Reloading .40 for uspsa major... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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griffgil1
11-26-2012, 16:11
Ok, fairly new to reloading, and trying to build a good round for my G23 for competition (w/ Storm Lake Bbl). Problem is that I am getting really big SD numbers, and the velocities are all over the board, i.e. no consistency. This is the case regardless of the powder I'm using (HS-6, Longshot, Pwr. Pistol). I am pretty sure it's not the powder charge, 'cuz I'm measuring about every 3-5 throws on the scale and making sure all are within +/-.1 grain of desired charge. Loading on a new T-7, with new dies. De-priming and re-sizing separately. Think I'm doing everything right, but.......? Any advise would be mighty appreciated.

F106 Fan
11-26-2012, 17:06
We could probably use some facts!

Things like bullet type and weight, powder charge for various powders, OAL, primer manufacturer, etc. Chrono data like average velocity, extreme spread, SD, etc for each load would probably help.

I recently bought a T7 for precision rifle reloading. It's a great press!

Richard

Zombie Steve
11-26-2012, 17:29
Welcome to GlockTalk Reloading.

You're using fairly slow powders... my first guess would be you're not pushing them hard enough. They tend to burn more consistently on the upper end of the data. Light loads with mid to slow burning powders will give you the results you're reporting. It's not like there's a ton of room in the case, so I doubt it's position sensitivity.

:dunno:

Like Richard is saying, if you post the load you're using, it will help us help you.

I suppose it could be important for making sure you're major power factor, but I normally don't sweat big velocity spreads on pistol loads if the load is accurate at 25 yards. Rifle is a different story.

fredj338
11-26-2012, 18:08
With a 180gr bullet, you only need what, 930fps, easily done w/ PP, HS6 or WSF. I would relegate LS to higher vel loads. If you are trying to get to major w/ lighter bullets, go with WSF, it will give you better ES in vel w/ lighter bullets, works well for 180gr too.

griffgil1
11-26-2012, 19:02
More details:

Loading according to Hornady manual and trying for 950 fps. OAL on all rounds is 1.125

180 gr. HAP bullet
Federal Brass
WSPP

Power Pistol: 6.1 gr, Longshot: 5.9 gr, HS-6: 6.8 gr

Power Pistol results: SD=13.5, ES=52, Avg=923
Longshot results: SD=17.5, ES=55.7, Avg=923
HS-6 results: SD=17.75, ES=61.4, Avg=896

Interesting that the averages are considerably lower than the manual's 950 fps at these power weights.

Thanks again for you'all's help. :supergrin:

griffgil1
11-26-2012, 19:05
Also, the powder charge levels for these powders are kind of mid-range charges- again, according to Hornady manual.

F106 Fan
11-26-2012, 19:08
Interesting that the averages are considerably lower than the manual's 950 fps at these power weights.


That is pretty typical. I have NEVER gotten close to what is in the manual. I suppose it could be barrel length, primer selection, any of a number of things. But I am ALWAYS low!

Richard

F106 Fan
11-26-2012, 19:15
If you want to use HS-6, kick it up a little. Try something around 7.0 or a little more. I know Hornady maxes HS-6 at 7.2 gr but Speer #14 says 7.3 is MIN and 8.2 is MAX.

It's always interesting to see how different manuals come up with different loads.

Now, the Hornady book is specific to the HAP bullet whereas Speer is only talking about 180 gr GDHP SB, TMJ or 180 gr GDHP. It's also interesting that Speer at 8.2 gr only specs 942 fps.

Nevertheless, it would seem that you could pour in some more powder.

Richard

WiskyT
11-26-2012, 19:32
Your ES and SD are not high. It sounds like you're trying to game your loads to exactly a 950fps. You need to up your load so that the low shots are still high enough to make the PF you want. Personally, I would use a faster powder. Something more along the lines of HP38/WW231 or Bullseye will get you the velocity you want with a lower ES so your rounds will chrono more predictably.

Colorado4Wheel
11-26-2012, 20:15
I would choose a faster powder. But up the charges on the ones you got till you hit 950fps. I bet they will tighten up.

griffgil1
11-26-2012, 20:42
Thanks for the responses and good info. The main reason I "feel" like the ES and SD are high is because I put three different brands of factory ammo through the chrono
(UMC 180gr. Fiocchi 165gr. Federal 180gr.) and it was much more consistent, with lower ES and SD numbers. I know I'm not going to hit 950 fps on the nose every time, but would just like my rounds to have similar consistency to factory- heck, if not, what's the point of reloading?? Can't say that I'm doing it to really save $$ (a handful of cents per round), if I consider the value of my time.

Also, a friend of mine, with way more experience in reloading, suggested that my brass may play a factor here. So far I am using brass picked up on the range, so it may have inconsistent measurements, depending on how many times it has been reloaded. Any opinions on how this could effect my consistency? I do sort and load according to mfg.

WiskyT
11-26-2012, 20:46
Yes, mixed brass will give higher ES and SD. The different internal volumes and neck tension will cause bigger spreads.

Boxerglocker
11-26-2012, 20:52
Checked my logs from when I loaded .40 S&W for a G23. 7.2g of HS-6 and 6.4 of Power pistol with a Berrys plated 180g RN is what got me 950 Fps . Both at the same 1.125 OAL and both confirmed at stationed matches for IDPA and USPSA.

F106 Fan
11-26-2012, 20:54
Can't say that I'm doing it to really save $$ (a handful of cents per round), if I consider the value of my time.


You won't be saving very much money using Hornady bullets! Look at Precision Delta if you can deal with FMJ as opposed to HP:
http://precisiondelta.com/product.php?indx=5

If you absolutely have to have JHP, consider Montana Gold Bullets:
https://www.montanagoldbullet.com/pricelist.html

Your time to load on a T7 will be really ugly! It is only marginally better than loading on a single stage press. As I said earlier, I use a T7 for precision rifle but I'm using a Dillon 1050 for .45 ACP and a 650 for everything else (9mm, .223 and, coming soon, .40 S&W). I know the cost of a 650 is outrageous and there are other alternatives but if production rate is a consideration, a lot of folks around here are using one for that very reason.


Also, a friend of mine, with way more experience in reloading, suggested that my brass may play a factor here. So far I am using brass picked up on the range, so it may have inconsistent measurements, depending on how many times it has been reloaded. Any opinions on how this could effect my consistency? I do sort and load according to mfg.

I would put it in the 'maybe' category and promptly forget about it. See what happens when you pour in some more powder. Or, as WiskyT said, move to a faster powder. When I start loading .40 S&W after the first of the year, I will be looking for about 990 FPS to match a Federal LE load. I plan to use WSF for the powder. It looks like I might get close.

Richard

griffgil1
11-26-2012, 21:17
I will take the advice and up the charge for the powders I do have, and also try out some faster powders. Just so y'all don't think I am a complete idiot, I got a really good deal on the Hornady HAP bullets- price came out to about 15 cents a piece, which is only a few cents more than Montana Gold pricing. But hey, if I kept researching I might have found the MG bullets for less- anyway, water under the proverbial bridge, and I do like these bullets.

marvin
11-26-2012, 22:59
Checked my logs from when I loaded .40 S&W for a G23. 7.2g of HS-6 and 6.4 of Power pistol with a Berrys plated 180g RN is what got me 950 Fps . Both at the same 1.125 OAL and both confirmed at stationed matches for IDPA and USPSA.

6.1 grains of power pistol gave me 950 fps out my glock 24. 6.4 grains would be right on the money for a G23.

mixed brass will cause your ES and SD to vary more, but your numbers are still pretty good.

fredj338
11-26-2012, 23:53
More details:

Loading according to Hornady manual and trying for 950 fps. OAL on all rounds is 1.125

180 gr. HAP bullet
Federal Brass
WSPP

Power Pistol: 6.1 gr, Longshot: 5.9 gr, HS-6: 6.8 gr

Power Pistol results: SD=13.5, ES=52, Avg=923
Longshot results: SD=17.5, ES=55.7, Avg=923
HS-6 results: SD=17.75, ES=61.4, Avg=896

Interesting that the averages are considerably lower than the manual's 950 fps at these power weights.

Thanks again for you'all's help. :supergrin:
Guns vary, Hornady is using a 4" 4006, you are shooting in a G23, the numbers are quite close. You can NOT compare book data & expect exact vel numbers, even if the platforms are identical. Your SD numbers are what is important, in the teens is quite good. As WT notes, mixed brass is always going to give higher spreads.

ron59
11-27-2012, 09:12
I didn't see anyone mention it, but maybe it's not your load that's the problem, but how you are using the chrono?

When I was shooting at it with it maybe 10 feet away, my numbers were pretty random as well. Now I do it from more like 20-25 feet away. You have to be careful not to shoot the chrono, but numbers are more consistent.

But if you're looking for EXACT 950 all the time, that's not a resonable expectation. I know with my 147gr 9mm rounds, when I had an average of 896, that was couched within a low of 881 and a high of 920. The standard deviation of that batch was something like 14. I have had standard deviations of 6 or 7 when I was using VV N320, but with TG it's usually around 10 or so?