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ArrowJ
11-30-2012, 22:07
Is there any reason I should not construct my own powder baffle for the powder measure that comes with the 550B? I saw one for sale so I assume it does not come with one. I have a piece of tin I could fashion one from. Could someone that has a baffle measure it for me?

PCJim
11-30-2012, 22:37
The powder hopper already has a baffle installed in it. No need for another IMO.

WeeWilly
11-30-2012, 23:04
The powder hopper already has a baffle installed in it. No need for another IMO.

I agree. A long time ago they didn't now they do.

ArrowJ
12-01-2012, 00:05
All the better, thanks!

Colorado4Wheel
12-01-2012, 06:17
A good powder baffle creates a chamber under the baffle that is only filled through two smaller holes on the side. Hard to describe, easy to recognize when you see it. The Dillon has a bar across the chamber but no true baffel. A baffel always has a little air pocket/void right under the top part of the V in the baffel.

I had one at one time. No big deal with most powders. I never thought it was worth the money I paid for loading the powders I use.

Three-Five-Seven
12-01-2012, 07:39
The Powder measure on my Dillon press is of the new variety -- it has a powder baffle bridge between the two screws that hold the hopper in place (i.e. it is an integral part of the hopper tube). I've run Titegroup with powder above this baffle and taken it down to below the baffle and hopper tube during a session. Checking throw weights every twenty rounds, or so, I have yet to detect any variation in charge weight (i.e. charge has been accurate to 1/10 grain each time I've checked it).

It might be the powder I've used, but I can see no benefit to the consistency of charge weight associated with the baffle.

ArrowJ
12-01-2012, 12:41
So can a standard baffle be used with the built in quasi baffle? If so I would still be interested in the interior diameter of the measure...it gives me a project (however useless) ;)

WeeWilly
12-01-2012, 12:50
So can a standard baffle be used with the built in quasi baffle? If so I would still be interested in the interior diameter of the measure...it gives me a project (however useless) ;)

The baffles I originally bought from Uniquetek will fit inside the new style hoppers, can't speak for any other brand.

FWIW, I have loaded a lot of different powders and tried with and without the Uniquetek baffles in my new style hoppers and frankly I could not measure any difference. From my experience, the consistency of powder drops is first the powder itself (i.e. the grain size mainly) and then consistency of operation. I read all about how guys get consistent throws with Unique or even more, ah, interesting something like IMR 4064 and my conclusion is always they need a new scale. Just an opinion.

ArrowJ
12-01-2012, 12:51
I want to make a baffle dang it. Somebody lie to me :)

F106 Fan
12-01-2012, 14:36
I want to make a baffle dang it. Somebody lie to me :)

It won't hurt to add one.

But considering that they are available for $8 from UniqueTek, I don't see the purpose in making one.

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1278

Richard

ArrowJ
12-01-2012, 14:50
Well, I have two reasons. $8 > $0 and I want to make something, and I think my skill level might be equal to the task, maybe.

WiskyT
12-01-2012, 16:26
I don't think a baffle will do anything. But, it's not some kind of black magic voodoo making one. I think you should just snip the tin, or even an aluminum soda can, to mimic a picture of a uniquetek one you find online. Then you can try it out and report on any differences you find.

Baffles stop surges. They dampen things that are moving. Powder in a measure is basically static, it's standing still. I think a baffle is something that looks like it would make a difference, but in reality, it doesn't.

F106 Fan
12-01-2012, 16:43
One thing the baffle will do is keep the pressure pushing the powder into the bar somewhat independent of how much powder is in the hopper. I don't know that the baffle works better than the factory arrangement but other powder measures have had baffles for decades.

Actually, the math of forming the parabola where the plane intersects the cylinder at an angle is very interesting. If someone's interested in that sort of thing. I used to be, back around 1969.

Richard

Colorado4Wheel
12-01-2012, 17:20
Actually, the math of forming the parabola where the plane intersects the cylinder at an angle is very interesting. If someone's interested in that sort of thing. I used to be, back around 1969.

Richard

Exactly , not a simple thing. If you want to make one make it out of thin cardboard first and just experiment. Got an Cereal Box?

WiskyT
12-01-2012, 17:42
Exactly , not a simple thing. If you want to make one make it out of thin cardboard first and just experiment. Got an Cereal Box?

The pictures of all the ones online are just that, simple.

PCJim
12-01-2012, 19:01
Baffles are marketed under the premise that they will provide more consistent powder drops/throws. I once intentionally ran one of my 550b powder hoppers until the last bit of powder was dropped, weighing those last drops on my very trusty 5-0-5 beam scale. Until the final partial drop, the drops all weighed the same.

While I don't recall the powder being used during that experiment (I think it was WST), I do vividly recall my astonishment with the consistency of the weight of those last drops. I had fully expected their weights to drop off.

The Dillon hopper does not need any help to maintain the 550B's reputation as a consistent powder measure.

SARDG
12-01-2012, 19:06
The pictures of all the ones online are just that, simple.
The pictures are simple, the concept seems simple... but the size and angle have been figured out pretty well by UniqueTek. You kind of drop it in the hopper from the top, slightly squeezing the outside of the hopper and it drops into the right place and stays there like a champ, locked in, seemingly forever. If you try to push it in, it will only scratch up the inside of the hopper.

I tried (completely) polishing the lower/inside of the measure (Part # 22273) with a Dremel and Flitz because I "read on the internet" that that could help consistency. When I didn't notice any particular difference from that, I bought the UniqueTek baffles and polished them before installing. Dunno... right now, at my 3.6 gr throw of N320 (which meters well in the first place) I am at +0/-.1gr - when checked my throws are mostly 3.6, but some are 3.5. Since my load spread is .5 gr, I'm happy to have that accuracy - but that accuracy is fleeting and can easily suffer from inconsistent press operation (user error).

I think UniqueTek has the baffle documentation online.

I will not be removing mine to try to reverse-engineer them for other's construction of something so cheap. Try polishing the part number mentioned above, all the way down through the passage that goes to the powder bar.

Colorado4Wheel
12-01-2012, 22:24
The pictures of all the ones online are just that, simple.

Creating the angle is the non simple part. Besides that its pretty basic.

WiskyT
12-02-2012, 06:06
Creating the angle is the non simple part. Besides that its pretty basic.

Angle of what? They are just bent pieces of plastic or metal with a couple of wholes in them. You make it sound like one of those vortex things that is supposed to double your fuel mileage.

Colorado4Wheel
12-02-2012, 06:20
Angle of what? They are just bent pieces of plastic or metal with a couple of wholes in them. You make it sound like one of those vortex things that is supposed to double your fuel mileage.

You just love to argue with me. Don't you?

The radius of the cut is very precise. It's not a simple radius. It follows the curve of the tube perfectly to seal it from leaks. I have tried to cut that angle/curve. Its not a simple angle to draw free hand correctly to get that tight leak free fit. If it leaks around that angle too much then you don't create the separate chamber under the baffle.

Btw the sky here in Colorado is usually Blue. With little white puffs. Want to argue about that as well? How seem bored.

Colorado4Wheel
12-02-2012, 06:26
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/296102_.html

Here you go.

WiskyT
12-02-2012, 06:34
You just love to argue with me. Don't you?

The radius of the cut is very precise. It's not a simple radius. It follows the curve of the tube perfectly to seal it from leaks. I have tried to cut that angle/curve. Its not a simple angle to draw free hand correctly to get that tight leak free fit. If it leaks around that angle too much then you don't create the separate chamber under the baffle.

Btw the sky here in Colorado is usually Blue. With little white puffs. Want to argue about that as well? How seem bored.

You must have pulled an allnighter. Did Zombie post a youtube video of you with obscenities sharpied on your face again?

Leaks? Seriously, the thing has holes in it so that the powder will "leak" through the baffle to get to the bottom. It's not separating the hydrogen and oxygen in a liquid fueled rocket tank.

WiskyT
12-02-2012, 06:42
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/296102_.html

Here you go.

Yes, I see what you mean. Your link is excellent!

I made one kind of like this, but I cut up a milk jug and used that. It took a few tries to get the oval shape correct, but it worked great for years.

:wavey:

Colorado4Wheel
12-02-2012, 06:48
The ports in the baffle are controlled :to create a void in the middle of the chamber and only low powder to enter the chamber from the two ports on the side. The amount of powder in the area below the baffle remains constant as a result. By default it has a little air pocket right over the powder measure chamber in inch or so above the chamber. That is what a proper baffle does. If it leaks around the curve to much you don't get that. Doesn't have to be perfect for most powders. But if you want it right then you need the ellipse that Whisky seems to dislike so much.

WiskyT
12-02-2012, 07:14
The ports in the baffle are controlled :to create a void in the middle of the chamber and only low powder to enter the chamber from the two ports on the side. The amount of powder in the area below the baffle remains constant as a result. By default it has a little air pocket right over the powder measure chamber in inch or so above the chamber. That is what a proper baffle does. If it leaks around the curve to much you don't get that. Doesn't have to be perfect for most powders. But if you want it right then you need the ellipse that Whisky seems to dislike so much.

Then why do they all have different sized HOLES in them? There is simply nothing to support your idea that these things are some kind of PhD level fluid dynamics project here. And, different powders flow at a different rate, dramatically so. So, you would definitely need a different baffle for stick powder than you would for AA#5 which flows like mercury.

Colorado4Wheel
12-02-2012, 08:00
The hole is not the important part. The cavity above the hole created by a proper fitting baffle is the important part. Jeez.

unclebob
12-02-2012, 08:22
Powder baffles are for keeping a more uniform amount of pressure pushing down on the filling of the powder bar, bushing, chamber or what have you. So that it is the same amount of pressure if the powder measure is just about empty or full. I think you would see more of a change if you had a powder hopper that could hold 100 lbs. of powder and when it was about empty. The angle or the opening has nothing to do with it. Itís just to keep the powder weight pushing down under the baffle the same, if the hopper is full or about empty.
I donít believe if the baffles did not work in some shape or form that the press manufactures would not install them in there powder measurers. It would cut down on their overhead expenses.

F106 Fan
12-02-2012, 09:46
Creating the angle is the non simple part. Besides that its pretty basic.

Here is a rather lengthy discussion about creating the ellipse. Sorry I said parabola earlier, it's an ellipse. It is simply the intersection of a plane and a cylinder.

http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=3973269

I'm working on something else at the moment but I might get back to the ellipse problem in a couple of weeks. These kinds of things intrigue me.

But if I wanted a baffle, I would just buy one.

Richard

MAC702
12-02-2012, 09:52
Baffles are marketed under the premise that they will provide more consistent powder drops/throws. I once intentionally ran one of my 550b powder hoppers until the last bit of powder was dropped, weighing those last drops on my very trusty 5-0-5 beam scale. Until the final partial drop, the drops all weighed the same.

While I don't recall the powder being used during that experiment (I think it was WST), I do vividly recall my astonishment with the consistency of the weight of those last drops. I had fully expected their weights to drop off.

The Dillon hopper does not need any help to maintain the 550B's reputation as a consistent powder measure.

I did the same with AA #2 powder, loading .40 S&W on my XL650 (same powder measure). I could not believe that EVERY charge up until the last partial was dead on, weighed on the Dillon electronic scale.

All six of my Dillon powder measures have the built-in baffle right above the meter. Are there older ones that didn't?

Boxerglocker
12-02-2012, 10:42
The hole is not the important part. The cavity above the hole created by a proper fitting baffle is the important part. Jeez.

Yup, Aero dynamic theory. That cavity is what in essence supports the Uniquetek Marketing statement:

"Provides a uniform flow of gunpowder to the powder bar, regardless of the powder level in the hopper"

Colorado4Wheel
12-02-2012, 10:44
AA#2 meters lime water. Most other powders also meter fine. Unique is not as good. But with a well polished lower area and the Uniquetek baffle it measures perfectly. As long as you don't bump it several times between throws. Never tried it with out the baffle and the polishing job.

ArrowJ
12-02-2012, 11:27
Well just forget it then. I will make a Christmas ornament instead :)

PsychoKnight
12-02-2012, 12:03
Arrow:
The consensus is, you just aren't allowed to make your own.

For my LnL AP measure, I found a cannister style toothpick container with a soft plastic lid which fit just right in the hopper. I put it on a piece of scrap wood, used a 45 case and hammer like a cookie cutter and punched a nice, clean, perfectly round hole in the center (I made sure to size the case first, for the compulsive disordered among us, and there are many, as you can tell by this thread).

Now if you disregard all of our collective advice and insist on proceeding with making your own powder hopp baffle, you take full and sole responsibility for the consequences. Just don't post about it, or else these guys will have more crap to say. . .

ArrowJ
12-02-2012, 12:16
I am just having fun, it sounds like it is not really needed.

OJ.
12-02-2012, 13:18
Arrow:
The consensus is, you just aren't allowed to make your own.

For my LnL AP measure, I found a cannister style toothpick container with a soft plastic lid which fit just right in the hopper. I put it on a piece of scrap wood, used a 45 case and hammer like a cookie cutter and punched a nice, clean, perfectly round hole in the center (I made sure to size the case first, for the compulsive disordered among us, and there are many, as you can tell by this thread).

Now if you disregard all of our collective advice and insist on proceeding with making your own powder hopp baffle, you take full and sole responsibility for the consequences. Just don't post about it, or else these guys will have more crap to say. . .

My LNL Measure came with a baffle, I bought a used on that did not have one and after a quick call to Hornady they sent me one for free :)

WiskyT
12-02-2012, 13:49
I am just having fun, it sounds like it is not really needed.

That's just it. It CAN be fun. Make one and have your kids make them too. Hang the extras on the Christmas tree. If you're a Jew, hang them on your neighbor's tree. Just don't hang them on the tree at your town hall or the aclu will slap you with a law suit.

Or, it could be complex than cold fusion. In which case you are better off leaving it alone. You don't want to open some kind of worm hole and unleash a Kraken.

PsychoKnight
12-02-2012, 14:31
My LNL Measure came with a baffle, I bought a used on that did not have one and after a quick call to Hornady they sent me one for free :)

Good to know. I'll give them a call. But then, I've become so attached to my little baffle . . .

More than once, when new parts have become available to fix a problem, they made me pay for it (powder drop linkage limiter, among others). I got a hassle when asking to replace brittle and broken LnL bushing o-rings (cheapest part on the whole press). They are not always generous or customer friendly. It depends on who picks up the phone on my call. I reckon a 70-80% success rate across 7 years. They could learn about customer satisfaction from Dillon and RCBS.

RustyFN
12-02-2012, 17:15
Baffles are marketed under the premise that they will provide more consistent powder drops/throws. I once intentionally ran one of my 550b powder hoppers until the last bit of powder was dropped, weighing those last drops on my very trusty 5-0-5 beam scale. Until the final partial drop, the drops all weighed the same.

While I don't recall the powder being used during that experiment (I think it was WST), I do vividly recall my astonishment with the consistency of the weight of those last drops. I had fully expected their weights to drop off.

The Dillon hopper does not need any help to maintain the 550B's reputation as a consistent powder measure.

I did the same thing with my Lee measure. It threw the same charge from a full hopper all the way down to where I ran out of powder. I haven't done that with my Dillon but am confident it will do the same.

OJ.
12-02-2012, 18:33
Good to know. I'll give them a call. But then, I've become so attached to my little baffle . . .

More than once, when new parts have become available to fix a problem, they made me pay for it (powder drop linkage limiter, among others). I got a hassle when asking to replace brittle and broken LnL bushing o-rings (cheapest part on the whole press). They are not always generous or customer friendly. It depends on who picks up the phone on my call. I reckon a 70-80% success rate across 7 years. They could learn about customer satisfaction from Dillon and RCBS.

When you are on the phone with them ask them to throw in a few die shims also; you will need them at some time when the LNL bushings get old and start backing out from vibrations. (only a few of mine do this and I have them marked)

WiskyT
12-03-2012, 15:07
I did the same thing with my Lee measure. It threw the same charge from a full hopper all the way down to where I ran out of powder. I haven't done that with my Dillon but am confident it will do the same.

That's because you were blasting Foghat with your amps turned up to 11. The vibration assured a full cavity every time.

Three-Five-Seven
12-03-2012, 16:20
The vibration assured a full cavity every time.

Wow! The stuff you learn on Glock Talk.

WiskyT
12-03-2012, 16:24
Wow! The stuff you learn on Glock Talk.

Hey, that was pretty good wasn't it?

PsychoKnight
12-03-2012, 17:42
When you are on the phone with them ask them to throw in a few die shims also; you will need them at some time when the LNL bushings get old and start backing out from vibrations. (only a few of mine do this and I have them marked)

Yup, got them shims - but only for the powder measure. The other dies stay put okay, as long as the o-ring hasn't hardened due to all the air pollution in L.A.

cajun_chooter
12-04-2012, 15:37
i put a UniqueTek powder baffle in my powder measure... and a micrometer
on the powder bar...as well at the spent primer chute... and a machined tool head on my new Dillion 650..

RustyFN
12-04-2012, 17:40
That's because you were blasting Foghat with your amps turned up to 11. The vibration assured a full cavity every time.

Wow I haven't heard them in years. I have been listening to Joe Bonamassa a lot lately on 11. The wife and I saw him last week and he was awesome.

WiskyT
12-04-2012, 17:46
Wow I haven't heard them in years. I have been listening to Joe Bonamassa a lot lately on 11. The wife and I saw him last week and he was awesome.

The rumor back in the day was that Foghat held the record for the highest sound level ever recorded at a concert. I think their drummer spontaniously combusted.