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emt1581
12-01-2012, 19:15
Anyone have consistently bad experiences with any particular brand(s) of AR's?

The reason I ask is because I've seen some brands, that are basically of identical composition, fetch MUCH higher prices than others.

I also notice that, among new gun/AR owners, the first thing they are concerned with are brands. If it isn't a Colt, they don't want it.

Personally, I have about a half-dozen different brands. Recently I built up a ShARps lower and an RGuns upper. I put a Gen2 MBUS on it and a military sling and after taking it to the range I am really impressed with it.

No rails on the forend, no fancy flash-hider just the standard birdcage, the stock is a no-name telescopic and it has a CMMG LPK. Shoots just as well as Bushmaster, Colt, Del-Ton, etc...

I love it so much I am almost done with an identical second build. I have a bunch of lowers left but I'm not sure what those will be.

Now for the purpose of this thread I'm not attempting to get on an RGuns soap box. And I'm not looking to debate the aftermarket accessories like optics/stocks/etc. I'm just curious how important you have found brand names to be when looking for an AR?

Thanks

-Emt1581

NEOH212
12-01-2012, 19:18
As long as it's a quality build put together by competent people with quality parts, brand isn't a issue.


The only brand I've had issues with personally was DPMS. Others have had good luck with them. I can only speak of the experience I've had with them and it wasn't good.

All others I've had weren't too bad. Minor issues here and there but nothing major.

63bmechanic
12-01-2012, 19:24
make sure it has proper staking where its important, no match grade crap installed, chrome lined barrel and a 5.56 feed ramp and you'll have a good rifle.

HKUSP9SD
12-01-2012, 19:26
Well I have shot quite a few AR15 models but the most difference I notice is weight and accessories. I know there is a lot of differences in quality of parts used and made in putting these rifles together, but none i have directly noticed.

I feel like its really what you want in a rifle. Brands are not a big deal in my book as long as they have a lifetime warranty lol. That said, my first AR was a CMMG upper on a Plum Crazy lower. I added a few things but my basic idea was to make it a light weight M4 type rifle. I would much rather have a DDM4, but for my first AR15 this is just fine.

And for the record so no one kills me via internet, I would love to have a higher end AR15 because they are built way better than I would know lol. Being in my position though, an off brand AR15 is not a deal breaker for me.

TxGun
12-01-2012, 19:28
Lowers aren't particularly critical...plenty of good ones available. Barrels and BCGs are where the differences lie. Check the barrel specs carefully to make sure it's spec'ed out properly and get a top shelf BCG and your AR will typically be as good as anyone else's. You can assign these criteria to DIY builds and/or to factory complete guns.

Warp
12-01-2012, 19:28
Go poke your head into the Black Rifles forum. Look around. Search.

Go over to www.m4carbine.net. Look around. Search.

Get back to us in a few days.

There is a significant difference in quality between various manufacturers of M4 pattern rifles.

Oh, and you couldn't pay me to have a DPMS.

NEOH212
12-01-2012, 19:29
make sure it has proper staking where its important, no match grade crap installed, chrome lined barrel and a 5.56 feed ramp and you'll have a good rifle.

I agree with everything but he necessity of the M4 ramps. I've had rifles with them and without and haven't seen ANY difference in reliability.

Maybe in a really short barreled gun (like a Mk18) or a select fire gun it would be a benefit. I don't really feel they are a necessity but they can't hurt anything either.

The lack of M4 ramps, amongst other things aren't anything I'd sweat over or let prevent me from purchasing a 16" or longer semi-auto AR.

emt1581
12-01-2012, 19:30
Well I have shot quite a few AR15 models but the most difference I notice is weight and accessories. I know there is a lot of differences in quality of parts used and made in putting these rifles together, but none i have directly noticed.

I feel like its really what you want in a rifle. Brands are not a big deal in my book as long as they have a lifetime warranty lol. That said, my first AR was a CMMG upper on a Plum Crazy lower. I added a few things but my basic idea was to make it a light weight M4 type rifle. I would much rather have a DDM4, but for my first AR15 this is just fine.

