State your opinion of your views. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Elysianarcane
11-13-2012, 03:24
Hopefully this won't cause a debate, but I think I'd like to hear peoples own opinion on their preferences.

Mine are (And it can be about anything Gun related)

.45ACP or bust.

The .40 S&W is a odd round... either go 9X19, or .45....

10mm Auto is better then the .357SIG in every way possible.

I think Glock's are fantastic pistols, but NOT the greatest on the planet.

For killing, the 5.45X39 is better then the 5.56 NATO...

When it comes down to M1911's I won't touch anything but a Colt.

All in all. I carry a Beretta 92FS with 124gr Double-Tap +P's

Jeff Hughes
11-13-2012, 07:56
All in all. I carry a Beretta 92FS with 124gr Double-Tap +P's

Really?

You are killing your credibility. You just stated in Mas's forum that you are not old enough to carry yet...

Arvinator
11-13-2012, 08:39
The 1911 is 100 years old for good reason.
If you think a 9mm won't kill you, I know a few headstones to show you.
Handguns are handy, rifles are dandy.
The best caliber for self defense starts with 7.62
I own a .40 due to my job, I own revolvers for reliability
Most who have told me "What it takes to survive a gunfight" has never been anywhere near a fight.

As I am in my 23rd year, I have been able to do task number one: Go home at the end of every shift safe & sound...

alwaysshootin
11-13-2012, 08:49
When it comes down to M1911's I won't touch anything but a Colt.

10mm Auto is better then the .357SIG in every way possible.

All in all. I carry a Beretta 92FS with 124gr Double-Tap +P's



That's odd, that's the one 1911, I won't own! The only thing more odd is your other two statements! :rofl:

ChuteTheMall
11-13-2012, 08:51
State your opinion of your views.

In my opinion, my views are correct.

unit1069
11-13-2012, 08:53
Really?

You are killing your credibility. You just stated in Mas's forum that you are not old enough to carry yet...

HAW! You nailed it!

The first stop when I check into Glock Talk is the Gate Self-Defense forum and the second is Caliber Corner. I caught this immediately, as did you.

alwaysshootin
11-13-2012, 09:25
Really?

You are killing your credibility. You just stated in Mas's forum that you are not old enough to carry yet...

I have to admit, I'm impressed! Taking names,right out of the box! Impressive to say the least.

M 7
11-13-2012, 12:09
State your opinion of your views.

In my opinion, my views are correct.

Dang it! You beat me to it! :rofl:

whoflungdo
11-13-2012, 12:12
Hopefully this won't cause a debate, but I think I'd like to hear peoples own opinion on their preferences.

Mine are (And it can be about anything Gun related)

.45ACP or bust.

The .40 S&W is a odd round... either go 9X19, or .45....

10mm Auto is better then the .357SIG in every way possible.

I think Glock's are fantastic pistols, but NOT the greatest on the planet.

For killing, the 5.45X39 is better then the 5.56 NATO...

When it comes down to M1911's I won't touch anything but a Colt.

All in all. I carry a Beretta 92FS with 124gr Double-Tap +P's

My opinion of my views are that they are all right and yours are all wrong.:wavey:

dkf
11-13-2012, 12:16
The 1911 is 100 years old for good reason.

Because gun companies kept it around. If old GI issue 1911 Colts were the only 1911s on the market the 1911 most likely would have died off or went to nill a very long time ago.

uz2bUSMC
11-13-2012, 16:56
All in all. I carry a Beretta 92FS with 124gr Double-Tap +P's

Sorry for your luck.

ETA: Just my opinion.

uz2bUSMC
11-13-2012, 17:00
Really?

You are killing your credibility. You just stated in Mas's forum that you are not old enough to carry yet...

Awsome. Your first post is throwin' someone under the bus. Good stuff!

ETA: Just my second opinion.

fredj338
11-13-2012, 17:21
The 1911 is 100 years old for good reason.
sound...
Yeah, because the design still works pretty much unchanged for 101 yrs. We'll see if Glock can last that long.:tongueout:
Plenty of really good 1911 not made by Colt. Nothing wrong with the 40 either, it does offer some benefits of both 9mm & 45. GLock is a good tool, but I have seen my share have failures, they are not idiot proof. Only thing really wrong w/ the 10mm is lack of enough diff guns to make it matter.

