No Wonder They Are Still On Strike [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ruggles
12-01-2012, 09:56
at the Port of Los Angeles with a crappy offer like this.

"A spokesman for the shipping lines and cargo terminals against which the clerks are striking said it had offered them "absolute job security," a raise that would take average annual pay to $195,000 from $165,000, 11 weeks of paid vacation and a generous pension increase, according to the Los Angeles Times."

:rofl:

And the unions wonders why they are less and less supported by the average America day after day.

http://www.ibtimes.com/calif-port-strike-enters-day-4-cost-estimated-1bday-911362

Scott3670
12-01-2012, 10:22
Holy crap, that's a lot of bucks. Not saying that they don't work hard, but why do they get paid so damn much? And 11 weeks of paid vacation? That's just too damn much.

dherloc
12-01-2012, 10:32
Here is the copy of the contract so everyone can be jealous and complain they are making too much money. :tongueout:


http://www.ilwu63.net/uploads/2008-2014%20PCCCD.pdf

Ruggles
12-01-2012, 10:47
Here is the copy of the contract so everyone can be jealous and complain they are making too much money. :tongueout:


http://www.ilwu63.net/uploads/2008-2014%20PCCCD.pdf

Not complaining nor jealous just not sure why they are even thinking of/participating in a strike :dunno:

Things like this are why unions which once had widespread public support no longer do IMO. Biggest union town (Detroit) in America is now a economic wasteland. For many reasons I am sure but the unions are big part of that without a doubt IMO.

Dan_ntx
12-01-2012, 11:01
Never mind...enjoy the twinkles guys.

Jeff82
12-01-2012, 12:44
Hard job? They're clerks!

rhikdavis
12-01-2012, 12:49
I'm in the wrong biz.

FullClip
12-01-2012, 12:58
Hard job? They're clerks!

Hey! Have YOU ever tried to get that damn ink from all the rubber stamps they are forced to use off your fingers at the end of the day?!? :wow:

Tough work, but somebody has to do it. Bet they could be replaced with qualified people in about 1/2 an hour.:upeyes:

CAcop
12-01-2012, 13:01
Not complaining nor jealous just not sure why they are even thinking of/participating in a strike :dunno:

Things like this are why unions which once had widespread public support no longer do IMO. Biggest union town (Detroit) in America is now a economic wasteland. For many reasons I am sure but the unions are big part of that without a doubt IMO.

They are striking because they think they can. I suspect working without a contract that long has disgruntled a few.

As far as Detroit, there are other issues at play too. Crime and white flight to the suburbs are at the top of the list.

It sounds like the days are numbered for those workers anyway, union or not.

Ruggles
12-01-2012, 13:04
Hey! Have YOU ever tried to get that damn ink from all the rubber stamps they are forced to use off your fingers at the end of the day?!? :wow:

Tough work, but somebody has to do it. Bet they could be replaced with qualified people in about 1/2 an hour.:upeyes:

With 11 weeks of vacation there must be a lot of people cross trained :0

CAcop
12-01-2012, 13:23
With 11 weeks of vacation there must be a lot of people cross trained :0

I didn't read the contract. Did it mention if there was sick and/or holiday time in addition to vacation.

I ask because some police departments around here just have time off and it is to be used for everything. Sick? Vacation day. Dentist? Vacation. Taking Christmas off? Vacation. Also is it use it or loose it? Or do they bank it? Cash out at the end of the year?

Also they refer to days. What are their schedules? We work a 4/10 and we get an 8 hour day of sick time because every other city employee gets.

podwich
12-01-2012, 14:48
I didn't read the contract. Did it mention if there was sick and/or holiday time in addition to vacation.

I ask because some police departments around here just have time off and it is to be used for everything. Sick? Vacation day. Dentist? Vacation. Taking Christmas off? Vacation. Also is it use it or loose it? Or do they bank it? Cash out at the end of the year?

Also they refer to days. What are their schedules? We work a 4/10 and we get an 8 hour day of sick time because every other city employee gets.

11 weeks? Even if that includes sick time, how often do you become ill?

cgwahl
12-01-2012, 15:07
I didn't read the contract. Did it mention if there was sick and/or holiday time in addition to vacation.

I ask because some police departments around here just have time off and it is to be used for everything. Sick? Vacation day. Dentist? Vacation. Taking Christmas off? Vacation. Also is it use it or loose it? Or do they bank it? Cash out at the end of the year?

Also they refer to days. What are their schedules? We work a 4/10 and we get an 8 hour day of sick time because every other city employee gets.



I haven't read the contract, but heard a guy on the radio talk about it. He is on the management side so it's up to you if you want to believe what he says.


http://downloads.iheartradio.com/media/station_content/616/JK1130123P_1354329390_3475.mp3
2:45 to 10:30 is where a lawyer on the management side talks about the benefit package.

If everything he says is true, their package is beyond awesome.

TK-421
12-01-2012, 15:50
Damn, $195k, 11 weeks of paid vacation, and a generous pension increase? And they turned it down? Why do they still have jobs to go back to after the strike is over? I bet there are plenty of people will to do the job for a lot less than that.

Slug71
12-01-2012, 15:53
Damn, $195k, 11 weeks of paid vacation, and a generous pension increase? And they turned it down? Why do they still have jobs to go back to after the strike is over? I bet there are plenty of people will to do the job for a lot less than that.

This.
Holy crap.

I'd be more than happy with $50k and 4 weeks paid vacation.

czsmithGT
12-01-2012, 16:01
11 weeks? Even if that includes sick time, how often do you become ill?

I skimmed the contract but I didn't see that. It may be buried in the 200 pages of language. I did see these:

1.251 Clerk. An employee responsible for performing
any or all of the following clerical functions related to receiving, delivering, checking, tallying, yard and/or cargo area inventorying (including containers), sorting, spotting and inspecting cargo and/or containers for the purpose of taking and recording exceptions, including the recording of necessary notations and the keeping of such records as may be required by the individual employer.

4.11 The basic straight time hourly rate of pay for clerks
shall be as follows:
Effective 8:00 a.m., June 28, 2008 $31.18
Effective 8:00 a.m., July 4, 2009 $31.68
Effective 8:00 a.m., July 3, 2010 $32.68
Effective 8:00 a.m., July 2, 2011 $33.68
Effective 8:00 a.m., June 30, 2012 $34.68
Effective 8:00 a.m., June 29, 2013 $35.68

5.1 The following holidays shall be recognized: New Year’s
Day, Martin Luther King’s Birthday, Lincoln’s Birthday, Washington’s Birthday, Cesar Chavez’ Birthday, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Bloody Thursday, Harry Bridges’ Birthday,
Labor Day, Veterans’ Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Eve
Day, Christmas Day, and New Year’s Eve Day.

Ruggles
12-01-2012, 16:24
They should take the contract, sit down, shut up and thank the Lord for their blessing in life. Anything beyond that and they deserve a swift kick in the jewels :)

Hef
12-01-2012, 16:38
There is no clerical job that is worth $195,000 per year and 11 weeks vacation. Anyone who even asks for $100,000/yr or more for a forking clerical job should be pushed out the door by a boot to the spine.

Ruggles
12-01-2012, 16:42
I skimmed the contract but I didn't see that. It may be buried in the 200 pages of language. I did see these:

1.251 Clerk. An employee responsible for performing
any or all of the following clerical functions related to receiving, delivering, checking, tallying, yard and/or cargo area inventorying (including containers), sorting, spotting and inspecting cargo and/or containers for the purpose of taking and recording exceptions, including the recording of necessary notations and the keeping of such records as may be required by the individual employer.

4.11 The basic straight time hourly rate of pay for clerks
shall be as follows:
Effective 8:00 a.m., June 28, 2008 $31.18
Effective 8:00 a.m., July 4, 2009 $31.68
Effective 8:00 a.m., July 3, 2010 $32.68
Effective 8:00 a.m., July 2, 2011 $33.68
Effective 8:00 a.m., June 30, 2012 $34.68
Effective 8:00 a.m., June 29, 2013 $35.68

5.1 The following holidays shall be recognized: New Year’s
Day, Martin Luther King’s Birthday, Lincoln’s Birthday, Washington’s Birthday, Cesar Chavez’ Birthday, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Bloody Thursday, Harry Bridges’ Birthday,
Labor Day, Veterans’ Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Eve
Day, Christmas Day, and New Year’s Eve Day.

Those are some "laborish" holidays :rofl:

czsmithGT
12-01-2012, 16:46
Those are some "laborish" holidays :rofl:

Yep. Harry Bridges was a Communist. Go figure LOL

vikingsoftpaw
12-01-2012, 17:30
There is no clerical job that is worth $195,000 per year and 11 weeks vacation. Anyone who even asks for $100,000/yr or more for a forking clerical job should be pushed out the door by a boot to the spine.

The reason why they and the others in the Longshoreman's Union in CA ports is because they more pretty much move everything we buy and make through it.

Look for things to change though. Shipping companies don't like being pulled around by their short curly hairs. So much so that ConAgra built a fully automated terminal for grain shipments, minimizing the number of featherbeded positions.

Watch for shipment to be sent to the Pacific Northwest ports and to Mexico in the future.

engineer151515
12-01-2012, 17:35
HOSTESS 2 - the sequel.

Unions, like government, will soon learn the limits of economic reality have been met and exceeded.

What you see here are the little bubbles that form at the bottom of a pot about to bust into a full boil.

janice6
12-01-2012, 17:40
That would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

Supply and demand is not the same a force and intimidation.

Geeorge
12-01-2012, 18:08
Obama could step in and do what Reagan did with the air traffic controlers.

packinaglock
12-01-2012, 18:28
Knowing that most of the union people vote for the Kenyan brings some joy when they fold.

syntaxerrorsix
12-01-2012, 18:40
Unions made Chicago the city it is today.

More of the same.

If I could really collectively bargain me and ten of my friends would move there now and do it for 10% less than what the Unions are fighting for.

PM me if you want on board... idiots.

Hef
12-01-2012, 19:21
Unions made Chicago the city it is today.

More of the same.

If I could really collectively bargain me and ten of my friends would move there now and do it for 10% less than what the Unions are fighting for.

PM me if you want on board... idiots.

Did you just call us all idiots?

















:D

Ruggles
12-01-2012, 19:25
The reason why they and the others in the Longshoreman's Union in CA ports is because they more pretty much move everything we buy and make through it.

Look for things to change though. Shipping companies don't like being pulled around by their short curly hairs. So much so that ConAgra built a fully automated terminal for grain shipments, minimizing the number of featherbeded positions.

Watch for shipment to be sent to the Pacific Northwest ports and to Mexico in the future.

Bring em to Texas, the ports here able, willing and able :wavey:

sappy13
12-01-2012, 20:16
i just dont see how any clerk can be worth 165k, let alone 195. That pay and vacation time is just absurd.

CAcop
12-01-2012, 21:29
5.1 The following holidays shall be recognized: New Year’s
Day, Martin Luther King’s Birthday, Lincoln’s Birthday, Washington’s Birthday, Cesar Chavez’ Birthday, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Bloody Thursday, Harry Bridges’ Birthday,
Labor Day, Veterans’ Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Eve
Day, Christmas Day, and New Year’s Eve Day.

I had to look up the ones in bold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Bridges

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1934_West_Coast_waterfront_strike

CAcop
12-01-2012, 21:30
Bring em to Texas, the ports here able, willing and able :wavey:

You are not as close to China.

CAcop
12-01-2012, 21:42
The reason why they and the others in the Longshoreman's Union in CA ports is because they more pretty much move everything we buy and make through it.

Look for things to change though. Shipping companies don't like being pulled around by their short curly hairs. So much so that ConAgra built a fully automated terminal for grain shipments, minimizing the number of featherbeded positions.

Watch for shipment to be sent to the Pacific Northwest ports and to Mexico in the future.

I have been hearing for decades that a lot of shipping has been moving to Seattle since it is closer to Japan and China by something like 12 to 24 hours.

Big problem is that LA county alone is 13 million people. Another is that trucking stuff to CA from WA is going to eat up some of those hours saved. 38 million is a big market.

Also OWS shuts down Oakland's Port all the time.

CAcop
12-01-2012, 21:44
Obama could step in and do what Reagan did with the air traffic controlers.

They are not federal employees. He can invoke Taft-Hartley.

dino1
12-01-2012, 22:38
Well why don't you a holes just try to live on 165K for a while!!

czsmithGT
12-01-2012, 22:40
They are not federal employees. He can invoke Taft-Hartley.

The day Obama invokes Taft-Hartley we will all be bombarded with flying pigs.

JBG30
12-01-2012, 23:25
5.1 The following holidays shall be recognized: New Year’s
Day, Martin Luther King’s Birthday, Lincoln’s Birthday, Washington’s Birthday, Cesar Chavez’ Birthday, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Bloody Thursday, Harry Bridges’ Birthday,
Labor Day, Veterans’ Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Eve
Day, Christmas Day, and New Year’s Eve Day.

5.2
Martin Luther King’s Birthday, 3rd Monday in January—
Normal work day.

Lincoln’s Birthday, February 12—Normal work day.

Washington’s Birthday, 3rd Monday in February—Normal work day.

Cesar Chavez’ Birthday, March 31— Normal work day.

Memorial Day, last Monday in May—Normal work day.

Independence Day, July 4—Normal work day.

Harry Bridges’ Birthday, July 28—Normal work day.

Veterans’ Day, November 11—Normal work day.

Based on their wage schedule, I find it hard to believe that the average salary is 165,000 and I wouldn't want to live in L.A. making their base wage.

CAcop
12-02-2012, 06:35
Based on their wage schedule, I find it hard to believe that the average salary is 165,000 and I wouldn't want to live in L.A. making their base wage.

Their hourly rate was too low to get them that high. They must be doing a lot of OT. Maybe if they do OT on those holidays they get double time.

czsmithGT
12-02-2012, 10:16
Their hourly rate was too low to get them that high. They must be doing a lot of OT. Maybe if they do OT on those holidays they get double time.

Looks to me like they get 1.8 X hourly rate for overtime and 1.6 X hourly rate if they work 3rd shift. A 25 year person would get 6 weeks a year vacation + 11 Paid holidays. If they work the holidays which are "normal work days" on 3rd shift they would get 2.6 X hourly rate for those days.

If these are correct, which I got from skimming the relevant sections of the contract, my rough back of the envelop calc says a 25 year supervisory clerk who only worked the 3rd shift and worked one day a week OT could make almost 160 K$ per year. There are some other things in there like travel pay and reimbursement for meals and lodging if they are assigned to a port out of their area but I don't know how applicable that is.

Glocksanity
12-02-2012, 12:23
Damn, $195k, 11 weeks of paid vacation, and a generous pension increase? And they turned it down? Why do they still have jobs to go back to after the strike is over? I bet there are plenty of people will to do the job for a lot less than that.

The total compensation package has a value of $195/year. That is not just salary, but includes pension and health contributions, sick pay, vacations, etc...

What is hanging up the deal is that the workers union wants to dictate how management should staff when the workers call in sick. The union wants to tell management how to run their office. Just ridiculous.

What is more ridiculous is that the longshoreman union is honoring the picket line.

googanelli
12-02-2012, 17:52
I work where the oldest union in the land is still around, the railroad. First, anything management says, full of ****. Same with the unions. They are all politicians trying to present a public opinion case. I have been on the railroad for almost 15 years and this will be my biggest pay year ever. With that being said, I am literally on call 24\7. I have to argue taking a day off sick with an emergency room note. Period. Two of those in a 56 day period, I will be in for a formal hearing about my employment. Make a minor rule infraction that is not life threatening and you shall receive the same. I have a great retirement and good benefits.

Here's what people don't know, the company and the unions LIKE the fight. It gives and entire department something to do at their work. I don't believe in striking for many things. Safety is one thing I DO believe it. We still fall under the federal employee liability act. Yeah, they say our numbers are getting better interms of injuries. Bull. They hide injuries. Bully employees. Ever heard the term being railroaded?

I think there is a time and place for unions. They still have relevence in many areas of the market. My issue is their hands are tied now. They take money and do most of the time nothing. The government has tied their hands too. Ever had to argue about having a clean bathroom on a locomotive that is full of disease and nastiness? I have. THe government wouldn't help and we couldn't go on strike. Yeah, I make good money. I've also been splashed in the bootyhole with blue juice. Visualize that. I also know two people who have been disabled because of being splashed in the mouth or on their privates. They wanted to stop their trains to go and were threatened.


I love my job, that's why I am still there. But I Do believe in unions. Check out www.csx-sucks.com (http://www.csx-sucks.com) to see what happens around just my job.

Joe