And for the record so no one kills me via internet, I would love to have a higher end AR15 because they are built way better than I would know lol. Being in my position though, an off brand AR15 is not a deal breaker for me.

That Plum Crazy lower....how'd you like it? Something about a plastic lower just doesn't sit well with me but again that may be my own prejudice coming out.

Thanks for sharing! :)

-Emt1581

63bmechanic
12-01-2012, 19:31
I agree with everything but he necessity of the M4 ramps. I've had rifles with them and without and haven't seen ANY difference in reliability.

Maybe in a really short barreled gun (like a Mk18) or a select fire gun it would be a benefit. I don't really feel they are a necessity but they can't hurt anything either.

The lack of M4 ramps, amongst other things aren't anything I'd sweat over or let prevent me from purchasing a 16" or longer semi-auto AR.

the difference is really only shown when doing high intensity shooting courses really.

NEOH212
12-01-2012, 19:35
the difference is really only shown when doing high intensity shooting courses really.

I've ran through many of those type of courses. I've done so with rifles that had and didn't have the M4 ramps and have experienced ZERO difference in reliability.

Either they are a trivial item or I'm really damn lucky!

:supergrin:

Warp
12-01-2012, 19:37
RE: M4 feedramps.

I found this somewhere:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/feedramps2-6_zpsb2c2a663.jpg

63bmechanic
12-01-2012, 19:38
I've ran through many of those type of courses. I've done so with rifles that had and didn't have the M4 ramps and have experienced ZERO difference in reliability.

Either they are a trivial item or I'm really damn lucky!

:supergrin:

sounds good, iv had the non mil-spec feed ramps cause issues after sustained fire. had one lock the bolt in battery that was fun


lol warp, something were actually agreeing on? lol

HKUSP9SD
12-01-2012, 19:47
That Plum Crazy lower....how'd you like it? Something about a plastic lower just doesn't sit well with me but again that may be my own prejudice coming out.

Thanks for sharing! :)

-Emt1581

Dude I have not had any problems with the 1500 plus rounds I have put through it. I heard of so many OMG its plastic bad mouthing, but the bullet doesn't go bang in the lower so I dont worry about it.

Only thing I know is its obviously not as durable as aluminum. Some guy broke a lower at the buffer by slamming the stock down to clear a round that jammed.

I also have seen fully auto run out of these and its not a problem for the couple thousand rounds I have seen lol.

WoodenPlank
12-01-2012, 19:53
Dude I have not had any problems with the 1500 plus rounds I have put through it. I heard of so many OMG its plastic bad mouthing, but the bullet doesn't go bang in the lower so I dont worry about it.

Only thing I know is its obviously not as durable as aluminum. Some guy broke a lower at the buffer by slamming the stock down to clear a round that jammed.

I also have seen fully auto run out of these and its not a problem for the couple thousand rounds I have seen lol.

This is exactly why I don't suggest polymer lowers for ARs. The threads on the back end just won't hold up as well to mortaring the weapon to clear a malfunction.

HKUSP9SD
12-01-2012, 19:57
This is exactly why I don't suggest polymer lowers for ARs. The threads on the back end just won't hold up as well to mortaring the weapon to clear a malfunction.

Very true man. I have friends in the ARMY who told me about this because i didnt understand why you smack a gun down to clear a jam lol.

That being said, im not going to be in a crazy war zone or situation where im really relying on my AR15. So polymer isnt a huge concern. Worst comes to worse I always have a sidearm though lol.

Warp
12-01-2012, 19:58
Very true man. I have friends in the ARMY who told me about this because i didnt understand why you smack a gun down to clear a jam lol.

That being said, im not going to be in a crazy war zone or situation where im really relying on my AR15. So polymer isnt a huge concern. Worst comes to worse I always have a sidearm though lol.

The quality of your rifle isn't important if you don't care about it malfunctioning...that is true.

HKUSP9SD
12-01-2012, 20:02
The quality of your rifle isn't important if you don't care about it malfunctioning...that is true.

It hasn't malfunctioned. Ever. Thats the point. If it ever jams though, I won't have to resort to slamming the stock down being a range/HD weapon.

