Barrel replacment for Glock [Archive] - Glock Talk

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norton
11-18-2012, 14:34
Those of you like me who cast, are you using replacement barrels in your Glocks?
I shoot cast bullets in my 1911 and wheel guns , but would like to shoot them in my 21.
My question-if you do shoot cast, what barrel are you using?
And what do you think of the Lone Wolf barrel?

F106 Fan
11-18-2012, 15:11
Those of you like me who cast, are you using replacement barrels in your Glocks?
I shoot cast bullets in my 1911 and wheel guns , but would like to shoot them in my 21.
My question-if you do shoot cast, what barrel are you using?
And what do you think of the Lone Wolf barrel?

I have a G21SF and I shoot lead bullets through a KKM barrel. Even the 200 gr LSWC feeds fine.

There was a lengthy thread around here not long ago on Lone Wolf barrels. There has been a problem with the tight 'match' chamber working with lead bullets because, fundamentally, they are 0.001" larger in diameter. The thead has over 500 replies so it will take a bit of reading.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1414663&highlight=lone+wolf

BTW, I had no problem feeding the LSWC into the Glock barrel either. Nor did I have any signs of leading. Nevertheless, I decided to try conventional rifling.

Richard

JBnTX
11-18-2012, 15:15
I use the original barrel in my Glock 21 to shoot cast bullets.

I shoot the Missouri Bullet Co's 230gr RNL.
http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=59&category=5&secondary=13&keywords=

The important thing is to use a hard cast bullet that properly fits the bore. This will greatly limit any leading of the barrel.

I load to what you would call "target" velocities and I've never had any problem with leading. I've fired as many as 500 rounds between barrel cleanings with no problem.

norton
11-18-2012, 16:31
I have a G21SF and I shoot lead bullets through a KKM barrel. Even the 200 gr LSWC feeds fine.

There was a lengthy thread around here not long ago on Lone Wolf barrels. There has been a problem with the tight 'match' chamber working with lead bullets because, fundamentally, they are 0.001" larger in diameter. The thead has over 500 replies so it will take a bit of reading.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1414663&highlight=lone+wolf

BTW, I had no problem feeding the LSWC into the Glock barrel either. Nor did I have any signs of leading. Nevertheless, I decided to try conventional rifling.

Richard

Richard
Thanks for the heads up. I am plowing through the thread right now, in between watching the Colts lose and the Sprint Cup final race.
Neal

billy b
11-18-2012, 16:36
i was hesitent to shoot lead bullets out of my 21sf with stock barrel. i started out slowly, & now shoot lead out of it all the time. surprising thing is that it shoots lead as good as my range officer.

Arc Angel
11-18-2012, 16:53
I use the original barrel in my Glock 21 to shoot cast bullets.

I shoot the Missouri Bullet Co's 230gr RNL.
http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=59&category=5&secondary=13&keywords=

The important thing is to use a hard cast bullet that properly fits the bore. This will greatly limit any leading of the barrel.

I load to what you would call "target" velocities and I've never had any problem with leading. I've fired as many as 500 rounds between barrel cleanings with no problem.

^^^^ Knows what he is talking about! :thumbsup:

Colorado4Wheel
11-18-2012, 18:11
Anything but Lone Wolf. Storm Lake or KKM.

michael e
11-18-2012, 19:30
22 Glocks, all of them factory barrels with hard cast. Couple have never seen a FMJ round.

Uncle Don
11-18-2012, 20:09
I chose Storm Lake and and has been said, didn't chamber a lead bullet well so I sent it to them and they opened it up for me at no cost. It's worked perfect since.

Bullseye25
11-18-2012, 20:53
I have storm lake, lone wolf, and Jarvis barrels in my Glocks. All have functioned flawlessly with lead and jacketed

ken grant
11-18-2012, 21:34
Home cast bullets with wheelweights,shot as they come out of a Lee Six Cav. mold, lubed with Liquid Alox.

Glock 21, Glock 21SF, Glock 30, Glock 23 and G27. All with stock barrels.

They don't lead anymore than my 1911's.
I do check them every couple hundred rds.

WeeWilly
11-18-2012, 22:21
I also shoot cast out of all my Glocks, 9mm, 40S&W, 10mm, 45 Auto. Many, many thousands of rounds.

I get a little leading in some of the models with some of the bullets I use (I don't cast my own, yet..), but no more than any of my 1911's, revolvers, etc.

As stated already, bullet fit is most important, lube next. I run gas checks in my hot 10mm loads.

Arc Angel
11-19-2012, 05:02
22 Glocks, all of them factory barrels with hard cast. Couple have never seen a FMJ round.

:shocked: Really! That's quite some record. What do the rest of us have to do in order to get you to tell more about how you do it? ;)

alwaysshootin
11-19-2012, 08:07
i was hesitent to shoot lead bullets out of my 21sf with stock barrel. i started out slowly, & now shoot lead out of it all the time. surprising thing is that it shoots lead as good as my range officer.

Same here! On my third G21, and not one of them had problems with shooting lead.

If you decide on getting a different barrel, don't hesitate getting a Lone Wolf. I have three, and all shoot flawlessly!

Owned two Storm lake barrels, and as another mentioned, had to be sent back to have the chambers opened up to shoot my reloads.

Consider this, if you are buying an after market barrel, to shoot less expensive bullets, why would you pay for a much more expensive barrel to achieve your goal? Especially, when the least expensive barrel, "Lone Wolf" is satisfaction guaranteed! :dunno:

DoctaGlockta
11-19-2012, 08:33
I have shot lead (MBC) out of my stock Glock barrels with no issues.

I did buy a LWD threaded barrel for my G30sf and have had no issues with my reloads. That barrel has stayed in the pistol and I have no reason to remove it for now.

Good luck.

serger
11-19-2012, 08:33
I've got a Storm Lake 9mm barrel for one of the 23's. It runs fine and I've never had any problems using my 124gr cast bullets. My mould is a Lee 6 cavity. I use liquid alox and after they dry a bit I powder with talcum powder. Runs in the Tokarev,Browning Hipower and that 23. I suppose I should look and see if those loads would run in a 17/19. I just took the word of the "smart guys" and assumed you couldn't shoot cast in a Factory Glock barrel. Maybe I spent a hundred bucks I didn't need to.

KenInColorado
11-19-2012, 09:12
I have a Wilson Combat barrel for my 22. I love it, it's a lot more accurate than my stock barrel with jacketed bullets, and it shoots my lead bullet reloads to the same point of aim and is very accurate with them. Typical Wilson quality.

dkf
11-19-2012, 09:33
Consider this, if you are buying an after market barrel, to shoot less expensive bullets, why would you pay for a much more expensive barrel to achieve your goal? Especially, when the least expensive barrel, "Lone Wolf" is satisfaction guaranteed! :dunno:Because considering what the bullets cost vs the barrel spending $30 more for a better quality American made barrel that works better with cast bullets (in most cases) makes a lot of sense. Plus no spending extra $$$ to blind mark mark a barrel with KKM or Storm Lake to avoid a stupid logo that maybe 3 people actually like.

Anyway if you are really concerned about saving money don't buy an aftermarket barrel to begin with when it is proven that the stock Glock barrel can shoot cast bullets fine.

Colorado4Wheel
11-19-2012, 09:37
i could never get lead to work in my G34. Barrel. Fast powder, slow powder (tried several). Different sizes (even unsized). Nothing worked. I think the barrel is defective. When I push a patch through it mine is tight on both the ends but kinda loose in the middle. So don't feel like you did something wrong if it doesn't work. But I would try it at see. Use a medium to slow speed powder to start with. A boolit at least .001" larger then FMJ and work it up to a mid level charge to start with.

DoctaGlockta
11-19-2012, 09:54
Because considering what the bullets cost vs the barrel spending $30 more for a better quality American made barrel that works better with cast bullets (in most cases) makes a lot of sense. Plus no spending extra $$$ to blind mark mark a barrel with KKM or Storm Lake to avoid a stupid logo that maybe 3 people actually like.

Anyway if you are really concerned about saving money don't buy an aftermarket barrel to begin with when it is proven that the stock Glock barrel can shoot cast bullets fine.

As a consumer that did irk me a bit. Nickel and dime stuff. But it didn't stop me from ordering.

FLSlim
11-19-2012, 11:13
Stock barrel in 17, 26, and 30. I started shooting just 50 or so and checked for leading. I've never had an issue, but this certainly could vary by barrel and type of lead bullet.

Bluescot
11-19-2012, 11:37
I've had bad luck with the LWD barrels even after they were sent back to the shop for a ream job. ( See the lengthy thread)

My G30 and G27 now sport KKM barrels and they are functioning great. I would highly recommend them.

If I had a new Glock pistol today, I would start out shooting lead through the factory barrel and see how things worked out. If leading becomes a factor I would look at KKM and perhaps some other aftermarket makers but would stay away from LWD.

Those two Glocks of mine mentioned above would lead quite a bit with the supply of cast bullets that I had. It could have been the bullets being too soft but I doubt that. I had acquired around 7,000 bullets through some trading of lino-type that someone gave me and was kind of stuck with those bullets to use. Again the caster of those bullets seemed to be using materials that would make them hard enough but those two Glocks would lead up fairly good.

judgecrater
11-19-2012, 14:40
Been using lead out of my G17 and G21 for some time. Recently put in a KKM in the 9mm and groups improved quite a bit. The stock barrels do lead up but I use Chore Boy wrapped around a brass brush to clean them out. I will be trying a couple of LW barrels in my G21 in a couple of weeks and will be posting results. They are back ordered at this time.

OldLincoln
11-19-2012, 22:41
i was hesitent to shoot lead bullets out of my 21sf with stock barrel. i started out slowly, & now shoot lead out of it all the time. surprising thing is that it shoots lead as good as my range officer.
You shot your range officer?!!!!!!

dla
11-20-2012, 00:58
Those of you like me who cast, are you using replacement barrels in your Glocks?
I shoot cast bullets in my 1911 and wheel guns , but would like to shoot them in my 21.
My question-if you do shoot cast, what barrel are you using?
And what do you think of the Lone Wolf barrel?

You don't need a different barrel. You might want one, but you don't need one.

alwaysshootin
11-20-2012, 09:43
Anyway if you are really concerned about saving money don't buy an aftermarket barrel to begin with when it is proven that the stock Glock barrel can shoot cast bullets fine.

Not true! I can personally attest to 2, G23's, 1, G29, and 2, G20's that didn't care for lead whatsoever! 5 shots of hard cast, and rifleing was almost covered. Of course I can vouch for a dozen others, mostly in 9MM, and 45 ACP that shot lead just fine!

As far as barrels go, buy what you want. I've been completely satisfied with Lone Wolf, and to tell the truth it urinates me off to even have to buy them, especially to just shoot lead. Of course the two that I presently own are for other reasons. One is for conversion of 40 to 9, and the other is to achieve the minimum 5" length requirement for hunting here in Ohio. Again, can't be happier with either of my Lone Wolf barrels results! Just glad I didn't have to spend more!:supergrin:

JBnTX
11-20-2012, 13:29
Not true! I can personally attest to 2, G23's, 1, G29, and 2, G20's that didn't care for lead whatsoever! 5 shots of hard cast, and rifleing was almost covered.


The problem was the ammo, not the barrel.

An improper bullet to barrel fit, or the bullet velocity was either too fast or too slow to allow proper obturation, was probably the cause.

Shoot hard cast bullets, that are properly sized to the bore, at a reasonable velocity and you'll never have a problem in Glock barrels.



The Differences between 'Lead' Bullets and 'Hard Cast' Bullets
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=54

"Generally speaking, a properly designed, sized and lubed hard cast bullet will not leave lead alloy deposits in a rifled barrel, but pure lead bullets will almost always foul a barrel to the point of a total loss of accuracy (with very few rounds fired) and perhaps to the point that the barrel will split or worse."

..

Boxerglocker
11-20-2012, 14:02
Anyway if you are really concerned about saving money don't buy an aftermarket barrel to begin with when it is proven that the stock Glock barrel can shoot cast bullets fine.

Proven by whom? The guy that shoots 50 rounds or so and checks his barrel? I hear and have read on the internet lots of testimonies from individuals that say its fine just shoot away but have only read one article of proof that has any weight in my eyes. In Robin Taylors " The Glock in Competition"

Duane Thomas, WA native, 5 gun IDPA Master and someone I have squadded with personally and discussed the topic in says it very eloquently in his review of the book.

“The Exploding Glock, Fact or Fiction?” This is a reprint of an article written by a licensed PE (Professional Engineer) who investigates accidents and failures for a living, detailing his experiment in which he hooked up a Glock 22 .40 to a pressure-testing device and fed it a diet of lead ammo until it blew up.It’s well known among Glock fans that the polygonal rifling in Glock barrels causes heavy barrel fouling with attendant high pressures when fed lead ammo. What will absolutely shock you about this chapter is just how swiftly pressures rise, and how few rounds of lead ammo it takes for pressures to rise into the danger area.

I ain't afraid to admit it, shooting the number of rounds I do through a Glock OEM using lead bullets concerns me. I don't want to have to check my barrel every 50 or even 100 rounds. I have seen first hand the results of a exploding barrel not fun.

Boxerglocker
11-20-2012, 14:10
The problem was the ammo, not the barrel.

An improper bullet to barrel fit, or the bullet velocity was either too fast or too slow to allow proper obturation, was probably the cause.

Shoot hard cast bullets, that are properly sized to the bore, at a reasonable velocity and you'll never have a problem in Glock barrels.



The Differences between 'Lead' Bullets and 'Hard Cast' Bullets
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=54

"Generally speaking, a properly designed, sized and lubed hard cast bullet will not leave lead alloy deposits in a rifled barrel, but pure lead bullets will almost always foul a barrel to the point of a total loss of accuracy (with very few rounds fired) and perhaps to the point that the barrel will split or worse."

..

He stated HARD CAST.

Not true! I can personally attest to 2, G23's, 1, G29, and 2, G20's that didn't care for lead whatsoever! 5 shots of hard cast, and rifleing was almost covered. Of course I can vouch for a dozen others, mostly in 9MM, and 45 ACP that shot lead just fine!


So what the minimum Brinell hardness and maximum velocity required to support your statement?

JBnTX
11-20-2012, 15:05
He stated HARD CAST.



So what the minimum Brinell hardness and maximum velocity required to support your statement?

I shoot Missouri Bullets with a Brinell hardness of 18. I use only Missouri Bullets because they list the BHN number on every box.

I've fired thousands of rounds of hard cast lead bullets through a G21 and a G20 without a single problem. I used to shoot hard cast lead through a G17, but found the 9mm more accurate with jacketed bullets.

I'm terrible at cleaning my Glocks and many times several hundreds of rounds are fired without cleaning. Still no problems.

I think that many people do not understand the difference between lead and hard cast lead.

I would not dare under any circumstances shoot plain soft lead bullets in any stock Glock barrel.

That would be recipe for disaster in just a few rounds.

Anyone considering shooting hard cast lead through a stock Glock barrel needs to first educate themselves about exactly what causes leading in a barrel, lead hardness, bullet/barrel fit and the obturation of the bullet as it's fired.

..

dkf
11-20-2012, 15:09
Proven by whom? The guy that shoots 50 rounds or so and checks his barrel? I hear and have read on the internet lots of testimonies from individuals that say its fine just shoot away but have only read one article of proof that has any weight in my eyes. In Robin Taylors " The Glock in Competition"

Duane Thomas, WA native, 5 gun IDPA Master and someone I have squadded with personally and discussed the topic in says it very eloquently in his review of the book.

“The Exploding Glock, Fact or Fiction?” This is a reprint of an article written by a licensed PE (Professional Engineer) who investigates accidents and failures for a living, detailing his experiment in which he hooked up a Glock 22 .40 to a pressure-testing device and fed it a diet of lead ammo until it blew up.It’s well known among Glock fans that the polygonal rifling in Glock barrels causes heavy barrel fouling with attendant high pressures when fed lead ammo. What will absolutely shock you about this chapter is just how swiftly pressures rise, and how few rounds of lead ammo it takes for pressures to rise into the danger area.

I ain't afraid to admit it, shooting the number of rounds I do through a Glock OEM using lead bullets concerns me. I don't want to have to check my barrel every 50 or even 100 rounds. I have seen first hand the results of a exploding barrel not fun. So one "engineer" takes one or a couple loads and gets a result and that is some kind of definitive test in your book. Don't know how good of an "engineer" he is but I have met and worked with so many clueless hack engineers that I do not put the faith in them as a whole. Just because one is an engineer does not mean you know crap about what you are engineering or testing.

The .45acp is known to do pretty well with Glock barrels and yes it is proven to me by all the guys that successfully shoot them. Thought this thread was primarily about the .45acp. You can keep buying aftermarket barrels to shoot lead (and still can build up with lead) if you want I could really care less. Your money.

I am sure all the people that have successfully shot cast bullets in Glock barrels posting up load data, target pics with groupings and etc are all just part of some great conspiracy of liers to defraud the benevelant engineer.:rofl:

So what the minimum Brinell hardness and maximum velocity required to support your statement?And what were the sizes of the bullets? You want to just throw a load together and run it, just stick with a jacketed bullet.

WiskyT
11-20-2012, 17:32
You don't have to be an engineer to prove that lead bullets can be shot in Glock barrels. My father was a field engineer (electrical). We shot lead bullets together through our Glocks, he just didn't proclaim himself some type of internet expert on it based on his degree from NCE (now NJIT).

There is a lot of focus on hardness and size. Jack would make some low-brow comment at this point in the conversation. Anyway, those are important. But, what is also important, maybe more important, is powder choice. You can't drive a lead bullet at 1,200fps at 35kpsi with a fast powder and not get leading no matter what size or BHN your bullets are. Since that's what most people try to do, they fail. If you want a full velocity 9 or 40 load, you have to use a slower powder like Unique or similar.

You can lead up any gun or barrel. Hercules used to list a top end load for Bullseye and a 158 lead bullet in 357 Magnum. I tired it, it was horrible. My GP100 was leaded so bad it looked like one of mikael moorski's arteries after a dozen rounds. It was safe from a pressure standpoint, so Hercules published the load. It was unusable from a practical standpoint.

The 500SW magnum has a polygonal barrel and Corbon sells cast loads for it. Corbon developed the 500SW round in partnership with SW. If you can't shoot lead bullets through a poly barrel safely, would SW and Corbon have developed a gun and ammo combo that does just that?

Aftermarket barrels in Glocks are like premium gas, a complete waste of money.

alwaysshootin
11-20-2012, 17:47
The problem was the ammo, not the barrel.
..

Two months ago, I owned two G29's, and two G20's. One of each, shoots my hard cast reloads fine, the other, of each, leaded the barrel. You are correct, it must be the ammo! Not the inconsistency between barrels. Also,to add, there is no difference in factory barrels in the area of chamber support. It's on bad brass that causes bulging in some!

WiskyT
11-20-2012, 17:52
Two months ago, I owned two G29's, and two G20's. One of each, shoots my hard cast reloads fine, the other, of each, leaded the barrel. You are correct, it must be the ammo! Not the inconsistency between barrels. Also,to add, there is no difference in factory barrels in the area of chamber support. It's on bad brass that causes bulging in some!

It's that kind of thinking that had Columbus calling Native Americans "Indians".

dkf
11-20-2012, 18:09
The 500SW magnum has a polygonal barrel and Corbon sells cast loads for it. Corbon developed the 500SW round in partnership with SW. If you can't shoot lead bullets through a poly barrel safely, would SW and Corbon have developed a gun and ammo combo that does just that?

I did not know those SWs used poly rifling. Of course I never had use of such a beast, .44mag did what I needed.

Boxerglocker
11-20-2012, 18:14
So one "engineer" takes one or a couple loads and gets a result and that is some kind of definitive test in your book. Don't know how good of an "engineer" he is but I have met and worked with so many clueless hack engineers that I do not put the faith in them as a whole. Just because one is an engineer does not mean you know crap about what you are engineering or testing.

The .45acp is known to do pretty well with Glock barrels and yes it is proven to me by all the guys that successfully shoot them. Thought this thread was primarily about the .45acp. You can keep buying aftermarket barrels to shoot lead (and still can build up with lead) if you want I could really care less. Your money.

I am sure all the people that have successfully shot cast bullets in Glock barrels posting up load data, target pics with groupings and etc are all just part of some great conspiracy of liers to defraud the benevelant engineer.:rofl:

And what were the sizes of the bullets? You want to just throw a load together and run it, just stick with a jacketed bullet.

First of all, before you deem someone a "Hack" have you even read the confines of the test, understand the equipment used and data recorded? Secondly, I never stated lead bullets couldn't be successfully shot out of a Glock barrel. Done it myself several times. I just don't believe that the risk is worth taking for the amount of rounds I personally put through a barrel. Lastly, I never stated anyone was a liar. Therefore would appreciate you refraining from the comments that I am inciting to do so.

dkf
11-20-2012, 18:31
First of all, before you deem someone a "Hack" have you even read the confines of the test, understand the equipment used and data recorded? Secondly, I never stated lead bullets couldn't be successfully shot out of a Glock barrel. Done it myself several times. I just don't believe that the risk is worth taking for the amount of rounds I personally put through a barrel. Lastly, I never stated anyone was a liar. Therefore would appreciate you refraining from the comments that I am inciting to do so.

First of all you got some reading comprehension issues to work on.

Here is the article you talked about.(btw wheres the test data?)
http://www.dillonprecision.com/docs/june_08_p53.pdf

He kept shooting cast lead loads in the gun (knowing they are leading) until the gun blew up. Wow OMG what a scientific genius. Guess it is good thing we clean our barrels and watch for leading. So I take it he concluded a traditional rifled barrel will not do the same with loads that severely lead the barrel?

Boxerglocker
11-20-2012, 19:17
First of all you got some reading comprehension issues to work on.

Here is the article you talked about.(btw wheres the test data?)
http://www.dillonprecision.com/docs/june_08_p53.pdf

He kept shooting cast lead loads in the gun (knowing they are leading) until the gun blew up. Wow OMG what a scientific genius. Guess it is good thing we clean our barrels and watch for leading. So I take it he concluded a traditional rifled barrel will not do the same with loads that severely lead the barrel?
My reading comprehension is great. I quoted a statement of a reviewer not the book chapter.
Again have read the actual book and the data? Not the article... If you did you would see that in a controlled experiment. Repeated more than once proved that in as little as 5 shots you could lead a barrel tons point where pressures where unsafe. Yes, we as experienced reloaders have the hind sight to be aware of possible issues. Based on the bullet used, velocity, etc.
The question is can you without doubt know that using a stock polygon Glock barrel, arbitrarily pick any lead bullet load and ensure that you are within safe pressure ranges?
BTW not trying to start a personal pissing match here. If you or anyone else would like to read the actual data. I own the book and would be happy to lend it out for you to read it yourself. It gives specifics to the test criteria and mimics what could the results of not being aware.

Bluescot
11-20-2012, 19:23
An interesting test to look at would be to see if a brand new stock Glock barrel would lead up faster or slower than a Glock barrel that had 1,000's of jacketed bullets shot through it.

I wonder if the caliber selected for such a test would affect the findings ???

dkf
11-20-2012, 19:25
My reading comprehension is great. I quoted a statement of a reviewer not the book chapter.
Again have read the actual book and the data? Not the article... If you did you would see that in a controlled experiment. Repeated more than once proved that in as little as 5 shots you could lead a barrel tons point where pressures where unsafe. Yes, we as experienced reloaders have the hind sight to be aware of possible issues. Based on the bullet used, velocity, etc.
The question is can you without doubt know that using a stock polygon Glock barrel, arbitrarily pick any lead bullet load and ensure that you are within safe pressure ranges?Nope didn't read the authors book, not going out and buying a copy to read it either. I already know I am good to shoot cast bullets in a Glock barrels so. I also would not put much faith in an author that can't even figure out that the 9mm is a higher pressure round than the .40.:dunno:

If you are looking for guarantees, always knowns and safety you sure picked the wrong hobby my friend.

Anyway. No hard feelings.

Boxerglocker
11-20-2012, 19:48
Nope didn't read the authors book, not going out and buying a copy to read it either. I already know I am good to shoot cast bullets in a Glock barrels so. I also would not put much faith in an author that can't even figure out that the 9mm is a higher pressure round than the .40.:dunno:

If you are looking for guarantees, always knowns and safety you sure picked the wrong hobby my friend.

Yes, I am always looking for the highest percentages of knowns to as best I can guarantee safety. Why would you not? I don't dispute yours nor any others success in using lead in Glock polygon barrels. So far I just haven't seen anyone using lead bullets in a Glock with the same criteria of use as myself. 300 round sessions once a week, cleaning every 2000 rounds.

WiskyT
11-20-2012, 19:55
Yes, I am always looking for the highest percentages of knowns to as best I can guarantee safety. Why would you not? I don't dispute yours nor any others success in using lead in Glock polygon barrels. So far I just haven't seen anyone using lead bullets in a Glock with the same criteria of use as myself. 300 round sessions once a week, cleaning every 2000 rounds.

You're in a group think world of shooters. When one changes holsters, they all go out and get the same holster within 3 months. They all wear the same hat. If TGO wore spandex pants they all would start wearing spandex pants.

BTW, not wanting to clean your gun more than once every 7 weeks is a real good criteria to use when determining if a ammunition/gun combo is risky.

dkf
11-20-2012, 20:02
So far I just haven't seen anyone using lead bullets in a Glock with the same criteria of use as myself. 300 round sessions once a week, cleaning every 2000 rounds.

You are better off sticking with plated or jacketed then, no question. There is tradeoff with everything no matter what. You pay less for cast bullets but you are required to do more cleaning, that for the most part is with both polygonal or traditional rifled barrels. It all boils down to what is acceptable to you.

I don't compete so I don't shoot only one gun all the time. I will be shooting sometimes 2 or 3 guns when I go to the range so round count before cleaning is really not an issue for me. I like to keep up practice with all my carry guns if possible. A packed work schedule can sometimes take a bite out of that though.

Boxerglocker
11-20-2012, 20:10
You're in a group think world of shooters. When one changes holsters, they all go out and get the same holster within 3 months. They all wear the same hat. If TGO wore spandex pants they all would start wearing spandex pants.

BTW, not wanting to clean your gun more than once every 7 weeks is a real good criteria to use when determining if a ammunition/gun combo is risky.
There's no requirement for me to do a thorough deep cleaning every outing. I don't scrub barrels unless accuracy deteriorates, no need in either my hand or longguns. My barrels dont lead using moly bullets. All I need to do is run adry patch through it, wipe the outside and lube. After over 40k should I change the routine now?
I've run the same Bladetech holster for IDPA, USPSA and now 3gun for almost 10 years. So much for the stereotype.

WiskyT
11-20-2012, 20:15
There's no requirement for me to do a thorough deep cleaning every outing. I don't scrub barrels unless accuracy deteriorates, no need in either my hand or longguns. My barrels dont lead using moly bullets. All I need to do is run adry patch through it, wipe the outside and lube. After over 40k should I change the routine now?
I've run the same Bladetech holster for IDPA, USPSA and now 3gun for almost 10 years. So much for the stereotype.

You're moving around way too much here. The topic is whether an aftermarket barrel is needed. You bring up an internet legendary engineer, then talk about how your cleaning regimen doesn't permit you to do it, then you say you don't get leading.

F106 Fan
11-20-2012, 20:57
You're in a group think world of shooters. When one changes holsters, they all go out and get the same holster within 3 months. They all wear the same hat. If TGO wore spandex pants they all would start wearing spandex pants.



Trap shooters think like this!

As to replacement barrels, I didn't know which side of the debate to come down on. I tested S&S Casting 200 gr LSWC through my G21SF and I didn't notice any leading. But the test was only a hundred rounds or so.

My guess is that with MY barrel and MY loads, leading isn't an issue. But it's pretty much a guess.

So, I bought the KKM replacement barrel and I think I feel better. What little I have shot through the KKM doesn't appear to show leading either.

Rather than ask for someone else's opinion, I just went ahead and bought the barrel. In the big scheme of things, the cost of the barrel is insignificant. More important, it closes the debate for me. I won't give it another thought.

Everybody has to make their own decision and be comfortable with the results. Whichever side they come down on...

Richard

Colorado4Wheel
11-20-2012, 21:16
I cast my own bullets. Every batch of lead is different. With a KKM barrel I have less chance that the change alloy is going to be a issue. For me that is enough to use the KKM. I know plenty of shooters using a KKM with jacketed. Especially S&W shooters. Sometimes you just want to own a really good barrel. Even if the difference is slight.

F106 Fan
11-20-2012, 23:11
Sometimes you just want to own a really good barrel. Even if the difference is slight.

A long time ago, I installed a Barstow barrel in a Colt Government Model (Series 70). The gun didn't shoot any better because I didn't shoot any better. Any gun and any barrel is going to shoot better than me!

My stock G21SF shoots very well. If I can just keep my focus on the front sight it will hit what I expect every time. IF ... Always the big IF...

Richard

Colorado4Wheel
11-21-2012, 04:07
Link Clacker.

emb111
11-21-2012, 07:44
I'm looking to replace the barrel in my 30 and am still shopping. Primarily, I buy my lead bullets from Missouri Bullet. Now, I don't pretend to thoroughly understand how or why leading occurs. However, I do understand that leading is caused by using improper bullets with improper hardness. I just follow the bullet manufacturer's recommendations.

For example I shot some Winchester LRN bullets (cowboy action stuff) in my 45 Black Hawk that were in the back of my safe from pre-reloading days. OMG! After 50 rounds the lead came out in sheets, and I'm not exaggerating. Later, I loaded rounds using the recommended Missouri bullet. No leading issue at all. I reload Missouri bullets in 380, 38, 357, 9mm and 45 ACP (for my 1911) without leading issues. I've used other bullet manufacturers in those calibers too without issue. I don't think that I will ever shoot a factory lead round again.

My question is this: How much of the "Glock Kaboom" issue and Glock's warning is based upon the simple fact that Glock could have no way of knowing what bullet you will be using that may or may not cause leading issues so they simply state a universal don't use them. From the comments I looks like I can stick with the OEM barrel and use my money for other upgrades and accessories.

It's not that I want or have to shoot lead for any particular reason. Having the option, however would be nice. I don't want to replace a barrel if it's just a matter or bullet choice.

Thanks.

JBnTX
11-21-2012, 08:01
My question is this: How much of the "Glock Kaboom" issue and Glock's warning is based upon the simple fact that Glock could have no way of knowing what bullet you will be using that may or may not cause leading issues so they simply state a universal don't use them.

Thanks.

You are correct.

Glock warns against lead bullets because there are no established industry standards covering private reloads, and many commercial reloaders use lead that's too soft for Glock barrels. Hence the warning.

If shooting hard cast lead bullets in a Glock is such a sin, then why haven't any of my Glocks blown up?

Arc Angel
11-21-2012, 08:12
^^^^ +1 :thumbsup:

dkf
11-21-2012, 08:22
I'm looking to replace the barrel in my 30 and am still shopping. Primarily, I buy my lead bullets from Missouri Bullet. Now, I don't pretend to thoroughly understand how or why leading occurs. However, I do understand that leading is caused by using improper bullets with improper hardness. I just follow the bullet manufacturer's recommendations.

For example I shot some Winchester LRN bullets (cowboy action stuff) in my 45 Black Hawk that were in the back of my safe from pre-reloading days. OMG! After 50 rounds the lead came out in sheets, and I'm not exaggerating. Later, I loaded rounds using the recommended Missouri bullet. No leading issue at all. I reload Missouri bullets in 380, 38, 357, 9mm and 45 ACP (for my 1911) without leading issues. I've used other bullet manufacturers in those calibers too without issue. I don't think that I will ever shoot a factory lead round again.

My question is this: How much of the "Glock Kaboom" issue and Glock's warning is based upon the simple fact that Glock could have no way of knowing what bullet you will be using that may or may not cause leading issues so they simply state a universal don't use them. From the comments I looks like I can stick with the OEM barrel and use my money for other upgrades and accessories.

It's not that I want or have to shoot lead for any particular reason. Having the option, however would be nice. I don't want to replace a barrel if it's just a matter or bullet choice.

Thanks.

Bullet hardness is really only one part of the equation. Powder, bullet size, barrel, velocity (to name a few) are variables that can cause issues with cast bullets.

A jacketed bullet (which SAAMI highly recognizes) is just more "plug and play" and practically all the ammo from the major manufacturers for the calibers Glocks are chambered in are not loads that use cast bullets. Jacketed bullets are the norm. If I was Glock I would recommend the same thing because you are opening yourself up for liability by promoting using cast bullets in your guns. Not everyone has the same know how and experience. Notice Glock does not promote using reloads either. I don't blame them really. This is a "play at your own risk" type of deal we are in.:wavey: