeable reloader, but acting like he's got it all locked down.

JTSmith
11-16-2012, 19:53
Yeah, laugh it up.
Let's see... it took you what.... MONTHS just to make the *worst* level of IDPA? So we know you know jack about shooting.
You feel you have to practice LOTS with your .45GAP for it to be your carry weapon? Not.

And.... you've been reloading for like a month now? You an expert on that yet?

Yeah, let me (or anybody else) listen to you about shooting guns or anything reloading related. You're just SO knowledgeable about it all.

And THAT'S worthy of a :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I thought he was just laughing at your funny comment?

Please don't be mean to me for asking.

ADK_40GLKr
11-16-2012, 21:54
You're right, Ron, I've been shooting handguns (mostly Glocks) for about 2.5 years. I'm still not very good at it, but I'm learning, and making progress.

Been going to IDPA (practice) for about 6 months. My speed (or lack of it) held me back for quite a bit of that. For me, it was quite an achievement when I classified in the "worst level" a couple months ago on my G17.

Since then, I've also done it with my 27.

Reloading? Aargh! Yeah, I'm a total newb. But I now know ten times what I knew about it 2 months ago, which still isn't much.

I was trying to be a bit humorous while mildly chiding you for telling me what I should do. For now, I LIKE loading on my Lee single stage press. One of these days I'll get that right, and maybe I'll move up to something fancier and faster. Right now, it's all I need.

Have a little more respect for your elders. (Oops, another weak attempt at humor.) Those silly smileys haven't been working very well if I offended you with my remarks. Sorry.

But, I DO know what I want and I'm working toward it regardless of your hostility.

CDW4ME
11-16-2012, 22:01
Your response doesn't surprise me at all.

When faced with superior logic, what can you do but this?

/thread

When faced with an antagonistic keyboard commando...

Dude, I initally made a comment you didn't like; I did not deliberately insult you.

I subsequently posted a 2nd time attempting to rectify my transgression, but nnnnnooooo that wasn't good enough.

Get over it already.

If it's not apparent by my amount of shooting, I'm not into practical shooting competitions, or similar.

However, I did win the "top gun" award for pistol two years straight when I was a police officer (long time ago). I have nothing to prove to anyone (or myself) in regard to my proficiency with a pistol. Am I as good as I was 18 years ago? Hell no. Do I have as much time or desire to practice as I did 18 years ago? Hell no.
Am I currently interested in shooting with others either formally or informally? NO.
I shoot in my backyard whenever I get the urge and I have the time.

When I do handload, I load Hornady XTP bullets to match factory velocities in their respective calibers. I have no reservation about carrying the ammo I handload for SD. I use only new components to assemble my handloads.
If I do reload some 45 (or other) brass, then it would be (is) regulated to practice only.
(Notice the distinction between a handload vs reload)

I'm not only very satisfied with the ammo I produce, the time consuming method I use matches my current use. Is this a problem? Not to me.

I'm not a shooter in your opinion? :upeyes:
Like I care. :quiet:

I shoot enough to feel competent if involved in a SD situation.

I may have made myself look stupid with my initial reply, but at least I stopped there. ;)


OP: I apoligize I my initial post derailed your thread, it was not my intention.

I have a Glock 38 and really like it.
Using my "cheap" and slow handloading equipment, I got an average speed of 964 fps with the Hornady 185 XTP which essentially matched the 970 fps avergae velocity of the same bullet out of my 45 acp 30SF. :)
When I carry the 38, I use a Blade-Tech UCH IWB holster.