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Outer Rondacker
11-16-2012, 06:17
I searched and check the first four pages and found nothing I was looking for so I will just ask.

I am looking to reload some 45 acp+p cases (speer) with 230 g or 185 grain MG HP. I would like to use the 230s.

I am looking to make this load good and hot for a Rifle not pistol.

All are large pistol primers and I am looking for different recipes hoping I have the powder you are suggesting. I am only looking to load up 355 rounds since that is all I have for cases. Dont want to run out to buy a special powder I will never use again. But if I have to I will. That said. Please do share your info. OAL Powder Speed so on. Thanks

GIockGuy24
11-16-2012, 06:38
From the old hard cover Hodgdon load guide,

185 grain JHP - 6.6 grains of HP38

230 grain JHP - 6.0 grains of HP38

In a 5 inch barreled Colt 1911 these loads gave me average velocities of 1129 fps and 955 fps.

Kentguy
11-16-2012, 07:09
NY Rebel,

I'm not sure your going to get a lot of takers on offering +P loads. Perhaps you will. Those type of load are best worked up on your own using your equipment/pistols/rifles, as well as your level of understanding about ballistics. What I can tell you is your best bet is to copy factory rounds using your load books with the powder you have on the shelf.

Use these numbers as your base of information, you can use whatever factory +P ammo you want, but the "Velocity" is what you focus on. When you check out your load books that will tell you based on which powder(s) you have on the shelf - how far you need to go in order to achieve "+P" range.

Hornady "Custom" Ammunition (Factory Ammo)
230g XTP HP +P
Velocity - Box listed @ 950 fps / 887.6 fps my 5 shot average @ 75 degrees
OAL - 1.230"
Test Gun - Glock model 21 w/4.60" barrel

Remember also that load book velocities for the .45 ACP are tested out of pistols (4", 5" barrels), If you are going to run these out of (I'm assuming a pistol caliber carbine?) rifle, you are going to achieve a higher velocity with that longer barrel, so keep that in mind.

Primers - use what you have; Speer uses CCI #300, Hornady tests with Winchester's WLP, Lyman tests with both Remington 2 1/2 & CCI #300.

I like the 230g bullet for this caliber over most all the rest. I have tested 2 other weights but I (or my G21) likes the 230g bullet best.

I know this may not be exactly what you were looking for but I hope this gives you enough to start running your own tests.

Good luck and please be safe. :thumbsup:

Arc Angel
11-16-2012, 07:49
:goodpost: Very good post!

No matter the gun, you've always got to work the load up in .1 grain increments for use in YOUR OWN gun(s). I'll give you a hint, though:

Think, 'Vithavuori'! ;)

SDGlock23
11-16-2012, 08:41
I tried a load found in Alliants reloader guide calling for 8.1gr of Power Pistol under a 230gr Gold Dot @ 1.260" (.45 ACP of course). It's the only powder I use in .45 Super, so I thought I would give it a try, but I don't have any Gold Dots. To note, this is not listed as +P either.

8.1gr Power Pistol, 230gr Precision Delta FMJ @ 1.240", avg velocity out of Gen4 G21 w/5" KKM barrel : 993 fps

Brass looked great as well.

fredj338
11-16-2012, 10:46
IF you are going off the books to make 45acp+P, do NOT use something like W231, you need to think slower powders. Unique works, WSF a bit better, about like PP. SInce none of us can measure +P pressures, what vel level are you looking for? A healthy does of BD will get top vel w/ lower pressures, so will LOngshot & AA#7.

Outer Rondacker
11-16-2012, 11:41
I have the Lee second edition, Lyman 3rd, lyman 46th, hornady 3rd, speer #10, Hodgdon 25th and to be honest many more and not one list 45 +p or super. The rifle liked the speer +p 230 the best that is why I am looking to load up the same.

Powders I have on hand without a hour trip to town are. IMR 4227, TiteGroup, Blue Dot, Imr HI-Skor 700-X, Reloder 7, and Unique. These are just some powders I have if none will work that is fine I was just looking to load a few up and step outback and give them a try today. Primers I will be using are WLP. I reload for my 45 Gap and use Titgroup and that seams to work fine but dont do much reloading of the 45 auto.

fredj338
11-16-2012, 13:02
I have the Lee second edition, Lyman 3rd, lyman 46th, hornady 3rd, speer #10, Hodgdon 25th and to be honest many more and not one list 45 +p or super. The rifle liked the speer +p 230 the best that is why I am looking to load up the same.

Powders I have on hand without a hour trip to town are. IMR 4227, TiteGroup, Blue Dot, Imr HI-Skor 700-X, Reloder 7, and Unique. These are just some powders I have if none will work that is fine I was just looking to load a few up and step outback and give them a try today. Primers I will be using are WLP. I reload for my 45 Gap and use Titgroup and that seams to work fine but dont do much reloading of the 45 auto.

Well TG & 700 are certainly out, pressure spikes will occur once you go past max. So of those BD or Unique. Again, what are you trying to achieve? A +P load is higher pressure, if you just want another 100fps, yo ucan get there w/o hitting +P pressures w/ either.

F106 Fan
11-16-2012, 13:32
If you Google for '.45 acp rifle +p reload', you will run into Handloads.com and they have loads for .45 ACP +P

I wouldn't use an Internet load on a bet because I have no idea where the data came from. Some is attributed to powder manufacturers, some is from guests. If you compare the manufacturer loads on Handload.com with those at their website, don't be surprised if they have backed off - a LOT!

ALL OF THESE INTERNET LOADS ARE RISKY!

.45 ACP max pressure is 21,000 psi
.45 ACP +P max pressure is 23,000 psi

And we have no way to measure pressure... I'm not sure it is worth the risk for only 10%,

Any thought that looking at the primers from a pistol to determine pressure is pretty much debunked starting at page 59 of Speer #14 and page 194 of "Reloading for Handgunners".

Richard

Zombie Steve
11-16-2012, 13:49
Sierra's data takes a 230 up to 6.8 grains of Unique with their JHP. I worked up this load years ago when I started reloading. Thought they were hot, finally put them over a chrono. At 6.7 grains / 1.210" OAL, I was getting 960 fps.

:cool:

Really have no reason to go that hot again.


Definitely look for a slow burning powder. Blue Dot might be a good choice, but I wouldn't go faster than Unique.


Also:

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=45%20ACP%20%20P&Weight=185&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

Take it with a grain of salt. Your fingers on the line.

fredj338
11-16-2012, 14:22
Sierra's data takes a 230 up to 6.8 grains of Unique with their JHP. I worked up this load years ago when I started reloading. Thought they were hot, finally put them over a chrono. At 6.7 grains / 1.210" OAL, I was getting 960 fps.

:cool:

Really have no reason to go that hot again.


Definitely look for a slow burning powder. Blue Dot might be a good choice, but I wouldn't go faster than Unique.


Also:

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=45%20ACP%20%20P&Weight=185&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

Take it with a grain of salt. Your fingers on the line.

You are so wise for a guy living in a blue state.:wavey:

Zombie Steve
11-16-2012, 14:40
Yes, I've finally admitted that Colorado has fallen.


I am still fighting the idea that the conservatives should be red states. Seems like the liberals are better suited to red.

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/asia/china/flag.GIF

http://conzervative.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/propaganda_2.jpg

fredj338
11-16-2012, 16:05
Yeah, the libs took blue first as they knew the optics of red played against them. As long as guys like you & Jack live there, it isn't a total waste. I have my own little group of patriots here, but it gets smaller ever year as the smarter ones move out. I've got to get out soon. This state is completely doomed to fail sooner than later.

snowwdog
11-16-2012, 16:29
i have loaded 7.2 grains of universal clays under a 185 grain berrys for years. No pressure signs. please note i worked that up in my guns not yours. But it does have some serious bang. In a rifle it may go over pressure. Work it up and see what your cases tell you.

RWBlue
11-16-2012, 17:01
I searched and check the first four pages and found nothing I was looking for so I will just ask.

I am looking to reload some 45 acp+p cases (speer) with 230 g or 185 grain MG HP. I would like to use the 230s.

I am looking to make this load good and hot for a Rifle not pistol.

All are large pistol primers and I am looking for different recipes hoping I have the powder you are suggesting. I am only looking to load up 355 rounds since that is all I have for cases. Dont want to run out to buy a special powder I will never use again. But if I have to I will. That said. Please do share your info. OAL Powder Speed so on. Thanks

I have the Lee second edition, Lyman 3rd, lyman 46th, hornady 3rd, speer #10, Hodgdon 25th and to be honest many more and not one list 45 +p or super. The rifle liked the speer +p 230 the best that is why I am looking to load up the same.

Powders I have on hand without a hour trip to town are. IMR 4227, TiteGroup, Blue Dot, Imr HI-Skor 700-X, Reloder 7, and Unique. These are just some powders I have if none will work that is fine I was just looking to load a few up and step outback and give them a try today. Primers I will be using are WLP. I reload for my 45 Gap and use Titgroup and that seams to work fine but dont do much reloading of the 45 auto.

1. What gun?
2. Do you know how to read pressure signs?
3. Do you have access to a chronograph?

I would like to know the answers to 1, 2, and 3 before going on, but for expediency.

I am not going to tell you what to do. I am just saying if I were to do what you are suggesting this is how I would go about it. If you decide to do this you are on your own and I take no responsibility for your actions.

If I were to try to do this.....

I think I would find all the reloading data I could for 45Super and 45Rowland.
Then I would match up the data in a spreadsheet to the data I can find for 45ACP.
Then I would find a powder that works in the 45Super/Rowland that I also have data for in the 45ACP.
Then I would slowly work up my 45ACP until I saw a sign of pressure or reached the velocity I wanted. Assuming I was watching the primers I should be able to be safe.



If I was not watching the primers and going very slow. If I were loading for a G21 I would expect to see signs of the unsupported barrel before I got a KABOOM. For the 1911, I don't think I would get that sign, I would just go over the limit and ....

There is only one powder you posses that is a possibility and I wouldn't use it because I have loaded 45Super with it before and didn't like the results. I would buy a different powder if I decide to do this.

Outer Rondacker
11-16-2012, 17:33
1. Marlin Model 45
2. Yes
3. Not at my house

The day has ended. I will not be loading anything today. Powder is not an issue anymore as I can grab some while out shopping this weekend. Like I said was looking for something to do today but didnt work out. That is ok.

What powders would you guys use, If buying to do this? I am sure I can use up the rest of the powder on a different load some day.

RWBlue
11-16-2012, 17:48
1. Marlin Model 45
2. Yes
3. Not at my house

The day has ended. I will not be loading anything today. Powder is not an issue anymore as I can grab some while out shopping this weekend. Like I said was looking for something to do today but didnt work out. That is ok.

What powders would you guys use, If buying to do this? I am sure I can use up the rest of the powder on a different load some day.

I was under the impression that +p and Marlin 45 was a no no?

Zombie Steve
11-16-2012, 18:52
Yeah, the libs took blue first as they knew the optics of red played against them. As long as guys like you & Jack live there, it isn't a total waste. I have my own little group of patriots here, but it gets smaller ever year as the smarter ones move out. I've got to get out soon. This state is completely doomed to fail sooner than later.

Where I live in El Paso County is one of the most conservative spots on the planet... Denver and Boulder (along with the limousine liberal towns like Aspen and Vail) are just too swamped with beings.

Idiocracy - YouTube

Zombie Steve
11-16-2012, 18:53
...and to keep things on topic... .45's rule!

:rock:

fredj338
11-16-2012, 19:22
^^TRUE^^
Same here in Kommifornia. Orange County is one of the msot conservative, but that is starting to change. Man I need to get out of this frickin state.

Kentguy
11-16-2012, 21:55
NY Rebel... "What powders would you guys use..."

Looking at my Hornady manual 8th Edition, under 45 Automatic/230g XTP HP bullets you have 5 powders listed where If you load to their listed max, they have velocity numbers listed at 900 fps. That is very close to their Factory load +P ammo which is 950 fps.

Those powders are;
Unique 6.6g (max)
Power Pistol 7.1g (max)
Longshot 7.4g (max)
Silhouette 7.6g (max)
SR 4756 7.6g (max)

Now remember, Hornady tested these and acquired that velocity number from a .45 Colt Gov't Model w/5" barrel. Even if you load to and use their max load numbers, you will achieve higher velocity numbers near to or exceeding Hornady's own +P velocity numbers coming out of your Marlin model 45.

With that in mind... you can take your pick but if it were my choice... I'd go with Power Pistol, only because I have experience working with this powder in the past and not the others, and I just like it.

Your on your own now - good luck

dougader
11-20-2012, 21:55
^^TRUE^^
Same here in Kommifornia. Orange County is one of the msot conservative, but that is starting to change. Man I need to get out of this frickin state.

Eastern Oregon is red, but the densely populated areas are sickingly blue. I was thinking to move to Texas in a few years if they don't all go to infierno as well.

Blue Dot is the powder I've been using for high velocity in 45 auto and 45 Super. Standard primers only.

fredj338
11-20-2012, 23:38
Eastern Oregon is red, but the densely populated areas are sickingly blue. I was thinking to move to Texas in a few years if they don't all go to infierno as well.

Blue Dot is the powder I've been using for high velocity in 45 auto and 45 Super. Standard primers only.

Yeah, Oregon has been Kalif light for years. Other states I will not move to; Washington, Colorado, NM, or anything on the east coast, includes Florida. Montana is still my best bet, just have to pull the trigger & go.:whistling:

Zombie Steve
11-21-2012, 09:10
Spent a lot of time in Montana this year. I know what you mean, but it's starting there too. First order of business would be kicking out Ted Turner.

Think Koski would let us all in?

SARDG
11-21-2012, 10:35
Yeah, Oregon has been Kalif light for years. Other states I will not move to; includes Florida....
HEY!

...and my county carried the republican candidates for the last 2 presidential elections. Just couldn't sustain the lift of the entire state. :crying:

fredj338
11-21-2012, 10:48
HEY!

...and my county carried the republican candidates for the last 2 presidential elections. Just couldn't sustain the lift of the entire state. :crying:
Same here, Orange county always carries Rep, again, can't carry the entire state. Sure, there are conservative bastians in every state, but you start feeling like you live in Zombieland & are surrounded. You can't change it, so time to move. I already have land in Montana. Ted Turner won't live forever.:supergrin:

dougader
11-21-2012, 17:55
HEY!

...and my county carried the republican candidates for the last 2 presidential elections. Just couldn't sustain the lift of the entire state. :crying:

My county is fairly conservative, too, but like you say the other counties take the state. I wish Idaho would absorb eastern and southern Oregon.

dougader
11-21-2012, 17:56
Same here, Orange county always carries Rep, again, can't carry the entire state. Sure, there are conservative bastians in every state, but you start feeling like you live in Zombieland & are surrounded. You can't change it, so time to move. I already have land in Montana. Ted Turner won't live forever.:supergrin:

When you move, invite us over to hunt. :cool:

fredj338
11-21-2012, 23:53
When you move, invite us over to hunt. :cool:

Well, it's only 10ac so not enough to hunt on but there are some good public land areas still in Montana. My best bull elk came off public land about 10m from town.:supergrin:

Zombie Steve
11-22-2012, 00:45
Father in law got Missouri Breaks this year.... dream tag.... takes about a zillion preference points. Got nothing. Sucks, but I can't say much... I didn't get an elk this year either.

Of course, out of season, I spend a lot of time honking the horn to get them off the road.

:okie:

WiskyT
11-22-2012, 12:35
Politics isn't worth moving over as the whole country is going blue. Money is. California is broke and only has about two taxpayers left. Fred, move out before moonbeam sends you the entire bill. I heard the other taxpayer is already loading up a van.

On a good note, my state did turn back to red this time. But it's only a matter of time before the 51% takers becomes 53%. That is why I got the election so wrong. I was on here assuring everyone about how there is noway hussein could win this time now that there is no pretense of him being "moderate". I couldn't have been more wrong. The guy governed and campaigned as a full blown Communist and 51% of the country now wants that. Since that 51% is growing at a faster rate than the 49%, we are doomed. In four years, the 14 year old cooks that are in 9th grade now will be voters and the 75yo people who know what America is supposed to be will have died off.

EL_NinO619
11-27-2012, 23:23
^^TRUE^^
Same here in Kommifornia. Orange County is one of the msot conservative, but that is starting to change. Man I need to get out of this frickin state.

I feel your pain. Just let me know when you are packing the wagon, we can travel out together. I nearly lost my mind this last election.:steamed: I am in WA state right now (which is turning for the worst also) and man does it feel good shooting my rifle un-neutered. To stay on topic, I have some nosler 185 HP that I have always wanted to work up to +P loads, this black Friday at Cabelas I found one of those caliber specific reloading books, it list many +P rounds. May want to check those out. But like said before, if your using a carbine velocity's will be higher to start with. Buy a Chrono if you want to play with the high end pressures.

Bello
11-28-2012, 05:21
Try 6.5 grains of WSF under a 230 lrn; pretty damn stout load.

Zombie Steve
11-28-2012, 08:59
Try 6.5 grains of WSF under a 230 lrn; pretty damn stout load.

I use a 230 truncated cone that I cast and 6.2 grains WSF as the everyday shooter.

:thumbsup:

DanaT
12-04-2012, 17:43
Thread is a little old but

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?page=/reloaders/powderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=8&cartridge=35

8.1gr of PP has given me very near +p velocities. Alliant is showing 8.1gr w/ speer 230gr RN. They may be a little hot.

From G21:

A 230hr Hornday FMJ i measure 932 ft/sec with 7.6gr PP
230 XTP with PP I measured 917ft/sec

Ranger SXT +P out of same pistol I measured 949 ft/sec.