Thanks for the input though. I always like when the "Elite" chime in.

WoodenPlank
12-01-2012, 20:02
Very true man. I have friends in the ARMY who told me about this because i didnt understand why you smack a gun down to clear a jam lol.

That being said, im not going to be in a crazy war zone or situation where im really relying on my AR15. So polymer isnt a huge concern. Worst comes to worse I always have a sidearm though lol.

I've had to do it on a range to clear a stuck casing caused by a case mouth failure.

As for the OP's question, I agree with the earlier comment that barrel and BCG quality are the two top factors. Both are easy to screw up, though. Some companies are hit and miss, while some rarely let a bad one slip.

It's entirely possibly to have a DPMS that will out-shoot a Larue, or a BCM that is a total lemon. Both of these are very rare in my experience, though.

FLIPPER 348
12-01-2012, 22:02
The quality of your rifle isn't important if you don't care about it malfunctioning...that is true.



....says a guy who WAY overpays for ARs

Warp
12-01-2012, 22:16
....says a guy who WAY overpays for ARs

Negative Ghostrider

63bmechanic
12-01-2012, 22:18
....says a guy who WAY overpays for ARs

when it comes to an AR, depending on what your getting, i dont think you can really "over pay" on one, something like a rec-7 is worth the money it costs while some your just paying for the name on it.

FLIPPER 348
12-01-2012, 22:18
AR folk are funny

Warp
12-01-2012, 22:21
when it comes to an AR, depending on what your getting, i dont think you can really "over pay" on one, something like a rec-7 is worth the money it costs while some your just paying for the name on it.

My AR is a Colt 6920.

Apparently he thinks that buying a Colt is WAY overpaying. :dunno:

crazymoose
12-02-2012, 10:17
For most people's uses, most of the "commercial grade" AR's will do just fine. Someone who shoots a few hundred rounds a year will be fine for years of shooting with a DPMS or Bushmaster. Few people have a heavy enough firing schedule for the differences to become apparent.

However, for someone who does a lot of three-gun shooting, who takes a lot of training classes, etc., shelling out the couple hundred extra will pay dividends. If you take 10 DPMS/Bushmaster/etc. rifles and 10 Colt/BCM/LMT/etc. rifles and proceed to put 15,000 rounds through them in relatively short order, I guarantee you the first group will have more issues than the second group. As the round count gets higher, you start to see quality differences coming into play. Things like bolt construction/testing affect lug failure rates. Gas ports that are already oversized on many commercial guns (to provide better function with weaker ammo like Wolf) will erode much more quickly, leading to overgassing issues.

This isn't brand snobbery. I'm not knocking the cheaper guns. They will do the job for 95% of AR shooters. But at the same time, it's foolhardy to play the "mine is just as good as brand x" game, even though the quality differences will never be an issue for most people.

emt1581
12-02-2012, 11:12
For most people's uses, most of the "commercial grade" AR's will do just fine. Someone who shoots a few hundred rounds a year will be fine for years of shooting with a DPMS or Bushmaster. Few people have a heavy enough firing schedule for the differences to become apparent.

However, for someone who does a lot of three-gun shooting, who takes a lot of training classes, etc., shelling out the couple hundred extra will pay dividends. If you take 10 DPMS/Bushmaster/etc. rifles and 10 Colt/BCM/LMT/etc. rifles and proceed to put 15,000 rounds through them in relatively short order, I guarantee you the first group will have more issues than the second group. As the round count gets higher, you start to see quality differences coming into play. Things like bolt construction/testing affect lug failure rates. Gas ports that are already oversized on many commercial guns (to provide better function with weaker ammo like Wolf) will erode much more quickly, leading to overgassing issues.

This isn't brand snobbery. I'm not knocking the cheaper guns. They will do the job for 95% of AR shooters. But at the same time, it's foolhardy to play the "mine is just as good as brand x" game, even though the quality differences will never be an issue for most people.

I do see what you're saying and certainly it makes sense. I wonder if anyone has put things to the test and recorded such data though? I know you kept mentioning "commercial"...did you just mean brand name or were you talking about the commercial vs. mil-spec?? Mine are all mil-spec.

Thanks

-Emt1581

Darkangel1846
12-02-2012, 11:48
There isn't any one brand that doesn't have someone *****ing about it. I've had Oly, bushmaster, colt, STS, sig and never had a major problem with any of them. Small things like sights, not as accurate as I wanted, some were finiky about ammo, the stock is to short, to long, to fat,to thin....the grip is to fat ECT! You name it I've heard the complaint after years on the net and in gun shops.

carloglock19
12-02-2012, 14:35
RE: M4 feedramps.

I found this somewhere:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/feedramps2-6_zpsb2c2a663.jpg

My M&P MOE looks like the second picture. I guess I'm good when it comes to feedramps.

CBennett
12-02-2012, 15:20
Get a decent brand..id not go with the cheapies but then again i have no need for top end either. I know I dont do a lot of combat like say youd see someplace like North Dallas for instance which from the forums ive learned sees some HEAVY combat and you can only use top end "Mill Spec" type stuff..but lets face it for most of us who are not about to see as heavy combat as youd see in North Dallas... something like say the M&P Sport would do well...obviously not up to north Dallas standards but for 99% of us non combat zone types something like that would be 100% FINE.

PBR Sailor
12-02-2012, 16:25
:shakehead: You are going to hear a lot of brand bashing.

Cole125
12-02-2012, 17:02
The barrel and bolt are the two most important parts of a AR and if those are made quality and to spec, than brand name does NOT matter, period.

Warp
12-02-2012, 17:04
The barrel and bolt are the two most important parts of a AR and if those are made quality and to spec, than brand name does NOT matter, period.

So failures to fire due to light primer strikes because the hammer spring isn't up to snuff...those failures don't matter?

Cole125
12-02-2012, 17:16
So failures to fire due to light primer strikes because the hammer spring isn't up to snuff...those failures don't matter?

All parts of a AR are important but like I said the bolt and barrel are the most critical.

Yes, you need quality springs too.

emt1581
12-02-2012, 17:29
Get a decent brand..id not go with the cheapies but then again i have no need for top end either. I know I dont do a lot of combat like say youd see someplace like North Dallas for instance which from the forums ive learned sees some HEAVY combat and you can only use top end "Mill Spec" type stuff..but lets face it for most of us who are not about to see as heavy combat as youd see in North Dallas... something like say the M&P Sport would do well...obviously not up to north Dallas standards but for 99% of us non combat zone types something like that would be 100% FINE.

I'm not sure what you're referring to with all the North Dallas references... :dunno:

I'd like to think if the cartels made it that far the locals would come together and send them packing.

-Emt1581

63bmechanic
12-02-2012, 17:38
My AR is a Colt 6920.

Apparently he thinks that buying a Colt is WAY overpaying. :dunno:

if thats over priced why does my wally world have 4 in the carousel?

WoodenPlank
12-02-2012, 17:50
So failures to fire due to light primer strikes because the hammer spring isn't up to snuff...those failures don't matter?

Or an improperly torqued and secured castle nut, improperly torqued and staked gas key bolts, untested bolt lug that has a weak point when it leaves the factory, over-bored gas port...


No, paying a little extra for an AR doesn't make a bit of difference. :upeyes:

CBennett
12-02-2012, 20:32
I'm not sure what you're referring to with all the North Dallas references... :dunno:

I'd like to think if the cartels made it that far the locals would come together and send them packing.

-Emt1581

another AR thread where some "expert" chimed in gave their thoughts then when the OP of that thread made a choice that was not the choice he would have made bashed him for not doing exactly what he said lol...it was a win/win situation as the guy was picking from 2 good guns. So now its a running "inside joke" with AR threads

KalashniKEV
12-02-2012, 20:36
The reason I ask is because I've seen some brands, that are basically of identical composition, fetch MUCH higher prices than others.

:faint:

Son, is you a dummy?

*ASH*
12-02-2012, 22:21
well i went with a Daniel defense , its first AR , and im happy , :supergrin::supergrin:

JPhillis
12-02-2012, 22:27
My AR is a YHM Diamond Spector XL and it has worked flawlessly. I dont think you can even hardly find a complete YHM rifle now. They are backed up months on keeping distributers supplied with upgrade parts..

http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_23_35&products_id=158

G31
12-02-2012, 23:57
The problem with these discussions is that almost no one can put their money where their mouth is, and prove a lot of the theory often spouted out. Can one prove a commercial buffer tube is inferior to a milspec one for the application? Can one prove that a 4140 barrel is inferior for longevity than CMV of 4150 over the lifespan of any semi-auto rifle? Can someone show that an 8620 steel bolt is less durable than a C158 for the application?

I really don't think a lot of people can effectively rationalize solutions to these perceived dilemmas, or most of the AR threads would take a different course. I think most people are ignorant to facts, and just assume something is the best because they were told so. I don't think people take the time to figure out whether the extra strength or difference in construction is actually necessary for the application.

As for brand name, I put some stock in it, but not to the point some others do, and drag down anything without the Colt name on it. There seem to be various levels of QC coming from the different builders. Some "commercial" builders put out products every bit as good as any milspec gun. All builders put out junk from time-to-time, even Colt.

For anyone to say that only their favorite brand is good and reliable shows the rest of us their ignorance.

Warp
12-03-2012, 00:03
Can one prove a commercial buffer tube is inferior to a milspec one for the application?

Read here:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=98675


Can one prove that a 4140 barrel is inferior for longevity than CMV of 4150 over the lifespan of any semi-auto rifle? Can someone show that an 8620 steel bolt is less durable than a C158 for the application?

I'll have to get back to you on the source for that, but yes Carpenter 158 is better. Will you notice? Maybe not. But it is.


I think most people are ignorant to facts, and just assume something is the best because they were told so.

I see people ignoring the facts, and looking for any reason they can to convince themselves that what they got is "Just as good as"



There seem to be various levels of QC coming from the different builders.

Yes.



For anyone to say that only their favorite brand is good and reliable shows the rest of us their ignorance.

I don't think I have ever, once, in the history of my time on the world wide web, heard even one single person say that only one brand is good and reliable.

I do, however, see a lot of people building up that straw man

G31
12-03-2012, 00:47
No, that link only shows what has been said over and over...7075 is stronger than 6061. Big deal. It doesn't show any detriment to a commercial tube as used on an AR. Same with the Carpenter 158 steel. You can use a blade made of stamped steel to cut a steak just as well as one made from tungsten. See the point?

In regard to this statement, please elaborate: I see people ignoring the facts, and looking for any reason they can to convince themselves that what they got is "Just as good as" . What qualifies you to make such a claim? Are you in the industry? Do you have access to data that backs this up?

PBR Sailor
12-03-2012, 10:53
I believe that before you ask does the brand of AR matter, you should ask yourself some other questions.

1) What are my accuracy expectations?
2) How many rounds per year will I fire? How many rounds on a given day?
3) Will my rifle be a select fire rifle or semi-automatic?
4) Will my rifle be a defensive rifle or strickly for shooting paper?
5) How much am I willing to spend?
6) What is my maintenance skill level and will I have to have worn parts periodically replaced by someone else or can I do it myself?
7) At what intervals am I willing to spend the money to replace a barrel, bolt or fire control group? 10,000 rounds? 20,000 rounds? 30,000 rounds?

If you ask yourself these questions and answer them honestly that will give you a better idea of which rifle you should purchase and how much you should expect to spend. If you are going to shoot 1,000 to 2,000 rounds per year, you have a lot of options. If you are going to shoot 10,000 to 20,000 rounds per year, you will have fewer options when choosing an AR.

ArmoryDoc
12-03-2012, 11:54
Go poke your head into the Black Rifles forum. Look around. Search.

Go over to www.m4carbine.net. Look around. Search.

Get back to us in a few days.

There is a significant difference in quality between various manufacturers of M4 pattern rifles.

Oh, and you couldn't pay me to have a DPMS.

THIS. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :wavey:

byf43
12-03-2012, 12:33
The "Brand" of the rifle is not what's important, to me.

"Track record" and whether the rifle is 100% in function is what matters to me, first.
Accuracy is second.


I currently own to AR platform rifles.
They both happen to be Colt. (Colt Sporter Match H-BAR and an AR-6721.)
Why??? I got TREMENDOUS deals on both!!!!! :supergrin::wavey:

IF I could get a good deal on a S&W or Stag or Daniel Defense, I might possibly buy another (or two).

Just as long as it doesn't say, "AK" anywhere in the name!:rofl:
(I don't want no Roosky rifles!)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/byf43/Gunny-AK-Ewwwwww.jpg


And no DPMS, either!

PBR Sailor
12-03-2012, 12:53
I would not use the internet as my sole source of information before purchasing a rifle. I would speak with veteran AR-15 shooters at the local gun clubs and an experienced armorer if you have one accessible in your area.

M&P15T
12-03-2012, 12:59
Everyone elses AR is crap, and very close to blowing up in their hands. This will probably will happen the next time they shoot it.

Mine, on the other hand, is the only good one on the planet. It is made from unobtanium, and is completely indestructable. It is also able to hit a gnat's butt at 3000 yards, and shoots golden b.b.s

Chuck TX
12-03-2012, 13:24
Brand name doesn't matter so much as quality to match your application, expectation, and price range.

Some makers have a different quality standard and track records than others. Some folks first person experience with various makers differ, though they tend to form a recognizable pattern. The thing is, unlike 1911's, the various rifles' price difference for the most part isn't that significant.

Only you can figure out what fits your needs.

I'm not sure what you're referring to with all the North Dallas references... :dunno:

I'd like to think if the cartels made it that far the locals would come together and send them packing.

-Emt1581

Doesn't make any sense to me either. Oak Cliff is more like South Central Dallas. :rofl:

ithaca_deerslayer
12-03-2012, 18:00
The problem with these discussions is that almost no one can put their money where their mouth is, and prove a lot of the theory often spouted out. Can one prove a commercial buffer tube is inferior to a milspec one for the application? Can one prove that a 4140 barrel is inferior for longevity than CMV of 4150 over the lifespan of any semi-auto rifle? Can someone show that an 8620 steel bolt is less durable than a C158 for the application?

I really don't think a lot of people can effectively rationalize solutions to these perceived dilemmas, or most of the AR threads would take a different course. I think most people are ignorant to facts, and just assume something is the best because they were told so. .
Correct.

But there is at least one GT guy in the black rifle sub-forum doing a good comparison of two different brands. Test is limited at the moment to 2 guns, but it is a test.

Last I checked, Colt is losing and the much cheaper S&W sport is winning. But it has only been a few rounds :)

K.Kiser
12-03-2012, 18:58
I grew up neck deep in building competition precision rifles, but bolt and single shot only (no semi-auto)... Just recently have I gained an interest in a semi-auto defense rifle... True to my nature I began searching the internet for all info that seemed credible to me to establish the option and choice for my needs and wishes..

I'm more confused now than when I started, and without acute knowledge in this corner of the industry I'm being bucked around by the winds of differing opinions.. The only thing I can settle on is I'll probably need to spend at least $800 to feel like I got a solid piece that can defend my loved ones out to a given distance along with urban defense in a less than optimal enviroment.. Oh yeah, and the perodical trip to the hog grounds for a little herd thinning...

To be honest and to offer myself up for repeated lashings, I find the Windham, Cmmg, Stag, Colt to be nice weapons and with maybe the best dollar bang going to the first 3... That may certainly be a flawed opinion if reviewed by an honest AR pro...

Due to the mixed AR emotions that extends into infinity, I'm not writing off my chances of buying a Mini 14/30 or Saiga...

PBR Sailor
12-03-2012, 19:24
I have owned several brands of AR-15s over the years. I am an armorer and do my own work. I bought them when I saw a good deal and could make some money on them. Most of them had less than 10,000 rounds fired through them when i sold them. In alphabetical order:

Armalite - I owned one of them and it was a reasonably accurate and reliable rifle.

Bushmaster - I owned 3 of them and they shot well after some work. I had to reindex the barrel on all 3 of them to center the rear sight at zero windage on a no wind day.

Colt - I owned two of them and they ran OK. They were not the most accurate AR-15s I have owned. I had a few reliability issues, but I cured them by replacing a few parts.

Delton - I just bought one out of curiousity and I am still putting it through it's paces.

DPMS - I owned one of them and it ran just fine, but it is not my first pick.

Rock River Arms - I currently own three of them and they are the most accurate of the AR-15s I have owned over the years. One of them has over 13,000 rounds through it and it is my favorite rifle.

All of them were well maintained. None of them had more than 1,000 rounds fired through them in one day.

I have seen a wide variety of AR-15s that are suitable for civilian and general LEO use and not for SOG types who have an unlimited ammuniton budget and shoot thousands of rounds per month.

My post is based on personal experience and not reading internet posts. Let the internet commandos start their scathing responses.

NEOH212
12-03-2012, 19:47
I have owned several brands of AR-15s over the years. I am an armorer and do my own work. I bought them when I saw a good deal and could make some money on them. Most of them had less than 10,000 rounds fired through them when i sold them. In alphabetical order:

Armalite - I owned one of them and it was a reasonably accurate and reliable rifle.

Bushmaster - I owned 3 of them and they shot well after some work. I had to reindex the barrel on all 3 of them to center the rear sight at zero windage on a no wind day.

Colt - I owned two of them and they ran OK. They were not the most accurate AR-15s I have owned. I had a few reliability issues, but I cured them by replacing a few parts.

Delton - I just bought one out of curiousity and I am still putting it through it's paces.

DPMS - I owned one of them and it ran just fine, but it is not my first pick.

Rock River Arms - I currently own three of them and they are the most accurate of the AR-15s I have owned over the years. One of them has over 13,000 rounds through it and it is my favorite rifle.

All of them were well maintained. None of them had more than 1,000 rounds fired through them in one day.

I have seen a wide variety of AR-15s that are suitable for civilian and general LEO use and not for SOG types who have an unlimited ammuniton budget and shoot thousands of rounds per month.

My post is based on personal experience and not reading internet posts. Let the internet commandos start their scathing responses.

Your experiences closely reflect my own. Most AR's on the market are just fine. Almost all the ones I've had needed a few things here and there. All have experienced malfunctions at some point but were easily fixed.

Most of my problems were magazine related. The only problematic AR's I've ever had were DPMS. All the problems were minor and fixable but were still problems none the less and I expected more from a rifle that was new in the box.

No brand is perfect. I also feel that some of the common supposed, "Must Have" items are trivial for most applications.

However, there are others that can't be argued with and I wouldn't own a rifle without them.

Dr. T
12-03-2012, 21:30
This is a most excellent article on the topic:

http://forums.officer.com/t81462/

Dr. T

mjkeat
12-03-2012, 22:35
As long as it's a quality build put together by competent people with quality parts, brand isn't a issue.

Everything you just said directly relates to brand.

Brand matters. Brand name is the identifier most of us use to identify quality. Some brands are consistently good, some are not.

When I look at an AR and I see RGuns, DPMS, Bushmaster, etc. it tells me the likelihood of getting a "bad one" is higher.

Warp
12-03-2012, 22:36
Everything you just said directly relates to brand.


Of course it is.

I mean, do people expect you to know if it was put together by competent people without knowing who put it together?

NEOH212
12-04-2012, 01:03
Everything you just said directly relates to brand.

Brand matters. Brand name is the identifier most of us use to identify quality. Some brands are consistently good, some are not.

When I look at an AR and I see RGuns, DPMS, Bushmaster, etc. it tells me the likelihood of getting a "bad one" is higher.

Yes and as I said, brand isn't a issue if it's put together with quality parts and put together properly.

I think we're both saying the same thing.

I do agree.

rlb72556
12-04-2012, 02:04
Just wanted to add my 2 cents: All I hear from everyone (four local gun stores, I live in the metroplex & numerous gun shows) is to stay away from the 'plastic guns'...no one ever has any specifics. Three people that I have met that actually own one have stated that they love them, having no problems at all.

mjkeat
12-04-2012, 09:59
Yes and as I said, brand isn't a issue if it's put together with quality parts and put together properly.

I think we're both saying the same thing.

I do agree.

Sounds like we are.

Unfortunately I don't have the means to visit every manufacturing plant, assembler, etc. so all I have to go off of is brand name. The brand name represents the people behind that name.

mjkeat
12-04-2012, 10:10
No, that link only shows what has been said over and over...7075 is stronger than 6061. Big deal. It doesn't show any detriment to a commercial tube as used on an AR. Same with the Carpenter 158 steel. You can use a blade made of stamped steel to cut a steak just as well as one made from tungsten. See the point?

In regard to this statement, please elaborate: . What qualifies you to make such a claim? Are you in the industry? Do you have access to data that backs this up?

Science and use proves those things. Then some DPMS quality level AR owner chimes in trying to justify their purchase as "just as good" because it hasn't had a malfunction in 100 rounds of "use" the year prior.

If people need to be honest w/ themselves. They also need to stop getting so emotionally attached to their firearms.

M&P15T
12-04-2012, 10:19
Just wanted to add my 2 cents: All I hear from everyone (four local gun stores, I live in the metroplex & numerous gun shows) is to stay away from the 'plastic guns'...no one ever has any specifics. Three people that I have met that actually own one have stated that they love them, having no problems at all.

"Plastic guns"?

What....uh....what do you think they are referring to? Do you mean plastic lowered ARs?

ken grant
12-04-2012, 10:30
Colt SP1
Colt 6920
Bushmaster A2 Carbine
Bushmaster A1 Carbine

I can't tell a dime's worth of difference in the way they shoot.

mjkeat
12-04-2012, 10:44
Colt SP1
Colt 6920
Bushmaster A2 Carbine
Bushmaster A1 Carbine

I can't tell a dime's worth of difference in the way they shoot.

Decribe the way in which you shoot these ARs.

Baba Louie
12-04-2012, 10:57
Importance of AR brand?It is pretty important to some. Such as those who trust their lives on it. To others who plink on weekend, like me, maybe not as important.

When I bought my first, there was uh COLT. Worked for me. (weekend plinker) But boy did Colt have a history with that rifle back in the day. A lot of it negative.

I've since bought another uh COLT, right after the 94-04 ban ended. I'll never run it hard. Hope I never need it to save my sorry life. But I'm sure it would do in a pinch. I've only shot Bushmasters and DPMS in way of others. They worked for our plinking needs.

Nowadays everyone and their mother-in-law make them and even Wally World sells them. Nice to have options.

I wonder what Col. Cooper would think of the poodle shooters in .308 now? :supergrin:

FireForged
12-04-2012, 11:53
delete

tampashooters
12-07-2012, 20:07
Welcome to the Black Rifle Community, where everyone's rifle is better than yours, and where everyone is a super sniper.

On a personal note.... MINE is better than yours.

GWG19
12-07-2012, 21:27
Welcome to the Black Rifle Community, where everyone's rifle is better than yours, and where everyone is a super sniper.

On a personal note.... MINE is better than yours.

Uh... No. My rifle is better and more accurate than yours. :whistling::supergrin: mine shoots micro minute of angle..:whistling:

WoodenPlank
12-07-2012, 21:42
Uh... No. My rifle is better and more accurate than yours. :whistling::supergrin: mine shoots micro minute of angle..:whistling:

You're not getting clover-leaf groups at 1,000 yards with iron sights?


Fail.









:whistling:

Gunnut 45/454
12-07-2012, 22:40
Well none of my three AR's are big name AR's. Except for my PSA the other two are muts, DPMS complete upper on a complete AT lower. The other a complete CMMG upper on a Spikes lower I built! All three run just fine thanks. No multi thousand dollar rigs here! And believe me you don't want to be on the buisness end of any of them!:supergrin: