Newbie 10mm owner needs advice pleasr [Archive] - Glock Talk

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chuck11976
11-21-2012, 17:37
I am about to start reloading for my 10mm G20. I have never reloaded before so I am doing my research diligently. Many of you here have been reloading for a long time and have tons of experience with it but me being a complete virgin to reloading, I would just like to have some advice for some safe yet 10mm worthy loads for my g20. I am about to place my order with Grafs for some Berry plated 155gr bullets and Starline brass with standard CCI primers and Accurate #9. Is this a good combo? Can I get SAFE yet powerful loads with this setup using the Lee Breechlock system? As you can see, I'm anxious to get started but naturally slightly nervous since I've never done this before. I love my G20 more than any other Glocks I've ever owned and carry it daily. Please give me some advice, from a beginners perspective, on how I can achieve good, safe, decently powerful loads with the items I've described above. With much practice, I'm sure I'll get to know all this in time and get to the point where I too will be able to experiment with different recipes. For now, I want to be safe but not shoot glorified 40 rounds either. Any help would be appreciated.

klmmicro
11-21-2012, 17:56
Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading!

You need to check the published data in your reloading manual and build a test load 10% below max. Use the components that match the published load. Even at 10% below max, you will still be equal to standard 40 SW loads, so it will have plenty of power.

It is unwise to start hot-rodding loads when you are new to the art. I am sure that you can produce safe loads with the components you are listing. Without some reloading background though, you can run into dangerous trouble rather quickly when starting to mix and match random components. This is not something that you should rush into.

Check you manual, choose the load that you desire and order exactly the components that are listed there. Start with that and learn the ropes before going nuke.

chuck11976
11-21-2012, 18:22
Thanks for the quick reply. What do you mean by mix and match random components? Are Berry, Starline, CCI, and Accurate #9 acceptable components to mix? Lee's Modern reloading manual shows a 155gr copper plated bullet with Accurate #9 powder at a low of 13.5 grains not to exceed 15.0 grains with an OAL of 1.260. If I were to load 14.0 grains, right in the middle of min and max, would this be ok?

Kwesi
11-21-2012, 23:27
I think he is saying regarding the published recipe in the manual:

Don't mix a lead bullet if a jacketed is specified and vice versa
Don't use a magnum primer in place of a regular

Starline brass is fine

countrygun
11-21-2012, 23:43
I tell every first timer, "Get a copy of "the ABCs of Reloading" and study it"

It won't answer questions aboout specific loads but it gives a great foundation to understand the process and the questions to ask.

FWIW I am one of the few that likes the Lee manual and find it is pretty conservative generally. Just as a FWIW: If I am reloading with my eyes toward a top end load, in a NEW caliber I will start at the lowest charge and work up by .5 or even .25 gns and test them FOR ACCURACY for a bench just to see the relationship between the charge and accuracy to see if there is a "trackability, and a "drop off" point.

I have found that some combinations have a rather abrupt accuracy drop at some point before the pressure max is reached. I then evaluate my purpose for the round and whether the increase in velocity is worth the drop in accuracy.

for example a .44 special load that gives up 1" in group size out of my Charter Bulldog 2" might be acceptable if it gets another 150 fps. On the other hand in a .44 mag I an going to use for deer hunting has plenty of power at below max, for my shooting distances, I want the best accuracy I can get.

I dunno if it helps, just some things to think about.

Good luck and remember , "If anything seems wrong, STOP, and figure out what it is before proceeding".

chuck11976
11-22-2012, 07:14
Thank you guys.

MakeMineA10mm
11-24-2012, 06:29
Chuck,

Welcome to 10mm handloading and our subforum.

My addition to the excellent advice above is this: if you are totally new to reloading, there is a large base skill-set you should work on and have a comfortable grasp of before you start working towards max 10mm loads. My commendatio is to buy a pound of Unique and load 1200 or so middle-of-the-road loads first, so you know the process, know how your gun gets along with them, and yet still feel the accomplishment.

Re-read the disclaimer stickied at the top of this subforum.

arthury
11-24-2012, 09:31
Welcome to reloading ... it will open you to new horizons that you cannot even imagine.

And, don't worry about reloading your first powerful 10mm caliber. To be honest, the first caliber I reloaded when I started reloading was the 500S&W. I learned that manuals are more trustworthy than hearsay and loading data from even famous men. Remember that the famous men have decades of experience under their belt; so, stick with the manuals for now.

_The_Shadow
11-24-2012, 17:04
Here is my best advise for you consideing you're new to handloading...
Using plated bullet is very much like loading cast alloy bullets. Cases may need to be debured and you will want to use enough case mouth expansion (slight flair) so as to accept the bullet inside, this helps to elimanate the bullet material from shaving or in the case of plated bullet the plating can be ripped into pieces.

You will want to seat your bullets to proper depth without any crimp being applied, why you might ask? The bullet has no cannelure so as the bullet is bing pushed down into the casing the crimp can snag the bullet. This can shave bullet materials off and roll up on the edge of the brass or if can snag the brass case and buckle or wrinkle the brass, either way its a problem!

After the bullets are seated to proper depth then you will want to apply the taper crimp to finish them. Not too much crimp as that can cut the plating or wrinkle the brass as well...Be careful if you are using the LEE FCD as this can squeeze the cartridge too much thus exerting too much pressure to the bullet inside effectively making it smaller in diameter...not good. That can make them loose inside the casing, yield poor powder ignition and burn, cause bullet setback etc.

Take your time and work with each die station to set them up correctly and you'll be fine!

Plated bullets need to be kept down to about 1100-1150 fps so keep that in mind while selecting a good load.

Best regards!

PrecisionRifleman
11-24-2012, 17:10
If your going for a hot load I recommended using the Hornady XTP.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

chuck11976
11-24-2012, 21:43
Thanks for all the advice. So, am I to understand that what the Lee modern reloading suggests for 155 gr copper plated bullets using accurate #9 (13.5 start grain yielding 1206 fps) is too high for a Berrys copper plated bullet? Should I lower the starting grains to perhaps 13 to be safe?

arthury
11-24-2012, 21:57
Thanks for all the advice. So, am I to understand that what the Lee modern reloading suggests for 155 gr copper plated bullets using accurate #9 (13.5 start grain yielding 1206 fps) is too high for a Berrys copper plated bullet? Should I lower the starting grains to perhaps 13 to be safe?

The suggestion above to use 10% below the max and slowly work up is a good advice.

WeeWilly
11-24-2012, 22:20
Thanks for all the advice. So, am I to understand that what the Lee modern reloading suggests for 155 gr copper plated bullets using accurate #9 (13.5 start grain yielding 1206 fps) is too high for a Berrys copper plated bullet? Should I lower the starting grains to perhaps 13 to be safe?

It has been a while since I loaded Berry's. When I was loading them, I recall a 1200fps speed limit. I think you are fine going up to that limit, so just pick a load that keeps your velocity under that number.

Or, just give them a call and verify how hard you can push them. I think I read somewhere that Berry's was plating their bullets a little thicker and were a little harder, but I am unsure iof that information.

LASTRESORT20
11-24-2012, 22:34
Chuck: *This will help You get started....Get to know the basic`s well.

Read & read over then save:

http://www.zombiesurvivalwiki.com/page/Reloading+Ammunition

arthury
11-25-2012, 07:47
Berry's website has some info on speed limits ...


http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q10-c1-How_fast_can_I_shoot_these_bullets.aspx

blastfact
11-25-2012, 11:32
I wouldn't be using Berry's Bullets. For a tad more money the Noslers can be found. While I don't think there near as good as XTP's or Gold Dots. They do get you into the more common realm of jacketed bullets. Or Zero's would work also. The only thing I can see Berry's teaching you is flaring, setting the bullet and crimp. You will have to open the case up a hair more and crimp just right. But you will never be able to go past .40 Smith numbers. And shooting fairy .40's out of a 10mm is truly a WTF moment in my minds eye.

Study, study and study some more. Come to understand the process of loading your own. It's not a dark art. And over all it is simple. It's a straight forward process that can be very rewarding or a complete nightmare. Find a mentor if you can.

The most important item a reloader can have is a set of check weights. I don't care if you have the best scales money can buy or the cheapest out there. Check weights keep the scales and yourself honest.

The 10mm is a wonderful round to reload! One can go from mild to wild. But most seem to find there best loads under wild.

Welcome to reloading. Learn, think, work and enjoy. :)

gofastman
11-25-2012, 12:16
my thoughts:
AA#9 is a great powder, and its very good for beginners, however it simply will not work with a LEE perfect powder measure!
Longshot works great: full power if you want it, forgiving pressure characteristics and reasonably hard to double charge.

buy a digital scale, use it in conjunction with a beam scale! use the beam scale to set your charges and your digi to double check to make sure you didn't misplace a decimal point or something

Id go with 180gr bullets, much easier to find data for in 10mm, Powerbond (http://www.powerbondbullets.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PBOS&Product_Code=40FP180&Category_Code=40) is highly regarded by many.

try this:
9.2grs longshot
180gr FMJ
CCI 300(preferred) or WLP primer

its safe, powerful and super acurate!

Taterhead
11-25-2012, 23:32
Welcome Chuck,

If new to loading, don't worry about going powerful. Get a couple of good loading manuals and study them. Then have them onhand to walk through as you load for the first time. I think the Speer #14 has a great "how to" reloading section. Secondly, if you want to run powerful 10mm loads, you won't get there with a Berry's bullet. Due to their construction, they have a low speed limit before accuracy goes to crap.

If going the route of plated bullets, skip Berry's. I have loaded thousands of them and they simply do not want to run at 10mm velocities. They can be made to work fine with some careful loading steps and velocities of 1050 fps or less.

I would suggest going with a 180 grain rather than 155 and going with PowderBond bullets. They are less fussy to load than Berry's, and they are typically less expensive. I switched earlier this year and have gone through about 2500 of them so far. In my correspondence with them, they recommend using load data found for jacketed bullets.

PowerBond is a lesser-known but far superior bullet than Berry's. Precision Delta is in that similar price range, and has a great reputation. However, P. Delta has a high minimum order quantity that is prohibitive for some.

Accurate no. 9 is my favorite 10mm powder, but I typically reserve it for high-performance loads. Because it consumes so many grains per charge, it is not an economical range powder.

Other powders that have worked great under a 180 PowderBond that consume less powder than A9:

8.0 grains of Accurate #5
10.2 grains Accurate #7
9.9 grains Blue Dot
8.6 grains LongShot (not quite as good groups as the others but adequate for range fodder)

13.5 grains of Accurate #9 for a warmish load that groups very well. But you can see that it consumes at least 30% more than the other loads.

All functioned well out of my G20 with stock barrel.

As far a components go, here is what I would do to start out:

Order 500 pieces of brass from Starlinebrass.com. Best prices, great brass, and they include shipping.

Order 500 PowderBond 180 gr FP bullets from powerbondbullets.com. 500 is their minimum order and includes shipping.

Buy a pound of powder and a 1000 primers (CCI 300s or Win WLPs) from your local gun store to save HazMat fees while you are sampling in smaller quantities.

As you get a better idea of what you want, you can order powders and primers in larger online quantities to benefit from online discounts. Powder Valley has good prices.

Again, before buying anything else please get a couple of loading manuals and study intently. That will help you fine-tune what you are looking for in 10mm components.

Taterhead
11-25-2012, 23:34
Thanks for all the advice. So, am I to understand that what the Lee modern reloading suggests for 155 gr copper plated bullets using accurate #9 (13.5 start grain yielding 1206 fps) is too high for a Berrys copper plated bullet? Should I lower the starting grains to perhaps 13 to be safe?

Berry's should be loaded to no higher than mid-range loads published for jacketed bullets.

MinervaDoe
11-26-2012, 00:15
Just a few thoughts.
I've shot a couple of thousand plated bullets through my G20 & G29.

I use load data for lead bullets rather than jacketed when reloading for plated rounds. The only place that I've found actual load data for plated bullets is the Accurate Arms reloading manual online.
http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf

For 10mm, Accurate Arms lists three loads for the manufacturer RAN (Ranier). You can use their manual to compare to some copper jacketed loads.

You'll hear opinions to the contrary, but I do believe that it is a good idea to keep plated rounds under 1,200 fps.

ModGlock17
11-26-2012, 19:48
....

You'll hear opinions to the contrary, but I do believe that it is a good idea to keep plated rounds under 1,200 fps.

I second that.

Not opinion but fact: I did have quite a few target sheets @10yrd distance with holes in them, then a few slits about the length of bullets (Berry's 180gr Flat nosed plated... cheapest I found). Got more of those slits when I kicked them near 1,300fps. The slit ones are usually about 4" from POA!

It took my hard head awhile to realize they were tumbling out of control.

So I brought them back to less than 1,150fps and would get target sheets full of holes, no slits. I did post more than a year ago regarding the probability of tumbling vs. breaking the sound barrier (roughly 1,140 fps at sea level and 70F). Keep them under the sound barrier, I thought, and everything would be fine.

Berry's plated bullets were economical to me as I learned and experimented with variables in reloading techniques. They got me so used to the feel of shooting 10mm, second nature. They cost me about 13cent each.

Once that was done and I felt like I had a feel for the whole process and comfortable with bullet speed, I'd pay 20+ cents for real bullet that would go 1,300 to near 1,600fps.

MinervaDoe
11-26-2012, 20:57
BTW: Here is a thread where I talk about my plated 10mm rounds.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1305709