22lr Long Range Shooting Discussion [Archive] - Glock Talk

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country85
11-25-2012, 09:10
Not sure how I want to start this thread so I guess I'll jump right in. As a kid(teenager, whatever) I can remember going out to my grandmothers property in extreme rural South Carolina with a couple friends and our trusty 22's. We would shoot at anything, pine cones, grass hoppers, birds and heck just trees in general. But the most fun I remember having is sitting on a tall hill and shooting at old tree stumps at any where from 300 to 500 yards away. Not that we hit any thing very often with marlin model 60's with open sights. We would shoot, wait too see where the round hit and adjust from there. On a good day we could "walk em out there" and hit the stump once in twenty shots or so.
Fast forward a little, I have always loved long range shooting. Everything from varmints with every thing from a 17 HMR to a 22-250. I always just knew the bullet drop from a chart and used Kentucky windage(holding over and hoping) to make the shot. But Recently I started to educate myself on MOA and MIL's to become a better shot in general.
With the company of a good ballistic calculator I've gotten pretty good. But with ammo going up in price and becoming scarce I can't afford to shoot my "big" rifles much. So when a chance encounter with a Glenfield model 25 in a pawn shop for $75 was presented I pounced on it. I put a 3-9x44 AOE Mildot scope on it, cut down and recrowned the barrel to 18 inches(the last 2 inches of the barrel and the original crown were severely pitted), and did a trigger job on it to get the pull down to 2.5 pounds. Free floated the barrel and went to the range. Gun shoots 5 in one hole at 25 yards, 1/2 inch groups at 50, and 1 to 1 3/4 groups at 100(using bulk Rem. Golden bullets).
Now to the part of all this rambling where I want to know others opinion's on. How far 1) would you shoot a 22 at a known threat or target 2) how far would you consider a 22 lethal?. Now depending on ammo I can "hit" at 200 yards with about 14.2 MOA, around 22 MOA at 250. These are just examples and I'm looking at a calculator to get them so these are ''non tested'' shots. Now on to how far a 22 is lethal? Iraqveteran888 on YouTube uses the "pine board test" to determine this. Back in WWI or WWII the US devised that if a bullet will penetrate a 1/2 inch pine board then it is capable of causing a lethal or life threatening wound.
That's all fine and dandy but it seems kind of inconsistent to me, too many factors with the wood being less dense in spots, direction of the grain and so on. So lets look at the numbers. A good Air gun will send a pellet down range with 12 foot pounds of energy. And I have taken many a small game species with air guns in both .177 and .22 caliber. I can tell you a hit to a rabbit with a .22 airgun with around 20 ft pounds of energy is pretty brutal and plenty of gun to kill something as big as a raccoon with a well placed shot. Now lets jump up to lethality on something alittle bigger. From the pine board test, the US army figured that it takes 59 ft.lbs. of energy to cause a potentially lethal wound.
From ballistic information we know that a 25 acp, with a 50 grain FMJ bullet only leaves the muzzle at around 65 ft.lbs of energy. So if we rely on the pine board test the that 59 ft.lbs is the benchmark for a potentially lethal wound, then a 22 lr stinger(on paper) has 3 times the power(energy) than a 25 acp does at the muzzle. Put the two calibers on a graph and you see that the 22 stinger doesn't even drop below 65 ft.lbs until around 300 yards out..

I know there are many other factors that play into this, but I'm just looking at foot pounds of energy mainly. I don't know if anyone will be interested in any of this but any opinions or comments are welcomed.

mongo356
11-25-2012, 11:04
Not sure about the lethality part but seems logical. I know a guy that kills coyotes (single shot) w/ sub sonic Rem hollow point 22s. Some were hit at about 40 yards. He puts bullets where they count though.

I just started the 22 long range itch myself going to try a savage mkii been hearing good things about them.

I do know my std 10/22 w/reddot drops about 7" with cci minimags and about 14" with Rem sub sonics at 100yards.

Darkangel1846
11-25-2012, 11:56
Well there are a lot of articles about 300 yard shooting contest for .22 rifles. Some of them are pretty impressive. Lethality......well I guess we'd have to talk about leathal to what. Hitting a rabbit at 300 yards would be pretty good shooting and I have no Idea what a .22 would do to the rabbit at that distance.

Jack23
11-25-2012, 13:14
I have, somewhere in one of my computers, A chart that shows the bullet drop of a high velocity .22LR from a rifle with a 20" barrel. I have been through both of my computers a couple of time and I am unable to find it. I will keep on trying.

What it shows is that from 0 to 25 yards the bullet trajectory is fairly flat. From 25 to 50 yards there is moderate bullet drop and from 50 to 100 yard the bullet drop is drastic. I have no way to validate the results of this test even if I could produce it but from my own experience and keeping that chart in mind it seems to me that to produce an accurate shot at 300 yards you would have to aim nearly straight up. And if you consider the exponential for drop-off over longer distances the 500 yard shot sounds like science fiction.

Certainly not saying it can't be done. I know that any of theses tests that you see on the internet are subject to being less that accurate but I'd sure enjoy seeing it done.

I have the Ruger 10/22 carbine and I can group 'em up in a 3 to 4" circle at 100 yards through my Leupold Rifleman scope. I don't like to walk that far any more so once I established that I can shoot my .22LR respectably at 100 yards I dialed it back to the 50 yard mark and now content myself with good targets and that distance.

Those that have given the time and patience to be able to shoot a .22 beyond 100 yard have my respect and admiration. It's not something I could do.

Batesmotel
11-25-2012, 15:08
We used to do a lot of very long range shooting with .22s. Pie tins on a hillside about 250-300 yards away. Late in the summer we could see the hits from the dust and walk them in.

Ammo selection was fun to figure out. Standard velocity was more accurate as it was more consistent but the drop was massive. High velocity rounds like Mini-Mags and Stingers did not drop as fast but they were inherently less accurate at those ranges.

RJ's Guns
11-26-2012, 00:45
I would suggest that you make some ballistics gel (do a Google search for “making ballistics gel” and you will find several links and YouTube videos) and do some tests. You can even get fancy and put various bones inside of the gel

RJ

country85
11-26-2012, 06:42
Thanks for all the comments ya'll. I'm going to the range today to try some different ammo and see what kinds of 100 yard groups I can get. With it only being 42 degree's in here in north central Indiana the results may be skewed just a bit but hopefully I'll get some viable results. I'm testing Remington thunderbolt, Remington viper, CCI stingers, and some Fiochi plated round nose(look like a copper plated thunderbolt lol) I'll post some pictures of the groupings, 100 yards is the furthest I have to shoot at my range, I may post a video up on my gun set up as well.

Bill D
11-26-2012, 19:48
Country,
Please learn the meaning of a paragraph! lol! Would make your post much easier to comprehend! lol!

arnold ziffle
11-27-2012, 02:31
cci 40gr mini maghttp://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad190/arnoldziffle/DF63CFAE-E09E-4687-9FCE-C6439B13F7DA-106-000000011DF446A6.jpg

country85
11-27-2012, 18:29
Got to the range yesterday and shot some groups. Surprisingly the cheapest ammo did the best. My gun hated Remington viper, only hit the target 2 out of 5 rounds. Remington thunder bolt grouped the best, followed by CCI stingers.


http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/Robert_Harwood/Range%20Day%20with%20the%20Zombie%20Sniper/DSCN0634.jpg

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/Robert_Harwood/Range%20Day%20with%20the%20Zombie%20Sniper/DSCN0635.jpg

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/Robert_Harwood/Range%20Day%20with%20the%20Zombie%20Sniper/DSCN0636.jpg

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/Robert_Harwood/Range%20Day%20with%20the%20Zombie%20Sniper/DSCN0638.jpg

Didn't snap a pic of the CCI stinger group but it was a little more spread out than the thunderbolt but not by much

vafish
11-28-2012, 05:50
Thanks for all the comments ya'll. I'm going to the range today to try some different ammo and see what kinds of 100 yard groups I can get. With it only being 42 degree's in here in north central Indiana the results may be skewed just a bit but hopefully I'll get some viable results. I'm testing Remington thunderbolt, Remington viper, CCI stingers, and some Fiochi plated round nose(look like a copper plated thunderbolt lol) I'll post some pictures of the groupings, 100 yards is the furthest I have to shoot at my range, I may post a video up on my gun set up as well.

Try some of the standard velocity target ammo like federal 711b, Wolf match target, Ely, and lapua.

You will have more drop at longer ranges, but your groups will be much smaller.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

ditto1958
11-28-2012, 16:57
country,
please learn the meaning of a paragraph! Lol! Would make your post much easier to comprehend! Lol!

+1 :-)

country85
12-02-2012, 22:39
Edited this to possibly make easier for some to read

Armchair Commando
12-02-2012, 23:52
Now to the part of all this rambling where I want to know others opinion's on. How far 1) would you shoot a 22 at a known threat or target 2) how far would you consider a 22 lethal?. .
1) Realistically inside 400 yards
2) 400 Yards maybe a tad more, A CCI Minimag at 300 yards is doing around 800fps with a 40 Grain Bullet, My 20 Caliber Sheridan air rifle with 10 Grain pellet traveling at 600 Fps from the muzzle is quite lethal and could very easily kill a person, So with that said i have no doubt that a 40 grain bullet ( 4X the Weight) and traveling at 1400 fps (800 Fps Faster) would have any problem killing someone if hit in the right spot!