17&27
11-13-2012, 17:49
I believe it takes a fair sized hog to weigh a ton.

B_RAD
11-13-2012, 18:05
State your opinion of your views.

In my opinion, my views are correct.

:rofl: I feel the same way.

4949shooter
11-13-2012, 18:15
Awsome. Your first post is throwin' someone under the bus. Good stuff!

ETA: Just my second opinion.

Lol I didn't notice it was his first post.

uz2bUSMC
11-13-2012, 18:22
Lol I didn't notice it was his first post.

Yep, funny as hell to me.:supergrin:

ET: Damnit, third opinion.

uz2bUSMC
11-13-2012, 18:25
Jeff,

Don't do it bro... you should save your second post for something else epic.


#4

Andy W
11-13-2012, 20:28
Okay dude, so your first statement says ".45 ACP or bust." Then you mention you carry a Beretta 92FS. Kind of a contradiction isn't it? Just giving you some **** dude. :tongueout:

I do agree the .40 S&W is an odd round. Anymore I don't think there is much of a need to bridge the gap between 9mm and .45.

Clutch Cargo
11-13-2012, 20:59
Hopefully this won't cause a debate, but I think I'd like to hear peoples own opinion on their preferences.

Mine are (And it can be about anything Gun related)

.45ACP or bust.

The .40 S&W is a odd round... either go 9X19, or .45....

10mm Auto is better then the .357SIG in every way possible.

I think Glock's are fantastic pistols, but NOT the greatest on the planet.

For killing, the 5.45X39 is better then the 5.56 NATO...

When it comes down to M1911's I won't touch anything but a Colt.

All in all. I carry a Beretta 92FS with 124gr Double-Tap +P's

Still waiting on that 1911 Colt?:supergrin:

captdreifus
11-14-2012, 01:29
Still waiting on that 1911 Colt?:supergrin:

ZINNGG!!:rofl:

4949shooter
11-14-2012, 01:31
Jeff,

Don't do it bro... you should save your second post for something else epic.


#4

He still has 1 post. There is potential for epic proportions.

#5

Elysianarcane
11-14-2012, 01:32
I have a Colt Gold Cup Series 70 and a National Match.

NEOH212
11-14-2012, 03:02
Hopefully this won't cause a debate, but I think I'd like to hear peoples own opinion on their preferences.

Mine are (And it can be about anything Gun related)

.45ACP or bust.

The .40 S&W is a odd round... either go 9X19, or .45....

10mm Auto is better then the .357SIG in every way possible.

I think Glock's are fantastic pistols, but NOT the greatest on the planet.

For killing, the 5.45X39 is better then the 5.56 NATO...

When it comes down to M1911's I won't touch anything but a Colt.

All in all. I carry a Beretta 92FS with 124gr Double-Tap +P's


My opinion: (Yes, opinion. As in, "I don't speak for everyone.")

1. I'll take a .45 for my first choice every time.

2. The .40 nicely fills the gap (that still exists) between the 9mm and .45 ACP. The .40 is what I would be carrying if I couldn't carry a .45 caliber pistol. I won't personally go below .40 if I have a choice in the matter. 9mm is adequate though and I have nothing against it.

However, there is nothing the 9mm can do that the .40 or .45 can't do better when comparing the best loads in each caliber to each other when fired from a full size handgun. I still prefer to stay above 9mm if I can help it.

3. I don't personally care for either cartridge. I Agree on the 10mm in the sense of shear power and penetration but if I had to choose between one or the other for carry, I'd take the .357 Sig. Why? Smaller platform, more controllable, the gun fits my hand better, and less possibility of overpenetration.

4. Glock makes a good gun but not a great gun. Yes there is certainly better but not at that price point.

5. Of the two, 5.56 every time. If I want a commie cartridge, I'd rather have the 7.62x39. (.308 is still better! :supergrin:)

6. When it comes to 1911's, I'd rather have a Sig or HK. The only 1911's I'll ever own are high end custom guns or none at all.

7. The Beretta is a solid choice and if it works for you that's even better. (The Beretta is my favorite pistol in 9mm!)

:wavey:

chemcmndr
11-14-2012, 06:54
My opinions:

1. Carry the largest caliber that you can shoot accurately.
2. Carry a proven and reliable cartridge in your weapon.
3. Practice often enough that you maintain or improve your level of proficiency with your carry firearm.
4. If it's worth shooting once, it's worth shooting twice.

SCmasterblaster
11-14-2012, 07:14
I carry a Glock Model 17 loaded with 17 rounds of 115gr JHP+p+ Winchester cartridges. It is very comforting to know that I have enough powerful ammunition if confronted by four or five assailants.

uz2bUSMC
11-14-2012, 09:15
My opinion: (Yes, opinion. As in, "I don't speak for everyone.")

3. I don't personally care for either cartridge. I Agree on the 10mm in the sense of shear power and penetration but if I had to choose between one or the other for carry, I'd take the .357 Sig. Why? Smaller platform, more controllable, the gun fits my hand better, and less possibility of overpenetration.


:wavey:

There is no need to worry about over penetration with the10mm.

SCmasterblaster
11-14-2012, 12:42
There is no need to worry about over penetration with the10mm.

Which 10 mm load are you referring to? The reduced load .40S&W equivalent, or the original full 10mm loading?

uz2bUSMC
11-14-2012, 13:49
Which 10 mm load are you referring to? The reduced load .40S&W equivalent, or the original full 10mm loading?

Full house 10mm loadings. Also of note, your tone in today's posts seems... different...

uz2bUSMC
11-14-2012, 14:00
He still has 1 post. There is potential for epic proportions.

#5

Agreed.

SCmasterblaster
11-14-2012, 14:19
Full house 10mm loadings. Also of note, your tone in today's posts seems... different...

I hope that I didn't sound rude - not my intent, :cool:

uz2bUSMC
11-14-2012, 14:32
I hope that I didn't sound rude - not my intent, :cool:

Nah man, not at all.

SCmasterblaster
11-14-2012, 14:44
Nah man, not at all.

So how are things in the 12th state? I am in the 14th state.

uz2bUSMC
11-14-2012, 14:48
So how are things in the 12th state? I am in the 14th state.

Eh, not bad I guess. Can't really complain.

ditto1958
11-14-2012, 14:58
Ah jus' loves me some caliber wars!

I Shooter
11-14-2012, 16:01
The 45ACP is a great round and the Glock is a great hand gun. I carry a Glock 36.

The 40 S&W is a round that was commissioned by the FBI. They wanted a round that had the stopping power of a 125gr, 357mag with less recoil. They also wanted ten rounds and as easy to train with as a revolver. Simith & Wesson came up with the 40 S&W and a pistol that was double action only. It was offered to the FBI and they bought it.

The 5.56 was not picked by the military because of its killing power. It was designed to hurt people. Take them out of the fight and have some one look after them. It takes two to four men to take care of a man hurt and no one has to take care of a dead man. That is why they picked the 5.56 over the 7.62.

My side arm in the woods is a 44mag. Daily carry is a Glock 36. Best all around gun to do both tasks would be 3" 357 revolver.

For hunting any big game in the United States it would be hard to beat the 358 Winchester with a stiff load. It can be down loaded with 357 bullets and used for taking small game.

These are just my opinions.

Warp
11-14-2012, 16:33
My opinions:

1. Carry the largest caliber that you can shoot accurately.
2. Carry a proven and reliable cartridge in your weapon.
3. Practice often enough that you maintain or improve your level of proficiency with your carry firearm.
4. If it's worth shooting once, it's worth shooting twice.

1. You should be able to shoot any size caliber accurately. Some will be quicker for follow up shots than others, though.

NEOH212
11-15-2012, 03:20
There is no need to worry about over penetration with the10mm.

Not from what I've seen but maybe your tests results were somehow different than mine.

There isn't enough street data on the 10mm nor any commercially available loads in 10mm that are scientifically/professionally tested to the same standards as most Law Enforcement grade ammunition.

As a result, there isn't much real world data available on the subject. Yes, there is some but much of it is either inconclusive or incomplete.

I don't like betting on maybe or it probably won't. Granted, my tests with several 10mm loads were in no way scientific but the results with the 10mm loads almost all over penetrated when compared to other popular calibers such as .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and .357 Mag.

None of the loads tested in any of the other calibers showed any over penetration where the 10mm did nearly every time. We obtained average to really impressive expansion on the loads tested but we had severe over penetration issues with most of them.

To sum it up, the 10mm has a lot of power behind it and it shows in the form of over penetration. With hand loads that were toned down a good bit (closer to .40 S&W velocities) over penetration wasn't a issue and expansion wasn't as impressive with some bullets either.

I'm not here to tell anyone that carries this cartridge that they should reconsider it. All I'm stating is what my experience has been with the cartridge and why I feel the way I do about it.

In short, it's not for me.

4949shooter
11-15-2012, 14:10
The 10mm isn't for everyone. The boost you get over the .40 S&W is worth it to some, but frankly, most people can't handle it. That's why I would never recommend the 10mm to my agency as a prospective choice for a duty caliber. Even the mid range loads are too stout for many shooters, and most especially those LEO's who don't practice their shooting skills. That having been said, my 17 year old son can handle 200 grain Underwood XTP, so where there's a will there's a way. I must be completely forthcoming though, in that my son is a 6 foot 3 inch tight end on his high school football team. If size and strength matters, which I think it does in shooting the heavier calibers, the 10mm is way too much for many smaller statured police officers who weren't born and bred shooting firearms.

SCmasterblaster
11-15-2012, 15:01
I may one day carry a G36. It is a neat and powerful combo.

uz2bUSMC
11-15-2012, 15:18
Not from what I've seen but maybe your tests results were somehow different than mine.

There isn't enough street data on the 10mm nor any commercially available loads in 10mm that are scientifically/professionally tested to the same standards as most Law Enforcement grade ammunition.

As a result, there isn't much real world data available on the subject. Yes, there is some but much of it is either inconclusive or incomplete.

I don't like betting on maybe or it probably won't. Granted, my tests with several 10mm loads were in no way scientific but the results with the 10mm loads almost all over penetrated when compared to other popular calibers such as .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and .357 Mag.

None of the loads tested in any of the other calibers showed any over penetration where the 10mm did nearly every time. We obtained average to really impressive expansion on the loads tested but we had severe over penetration issues with most of them.

To sum it up, the 10mm has a lot of power behind it and it shows in the form of over penetration. With hand loads that were toned down a good bit (closer to .40 S&W velocities) over penetration wasn't a issue and expansion wasn't as impressive with some bullets either.

I'm not here to tell anyone that carries this cartridge that they should reconsider it. All I'm stating is what my experience has been with the cartridge and why I feel the way I do about it.

In short, it's not for me.

Hmmm, not what I've seen in my testing nor the gel tests that I have seen around the net. Can more velocity cause more penetration from over expansion (petals folding back around the core of the bullet)? Sure. Most times velocity hinders penetration because of increased deformation of the projectile and the increase of resistance from retarding forces. The difference I've witnessed between the calibers was much more pronounced in the way of destruction, if you will, not penetration.

Now when you say "over penetration' do you mean it just simply penetrated more than the others? It actually takes a lot of penetration to really count as over penetration.

SCmasterblaster
11-15-2012, 15:29
Hmmm, not what I've seen in my testing nor the gel tests that I have seen around the net. Can more velocity cause more penetration from over expansion (petals folding back around the core of the bullet)? Sure. Most times velocity hinders penetration because of increased deformation of the projectile and the increase of resistance from retarding forces. The difference I've witnessed between the calibers was much more pronounced in the way of destruction, if you will, not penetration.

Now when you say "over penetration' do you mean it just simply penetrated more than the others? It actually takes a lot of penetration to really count as over penetration.

You are well-educated in this discussion. Bullet overpenetration is a much-discussed topic.

4949shooter
11-15-2012, 15:56
Hmmm, not what I've seen in my testing nor the gel tests that I have seen around the net. Can more velocity cause more penetration from over expansion (petals folding back around the core of the bullet)? Sure. Most times velocity hinders penetration because of increased deformation of the projectile and the increase of resistance from retarding forces. The difference I've witnessed between the calibers was much more pronounced in the way of destruction, if you will, not penetration.

Now when you say "over penetration' do you mean it just simply penetrated more than the others? It actually takes a lot of penetration to really count as over penetration.

It's like that 180 grain Underwood test tnoutdoors did. The Gold Dot completely expanded, and the petals bent all the way back with the jacket almost separating from the core. I am sure that bullet expanded past its limit, and the velocity of the Underwood load kept it driving deeper into the test media.

I have thought about what you speak of too. I often wonder how much deeper the Underwood 200 XTP will be driven as compared to the Hornady 200 grain load.

SCmasterblaster
11-15-2012, 16:01
It's like that 180 grain Underwood test tnoutdoors did. The Gold Dot completely expanded, and the petals bent all the way back with the jacket almost separating from the core. I am sure that bullet expanded past its limit, and the velocity of the Underwood load kept it driving deeper into the test media.

I have thought about what you speak of too. I often wonder how much deeper the Underwood 200 XTP will be driven as compared to the Hornady 200 grain load.

What was the caliber - .40 S&W?

4949shooter
11-15-2012, 16:02
What was the caliber - .40 S&W?

10mm @1300+

SCmasterblaster
11-15-2012, 16:03
10mm @1300+

Awesome round, the 10mm.

uz2bUSMC
11-15-2012, 16:04
It's like that 180 grain Underwood test tnoutdoors did. The Gold Dot completely expanded, and the petals bent all the way back with the jacket almost separating from the core. I am sure that bullet expanded past its limit, and the velocity of the Underwood load kept it driving deeper into the test media.

I have thought about what you speak of too. I often wonder how much deeper the Underwood 200 XTP will be driven as compared to the Hornady 200 grain load.

I would guess it would drive that sucker pretty deep. As you know, the core on the XTPs are stout. Pretty much seems to me that the petals are on their own so to speak. I think the faster you drive it the petals will either try harder to lay flat giving way to some deep penetration. I wouldn't use it on people that's for certain.

uz2bUSMC
11-15-2012, 16:07
Awesome round, the 10mm.

You should look up the vid (180grn by TN9outdoors) on Youtube.

SCmasterblaster
11-15-2012, 16:09
I would guess it would drive that sucker pretty deep. As you know, the core on the XTPs are stout. Pretty much seems to me that the petals are on their own so to speak. I think the faster you drive it the petals will either try harder to lay flat giving way to some deep penetration. I wouldn't use it on people that's for certain.

So my 115gr Hornady 9mm XTP bullets are no good for SD?

uz2bUSMC
11-15-2012, 16:28
So my 115gr Hornady 9mm XTP bullets are no good for SD?

Oh, I'm not saying that. To be honest I don't know much about that round. Lucky for you 9mm guys you do have lots of documented street shootings to help along with ammo selection. I would personally stick to one of the common bullets in 9mm for SD purposes in big factory name loadings or Underwood. The XTPs are meant for deep penetration but are not really expansion kings. Many of the other common bullets such as the Gold Dots, HST, etc give good expansion and meet most peoples needs for minimum penetration with street cred to boot.

The reason I said that about the 10mm 200 grain XTP is because of a few reasons. One is that the XTP, again, is really a hunting bullet with tough construction. Two, it has a high sectional density at that weight. Three, the combination of these factors coupled with the higher energy levels of the 10mm, IMHO, make it unsuitable for common SD purposes. Energy is essentially the bullet's ability to do work. Although some energy is lost in the way of heat (and other things) there is plenty enough ability left to possibly make it over penetrate with the potential for deep penetration on another (inocent) target.

SCmasterblaster
11-15-2012, 18:50
Oh, I'm not saying that. To be honest I don't know much about that round. Lucky for you 9mm guys you do have lots of documented street shootings to help along with ammo selection. I would personally stick to one of the common bullets in 9mm for SD purposes in big factory name loadings or Underwood. The XTPs are meant for deep penetration but are not really expansion kings. Many of the other common bullets such as the Gold Dots, HST, etc give good expansion and meet most peoples needs for minimum penetration with street cred to boot.

The reason I said that about the 10mm 200 grain XTP is because of a few reasons. One is that the XTP, again, is really a hunting bullet with tough construction. Two, it has a high sectional density at that weight. Three, the combination of these factors coupled with the higher energy levels of the 10mm, IMHO, make it unsuitable for common SD purposes. Energy is essentially the bullet's ability to do work. Although some energy is lost in the way of heat (and other things) there is plenty enough ability left to possibly make it over penetrate with the potential for deep penetration on another (inocent) target.

OK, I understand. :cool:

4949shooter
11-15-2012, 20:17
I would guess it would drive that sucker pretty deep. As you know, the core on the XTPs are stout. Pretty much seems to me that the petals are on their own so to speak. I think the faster you drive it the petals will either try harder to lay flat giving way to some deep penetration. I wouldn't use it on people that's for certain.

Yep I agree. It's my carry load for when I am hunting predators at night, as a backup to my shotgun. Our SOP states we have to carry JHP's in our off duty guns, so the XTP is to my way of thinking the next best thing to fmj rounds for penetration. By your synopsis, the UW would outpenetrate the Hornady, and I think you are right in that the expansion in the UW would not be so great in an XTP bullet. I would like to see tnoutdoors do some more tests with the XTP's.

Hopefully, I will never have to use either one on an angry bear.

SCmasterblaster
11-16-2012, 12:59
Yep I agree. It's my carry load for when I am hunting predators at night, as a backup to my shotgun. Our SOP states we have to carry JHP's in our off duty guns, so the XTP is to my way of thinking the next best thing to fmj rounds for penetration. By your synopsis, the UW would outpenetrate the Hornady, and I think you are right in that the expansion in the UW would not be so great in an XTP bullet. I would like to see tnoutdoors do some more tests with the XTP's.

Hopefully, I will never have to use either one on an angry bear.

So what is UW - underwater?

4949shooter
11-16-2012, 13:20
So what is UW - underwater?

Underwood Ammunition

http://www.underwoodammo.com/

uz2bUSMC
11-16-2012, 13:41
Yep I agree. It's my carry load for when I am hunting predators at night, as a backup to my shotgun. Our SOP states we have to carry JHP's in our off duty guns, so the XTP is to my way of thinking the next best thing to fmj rounds for penetration. By your synopsis, the UW would outpenetrate the Hornady, and I think you are right in that the expansion in the UW would not be so great in an XTP bullet. I would like to see tnoutdoors do some more tests with the XTP's.

Hopefully, I will never have to use either one on an angry bear.

Yeah, I would definitely like to see that test as well. It's a bullet I would rather see tested than really try to guess what it will do at 10mm speeds. Good luck avoiding the pissed off bears!:supergrin:

4949shooter
11-16-2012, 13:51
Good luck avoiding the pissed off bears!:supergrin:

Lol. :supergrin:

I just auggested the 200 grain XTP's over on 10mmfirearms.com.

SCmasterblaster
11-16-2012, 14:40
Underwood Ammunition

http://www.underwoodammo.com/

I should have known!! :cool:

uz2bUSMC
11-16-2012, 14:53
Lol. :supergrin:

I just auggested the 200 grain XTP's over on 10mmfirearms.com.

Nice! Hopefully it happens...

SCmasterblaster
11-16-2012, 19:40
The 45ACP is a great round and the Glock is a great hand gun. I carry a Glock 36.

The 40 S&W is a round that was commissioned by the FBI. They wanted a round that had the stopping power of a 125gr, 357mag with less recoil. They also wanted ten rounds and as easy to train with as a revolver. Simith & Wesson came up with the 40 S&W and a pistol that was double action only. It was offered to the FBI and they bought it.

The 5.56 was not picked by the military because of its killing power. It was designed to hurt people. Take them out of the fight and have some one look after them. It takes two to four men to take care of a man hurt and no one has to take care of a dead man. That is why they picked the 5.56 over the 7.62.

My side arm in the woods is a 44mag. Daily carry is a Glock 36. Best all around gun to do both tasks would be 3" 357 revolver.

For hunting any big game in the United States it would be hard to beat the 358 Winchester with a stiff load. It can be down loaded with 357 bullets and used for taking small game.

These are just my opinions.

So. I am considering getting a Glock 36. What do you think of your G36?