Bullet Setback Among Service Calibers [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Sammael
11-26-2012, 04:34
Greets:

I have a question for the more enlightened folk in this section when it comes to bullet setback:

Is there one caliber (of those currently referred to as 'service calibers') that would be more susceptible to setback from repeatedly being chambered?

Speaking strictly of mass-produced, factory ammo - from the WWB pinking stuff all the way up to the favored defense loadings from Speer, Winchester, Hornady, etc.

Let me follow up by saying that I rotate my rounds so that they are not re-chambered any more times them absolutely necessary (after a few rotations, I shoot them up out at the range), but I have noticed that among 9mm/.40/.45ACP and even 10mm, the only ammo that I personally have visibly noticed setback issues with is .40 caliber.

This was with Winchester Ranger-T, and the round in question had been chambered exactly 3 times, yet the setback was easily identifiable without even comparing it against the other rounds in the mag.

Took it out, lined it up with another round out of the same box, and sure enough... It was set back enough that I put it to the side indefinitely.

So the question remains - Are certain calibers more susceptible? I would assume many factors come into play (most notably the contour of the bullet itself), but I was surprised to see it happen on a well-favored defense round like Winchester Ranger-T 165s after only being rotated through 3 times.

Granted, this was a sample size of one, which is why I defer to those more knowledgeable than I on this particular subject.

Thank you for any insight.

cowboy1964
11-26-2012, 06:18
I took apart a Ranger-T .40 round (165gr) recently. I was suprised to see it had some sealant at the case mouth. Maybe that sealant acts a bit like a lubricant and makes it more susceptible to set back?

Merkavaboy
11-26-2012, 07:00
The .357 Sig bar-none.

Leigh
11-26-2012, 08:41
So the question remains - Are certain calibers more susceptible?

Not sure about calibers but brands may be...

I have seen case setbacks in 9/40/45 CCI Blazer (aluminum) after chambering only once.

Not bashing CCI and still shoot it (if found cheaply) at the range but I tend to examine these rounds very cloesly prior to loading mags.

That said, I once seated a .38 Secial (FMJ) Blazer deeper with only slight pressure of thumb/forefinger. The ammo was at least 5-6 years old but stored in a cool/dry location.

SCmasterblaster
11-26-2012, 09:30
I dont see it with 9x19 in my G17.

teweekley
11-26-2012, 20:20
When loading my Glocks for carry, I ride the slide forward into battery. Then I check by retracting the slide slightly to make sure the extractor has a hold on the case rim. Tap the back to ensure it's in battery then holster. This helps reduce bullet setback for me.

Zombie Steve
11-26-2012, 21:06
The .357 Sig bar-none.

Agreed. Short neck, not a lot of tension there.


Among all the others, I think it has more to do with the gun and angle of feed ramp than the cartridge. I have one 1911 that really bangs rounds up the ramp, another that is much more smooth. G30 is probably the least abusive. Just my experience...

When it comes to neck tension, heavier bullets in a given caliber will have more. Just more bearing surface touching brass. Among the same weight, hollow points will tend to have more than fmj.

NEOH212
11-26-2012, 21:11
I've personally experienced it more in .40, with Gold Dot's and with Glock pistols than any other caliber.

This isn't to say the other cartridges/pistols are immune, I've just experienced it more with the above.

intecooler
11-26-2012, 21:56
Fill the case and setback isn't as much of an issue.

Tiro Fijo
11-26-2012, 23:32
When loading my Glocks for carry, I ride the slide forward into battery. Then I check by retracting the slide slightly to make sure the extractor has a hold on the case rim. Tap the back to ensure it's in battery then holster. This helps reduce bullet setback for me.


The absolutely worse thing you can do to chamber a round in a semi-auto. :wavey:

NEOH212
11-26-2012, 23:57
Fill the case and setback isn't as much of an issue.

Kind of hard to do with factory ammo. :whistling:

English
11-27-2012, 06:15
The absolutely worse thing you can do to chamber a round in a semi-auto. :wavey:

Can you explain why that is please?

English

1canvas
11-27-2012, 07:42
I haven't seen it on my .45, .40, or 357sig using Gold Dot or HSTs.

Tiro Fijo
11-27-2012, 07:59
Can you explain why that is please?

English


Let the slide slam forward, whether by "slingshotting" or hitting the slide stop (your choice).

1. it allows the round to fully chamber and there is no chance of being out of battery by a smidgen such as can happen when you "ride the slide" home

2. it also usually prevents the first shot from being out of group by an inch + causing what Massad Ayoob calls the 4 + 1 syndrome.

If one is so concerned about bullet setback then simply rotate your chambered round or measure OAL with calipers to determine if indeed it has happened.

Unless your job requires you to unchamber daily there is no need to do so except for routine lubrication/care.

clarkz71
11-27-2012, 08:00
I dont see it with 9x19 in my G17.

That's really a full disciption of ammo & gun.

Let me try, I don't see it with .40 Smith & Wesson in my G23. .:whistling:

English
11-27-2012, 08:21
Let the slide slam forward, whether by "slingshotting" or hitting the slide stop (your choice).

1. it allows the round to fully chamber and there is no chance of being out of battery by a smidgen such as can happen when you "ride the slide" home

2. it also usually prevents the first shot from being out of group by an inch + causing what Massad Ayoob calls the 4 + 1 syndrome.

If one is so concerned about bullet setback then simply rotate your chambered round or measure OAL with calipers to determine if indeed it has happened.

Unless your job requires you to unchamber daily there is no need to do so except for routine lubrication/care.

But if you do as teweekley describes, ride the slide forwards, then retract it alittle to make sure that it has engaged the extractor properly, then let it forwards, and then tap or push the slide forwards it will be properly in battery without risk of setback.

This only matters those who have to chamber and unload frequently, but for them it is better than the risk of setback. I can't comment on the 4+1 idea but if it is only an inch that is unlikely to matter for most self defense.

English

SCmasterblaster
11-27-2012, 08:30
That's really a full disciption of ammo & gun.

Let me try, I don't see it with .40 Smith & Wesson in my G23. .:whistling:

OK, wise one - WW 9mm 115gr JHP +p+ doesn't set back at all in my G17 CCW gun.

Sammael
11-27-2012, 09:11
Regarding the 9mm:

For what it's worth, I have rotated and chambered/unchambered tons of 9x19 over the years, and never once seen setback -ever. Same goes with my .45s, which I have also shot my fair share of within the last 25 or so years.

This was part of why I found it so curious as to why it could have happened like it did with the Ranger-T 165gr .40 after only 3 chamberings.

Yes, I do rotate my ammo, and yes, I try to avoid unchambering if at all possible, but I have a tendency to make my weapon safe when I come home, as I do have a little one in the house.

For those concerned about readiness, if an intruder can make it past the alarm/motion sensors/video cameras and then also make it past the dog, I certainly have time to chamber a round, and/or grab the shotgun.

Bottom line: Unless the weapon is on my person or secured in a safe, I unchamber the round - but I do try to avoid that situation if at all possible.

However, I must make one small correction to my initial post: I have seen one fairly substantial example with a 175gr Silvertip in 10mm. Not sure why I did not recollect that when I made the initial post.

Arc Angel
11-27-2012, 10:18
Over the years I've seen plenty of repeatedly chambered semi-auto rounds end up getting set back. Even with the tightest of bullet crimps it still happens. Gently riding the slide forward isn't a cardinal sin. With the cost of today's grossly overpriced civilian, 'self-defense' ammo I frequently (gently) ride top rounds forward with my support hand.

I think what we've got here is, 'a tempest in a teapot'. I can often tell by nothing more than the feel or the sound whether or not the slide has fully closed. As a precaution I, also, give the back of the slide a slap with my palm in order to insure battery.

Is accuracy really a problem? Not with a pistol used from inside 40 yards it ain't; and, assuming that precision accuracy might be called for, what is the shooter doing with a Glock, anyway? I've been outshot many times, and at equidistances, too, by some fellow standing right next to me who's using a higher end 1911 pattern. 1 1/2" 25 yard groups are not easy to produce with anybody's plastic pistol. 2 to 3" groups are what I usually see.

My own Glock groups? I can put them all inside 6 or 7"; but my rate-of-fire is much faster than most people shoot at; and it does NOT matter whether or not I load top rounds by gently riding the slide forward. Whenever you do, simply point the muzzle downrange, remember to keep that trigger finger straight and outside the guard, and slap the back of the slide. You'll be fine. ;)

fredj338
11-27-2012, 13:14
Ammo & gun specific. I see more of an issue w/ 357sig than anything else. The short neck means little case neck tension. Any round can setback during repeated chamberings. Just pay atteention to the top round OAL. If it gets 0.060" (about 1/16") shorter, put that in the practice box, pull it or toss it. You are approaching an over pressure round past that in 357sig or 40 at least. The 9mm & 45acp are more forgiving pressure wise but the 0.060" rule is still a good one to stick with.

4949shooter
11-27-2012, 14:22
Over 24 years I haven't seen bullet setback to be a problem with 9mm pistols. This is with three different guns (H&K P7M8, Smith SW99, and Sig P228). We have had guys on the "rubber gun squad" over the years who have had to unload their gun at the end of shift, place in a locker, and then reload again for next shift. I believe the lack of setback issue is due to the streamlined contour of the 9mm round. That's just my belief, so take it for what it's worth.

The ammo we have used over the years has been Remington "green box," Federal 9BP, and Speer Gold Dot.

MELE20C
11-28-2012, 09:16
When my agency adopted the G31 in 2001, we saw quite a bit of bullet set back with our Gold Dot duty ammo in .357 Sig. Haven`t seen much of it with any other caliber. As the firearms instructor, I had to put out a memo instructing officers to inspect their ammo regularly and turn in the `set-back`rounds for fresh ammo. Speer eventually got a handle on it I believe but I moved on to a different agency issuing 45`s so I didn`t continue to follow the issue.

SCmasterblaster
12-01-2012, 10:53
I wonder how many ammo maker use a sealant compound between their cases and bullets? This may prevent or slow bullet set-back.

clarkz71
12-03-2012, 13:48
OK, wise one - WW 9mm 115gr JHP +p+ doesn't set back at all in my G17 CCW gun.

Just messing with ya, the OD & FDE guys kill me though.

"My Gen4 FDE G19 9X19mm really shoots good"

That's a little much. Anyway back on topic.

I just measured all my rounds in my carry mag and
though I clear my weapon often & rotate chambered
rounds they all measure 1.130" exactly OAL.

So no set-back at all for .40 165gr GS in my BLACK G23

vafish
12-03-2012, 17:11
I find certain guns, like 1911's more prone to setback.

Never noticed a caliber issue with identical guns, ie neither my g19 or g23 seem to do it.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.