looking to get AR [Archive] - Glock Talk

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*ASH*
11-22-2012, 20:20
i own several guns and whatnot , never an AR / BUY A COMPLETE RIFLE ? OR HAVE SOMEONE BUILD ME ONE ??

I LIKE the looks of daniel defense guns . id like to go different and have a coyote tan or dark earth AR .

soooooo many options .


any suggestions ??

cheaper to build ?? how hard to build

ithaca_deerslayer
11-22-2012, 20:32
I know not the answer, but definitely get an AR. They are so cool :)

WoodenPlank
11-22-2012, 20:56
Generally not much cheaper to build yourself unless you're digging into more specialized parts. If you're new to ARs, buy a quality factory AR, or at least complete upper and complete lower.

QNman
11-22-2012, 21:27
Generally not much cheaper to build yourself unless you're digging into more specialized parts. If you're new to ARs, buy a quality factory AR, or at least complete upper and complete lower.

This.

Yes, it's cheaper to build your own. No, it's not hard to do. But your FIRST should be a QUALITY factory build. Nothing like setting a baseline before delving into the "black arts". (see what I did there? :supergrin:)

The DD will serve you well. It's not the only choice, but it is clearly a good one.

smokin762
11-22-2012, 22:09
A friend of mine bought two stripped lowers and uppers, and then he painted them with Duracoat before he put them together.

He did a carbine in O.D. Green and the other one which is in 6.5 Grendel he did in Coyote Brown. He left all the controls Black. That seems like a nice option as well.

mac66
11-23-2012, 08:28
I'll be odd man out and say build one yourself. Not only is it cheaper but you learn how ARs work and run and how to fix them while you are assembling one.

By "build one" I mean put together the lower and buy a completed upper. It is not very hard and despite was some of the gun snobs say, there is not much difference between parts kits if you buy from a reputable dealer. PSA (Palmetto State Armory) is a good place to start for parts kits and uppers.

Rooster Rugburn
11-23-2012, 09:46
If you buy an upper and a lower, instead of an entire rifle, supposedly, you can save about 10% tax. A complete rifle is supposedly taxed higher, maybe due to Pittman Robertson. I am not a tax man, but I suspect it's true. Pittman Robertson does dictate a tax to fund wildlife conservation.

And if you get them online, shipped to a FFL, you may also avoid state sales tax. For me, that would be 9.25%

I'll go along with what's already been posted. It's cheaper to build, yes. But I completely agree you will want your first one to be a quality rifle.

But, another perspective. I trained with an instructor, who IS an a-hole (but it's good training and close), who says they don't allow home build rifles in their classes. They've seen too many problems with them and it disrupts the class. He doesn't disallow any brands as far as I know. And, if he gets the idea you baby your rifle, and don't want to scratch it up, he is going to do his damnedest to get it in the gravel, or have you throw it 20 feet against a rock.


This is a momentous occasion in the annals of the Glock Talk Black Rifle Forum. This thread has been running for several hours, nearly half a day, and the chart fan boy hasn't posted at all. Usually, he has rebutted every post by now, especially posts like #6. I hope nothing has happened to him. Surely, he didn't get a life.

M&P15T
11-23-2012, 09:54
On the tan/FDE front, you might consider just buying what you want, and then hanging it from a tree and painting it. It won't be factory finish beautiful, but it will work and look cool none-the-less.

Darkangel1846
11-23-2012, 10:27
Get the one you want even if it cost you a little extra or you will always kick yourself for not getting it. If its a carbine you want DD has a good rep. but so do most of the mass produced rifles. Just decide what you want ....a 20 or 16, a piston, standard gas, ceramic coated...then go for it.

mac66
11-23-2012, 11:51
Walmart has a Sig Ar M400 w/Magpul furniture on sale today for $867. Seems like a good deal to me.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sig-Sauer-M400-Enhanced-Carbine-ODG-with-Rifle-Bag/21677318

I don't suppose there are too many Wal Marters are shopping for ARs today.

MedicOni
11-23-2012, 11:52
Anyone know if Wal-Mart is doing layaway for firearms?

sent from my left big toe

QNman
11-23-2012, 12:08
Walmart has a Sig Ar M400 w/Magpul furniture on sale today for $867. Seems like a good deal to me.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sig-Sauer-M400-Enhanced-Carbine-ODG-with-Rifle-Bag/21677318

I don't suppose there are too many Wal Marters are shopping for ARs today.

Bought a 6920 from them a couple weeks ago... was the cheapest in town, and they had three in stock. The guy behind the counter commented he'd had them awhile because "no one buys those expensive rifles".

Rooster Rugburn
11-23-2012, 12:58
Walmart has a Sig Ar M400 w/Magpul furniture on sale today for $867. Seems like a good deal to me.

I don't suppose there are too many Wal Marters are shopping for ARs today.


None of the Wal-Marts within 60 miles of me have anything.

irishbum
11-23-2012, 13:58
If you are mechanically inclined at all, buy a lower receiver.
Get a lower parts kit without the trigger. Spend a few more bucks and buy a descent trigger. Get the stock you want.

Once your are finished putting the lower together yourself I bet you sit back and laugh at how easy it was and why you never did it before.

Tons of good videos and reading out there.

now for the warning-it can be addictive. I just assembled my first lower don't even have a stock or an upper and I am thinking about buying another receiver already.

MrMurphy
11-23-2012, 14:00
Sig can't even get it's own designs right.

You really going to trust them building a fifty year old design someone ELSE came up with right?

Stick with the known major brands. For a first rifle, get a complete one, or complete upper/complete lower.

If it's your fifth AR and you have some skill, sure, build one for a hobby gun. Me? I stick to factory guns, because tolerance stacking is a *****, and I used to work for a manufacturer. I also consider my rifles working guns, and they better go bang EVERY time. Which no hobby gun I've ever seen can be counted on doing, unless (and sometimes even despite) being put together by a trained armorer.

Cole125
11-23-2012, 14:20
I would suggest just buying a complete rifle, you mentioned Daniel Defense, they make a very high quality AR.

While building is not very hard, your not going to save any money doing it, in fact you spend much more after its all said and done.

*ASH*
11-23-2012, 15:04
seems everyone is out of stock on most AR STUFF :crying:

*ASH*
11-23-2012, 15:05
Which version of daniel defense to get lol

camelotkid
11-23-2012, 15:30
Which version of daniel defense to get lol
I bought the M4 V5 because it has the 12 inch rail guard and the fixed sights are removable if I want to change them. It also already comes with a mapul stock and extended trigger guard. The only thing I plan to change is add a magpul moe grip and throw on a red dot.

camelotkid
11-23-2012, 15:31
westernsport.com has several models in stock the prices are lower than advertised you have to add them to your basket to see the lower price.

*ASH*
11-23-2012, 16:45
westernsport.com has several models in stock the prices are lower than advertised you have to add them to your basket to see the lower price.

cool i will take a peek :wavey::wavey:

*ASH*
11-23-2012, 17:42
COLT AR-15 .223 TACTICAL LIGHT CARBINE DARK EARTH (TALO)

for aroun 1,150 is that good rifle and good price ???

or this colt .

im looking to now just go with a colt

or this one for 1,200

COLT AR-15 .223 RIFLE 16" BBL MAGPUL ACCY BLK (TALO)

WoodenPlank
11-23-2012, 17:46
Both of those Colt prices are a bit high, but not outrageous. If you shop around, I get the feeling you could get either one for $100-200 cheaper.

*ASH*
11-23-2012, 18:04
thanks for info , im definately flying blind on this ar stuff rofl

most places i see to buy online or sold out of everything .

im still looking a daniel defense hard .

QNman
11-23-2012, 18:20
thanks for info , im definately flying blind on this ar stuff rofl

most places i see to buy online or sold out of everything .

im still looking a daniel defense hard .

May sound dumb, but check Wal Mart. I just picked up a 6920 for a little over a grand. Guy at the counter says no one ever buys those "expensive guns", and he had three in stock.

Ruggles
11-23-2012, 18:42
Anyone know if Wal-Mart is doing layaway for firearms?

sent from my left big toe

Yep :)

Rick C
11-23-2012, 19:01
I only have the two. A 2001 DPMS A2 and a 2012 Colt LE6920, WTF do I know. Hell, I just buy'em for the colors.:rofl:

MedicOni
11-23-2012, 19:15
Yep :)

Sweet :) As soon as my background check issue is taken care of I'll swing by there :)

fusegsp
11-23-2012, 21:13
May sound dumb, but check Wal Mart. I just picked up a 6920 for a little over a grand. Guy at the counter says no one ever buys those "expensive guns", and he had three in stock.The two Wal-Marts closest to me have both the Colt LE6920's and the LE6920 Magpul editions. $1097 and $1169 respectively. Look them over carefully. I've looked at three of them that were mangled. Big scrapes on the reciever down to the bare aluminum and barrels with the finish scratched off. Two of those were from the back and weren't display models. The other was from the display rack.

QNman
11-23-2012, 22:04
The two Wal-Marts closest to me have both the Colt LE6920's and the LE6920 Magpul editions. $1097 and $1169 respectively. Look them over carefully. I've looked at three of them that were mangled. Big scrapes on the reciever down to the bare aluminum and barrels with the finish scratched off. Two of those were from the back and weren't display models. The other was from the display rack.

I did. I made them bring the two from the back, rather than accept the marred one on display. First one out of the box was flawless, so I snatched it.

mjkeat
11-24-2012, 22:06
I'm a fan of factory rifles. A self assembled lower w/ factory upper at the least. Factory built rifles just run better.

_______

I'd take the marred up AR and talk them into discouting it. Marred up, I'm guessing cosmetic only, means nothing in terms of function.

JuneyBooney
11-24-2012, 23:25
Building an Ar or buying one will be about the same price but vary widely by quality and name.

*ASH*
11-24-2012, 23:30
yeah im buying DANIEL DEFENSE . picking it up tuesday

im stoked @@!!!!!

QNman
11-25-2012, 07:17
yeah im buying DANIEL DEFENSE . picking it up tuesday

im stoked @@!!!!!

Nice!! I have zero doubt you will enjoy the hell out of it.

Welcome to your newest addiction. :supergrin:

camelotkid
11-25-2012, 07:38
yeah im buying DANIEL DEFENSE . picking it up tuesday

im stoked @@!!!!!
heck yeah! which model did you decide to go with? You will have yours before I get mine. I changed my order from the .300blk to a std 5.56 so it will be longer before it gets to my FFL.

mac66
11-25-2012, 08:32
Sig can't even get it's own designs right.

You really going to trust them building a fifty year old design someone ELSE came up with right?

Not exactly rocket science.So yeah I would trust Sig to put an AR together.

Stick with the known major brands. For a first rifle, get a complete one, or complete upper/complete lower.

If it's your fifth AR and you have some skill, sure, build one for a hobby gun. Me? I stick to factory guns, because tolerance stacking is a *****, and I used to work for a manufacturer. I also consider my rifles working guns, and they better go bang EVERY time. Which no hobby gun I've ever seen can be counted on doing, unless (and sometimes even despite) being put together by a trained armorer.

I suspect that you also pay someone to change the oil in your car because they are a "trained technician". :supergrin:

mjkeat
11-25-2012, 09:06
Doing something doesn't mean you've done it correctly.

Made in Austria
11-25-2012, 10:25
I'm a fan of factory rifles. A self assembled lower w/ factory upper at the least. Factory built rifles just run better.

_______

I'd take the marred up AR and talk them into discouting it. Marred up, I'm guessing cosmetic only, means nothing in terms of function.


I am not a fan of factory rifles. I like to assemble my rifles from scratch whith quality parts with which I have made good experiences with, and heard good things about. I like a perfectly aligned gas tube and front sight post/gas block, and correct torque on the barrel nut and other critical parts.

I am sure it's rare, but I know there are factory AR's out there with loose barrel nuts and misaligned gas tubes. A friend of mine bought a new factory rifle from probably the best AR maker out there where the barrel nut was torqued down with only about 25 ft-lbs. The front sight post was canted, and the bolt carrier got stuck on its way home.

No thanks to a factory rifle for me. I assemble my own one with good parts and only with parts I want and not someone else. I am 100% sure that my rifles are properly assembled. A properly home build rifle runs as great as a good factory rifle, if not better.

mjkeat
11-25-2012, 10:37
Who produced your friends AR?

You said it best, "A properly home build rifle..." The issue is, properly assembled is not the norm. This is true w/ an improperly assembled AR from a quality company like Colt, DD, LMT, BCM, etc.

Matthew Courtney
11-25-2012, 11:08
Who produced your friends AR?

You said it best, "A properly home build rifle..." The issue is, properly assembled is not the norm. This is true w/ an improperly assembled AR from a quality company like Colt, DD, LMT, BCM, etc.

Most of the problems that we see in our carbine courses are with home built rifles. A lot of guys out there read that one can save money building a rifle, so they try and do it. The issue is that one cannot actually save money if he has to buy the tools required for a proper build. Why buy those expensive tools for a ome time build if you have a vise, a screw driver, some wrenches, and a pair of pliers?

mjkeat
11-25-2012, 11:15
Most of the problems that we see in our carbine courses are with home built rifles. A lot of guys out there read that one can save money building a rifle, so they try and do it. The issue is that one cannot actually save money if he has to buy the tools required for a proper build. Why buy those expensive tools for a ome time build if you have a vise, a screw driver, some wrenches, and a pair of pliers?

Exactly. I was one of those that thought it would be fun to do. It was fun but none of them are up to par w/ the factory lowers I've owned or used. There's always the exception though.

Made in Austria
11-25-2012, 13:03
I totally agree with you guys. Some people think it's a easy task to build a AR, but what some don't know is that there is a lot more behind it than just putting one together, it's by far no Lego kit. It's in some/maybe even in most cases more expensive than a factory build. Especially not your first build, since you have to buy all the tools, shipping costs, ordering the wrong parts, etc.

I was just talking about myself in my previous post. I would suggest everyone new to the AR world to buy a good factory rifle. I just prefer to build my own one.

longrangedog
11-26-2012, 12:29
I bought an unfired DD V1 from a private seller. No way in H--- I'm going to buy an AR or any other firearm from someone who "built" it at home. That's just crazy.

Genin
11-26-2012, 12:47
I'll be odd man out and say build one yourself. Not only is it cheaper but you learn how ARs work and run and how to fix them while you are assembling one.

By "build one" I mean put together the lower and buy a completed upper. It is not very hard and despite was some of the gun snobs say, there is not much difference between parts kits if you buy from a reputable dealer. PSA (Palmetto State Armory) is a good place to start for parts kits and uppers.

I built mine from a stripped lower and a stripped upper. I did this because I wanted to learn how the Stoner AR system works. I like to work on my own guns and be able to problem solve and fix them by myself so I felt this was an absolute necessity for me. I was pleased that it was very easy to do and there were copious videos and write ups to ensure it was done right. I did have an experienced gun smith install my barrel because I didn't have the right tool but the rest was me.

I then spent 2 1/2 months and over 3k rounds learning how to operate my AR with individual training from a couple instructors (one marine, one swat...both personal friends).

From there I was able to determine what I would want to change or modify to fit my needs. That's the route I took and I'm very happy with my AR. It gets tweaked with upgrades just about yearly lol.

Rooster Rugburn
11-26-2012, 19:05
Most of the problems that we see in our carbine courses are with home built rifles. A lot of guys out there read that one can save money building a rifle, so they try and do it. The issue is that one cannot actually save money if he has to buy the tools required for a proper build. Why buy those expensive tools for a ome time build if you have a vise, a screw driver, some wrenches, and a pair of pliers?

Do you prohibit the use of home built? If not, does the entire class stop if one fails?

I know a group who won't allow a home build. That may have changed, it's been a couple years. I really like the Chief Instructor and when he asked me what rifle I would be using, I said, "just one I threw together". The look on his face was priceless. Then I told him it was a BCM lower with a BCM upper.... it was good for a laugh. He knew me well enough to know better, but it still buzzed him. And I had a Colt as backup.

FWIW, I did do a home build I use for coyotes. I never had a problem with it, but I wanted to make the most of my training, so I didn't use it. I guess you can say I didn't trust it.

SuperSport
12-01-2012, 13:58
Congrats to ASH on the new AR. I too bit the bullet and bought my first AR and was debating between Colt's 6920 and Daniel Defense V7. I rented a bunch and got valuable info from the forums, youtube and friends with first hand experience both in the field and hobbyist. I can not say anything bad about my DDM4 V7. The middy imho shoots flat and very fun to shoot. Just picked up an Eotech EXPS2-0 and can't wait to get that zero'd in.

Buy ammo and shoot til SEG (sh1t eating grin) pegs the meter. ;)

Wolfgang
12-02-2012, 09:53
Bushmaster carbon 15, $649, buy or "no buy"?

mjkeat
12-02-2012, 10:05
Bushmaster carbon 15, $649, buy or "no buy"?

Go for it, then pick up a Tasco red dot while you're at it.

WoodenPlank
12-02-2012, 10:13
Go for it, then pick up a Tasco red dot while you're at it.

:rofl:

Bushmaster carbon 15, $649, buy or "no buy"?

If you shop around, you can probably get a S&W M&P Sport for $50-100 more. That extra money gets you a much better barrel, better BCG, forged aluminum receivers, and better overall build quality.

Skip the Bushmaster.

bmoore
12-02-2012, 10:23
Bushmaster carbon 15, $649, buy or "no buy"?

No buy.

bmoore
12-02-2012, 10:25
Go for it, then pick up a Tasco red dot while you're at it.

Wait for someone to chime in and say they have one and it does everything their buddy's Aimpoint will do. Or "seems just as good as anything else".

FireForged
12-02-2012, 10:35
Get a Colt 6920 and be done with it. As far as building a rifle... if you dont have a half dozen specific internal parts requirements, it doesnt really make sense to me.

dausmus
12-06-2012, 16:51
If you can turn a wrench and use a hammer, Id go ahead and build your own with quality parts if you want. Heck my first AR was from my own two hands and its been running flawlessly for years through all kinds of use. Theyre not hard to build correctly. But if you want factory, definately daniel defense or noveske :rock:

Tank44
12-06-2012, 23:31
I just took the AR plunge. I pick up my Stag Model 4 tomorrow. Since I really like more traditional guns, I wanted one that looked like an M16. This probably won't be my only AR.