308. Have a good load, but its way low [Archive] - Glock Talk

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cfec2008
11-26-2012, 17:16
I loaded 5 308 last tight. Win brass, cci primer, hornady innerlock 150 grain. IMR 4064 43.3 gn. This load shot good, but it is 4 inches lower than factory loads by federal with nosler ballistic tip. My Hornady book says that the loads I made are at 2600 fps. Are my reloads that much slower than the factory that they shoot low? Or is there another reason? Thanks.

fredj338
11-26-2012, 17:53
Well, most factory 150gr 308 are doing quite a bit better than 2600fps. Even then, every rifle is diff, every load is diff. It's not uncommon to have diff bullets @ identical vel shoot to slightly diff POI. Just adjust your sights or get the vel up a bit closer to your factory loads. Without a chronograph though, you are just WAG.

CanMan
11-26-2012, 17:56
I loaded 5 308 last tight. Win brass, cci primer, hornady innerlock 150 grain. IMR 4064 43.3 gn. This load shot good, but it is 4 inches lower than factory loads by federal with nosler ballistic tip. My Hornady book says that the loads I made are at 2600 fps. Are my reloads that much slower than the factory that they shoot low? Or is there another reason? Thanks.

My guess is that the manual errors on the side of caution regarding powder charges/velocity. Seating depth, BC, sizing, case volume, on and on play critical roles when reloading for rifle cartridges...one way to work up a load that approaches factory ballistics is to get yourself an iteration of this;http://www.oehler-research.com/images/oehler2.jpg (http://www.oehler-research.com/model35p.html)

Several companies make good ones and they're a valuable tool to have. I've spent more $$ on equipment chasing that perfect rifle load than I care to admit. Haven't reached perfection yet. Handgun reloading seems like a plesure sometimes!! I'm glad your load is shooting good. I've been known to add elevation to the scope and be happy if I'm shooting an accurate load. Looks like Fred & I think alike :)

cfec2008
11-26-2012, 18:40
Well, most factory 150gr 308 are doing quite a bit better than 2600fps. Even then, every rifle is diff, every load is diff. It's not uncommon to have diff bullets @ identical vel shoot to slightly diff POI. Just adjust your sights or get the vel up a bit closer to your factory loads. Without a chronograph though, you are just WAG.
Thanks, I appreciate your reply. Ill bump my load up and see what happens. If that doesn't work I will just adj my scope.

Boxerglocker
11-26-2012, 19:55
Thanks, I appreciate your reply. Ill bump my load up and see what happens. If that doesn't work I will just adj my scope.

I would venture to guess your on a "Low" node in the powder range for your bullet. Have you done a ladder test for your gun?

cfec2008
11-26-2012, 20:44
I would venture to guess your on a "Low" node in the powder range for your bullet. Have you done a ladder test for your gun?


I have only shot two different loads with my gun today. Varget and IMR 4064. The Varget didn't shoot well at all. I was using a bipod, and bags in the back. Neither were max loads. Hornady book only gives me one load higher than what I used with IMR, and it only gives 2700 fps for it. Im not sure that 100 fps will move my poi up four inches. I wish I had a chronograph to see what my gun is really doing instead of just guessing what its doing by looking at the manual. IF I wasn't planning on using these for hunting I wouldn't worry about the speed any. They punch paper just fine. I just finished loading up ten more of the imr that shot good. So I can use those til I find something that will be a little faster. Id like to be up to 2800. Just want to be safe with it.

fredj338
11-26-2012, 22:57
Id like to be up to 2800. Just want to be safe with it.

Again, w/o a chrono, you are just guessing on vel. Your rifle is not the test rifle in the manual & even guns of identical make & bbl length can vary 100fps+ w/ identical loads. If you don't want to buy a chrono, find a guy @ the range & borrow one, it's an eye opener for most reloaders.:supergrin:

cfec2008
11-27-2012, 17:53
Again, w/o a chrono, you are just guessing on vel. Your rifle is not the test rifle in the manual & even guns of identical make & bbl length can vary 100fps+ w/ identical loads. If you don't want to buy a chrono, find a guy @ the range & borrow one, it's an eye opener for most reloaders.:supergrin:

Fred, Do you usually find that the loads you make are close to what the manual says or low or high? Or sometimes both?

dougader
11-27-2012, 18:19
If you have more than one reloading manual, you'll see some differences in the data. Your 43 grains of IMR 4064 is a starting load in the Speer 14 manual... different bullets, though.

As to your question about how personal loads stack up against what the manual says, it goes both ways. Some times my loads are faster than what the manual shows and sometimes they are slower. A chronograph answers a lot of questions. If I find a load going quite a bit more than what the manual states, then I start paying attention to cartridge overall length, primers, etc., because it might mean my load is higher pressure than the manual data. Or, my gun might just be "faster."

You change one thing (gun, primer, cases, powder, COAL, etc) and you're already departing from the manual. The manuals are suggested starts and stops. There are no guarantees.

But I do think you should be able to do better than 2600 fps with a 150 spitzer in 308 win with both 4064 and Varget.

SARDG
11-28-2012, 19:49
Again, w/o a chrono, you are just guessing on vel... ...If you don't want to buy a chrono, find a guy @ the range & borrow one, it's an eye opener for most reloaders.:supergrin:

Fred, Do you usually find that the loads you make are close to what the manual says or low or high? Or sometimes both?
cfec- you are fighting the chrono idea. They're 100 bucks - it's the way to go and I wouldn't reload without one.

cfec2008
11-28-2012, 21:05
cfec- you are fighting the chrono idea. They're 100 bucks - it's the way to go and I wouldn't reload without one.
ok Im gona break down and look for a chrony. This reloading keeps costing me lol.

cfec2008
11-28-2012, 21:11
If you have more than one reloading manual, you'll see some differences in the data. Your 43 grains of IMR 4064 is a starting load in the Speer 14 manual... different bullets, though.

As to your question about how personal loads stack up against what the manual says, it goes both ways. Some times my loads are faster than what the manual shows and sometimes they are slower. A chronograph answers a lot of questions. If I find a load going quite a bit more than what the manual states, then I start paying attention to cartridge overall length, primers, etc., because it might mean my load is higher pressure than the manual data. Or, my gun might just be "faster."

You change one thing (gun, primer, cases, powder, COAL, etc) and you're already departing from the manual. The manuals are suggested starts and stops. There are no guarantees.

But I do think you should be able to do better than 2600 fps with a 150 spitzer in 308 win with both 4064 and Varget.
Doug, I have a sierra manual that says I can push their 150 grain bullets to 2900 fps. I found it by looking for powders that I have that aren't listed in the Hornady manual that are listed in the Sierra manual. I have H335, Accurate 2230, H4350, and IMR 4831. The h335 and Accurate 2230 are listed in the Sierra manual, but im afraid to use them with the Hornady bullet. The reason im so dead set on these bullets is because I got 500 of them for free when I bought the Hornady lock and load single stage press. I just don't want to go buy sierra bullets when I have a ton of these already. Can I use Sierra data with the Hornady bullet? Be great if I could.

fredj338
11-28-2012, 22:38
Fred, Do you usually find that the loads you make are close to what the manual says or low or high? Or sometimes both?

Depends on the manual & the cartridge. I find the Speer manual closest to what I actuall get on the chronograph, after adjusting for bbl length. Point though, you can still be as much as 150fps diff than the book. All guns are that much diff & most of us are not ever using exact components listed. All 150gr 308 bullets are NOT alike, not plug & play, & act diff in diff guns.
SO using one data source w/ a diff bullet is not a problem, just use starting data & work it up. Manuals are guides not bibles. What works in their test paltform is diff than my rifle is diff than your rifle. You always want to work the loads up.

SARDG
11-28-2012, 22:39
ok Im gona break down and look for a chrony. This reloading keeps costing me lol.
:) Take care of your equipment, reload until you croak, and amortize the costs over those decades. :cool: There's a recent chrono thread on here so check that out for ideas.

Somewhere on here too, are pics of Hoser's setup. I'm pretty sure he has more in the benches and shelves than many of us have in actual reloading hardware... :shocked:

WeeWilly
11-28-2012, 23:08
I loaded 5 308 last tight. Win brass, cci primer, hornady innerlock 150 grain. IMR 4064 43.3 gn. This load shot good, but it is 4 inches lower than factory loads by federal with nosler ballistic tip. My Hornady book says that the loads I made are at 2600 fps. Are my reloads that much slower than the factory that they shoot low? Or is there another reason? Thanks.

I load a lot of IMR 4064 in 308, it is my favorite powder (notwithstanding its metering characteristics).

Your numbers seem spot on 150gr, 43gr, 2600fps. It is a start load level as noted above and as such factory loads will usually come in higher in velocity and likely quite a bit higher in POI. You can push those 150gr pills up closer to 2900 if you choose, but to get real close you will be compressing the powder pretty hard in most cases. The suggestion of loading a ladder is a good one, you will find a node somewhere in there that makes nice tight groups.

GIockGuy24
11-29-2012, 08:38
I find it difficult to load, "too much" IMR-4064 in 308 Winchester. It would really become compressed and spill out of the case most of the time before you get an overcharge.

Here is load data from IMR.

IMR old load data

http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/308win.php


IMR newer load data

http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/308win-2005apr03.php


I find their older old data to be right on. Their newer load data is over the top and might be computer generated. I'm not sure that much powder could fit in the case.