No wonder why XM/M193 is so inaccurate! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Gunnut 45/454
11-30-2012, 15:52
I bought 1000 pulled Surplus 55gr FMJ's about a year ago.
I got the bug to go ahead an weight them for deviation in weight!! Boy was I surprised. I guess maybe I'm spoiled by using quality bullets and being picky on my casting. No wonder the required accuracy for the M16 was 4 MOA at 100 meters! My deviation of the about 700 bullets left was anywhere from 54.0gr all the way up to 55.9 gr. Add this to the powder deviations guarenteed in mass loaded ammo an it's no surprise they couldn't get better then 4 MOA. To me I will not put up with any deviation on commercial bullet of more then +/- .3 gr ! If I get more then that I will not buy those bullets again. Example Privi 198 gr FMJBT I had zero deviation, Nosler BT's again zero to .1gr etc. My cast bullets I keep to the +/- .3 gr Max.:whistling:

fredj338
11-30-2012, 17:43
Well it is a govt contracted item, you would expect better? Most FMJ will vary more than a quality SP or HP/match bullet. Still, I can get better than 3MOA w/ such ammo in my M&P. Even that amount of wt variation would not affect 100yd accuracy much. Now out @ 300, things would start to get ugly.

bfoosh006
11-30-2012, 21:53
If you would like another example of how much difference a better bullet makes.... try this ammo, it shoots groups 2/5 the size of XM193....

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/953830473/federal-american-eagle-ammunition-223-remington-50-grain-tipped-varmint

I got lucky and bought some when it was $6.99/20.

dkf
12-01-2012, 13:16
So the US military spends billions of dollars a year on certified "mil-spec" over priced stuff but has their Lake City plant put out junk bullets that are well outside normal industry standards? Makes a lot of sense, but it is government we are talking about here.

fredj338
12-02-2012, 01:04
So the US military spends billions of dollars a year on certified "mil-spec" over priced stuff but has their Lake City plant put out junk bullets that are well outside normal industry standards? Makes a lot of sense, but it is government we are talking about here.

Consider govt contracts go to lowest bidder. They have to make up the money by cutting corners. SO they make the min that gets them by. The private sector stuff ahs to be better or people won't by it. Sad but oh so very true.:steamed:

dkf
12-02-2012, 10:37
The Lake City ammo plant is supposed to be government owned but labor it is subcontracted out. I have seen some of inspection and certifications involved in the machining field for military parts and priced military spec items. It just does not make sense that have such "tight" and costly standards they want met only to have loose tolerences on something as important as bullets. I don't see a reason they could not be more consistent and closer to what most major bullet manufacturers put out every day.

fredj338
12-02-2012, 13:47
Because they only have to meet a pretty generous govt std. The private sector is far pickier w/ their hard earned $$. Govt prints the money it needs, the rest of us have to work for ours.

EL_NinO619
12-04-2012, 00:58
Because they only have to meet a pretty generous govt std. The private sector is far pickier w/ their hard earned $$. Govt prints the money it needs, the rest of us have to work for ours.

^Exactly what he said. Also I don't know the modern round per body count today, but it is so high that accuracy really does not matter since most battles are a barrage of suppressive fire. I am sure the XM118lr has much better quality control, as those rounds are meant for one shot one kill.

Blaster
12-09-2012, 07:43
I thought the stuff that makes it to the commercial market XM193 was ammo that failed QC for one reason or another.

Boxerglocker
12-09-2012, 09:39
XM193 Is a MIL-SPEC 55g 5.56 round designed to give mediocre at best performance in MIL-SPEC 1-7 twist Govt profile M4's.

It's not the same as .223 Remington and I personally don't expect it to perform well in that platform. I've group tested lots of it and find it adequate for ranges out to 200 yards. I'm curious to see how it will fair in the new .223 Wylde chambered 18 inch 1-8upper I'm building for 3 gun. I think the twist will make a difference on how it fairs.

Gunnut 45/454
12-09-2012, 10:23
This was probably why there was a big push to get better ammo pretty much ditching the 62 gr loads for the OTM's . Cause from what I hear the 62gr FMJ isn't much better as far as accuracy. Don't know casue I haven't shot any. This is why my go to load for HD/SD is the 69 gr SEI. Good balance for wt./velocity and very accurate in my AR's and Bolt gun. My fall back is the 63 gr SEI SP. :supergrin:

Boxerglocker
12-09-2012, 12:11
IMO, for a civilian the reality is...selection a HD/SD 5.56/.223 round for the most part insignificant. Mostly likely, at distances you will encounter a threat, within the boundaries of most peoples homes/properties. If your choice is a rifle over-penetration is more of a concern rather than MOA accuracy inside distances of 50 yards. I use Winchester Ranger .223 64gr Power-Points for my primary HD/SD magazine for that reason based on the decisions by my local LEO departments with the same concerns. Plus I got most of my stash of it from a few of the local officers that attend our rifle matches, a box here a box there. :supergrin: