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G-34
11-18-2012, 17:34
115 grain +p+ 1450 FPS and 501 ft/lbs!!!! HOLY ****:faint::faint::faint::faint::faint:


Underwood 9mm 115 gr +P+ JHP Ammo Test - YouTube

WiskyT
11-18-2012, 17:37
Does it shoot 158 grainers at 1500fps?

G-34
11-18-2012, 17:39
Does it shoot 158 grainers at 1500fps?




...that it does not do,,,, but energy wise its neck and neck with 357

what do your 158 grainers come in at energy wise?

uz2bUSMC
11-18-2012, 17:41
...that it does not do,,,, but energy wise its neck and neck with 357

what do your 158 grainers come in at energy wise?

Man, you're probably gonna get lit up soon. You might wanna just go look at .357 mag energy numbers at UW or Buff Bore...

G-34
11-18-2012, 17:45
Man, you're probably gonna get lit up soon. .


oh well. you know the saying, sticks and stones

G-34
11-18-2012, 17:47
......yea i may have jumped the gun a little before posting,

have at me boys i probably deserve it,

still impressive for 9mm tho


flamesuit on! :wavey:

LASTRESORT20
11-18-2012, 17:50
Great video ...Thanks for the share.

uz2bUSMC
11-18-2012, 17:51
......yea i may have jumped the gun a little before posting,

have at me boys i probably deserve it,

still impressive for 9mm tho


flamesuit on! :wavey:

You'll be ok.

G-34
11-18-2012, 17:52
Great video ...Thanks for the share.



welcome, sir/maam

G-34
11-18-2012, 17:53
the 9mm underwood out did this 357 mag

in BOTH velocity AND energy

Underwood .357 Magnum 158 gr Gold Dot Ammo Gel Test - YouTube

uz2bUSMC
11-18-2012, 18:00
Yep, in that test. I've really been wanting to use one of these > :popcorn:

oldman11
11-18-2012, 18:02
Does it shoot 158 grainers at 1500fps?
No it doesn't.:whistling:

WiskyT
11-18-2012, 18:06
...that it does not do,,,, but energy wise its neck and neck with 357

what do your 158 grainers come in at energy wise?

789 ft/lbs

clarkz71
11-18-2012, 18:11
789>501

G-34
11-18-2012, 18:13
789>501



789!? i wouldnt want to be on the receiving end of that:faint::wow:

WinterWizard
11-18-2012, 18:29
And per usual with 9mm bullets pushed beyond their velocity limits, the penetration sucks.

Also, 501 ft/lbs doesn't come close to full power .357 Magnum loads. Shoot some 125gr Buffalo Bore .357 loads @ 1700 fps and tell me if these 115gr Underwood loads come close. I'll save you the time: they don't.

Sorry, this thread is a fail.

Berto
11-18-2012, 18:35
Corbon used to load a 115gr +P+ .38sp that did over 1400fps in a 4" revolver.
They also loaded a +P 110gr .38sp that did over 1410fps in a snubby...

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9596


Those Underwoods are hot, but it's been done before in 9mm and .38sp.

glock_19guy1983
11-18-2012, 19:05
I would love to know what kind of powder Kevin is using in those. I wonder what they could run a 38 super up to if they tried.

bobtheelf
11-18-2012, 21:15
115 grain +p+ 1450 FPS and 501 ft/lbs!!!! HOLY ****:faint::faint::faint::faint::faint:


Underwood's .357 Sig JHPs are 125 grain at 1475 FPS...604 ft/lbs.

Just sayin'.:whistling:

That said, pretty impressive for 9mm!

SDGlock23
11-19-2012, 08:14
My Gp100 just threw some handload 158gr bullets an average of 1535 fps for 827 ft-lbs of energy. Compared to the fast 115gr 9mm, it's 40+ grains heavier yet still faster, has considerably better sectional density and will penetrate a lot better as well. The 9mm is a good option, but it's not a .357 Magnum.

SCmasterblaster
11-19-2012, 08:37
1430 FPS from a G19? It likely hits 1500 from a G17. Awesome.

SCmasterblaster
11-19-2012, 08:41
My Gp100 just threw some handload 158gr bullets an average of 1535 fps for 827 ft-lbs of energy. Compared to the fast 115gr 9mm, it's 40+ grains heavier yet still faster, has considerably better sectional density and will penetrate a lot better as well. The 9mm is a good option, but it's not a .357 Magnum.

You are quite correct, sir. A casual examination of the cartridge cases confirms this. :cool:

unit1069
11-19-2012, 10:20
And per usual with 9mm bullets pushed beyond their velocity limits, the penetration sucks.

When I was new to firearms (not that long ago) I got caught up in velocity/energy numbers without knowing that it's the total cartridge and bullet design that creates effectiveness.

I feel quite comfortable with 9mm for self-defense and although I am currently carrying a +P round I also would feel good about carrying a standard pressure round like HST or Gold Dot, among others.

clarkstoncz
11-19-2012, 10:33
Energy seems to be the real key to stopping power.

A .357 SIG, or .357 Magnum that has only 200 foot pounds of energy would be a dismal stopper.

SCmasterblaster
11-19-2012, 13:20
I don't care who it is, or how hard they try - they'll never get the 9x19 cartridge to propel a 158gr SJHP at 1400-1500 FPS. The barrel length won't matter, either.

oldman11
11-19-2012, 15:50
I don't care who it is, or how hard they try - they'll never get the 9x19 cartridge to propel a 158gr SJHP at 1400-1500 FPS. The barrel length won't matter, either.
I'm sure you already know this, but I wish to reiterate. 9mm owners are very defensive about their guns. In their own minds the 9mm round is every bit as good as any other round out there despite proof to the opposite. It's a pride of ownership thing

Chesafreak
11-19-2012, 16:02
9 inches of penetration doesn't come close to equalling .357. Most likely would have had worse penetration after punching through clothes AND ribs. I personally would choose a 124gr +P Gold Dot over this +P+ load any day. That great expansion does nothing for you if it can't reach vital organs after hitting bone, like after going through an arm before hitting the chest. No thanks.

unit1069
11-19-2012, 17:33
I'm sure you already know this, but I wish to reiterate. 9mm owners are very defensive about their guns. In their own minds the 9mm round is every bit as good as any other round out there despite proof to the opposite. It's a pride of ownership thing

While I agree that some 9mm owners fit your description don't believe most of them do.

My own thinking is that with the advances in bullet technology over the past two decades the effectiveness of 9mm has been greatly enhanced, not that it wasn't dropping felons and enemy combatants for one hundred years prior to that.

fredj338
11-19-2012, 18:34
Yeah, if you believe the vel numbers, there still is that pesky Sectional density thing. The short for caliber 9mm just isn't going to have the same penetration as a 125gr 357 @ the same vel, bullet design being the same. Some are really impressed w/ the energy numbers light & fast have but unless the bullet makes it into the vitals, it doesnt' mean a lot & for handgun, erngy number diff just aren't taht big a deal. So 400# vs 500#, so what?

Zombie Steve
11-19-2012, 18:40
Which one you suppose gonna hold more powder?

http://www.sff.net/people/sanders/ammo.jpg

Damn physics... :steamed:

Bren
11-19-2012, 18:49
115 grain +p+ 1450 FPS and 501 ft/lbs!!!! HOLY ****:faint::faint::faint::faint::faint:


Underwood 9mm 115 gr +P+ JHP Ammo Test - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ7ri9wa728)


So the theory here is that the only reason 9mm didn't measure up to .357 is we just never realized you could load up 9mm to 1400+ fps, huh?

Gosh, why didn't we ever think of that?:upeyes:

Not a good idea.

Bren
11-19-2012, 18:51
I'm sure you already know this, but I wish to reiterate. 9mm owners are very defensive about their guns. In their own minds the 9mm round is every bit as good as any other round out there despite proof to the opposite. It's a pride of ownership thing

The they have an awful lot of shootings where numerous hits fail to stop or kill, good guys and bad, that they have to ignore.

unit1069
11-19-2012, 19:50
Which one you suppose gonna hold more powder?

http://www.sff.net/people/sanders/ammo.jpg

Damn physics... :steamed:

If case capacity is the critical factor why is the 9mm just as effective as the .38 Special? Of course the former is loaded to a much higher pressure. My own opinion is that I'll take a high capacity 9mm over a .38 Special revolver, all things being equal.

Technology is ever-evolving and since the 9mm and .357 Magnum bullet size is almost identical perhaps someday the 9mm can safely be loaded to match the Magnum. My problem with accepting the hyper velocity rounds is the danger of overpressure due to pushing the envelope.

The Magnum has a lot of head start in bullet design from its inception, from what I've learned. In these threads I've wondered why the specialty ammo companies aren't using the 125-grain .357sig bullets in their hyper hot 9mm products. That would make sense to me.

For example, Hornady's 124-grain XTP 9mm bullet has the deep cavity design whereas their 124-grain .357sig is a shallow cup design. For boutique ammo companies pushing the velocity envelope wouldn't it make sense for them to load the Speer 6-petal 125-grain shallow cup .357sig bullet in their 9mm +P+ rounds advertised at 1400 fps?

uz2bUSMC
11-19-2012, 20:28
In these threads I've wondered why the specialty ammo companies aren't using the 125-grain .357sig bullets in their hyper hot 9mm products. That would make sense to me.

For example, Hornady's 124-grain XTP 9mm bullet has the deep cavity design whereas their 124-grain .357sig is a shallow cup design. For boutique ammo companies pushing the velocity envelope wouldn't it make sense for them to load the Speer 6-petal 125-grain shallow cup .357sig bullet in their 9mm +P+ rounds advertised at 1400 fps?

I think they will, just need a little more time. I'm not a business man but I would venture to guess that the boutique manufactures need time to process results and feed back, to weigh certain ideas based on demand and other things. What takes a couple of years for us to see might only seem like only the blink of an eye to a manufacturer. I'm not a 9mm fan but if it's prolific nature leads the way for construction improvements...I think it will be worth the wait for all terminal ballistic enthusiasts and defensive shooters among all service caliber variations. Things seem to be moving along quite quickly because of the big names and boutique manufacturer's efforts, IMHO.

Zombie Steve
11-19-2012, 20:30
If case capacity is the critical factor why is the 9mm just as effective as the .38 Special? Of course the former is loaded to a much higher pressure. My own opinion is that I'll take a high capacity 9mm over a .38 Special revolver, all things being equal.

Technology is ever-evolving and since the 9mm and .357 Magnum bullet size is almost identical perhaps someday the 9mm can safely be loaded to match the Magnum. My problem with accepting the hyper velocity rounds is the danger of overpressure due to pushing the envelope.



Manufacturers gotta keep .38 special at pressures that the old guns can handle. It's a question of frame strength. In the 50's Elmer Keith was loading a 173 grain cast boolit in .38 special brass that would make 1,200+ fps from a 3-1/2" model 27. Try putting a 173 grain bullet in a 9mm case and see how much room is left for powder. You were on to something though... if loaded to similar pressures, there is no way the 9mm could keep up. Why? Case volume. It will do the same work at lower pressures, or outperform it with equal pressure.

And what type of technology is going to hit the 9mm that couldn't also be used in the .357 mag?

unit1069
11-19-2012, 21:07
Manufacturers gotta keep .38 special at pressures that the old guns can handle. It's a question of frame strength. In the 50's Elmer Keith was loading a 173 grain cast boolit in .38 special brass that would make 1,200+ fps from a 3-1/2" model 27. Try putting a 173 grain bullet in a 9mm case and see how much room is left for powder. You were on to something though... if loaded to similar pressures, there is no way the 9mm could keep up. Why? Case volume. It will do the same work at lower pressures, or outperform it with equal pressure.

Well that's why I'll take 9mm over a .38 Special revolver; twice the number of rounds with at least the equivalent or better stopping power without any additional weight. I don't know of any semi-auto .38 Special handguns but I was able to shoot a .357 Magnum Desert Eagle at the range once. It was a massive, heavy pistol completely unsuited for my personal uses. So the large case volume --- in my opinion --- has definite drawbacks when it comes to size and weight.

And what type of technology is going to hit the 9mm that couldn't also be used in the .357 mag?

The 9mm may never equal the real or potential power of .357 Magnum but since the Magnum is already the benchmark standard for handgun effectiveness I think any additional configurations for that caliber would have special applications over and above personal self-defense requirements.

ojabog
11-19-2012, 21:17
And you 9mm gun explodes in the process of firing these hi pressure loads.

Rob1109
11-19-2012, 21:17
Does it shoot 158 grainers at 1500fps?

No, because the 9mm will never have a 8 3/8" barrel that Hornaday uses for that 1500fps!

WiskyT
11-19-2012, 21:20
No, because the 9mm will never have a 8 3/8" barrel that Hornaday uses for that 1500fps!

Mine does it in a 4".

Zombie Steve
11-19-2012, 21:49
Mine does it in a 4".

Yeah, but you don't have 17+1 capacity.

:whistling:

PrecisionRifleman
11-20-2012, 02:04
Yeah, but you don't have 17+1 capacity.

:whistling:

:rofl:

attrapereves
11-20-2012, 16:02
The they have an awful lot of shootings where numerous hits fail to stop or kill, good guys and bad, that they have to ignore.

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that 9mm is the most widely used handgun caliber. Most thugs tend to buy the cheapest ammo, and often have poor shooting skills. Bad ammo + bad shot placement = failure to stop. NYPD issues the G19 and there have been many reports of one-shot stops.

I carry a 9mm, 45ACP, or 10mm Glock depending on my mood. I like them all for different reasons. However, I find that I have tighter groups and just shoot better with the 9mm. :upeyes:

countrygun
11-20-2012, 16:51
I think a lot of this comes from the fact that 9mm is the most widely used handgun caliber. Most thugs tend to buy the cheapest ammo, and often have poor shooting skills. Bad ammo + bad shot placement = failure to stop. NYPD issues the G19 and there have been many reports of one-shot stops.

I carry a 9mm, 45ACP, or 10mm Glock depending on my mood. I like them all for different reasons. However, I find that I have tighter groups and just shoot better with the 9mm. :upeyes:

The 9mm never had a great reputation as a stopper no matter what bullet was in it, or how much it cost, until relatively recently in the cartridge's lifespan. Up until (depending on who you talk to) sometime in the 1990's when bullet design "picked up". Pretty much the SD ammo until then stunk on ice or was still "experimental".

WiskyT
11-20-2012, 17:00
Yeah, but you don't have 17+1 capacity.

:whistling:

True, that's why I carry a G27:wavey:

Warp
11-20-2012, 17:05
9mm still doesn't equal .357

Andy W
11-20-2012, 18:56
I'm not sure I'd want to shoot this stuff through my m&p. for one its not gonna be pleasant to shoot and 2) I'm not sure it's safe.

Give me some Speer Gold Dots or 147 grain HSTs

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TWS G26
11-20-2012, 22:00
And per usual with 9mm bullets pushed beyond their velocity limits, the penetration sucks.

Also, 501 ft/lbs doesn't come close to full power .357 Magnum loads. Shoot some 125gr Buffalo Bore .357 loads @ 1700 fps and tell me if these 115gr Underwood loads come close. I'll save you the time: they don't.

Sorry, this thread is a fail.

Velocity is quite impressive, and the energy....but yes, those bullets were pushed beyond the envelope. I know, because I'm looking at them on my desk. :-)

In the real world, I have to think they WILL NOT expand like that.

Andy W
11-21-2012, 11:41
I think a lot of this comes from the fact that 9mm is the most widely used handgun caliber. Most thugs tend to buy the cheapest ammo, and often have poor shooting skills. Bad ammo + bad shot placement = failure to stop. NYPD issues the G19 and there have been many reports of one-shot stops.

I carry a 9mm, 45ACP, or 10mm Glock depending on my mood. I like them all for different reasons. However, I find that I have tighter groups and just shoot better with the 9mm. :upeyes:

I concur with your thoughts. However. I'd also like to add that there have also been numerous failures to stop with .40s and .45s in handguns. There was one a few years back where a BG was shot like 17 times center mass with .40 180 grain Gold Dots and .223 Hornady TAP and he was still fighting when the responding officers cuffed him. He didn't die until later in the hostpital. I remember another similar incident with the .40 round. Before caliber or expansion even become an issue, rounds need to 1.) penetrate deep enough to hit the vitals and 2.) said rounds have to actually hit and damage something vital. In the aforementioned case, the FBI actually investigated the shooting and determined yes, they shot the suspect a whole bunch of times and yes, the .40 rounds had penetrated deep enough (.223 rounds did not) and expanded but none of the rounds which struck the assailant hit anything that would quickly stop the fight ie: CNS, heart, lungs, major arteries, liver.

So, before we blame a failure to stop on the fact the shooter used a 9mm, we first need to consider whether or not penetraton and shot placement were adequate before we should even consider whether he should have used a bigger caliber. Yes, .40 and .45 will inflict more damage than 9mm in an equally placed shot but that doesn't mean much if you don't hit anything vital.

Andy W
11-21-2012, 11:50
The 9mm never had a great reputation as a stopper no matter what bullet was in it, or how much it cost, until relatively recently in the cartridge's lifespan. Up until (depending on who you talk to) sometime in the 1990's when bullet design "picked up". Pretty much the SD ammo until then stunk on ice or was still "experimental".

Just an observation. Because the 9mm is a smaller round, the hollowpoint cavity is inherently smaller than in a larger caliber. All early hollowpoint designs were suseptible to plugging but the 9mm especially so because the cavities were smaller than in, for instance, a .45 ACP. Even barring the cavity being plugged with cloth or something, there is significantly less room for stuff to get into the cavity and facilitate expansion. I remember reading something, I believe by Mas Ayoob, who said that was the reason behind the 9mm Hydra-Shoks poor performance compared to the same design in .40 or even more so in .45. The 9mm has a smaller cavity to begin with and when you put a post in the middle of it, that leaves even less room.

SCmasterblaster
11-21-2012, 13:42
9mm still doesn't equal .357

Agreed. :cool:

WilliamDahl
11-21-2012, 18:11
I don't care who it is, or how hard they try - they'll never get the 9x19 cartridge to propel a 158gr SJHP at 1400-1500 FPS. The barrel length won't matter, either.

Never say never... I suspect that with the right single shot pistol loaded with a full compressed case of an extremely fast powder while also having an extremely thick barrel, it would be possible. Basically a controlled explosion... :)

unit1069
11-21-2012, 18:47
I remember reading something, I believe by Mas Ayoob, who said that was the reason behind the 9mm Hydra-Shoks poor performance compared to the same design in .40 or even more so in .45. The 9mm has a smaller cavity to begin with and when you put a post in the middle of it, that leaves even less room.

I've read that Federal HST is actually the Hydra-Shok bullet without the post. (AKA "Hydra-Shok Two")

Whether it's a tweaked HS or not HST amazes me with its consistent expansion in all calibers.

Andy W
11-21-2012, 21:42
I've read that Federal HST is actually the Hydra-Shok bullet without the post. (AKA "Hydra-Shok Two")

Whether it's a tweaked HS or not HST amazes me with its consistent expansion in all calibers.

It may be based on a hydra-shok without the post but that's definitely not all they've done. Look at the slits in the jacket on the HST and also the shape of the round when expanded then compare to a similar caliber and weight hydra-shok. Definitely not the same bullet. I've read Federal puts wire framework in the bullets to give them that consistent flower shape upon expansion.


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Ike Arumba
11-24-2012, 17:00
Ballistics By The Inch's 9mm page at http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html shows one load with a heavy bullet, the 147gr Hydra-Shok. They measured 1007 fps out of a 5 inch barrel, 1067 fps out of a 10 inch barrel, and a max of 1096 fps out of a 17 inch barrel. There just isn't enough powder capacity in that case to gain much advantage from a long barrel using a heavy bullet. I doubt that monkeying around with faster powders generating excessive pressures will push this up to anywhere near 357 mag velocity.

Kingarthurhk
11-24-2012, 18:32
115 grain +p+ 1450 FPS and 501 ft/lbs!!!! HOLY ****:faint::faint::faint::faint::faint:


Underwood 9mm 115 gr +P+ JHP Ammo Test - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ7ri9wa728)


40 grain .22LR 1,400 FPS. Whoopdi Doo.:upeyes:

jlavallee
11-24-2012, 18:49
I love the 9mm but it is in the mid range of SD along with the .45 ACP and .40 S&W.

.357 Mag can go to a much higher level as long as it has the barrel legnth where it is more of a hunting round than a SD round as can the 10mm.

The loads sold by manufacturers as SD loads are all pretty similar and are designed to meet the general FBI specs and such. I can load one of my .357's with a really hot load and if it goes through the target then energy was wasted and now even if I hit, I have a bullet looking for a backstop. Not good.

Lots of folks like to make two holes when they hunt, that is not a good idea in SD. 400-500 ft.lbs in a human is what seems to work well.

uz2bUSMC
11-24-2012, 18:52
40 grain .22LR 1,400 FPS. Whoopdi Doo.:upeyes:

174 vs 501ft lbs

countrygun
11-24-2012, 20:23
Just an observation. Because the 9mm is a smaller round, the hollowpoint cavity is inherently smaller than in a larger caliber. All early hollowpoint designs were suseptible to plugging but the 9mm especially so because the cavities were smaller than in, for instance, a .45 ACP. Even barring the cavity being plugged with cloth or something, there is significantly less room for stuff to get into the cavity and facilitate expansion. I remember reading something, I believe by Mas Ayoob, who said that was the reason behind the 9mm Hydra-Shoks poor performance compared to the same design in .40 or even more so in .45. The 9mm has a smaller cavity to begin with and when you put a post in the middle of it, that leaves even less room.


.355 vs.357 whoopie.

But the 9mm has to be shaped to feed and not deform on the feed ramp.

I had some of the early HSs in .38 which were basically a Hollow based wadcutter reversed with a post. they were impressive, but, there is always a point of diminishing returns with everything and unfrtunately humans are slow to grasp this. We think "If a certain velocity is good, then more must be better."

As one poster has pointed out a bullet that goes through and through spends less energy on the target than one at less velocity that remains in the target. It is also that way with expansion but it is very hard to get peple to grasp. The only "energy" that can cause the expansion of a bullet is that which the bullet itself brought with it. In essence the bullet spends a prtion of it's energy on itself, of course mangling tissue in the bargain. But it is that nasty "diminishing returns" issue that makes it fodder for speculation.

Ihe 9mm HS with the post is an example of something not being a "great idea across the board". If you took a .38/.357 bullet, gave it the same profile and incresed the cavity opening proportionate to the extra.002" and fired it at the same velocity into the same medium I doubt there would be much difference.

What is overlooked, when people start choosing up sides and picking their favrite paradigm to defend, is the completely uncontrolable variables involve in external ballistics in the SD/Gunfighting" realm. Everything from the target weight it's BMI fluid in the tissues, clothing, angle of shot, and many other factors play into "what would be the perfect round for THIS situation?".

I have faced it, for instance, in chosing a hunting bullet for deer. Lets say I happen to know, that if I drive a fast expanding 130gn .308 bullet at top speed it will flatted a deer, if I get the "picture perfect broadside shot, in it's tracks. On the other hand a shot where the deer is quartering may have the problem of the bullet blowing up on a large bone. If I choose say a 165gn bullet it would smash throught a hipbone and reach vitals, but on a broadside shot it will likely break a rib on the way in, expand a bit, hopefully hit the vitals and break a rib or two as it exits to spend it's energy on something else. I can almost promise it will not drop the deer as fast as the lighter fast expanding bullet.

This is similar to the choices we make with SD ammo, couple it with the fact that the "deer" is likely shooting back, and all the other variables and we shuld be askiking "How Many Guns Do you carry to meet all the possiblilities?" We each have to make a choice and before we are critical of the chices of others, bear in mind "every handgun round .22 lr and up up HAS stopped someone, somewhere, with one shot and every handgun round from .22lr up HAS failed to stop someone, somewhere, with one shot."

Handguns suck at stopping people but they fit on the belt nicely. Your choice might work or it might not, same with the other guy's. But at least you both made a choice and that is 99% of the fight anyway.

Scoob
11-24-2012, 23:14
Yeah I'm sorry but 9mm will never be 357 magnum or even 357 sig. What 9mm has in it's favor is low recoil and high capacity. That is a great thing and 9mm is my second favorite cartridge for that reason.

Suby
11-25-2012, 09:44
Am I the only one thankful that 9mm is not equal to a .357 magnum? cost, blast, weight? I love my 6" 357 magnum but I have only carried it in the woods I carry my 9mm 24/7 365.
when I hear people saying they would never carry anything less powerful than a ."357 MAGNUM" I ask them if I can see it...they walk to their safe and get it out and show me, I then laugh.

WiskyT
11-25-2012, 13:28
Am I the only one thankful that 9mm is not equal to a .357 magnum? cost, blast, weight? I love my 6" 357 magnum but I have only carried it in the woods I carry my 9mm 24/7 365.
when I hear people saying they would never carry anything less powerful than a ."357 MAGNUM" I ask them if I can see it...they walk to their safe and get it out and show me, I then laugh.

Yup. All the guys in my club are died-in-the-wool 1911 guys. They all have carry permits. Their gun is always in their range bag. My gun is always on my hip or in my pocket and it aint no 40 ounce steel 45.

SCmasterblaster
11-25-2012, 14:29
Does it shoot 158 grainers at 1500fps?

The heaviest bullet loaded for 9x19 us the 147gr JHP, and the +p loading yields 1000 FPS or so. The 9mm will never equal the famed .357 loading of a 125gr JHP going 1450 FPS.

countrygun
11-25-2012, 15:20
Am I the only one thankful that 9mm is not equal to a .357 magnum? cost, blast, weight? I love my 6" 357 magnum but I have only carried it in the woods I carry my 9mm 24/7 365.
when I hear people saying they would never carry anything less powerful than a ."357 MAGNUM" I ask them if I can see it...they walk to their safe and get it out and show me, I then laugh.

There is a good chance I might reach on my belt to show you a 3" model 65

WiskyT
11-25-2012, 17:38
The heaviest bullet loaded for 9x19 us the 147gr JHP, and the +p loading yields 1000 FPS or so. The 9mm will never equal the famed .357 loading of a 125gr JHP going 1450 FPS.

There have been some 158's in 9mm for suppressed subguns.

dkf
11-25-2012, 18:12
Am I the only one thankful that 9mm is not equal to a .357 magnum? cost, blast, weight? I love my 6" 357 magnum but I have only carried it in the woods I carry my 9mm 24/7 365.
when I hear people saying they would never carry anything less powerful than a ."357 MAGNUM" I ask them if I can see it...they walk to their safe and get it out and show me, I then laugh.

As much as I like the .357mag and revolvers I have no interest in carrying one all the time. Hiking in the woods or hunting no problem. Carrying all the time I will take the double or more round capacity, lighter weight, more compact, no cylinder bulge pistol. Don't really matter if it is 9mm, .40, .357sig and etc.

There have been some 158's in 9mm for suppressed subguns. Must move at half the speed of smell.:whistling:

WiskyT
11-25-2012, 18:28
Must move at half the speed of smell.:whistling:

I don't know what the commercial ammo does, but I loaded some 158LRN to some old Lyman data and got 900fps out of a pistol.

SCmasterblaster
11-25-2012, 18:34
I'm sure you already know this, but I wish to reiterate. 9mm owners are very defensive about their guns. In their own minds the 9mm round is every bit as good as any other round out there despite proof to the opposite. It's a pride of ownership thing

Look at me. The only Glock I own (since 1989) has been the G17 9mm.

Nanuk
11-25-2012, 22:28
9mm = Girl's gun


:rofl:

WilliamDahl
11-26-2012, 05:17
As much as I like the .357mag and revolvers I have no interest in carrying one all the time. Hiking in the woods or hunting no problem. Carrying all the time I will take the double or more round capacity, lighter weight, more compact, no cylinder bulge pistol. Don't really matter if it is 9mm, .40, .357sig and etc.

There have been .357mag semi-autos...

http://www.gunreports.com/news/news/Coonan-to-introduce-357-Magnum-automatic_3679-1.html
http://www.coonaninc.com/products.php/pistol/cPath,5/osCsid,a88a171c8e8371d27294544cf8c07fcb
http://www.magnumresearch.com/Firearms/Magnum-Research-Desert-Eagle-357-Magnum-Black.asp

WilliamDahl
11-26-2012, 05:22
9mm = Girl's gun


Like this?

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTAI_lZ_Nd92d3Ym6AZEaSi0lisbmtrcj4nGVp3vUkIh1DPhwpC

clarkz71
11-26-2012, 06:28
There have been .357mag semi-autos...

http://www.gunreports.com/news/news/Coonan-to-introduce-357-Magnum-automatic_3679-1.html
http://www.coonaninc.com/products.php/pistol/cPath,5/osCsid,a88a171c8e8371d27294544cf8c07fcb
http://www.magnumresearch.com/Firearms/Magnum-Research-Desert-Eagle-357-Magnum-Black.asp

I had the Desert Eagle 357, nice gun

dkf
11-26-2012, 08:07
There have been .357mag semi-autos...

http://www.gunreports.com/news/news/Coonan-to-introduce-357-Magnum-automatic_3679-1.html
http://www.coonaninc.com/products.php/pistol/cPath,5/osCsid,a88a171c8e8371d27294544cf8c07fcb
http://www.magnumresearch.com/Firearms/Magnum-Research-Desert-Eagle-357-Magnum-Black.asp

I know there are a few out there. Look what they weigh. A 4.5lb pistol that holds 9 rounds of .357mag is far from ideal for carry. The Coonan isn't much better in the weight aspect and looses a couple rounds. Range only guns in my book.

SCmasterblaster
11-26-2012, 11:00
There have been some 158's in 9mm for suppressed subguns.

And it was going way below 1100 FPS. Subsonic, for sure.

Poohgyrr
11-26-2012, 12:27
:: I don't know of any semi-auto .38 Special handguns but I was able to shoot a .357 Magnum Desert Eagle at the range once. It was a massive, heavy pistol completely unsuited for my personal uses. :::

FYI, Coonan 357 Magnum Autoloader. 5" stainless steel. Also shoots 38 S&W Special. I sold this before Dan resumed production, but it remains one of the most accurate pistols I have ever shot, two handed and standing - using standard full power (for today's standards) ammo. Much much less recoil than a 4" revolver, and quite a bit more velocity.

A great pistol, and now magazines are available once again.

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy329/Poohgyrr/Guns/coonansparks0oa.jpg

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy329/Poohgyrr/Guns/coonan357magnum2cf.jpg

unit1069
11-26-2012, 17:11
FYI, Coonan 357 Magnum Autoloader. 5" stainless steel. Also shoots 38 S&W Special.

I hadn't thought of that although I'm well aware that the .357 Magnum revolvers shoot .38 Special.

But with a .357 Magnum semi-auto pistol that heavy I doubt many owners would choose to download the ammo except for range practice.

SCmasterblaster
11-26-2012, 18:12
http://www.handloads.org/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=0

noway
11-26-2012, 19:47
People just don't learn and always challenging the magnum :)